Just get rid of contributor values all together.
If limiting is needed, how bout letting the creator of the giveaways to go with timed giveaways (like they are now, minus contrib values) or they set a limit on entries, say like when 1,000 people enter it (and 1,000 is the limit set), it auto ends right then. Need to just have a minimum and maximum limits for creators to choose between. 10-100 for min and 2/3,000 max would be good.
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i agree with this, i had to scroll thought the bundle list to see why my CV wasn't going up. it pained me to see that some of the game that i payed for on steam where their. it really has me thinking twice before i give out any indie games. most time tho those game go to my group. and whats so wrong with giving keys any ways, you enjoyed the game but you have it, give it to some one else, not point of keeping it.
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:/
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If there was no contributor system, I wouldn't feel like I'm cheated out of something. Now, there is a system in place, so I feel like I deserve some value. Since I wouldn't receive CV and still be called out of as a leecher or a farmer, I will just give them out to friends who don't care where I got it and they'll be happy no matter what.
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Ah, I understand now. Sorry, my bad. I seem to misinterpreted "going through sg" part as "giving games at all ever" heh ^^;;
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I didn't know anything about the bundle system until someone told me about a week ago (i've been here for 2 months). I do not like the system because I agree with the guy below me. My favorite games of all time are: To the Moon - Thomas Was Alone - Analogue: A Hate Story.
Two of these games are bundle games, and TWA is highly likely to come in a bundle in the future. However, with To The Moon and Analogue: a hate story, one can avoid being marked as a bundle by buying the "collectors edition" (the game + soundtrack bundle from steam). It shouldn't have to be like this however.
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Your first point, about the FAQ being hidden, has been a thorn in my side for a long time. I have no idea why the seemingly very simple act of putting some information on the Create Giveaway page hasn't happened ages ago, and why some people even argue against it. There's a link there (under "important") to the Manage Your Giveaways page and the forum. Why not to the FAQ? And is it that hard to put some text about bundle games under the Select a Gift dropdown? The other fields have explanations, why not explain what that asterix is all about?
Regarding the last point, as I said elsewhere, high contributors often not only can afford games, but also get their high contribution value by giving away to small groups where they also win back a lot of games. Does it make sense to give more to people who already win dozens of games and also contribute very little to the site's general populace? Perhaps making only public giveaways add to the contrib value would solve this.
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What about puzzles, hidden giveaways on forum, activities and such? They are not public giveaways and such a decision would punish those that actually work closer with community than those in the public side.
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I think it's simpler to stick to just public. Hidden and puzzle giveaways are still very much a low volume activity, both in the sense that few people do them and in the sense that few people enter them. It's also true for group giveaways. Giving away in Cherry Poppers or such groups is certainly beneficial to the community. Using public giveaways is just the lesser evil, IMO.
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I agree that public giveaways are certainly the neutral point but that comes with a price. You lose certain level of intimacy with that. Once numbers grow big enough, people are no longer able to process required social interactions and everything starts to transform into mechanical execution.
For better or worse? That truly depends from who you ask it.
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Dunno if this one has been suggested, but someone could try and make a site where people can vote for what a correct value is for any of the available games here (in sg points), then the games are sorted by biggest (relative) distance from their current value and using some sort of comment system the reasons why it should be changed could be derived.
Easy overview for any mods to keep track of where changes need to be made and possibly at what date the changes are supposed to start.
And easy overview for users as to wether people are aware of certain value influences, making it so that the forum only needs 1 sticky where people can post the link to the game in question and the comment on it can tell why they did.
Hell, if they put 1 or 2 people in charge of simply processing this type of system on a daily basis by some fair rules then I think at the very least contrib values are much easier to keep (somewhat) fair.
Just something to counteract the CV leeching that is the biggest issue about it.
Reckon sales, for example, could be pointed out like that as well and cause for a (temporary) lowering in value, then people can't directly leech off of sales unless they anticipate the value being pushed upwards again later.
Hope I was clear on that one :) Sorry for any tl;dr feelings.
=== You only need the first paragraph to get the idea ===
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To start off, I'm not perfect, if you notice any flaws with the things I describe, feel free to correct me. However, don't just tell me that it's a bad idea and not say why. I want to create a discussion, not an angry mess.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM
It's hidden from new users. Nowhere on the "create a giveaway" page is there a clear explanation of what the bundle system actually is, how it affects your contributor value or what the * next to the name of the game means. If you want to find it, you have to find the FAQ, which is on the very bottom of the site (a place that may not be discovered if you're using SG+ like a lot of people) and find an explanation in a very specific question. Not only this, the FAQ is my opinion more to solve problems. It's good to read it before you do anything on the site, but it's far from necessary.
When people don't get contributor value for bundle games, even though the deserve it, they go to the forum to find an answer. This is where they get a ton of shit from the community and eventually get pointed at the thread hidden in the FAQ. At this point, they have given away a game through the site which they won't get back and have received an unhealthy portion of abuse. In my eyes, they have been cheated out of contributor value because they didn't read the little details hidden away in some thread.
The greatest offense of them all happened recently. The mods came out and said that the Humble Weekly Sale will not be added to the bundle list. Now they have changed their mind and a lot of people are losing contributor value retroactivly. I've seen someone that payed for 10$ in these sales, yet now they'll only receive 30$ contributor value. They are literally tricking people into giving away lots of weekly sales, to later rob them of their contributor value. He could have taken those 10$ and bought a bundle on amazon or bought some games on steam and received 50$ to 100$ of contributor value, yet he didn't have the choice because the system was changed after he gave the games away, and he can't get his prizes back.
The system isn't homogeneous. Bundles that are essentially 75% off are added, yet games that are on sale for 90% or 95% on amazon, steam or other places are in the clear.
If you give away a full bundle to one person (example), you get the same you payed for the bundle or even less (if you payed double the average). This is quite odd, because these bundles offer a lot of awesome games in a package, yet you get contributor value that matches what you paid for it in the best case scenario. You're punishing people for giving away awesome bundles and encouraging them to just buy the game that is on sale on steam, if they want to build up some kind of contributor value.
You discourage people to give away games. Personally, I like VVVVVV and I've thought about giving it away, but if I don't receive any contributor value for it, why should I bother going through SG? I feel cheated out of something I should get, because I payed for it, but I can't get because of the system.
There are way too many contributor giveaways. We should give away to those who can't afford games, yet we're just giving away to those who have enough money to just gift games to random people. The contributors are lovely people and should be thanked properly, but with the amount of of contributor giveaways, it feels more like you need to gift something before you can win anything, and at that point you're turning the site into steamtrades.
I could probably go on for a little while, but now some solutions.
HOW TO FIX IT
Best possible scenario? Get rid of it all. We should be happy for anything that gets gifted to the community, even bundle games. There is no clear way to give people exactly the contributor value they deserve (the price they paid) and with so many games being in bundles, a lot of awesome games are not given away just because they don't earn you more contributor value. Still want to weed out the "farmers"? I disagree with that, but you can still create giveaway groups and private giveaways to gift to those who in your eyes have contributed enough to this community.
You can also reduce the contributor value for bundle games to 1$. This means you can't "farm" insane amounts of contributor value from bundles, yet you don't get limited to 30$ if you decide to give away lots of bundles. It's an option I've seen suggested on the forum, but I think this would still create an unfair advantage from cheap bundles (indie gala, 10 games for 3$) to expensive bundles (indie royale, 4 games for 5$). I suggest there is a set percentage of the total game value you get, which varies from bundle to bundle, so that people don't buy a ton of indie galas, just because they gain more contributor value from it. How we calculate the percentage, I don't have an idea for, but feel free to suggest anything below. This idea is probably going to be shot down anyways, so I'm not going to invest time into thinking a system out to determine the percentage for now.
EDIT: Another suggestion was to work with entries on your giveaway. For example, you set 1000 entries for your giveaway, which means that you need to have 1000 entries on giveaways you created. There are a couple problems with this system (private and group giveaways get less "contributor value" and it encourages making giveaways 2 months long.
These are 3 solutions that I remember off the top of my head and I've been working on this for too long, so I'm going to stop for now. Got any other, better solutions? Write a comment and if they make sense, I'll add them to the thread.
I hope some of the mods and critics of me take some time to read this and tell me what's wrong with the suggestions, or start thinking about implementing them (okay I'm dreaming here). I hope the community and the mods can work this out, because the problems with the current system are too big not to do something about it.
If there are any spelling mistakes or sentences that don't make any sense, excuse me and feel free to correct them or ask me to clarify.
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