What's most important for you in an indie game?
I am not sure I agree, I don't think I can think of a recent bigger title, that didn't have a story or at least some kind of narrative, or I am not sure what you mean. On the other hand, yes, there are a lot of indie projects with stories that are less than a sentence long.
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While its campaign had narrative, SUPERHOT would carry itself without that and being just as good (and a bit overpriced :D ) of a game it is, as it is mechanics-focused. I personally love a game with a good setting and story, lore and character to it, but not all games require it.
( You meant narrative as the whole "thing" in and around the game, that sets who you are, where, who you meet and why are you doing what you do ? )
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I don't know, I really liked the story of Superhot, but I see what you mean. I mean sure, the majority of games could be played without a narrative, one could just simply skip all the story details, cutscenes, notes and anything like that and only follow the current objective without context or understanding what that actually means.
Perhaps there should a distinction between context, which is just an overarching plot, that only gets things started and an actual narrative, with plot points and hero's journey?
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Hm, I don't think, this was what I meant.
Perhaps an example could help: I have heard of players, who played the Witcher 3 without caring about any of the characters or stories or lore, and simply enjoyed the combat and rpg elements. For them, the story or context was: "I am a monster hunder, I kill monsters for money and xp".
For many others, the Witcher 3 was a very narrative heavy experience with tough choices, that required partial understanding of the lore and almost complete understanding of the story.
I think that's different from the lore vs story issue you mentioned.
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Yeah, close enough to eachother, I think we both try to say the same, or a similar thing, just it's a bit cloudy and hard to get the point to the other :D I meant something similar, but with Witcher 3 having a very intricate system with lots of interaction and you can't just run through the game in your "main quest tunnel" it surely shows how interconnected these things can be, especially if you want to know what are you doing and what are you talking about as Geralt :)
My original idea with the story vs lore was inspired by TES games, but not one in particular - so now to properly explain it as I have more time:
TES games have fantastic lore and worldbuilding.Characters, books, quests. The books are passive ways to show you the lore and how things work, while the Daedra quests would be the best examples of actively showing you the personalities of the princes. You know, the classic "show, don't tell" type of a deal. Which is great.
And as the world is given, your character in Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim still has a main story of his own, which can be good, okay, or could be simply just bad. One could mod a new "main quest" to these games and make it tedious, boring, or just stupid, cheesy, etc, while not changing the world's lore and background.
I wanted to show this difference in my original comment, that in most games (and you had to pick TW3, where "side" quests affect main quests, you picked too good of a game to imply this usual workings to! :D ) gameplay (how you play, what you do, the mandatory part) can and should be at least checked individually from the world that is built up by stories, because some games are better in one field than in the other.
SUPERHOT's narrative was interesting, but the real deal was the gameplay.
Ori and the Blind Forest had a really nice little story to it that I loved. It would certainly lose a lot with it being cut out, but the gameplay was so tight and well done that I think that is the main attraction.
With Dark Souls (played only the first, and not on a powerhouse PC) I would say it has a very compelling gameplay (a bit jank that got improved truckloads by later games) but it's lore (anything that happened before you, the story, that you only hear about) is so incredibly intereting and cool that I lost hours on wikipedia reading after everything
Precision platformers have great gameplay with no story
Sorry for ranting for so long, I hope I don't sound as I'm arguing, I just try to get my thoughts written somehow :) . Back to my very original point regarding your poll - it's very hard to pick, and even in narrative it would be hard to tell if I would like to have a meh story in a fantastic world, or a fantastic story in a world where nothing really exists outside of my gameplay. (tbh this sounds like Half-Life. Everything is linked to gameplay, there is barely anything background lore to the game. But works well for an FPS without cutscenes as you are in the game(play) constantly) So, it's just that both things are important, and with good directing a game can get away and even be great by only focusing on one or the other, or blending them perfectly like the classics (one more parentheses, Deus Ex comes to my mind of having lot in the world, and playing a lot in that world)
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Funny, I view Ori and Blind Forest and Dark Souls very differently (to my mind, it's exactly the opposite, Ori is mostly about story and atmosphere and Dark Souls is all about combat), but I agree, that good directing is everything and focus something particular is sometimes necessairy.
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That's not necessarily true. Dust: An Elysian Tale is an indie game and it has an extremely well-written story, and gameplay is great. It's better than a lot of AAA games, that's for sure.
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I wrote my message in response to the other person's comment. Not yours. :P
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Your poll is a pretty weirdly structured one - it's hard to choose only one option and not hugely over simply things.
I'm an indie game enthusiast. I love indie games mostly because of how innovative and unconventional they are, but still, the most important part in any game I play (no matter if it's AAA or not) is the gameplay. I do play AAA titles with no innovation but great gameplay and really rarely decide to check out indie games which are really innovative but have 5/10 reviews ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I view the poll as extremes, talking about games that focus on one element in particular.
For example, non-combat exploration games like What Remains of Edith Finch and Firewatch may be examples of narrative games - in that they prioritizes narrative over gameplay - while Downwell and Devil Daggers are examples of gameplay games in that they focus on the gameplay and have no narrative.
Each game is good, with great reviews, but have different priorities and may appeal to different people (for example, I loved Firewatch but grew tired of Devil Daggers after 5 minutes).
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Gameplay, and story are most interesting to me.
Before purchasing though I look at price, although when they look good enough and get me excited enough I buy em when they come out.
(ex: AER: Memories of Old )
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I am currently at 12,956 blocked :)
There are so many different reasons to like a game depending on what type of game you want to play. I could check all the options on your poll, it just depends on what I want to play at the time. Maybe I am in the mood for a really good story or maybe a metroidvania, or an atmospheric walking simulator, it just depends. I do love indie games though, it is nice to play something different.
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sure, it just depend on perspective. even horror, sad and depressing game can be fun, although not all people define it that way (but in this case it might be called "thrilled"??). just dont make a game dissapointing and making it feells bored at the middle and not continuing at all
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I picked narrative because I have no interest in games that have no narrative, but it's hardly the only thing I'm looking for.
I looking for indie games to be interesting - be that via interesting narrative, or unique art style, or unusual experience. Where AAA games are often focus-grouped to be bland, I look for indie games to provide those unique experiences that AAA games can't.
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Really depends on the genre. I don't need an elaborate storyline to play a good beatemup. Along the same lines as others have already said, bad controls, bad camera and annoying mechanics can ruin an otherwise inventive and interesting title. I'm particular to games that make me laugh,and sometimes I can even determine that by watching the trailers.
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Yea, I think that there are many successful games I could say this about. Besides Human: Fall Flat there is Goat Simulator, Surgeon Simulator, I am Bread, Octodad: Dadliest Catch, Genital Jousting, Job Simulator and probably at least few others I couldn't remember right now.
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Thanks for the GAs...and I love playing indie games. I used to write games when I was a kid, back in the DOS days, back when shareware/freeware was a brand new concept. So, I guess I have an appreciation for the work that goes into a game, good or bad.
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I think that the indie market is making the best games overall. There are AAA exceptions, but the best games I've played in the last decade or so, are indie titles. Mostly because innovation, gameplay and fun. They took risks, they are subversive and often have great stories, style and atmosphere. You can also feel the passion and love that ooze from some of this projects
There are a lot of bad indie titles of course, but they are easily skippable.
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When i'm looking at a game's store page i usually check out any gameplay or trailer video it can offer, then the pictures. Usually looking for gameplay elements, art style and something that can make it special and catch your eye. I check a few things but mostly the atmosphere.
Gratulálok a tízezres mérföldkőhöz
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I look at the art style first.
Then what type of gameplay is it.
Then sound design.
Then price.
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Hollow Knight has great sound design. So does LIMBO. So does A Hat In Time. And Darkest Dungeon's sound design is wonderful!
I use the term sound design to mean both the musical soundtrack and the general sound effects and ambient sounds and voices (if any).
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I agree that it is rarely discussed and rarely conciously noticed. But I think it has a bigger impact than you would expect.
For instance, the UI sounds in Mass Effect were just marvelous. They helped define the different environments, the different game areas of the the game: like the galaxy map, the different rooms on the ship, etc. Just perfectly done.
I first noticed loving sound design in a scene in the old Planescape: Torment - a scene in a forge. And the ambient sounds and yells of the workers captured very well the sounds of being on a big industrial floor. I have worked in those environments, and they got it right! That was 15 years or so ago, and I have paid more attention to sound design ever since.
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As long as the gameplay is fun I'm fine with subpar narrative.
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Indie games
I quite like smaller titles, but I'm interested what you think of the genre.
Wait, how is "indie" a genre? All indie means is that the game was released independent of a publisher. I was under the impression that video game genres are meant to express the actions the game is built around, e.g. platformer, first-person shooter, puzzle, etc.
As for what's most important in a game, it's obviously the gameplay. Anyone saying story or atmosphere is more important don't really want a game; they want an interactive narrative (which really should be a separate medium from video games entirely, but "game" has become some kind of ideal that you need to fight for rather than meaning "an activity people do for fun" like it used to; saying that visual novels and walking simulators aren't games is just as degrading and insulting as saying water vapor isn't a solid object: it isn't, that's just not what the word means).
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Perhaps my wording was not the best, I was trying to say category not genre, sorry.
Interesting, because that's why I put up the poll, it seems like half the people, who voted don't think gameplay is the most important when it comes to indie games. So perhaps the definition of video games is somewhat flexible.
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perhaps the definition of video games is somewhat flexible.
sigh...yeah. Technically, all definitions for all words are flexible; words mean one thing in one generation, and as things slowly change over time, a harmless synonym for happy suddenly becomes a derogatory term for homosexuals. That kind of thing really gets on my nerves since I believe language is meant to be a tool to make communication easier, and from that perspective, "expanding definitions" only makes things confusing. If something new comes along, a new word should be invented for it (or at least a new arrangement of existing words to define what it is), but instead, it seems like new words are only invented to be synonyms, and new concepts commandeer old words and simply change their definitions.
But I digress; I'm sure you didn't start this thread for a rant like this. Anyway, I'm going to watch a 90-minute picture about gay people defiantly being cool. Did I work in enough homonyms to make my point? ☺
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I can see your point, funnily enough I've a different experience, so I can't relate that much. Since English isn't my first language, the vast majority of gaming related words are new or foreign.
But yeah, the vocabulary we have is certainly limited, when it comes to games, just a few comments above, I had quite a bit of difficulty describing the difference between story and narrative.
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Well, here we go again, another milestone reached, 10 000 games (and DLCs) filtered.
It's funny considering Steam just reached its 30k milestone just a few days ago.
The last time we did this, I asked about what you look at first on the Steam store page of a game, now it's time for something a bit more controversial:
Indie games
I quite like smaller titles, but I'm interested what you think of the genre.
What do you find most appealing in an indie game?
What do you consider before purchasing an indie game?
I tried to list a few things in the poll, if you have something different in mind the comment section is waiting!
And of course, some GAs! Look twice:)
Level 0
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...finally some public GAs:
Sith Lords
No Sith Lords
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