okay, guess i won't bother writing reviews on steam anymore -- most of my games come through bundles or other sellers like green man gaming or the humble store which count as cd key activations.
i understand why they would do this and it's probably even a good move, but it makes my reviews less likely to be seen, and i don't think they were seen much before anyway. i certainly won't complain about getting the time back.
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Simple Solution: Remove Review scores, keep reviews so there is 0 reason to fake or exploit the system.
Valve Solution™: Let's make sure we come up with the most complicated. twisted. obtuse roundabout system and then add a Filter that benefits only our sales.
All video game reviewers are given CD keys by the Publisher/Devs, suddenly their opinion is deemed less worthy because they didn't 'buy the game from Steam' That includes your Totalbiscuits, Angry Joes, RPS etc.
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Food for thought:
Most of these got curator groups, and followers there.
The few reviewers won't really influence the score anyways, nor are they really on display.
Or have you ever seen some of those names mentioned pop up in Steams review section? I certainly haven't.
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Having the review score on Steam is pretty nice. If I check out a game with a percentage of 40 or less, I'll just skip it since it's obvious that it's not that great of a game.
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The problem is that Review Score does not reflect the quality of the game at all (this is what Valve themselves have said) which is why they want to 'fix' the problem. Would you rather have arbitrary scores which have absolutely nothing to do with the game itself? Or no scores at all.
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The thing I like about the review scores on Steam is that they aren't meant to show how good a game is, it's just meant to show if it's good. A game that gets a 70 on metacritic can still get 95%+ positive on Steam because it's a fun game. I own tons of games that get metacritic scores of 75 or less but have 90%+ positive on Steam. They aren't bad games, they aren't amazing games, but they're fun. Steam is the one place where I can see if a game is fun or not without seeing arbitrary scores given by reviewers.
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I'm going to disagree with you on that, surely you didn't find fun games just from looking at the Review Scores, but instead from reading the actual reviews or watching the game screenshot/videos or something else. Steam itself is telling us that fake positive review scores is a problem, which means that 90% positive you see for a game might actually be heavily inflated. For that reason I think there is no reason for keeping them as it is.
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It's only really a problem with small indie games. I like how the scores are calculated, but the abuse of the system is definitely a problem. And what I meant by telling me that the game is fun from reviews is that even though the game isn't a 10/10, it is still fun so people recommend it. Take a look at Mad Max, for instance. 90% positive reviews on Steam but only a 73 on metacritic. That shows that the game is still enjoyable. That's what I like so much about the Steam review system.
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I don't really care about reviews... I care about the bundle-buyers.
Generally some games have very few if any reviews until a bundle... and now those are void. Will be definitely beneficial for a LOT of bad games.
But Valve don't care, as long as it gets them their illegitimate dough.
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That's a pretty valid point. There's a lot of small indie/bundle games you never even hear of before they get bundled. At best they have 1-2 Steam store reviewers, and the Review Score gets heavily biased (because key purchases will never factor for the score now)
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/436300/
Just... lol...
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Steam reviews/scores are broken anyway. The only time i'm influenced by the score is if it's negative.
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I'm not concerned, since the opinions of the average Steam user aren't all that relevant.
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Haha, check this out.
ZombieRush current - 50% of 18 reviews
ZombieRush old (8/31/16) - 92% of 258
Lands Of Devastation current - 16% of 12
Lands Of Devastation old (8/31/16) - 86% of 167
Rapid Squirrel current - 0% of 5
Rapid Squirrel old (9/4/16) - 82% of 86
Red Risk current - 47% of 107
Red Risk old (4/16/16) - 84% of 149
Edit: Totem is currently at 0% from 4 reviews. It has 32 other reviews that were posted by people that activated from keys and guess what... every single key activation gave a positive review. And 21 of those 32 reviewers have less than an hour of play time.
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while you found the scam cases
of 5
of 12
many small titles will end up with a uselessly low review count
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Red Risk current - 47% of 107
Red Risk old (4/16/16) - 84% of 149
That's not even possible. Assuming that all not counted reviews are positive, the maximum score this game could have had is 62%, not 84% [(0.47 * 107 + (149 - 107)) / 149 * 100].
Edit: ok, the page from the web archive is quite an old one, that explains.
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Yeah, I couldn't find a newer archive than that, but I guess the archives aren't even needed. I didn't realize at first that you can still calculate the total percentage from the review section. That game actually only went from 65% down to 47% because of this change.
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Didn't we all know about all of those anyway.
We definitely don't need this new system screwing over bundle-buyers to fix... wait for it... WELL KNOWN CASES.
Maybe actually handle those... but known and Valve actually doing any action (cause that's work! OMG!) is another matter apparently.
Nah, better half-ass it with the least effort possible instead.
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I'm not saying what Steam did is right, I just thought it was funny to see these ratings drop from the change.
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About the new UI, I think it's great. You could see the data and it's easy to filter it.
The Question Mark bubble beside the Purchase Type is informative, too. Good for the average Joe.
There's also the Steam and Key icon in the review to tell where the reviewer got the game from.
I like this kind of update from Valve.
- Shows what's new (New Filtering Options & Defaults),
- Tells the reasons they implemented the change and the effect of it.
- Acknowledges the issues at hand
Hopefully this could be a net positive. (I wish there's a 3-strike policy to joke / meme reviews)
Btw, two questions, Madjoki:
- Can developers...generate gifts (like they generate keys) or are they only available through purchase?
- Do reviews from people who refunds counts toward the review score?
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Not madjoki, but:
- they can't generate gifts, need to purchase the game.
- yes
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- Not really, I guess they could request 4-pack and if Valve grants it somehow use keys for 4 pack to generate gifts.
Another issues, is family share seems to count always as steam purchase.
Direct package grants (Packages added by dev by API) might too, as those are listed as complimentary instead of retail like cd-keys.
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family share seems to count always as steam purchase.
that's like like inviting for mass abuse..
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Oh great, now all my (potential) reviews don't count and are hidden by default cause I'm not willing to pay premium Valve fees.
Again a typical half-assed "solution" overshooting the target hurting tons of legit users, instead of resolving the actual issue. But very typical...
There I wanted to start reviewing all played games eventually, but now no need to bother anymore.
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Looking through some examples, seems majority is store bought. Guess I get punished for being a cheapskate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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seems majority is store bought.
which also leads to the real solution that those where it's the opposite should be checked for fraud instead
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Bundle-buyers: Obvious frauds.
I'm probably going to be banned soon... I don't have a smartphone, I buy bundles... I'm like Valve's profile for domestic Steam terrorist.
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Aha, that's an interesting idea... I assume the developers who were faking reviews will find a way to game this new system eventually, but for now it should be fun to check if any of those 500+ reviewed garbage games have any reviews showing... :)
edit... :)
Hmmm, not sure what to think, really... Many people can't afford to buy directly from Steam, but I don't know how Valve could differentiate between free keys from a dodgy developer and cheap keys from a legitimate store.
I know I've saved a lot of money buying games from greenman or humble or all the different bundle sites... Suppose if I wrote reviews I'd feel more strongly about it, but for now I'm interested to see what happens next... I bet a lot of expensive games will have fewer reviews... :)
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There are already 2 extremekly easy ways to game the new system, so all it does is punishing thousands upon thousands of fair users, while people faking reviews will continue to do so ;) For once - family sharing do not differentiate whether the game is key or store-purchase, thus you can activate key on alt account, play on main and write non-hidden fake review this way. You can also refund games, so faking reviewers buy the game, play 1h, refund and write a review.
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Interesting, that family sharing thing sounds like a bug or oversight... :) Guess Valve don't have enough scammers on the payroll to think of stuff like that... :) It will probably be fixed in a few years... :)
Ahh, I never think about refunds, when I buy something bad I figure it's my fault, and hope to remember for next time... :) Not much chance I'll actually install something quickly enough to be eligible for a refund, anyway... :)
Hmm, not sure how you'd stop fake reviews for refunded games, since there's a lot of bad games real reviewers want to warn everyone about... :(
Maybe developers could make a bunch of keys like those "Gun Monkey" people did, that create a bonus gift copy in your inventory when you activate it, but I don't know how that sort of thing works. And if Valve need to do something to make it work, even they might notice something fishy is going on... :)
Or maybe developers could generate a bunch of 90% discount coupon codes (assuming that's possible - sometimes Alienware give away Steam keys that put a coupon in your inventory, so they have to come from somewhere) and just buy a pile of gifts for your fake reviewers. You'd be spending real money to do it, but at least everything would look legit... :)
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use these 90% discount code during 90% sale on Ru store and you won't be spending all that much ;)
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they could find other way like you could choose All or just bought on steam, just an idea
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The system is currently inconsistent, to say the least. At least one of my reviews was flagged as being a store purchase despite it actually being a key.
Anyone finding similar experiences with their own reviews or know why?
ETA: somewhat relevant Twitter convo between 20XX dev and Tyler Glaiel of Ed M fame
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Are they DLC? I haven't noticed anything with reviews specifically, but a number of DLC I activated as keys list the acquisition method as Steam Store under properties in the Steam client.
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At least one was a game. I'm currently trying to track down more examples, which is kinda impossible to do on mobile. But I've never reviewed any DLC which I got from a key though.
EDIT: Here's an example. I won this from a giveaway, so if anyone's unhappy with this feel free to downvote it if you want. But I genuinely enjoyed the game, I wouldn't have put in nearly 40 hours otherwise, and if I had the money to buy it I definitely would have.
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YOU WON THAT FROM A GIVEAWAY? YOU... WON... THAT?
Won't read - opinion bought - you're scum of the earth.
Kind Regards,
-Valve
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Hehhehheh. :P
It was a Twitch stream giveaway so my odds were better, and even then, not that great because there was only one copy. Imagine my huge surprise when I won.
That was waaaay back, and I'm quite happy with how it's been progressing. Regular updates, game is nearing completion, it's a completely different beast now than what it was back then, and one of the few that don't give Early Access a bad name. :)
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Ah, Twitch... that hive of scum and villainy, and bought keys.
Almost as bad as notorious free giveaway sites (if you just pay for it) like Humble Bundle, Indiegala, Bundlestars.
Also what are you talking about Early Access and bad name. Everyone knows our EA program makes Electronic Arts proud about it's evilness.
Regards,
-Valve
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Yea, there seems to be some "problems" with detecting reviews of games one activated with a key. From my reviews there are three of games which are not bought in the Steam Store. One is detected correctly as a key activation, one I can not find on the Store Page due to being too unpopular (or new or helpful or....) and the last one is in the "Bought from Steam Store" section although it is not. I checked my licenses and it is marked there correctly.
So this leaves the question why it is this way: Is there a cut-off date where every activation before will still be counted as Steam Store bought (as seeing that it was one of my earliest keys)? Or is there a minimum numbers of votes which would "promote" it to the Steam Store bought section (which would be a really terrible idea)? Or is there some unknown system where licensed resellers can validate there keys (which sounds like more effort than Valve would normally spend)?
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So this leaves the question why it is this way: Is there a cut-off date where every activation before will still be counted as Steam Store bought (as seeing that it was one of my earliest keys)?
That is the current theory I am running with, and so far for a few examples of games where I've done a key-based review, I've never actually seen any key-flagged review before November 2015. (It's not easy to check these because Summary doesn't display a "Load More Reviews" button at the bottom, so here's what I do - after I select Key Activations, I switch the dropdown box to Most Recent.)
At this point to confirm/disprove said theory, I think all we need now are a few people with a confirmed key-written review in October 2015.
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Since Steam doesn't want my reviews anyway, I've just deleted them all and saved them the trouble.
You might say "But that's a huge overreaction and complete overkill." To which I respond "So is what Valve just did."
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I think it's elitist and a dumb move from valve. I don't want to write another review.
And a big studio with enough bucks, can bias the rating of a shitty AAA game. And a small studio, only needs 10 spoiled children with money to sink their games to oblivion.
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So anybody else surprised that because of abusers,legit devs suffer?
Also, thank you Valve for not doing anything about the reviews with refunded purchase(it seems you can quite easily mark them the same way as steam/key purchase). So what next? $100 fee to make your reviews count regardless of purchase method?
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$100 fee is bad idea, but using purchase habits to score your reviews isn't bad idea.
Account has never bought anything form steam -> minimal influence
Account has only 1 review -> minimal influence
Account has 100's of reviews with low % helpful -> minimal influence
Account posts only funny reveiws (memers) -> minimal influence
etc.
More complex to tune and implement but in the end should give better results.
Oh and these are random examples and "minimal influence" doesn't mean all of these should share same influence. but just to give some ideas of other ways this could've been handled.
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Dunno, curator and circle jerking groups could really snowball with your idea, and "bargain" with devs even more easily.
(i do like your general direction though)
Removal of scoring influence is fine to me, but i'm wondering why the default view of reviews is so focused on steam purchases, which wasn't really necessary.
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Not surprised at all, that's like... Valve's business mantra; "If someone ain't screwed over, and it doesn't help jack shit, it ain't Valve!"
And I guess they just love re-fund review abuse too much to care about that.
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Does anyone actually rely on or use the Steam review system to buy games?
I only use it as a basic starter gauge before checking out game-play videos or twitch streams of a game before purchase,
If anything, I think it's a decent enough idea if only for filtering out those who got the game for free in exchange for a review.
TLDR version: Steam has never been the best place to get reliable views anyway, IMHO.
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But I mainly read the negative reviews.
Good point. I usually do the same, and actually for the same reason. :X
This change should, in theory, make the reviews more usable to people (though chances are I'll still use other sources as well, particularly for higher priced games).
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I like the UI change and more selection too, but not having key revs hidden by default and not counting.
Also 97% of my lib is now ineligible..
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anyone actually rely on or use the Steam review system to buy games
Me too. As I only buy bundles I don't spend more than a minute or two. Just isn't worth more, but enough to get a rough overview.
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Yeah, I was referring to more costly games (aka not bundle games lol), and didn't really consider the bundle games.
I usually just look at the overall rating and the videos/screenshots and steam description for those. :X
I stopped reading reviews of most games on Steam because invariably I find a game I really really like that didn't score so well on Steam because of some weird reason that's irrelevant to my enjoying the game (reviews bombed for DLC, No Man's Sky - which I love - type situations, curator review bombing, and others -- even my often strange taste in games :X).
EDIT: On topic, I think this is a good move by Valve and will make the review system more valuable.
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I usually just look at the overall rating and the videos/screenshots and steam description for those
yeah basically same ^^ except for <70% a quick look on what potential issues caused that
more costly games
whenever I spend a "ridiculous" sum of $5 ;-) for a single game, yes in those rare cases I check more, text+videos
really like that didn't score so well
yep happens, also the opposite
On topic
Edit:
I think it goes a bit too far to make all keys not count. Something like 97% of my library is now out and I basically don't need to bother writing. :-/
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Something like 97% of my library is now out and I basically don't need to bother writing. :-/
I kinda like that, though, haha. I am not one who enjoys writing reviews. I imagine for those that do, it's probably not so great a change. :X
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heh ^^ I intended to, not so sure anymore.
But Zelghi and Talgaby reporting here in got hit hard by that :-(
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They keep stepping away from their customers even further with every change they make.
It is more and more about Developers and Valve itself.
The freedom, we had in the beginning, gets taken away from us, update by update.
Valve was the good guy once, but now they annoy me more and more.
It's not fun to trade anymore, it's not fun to gift anymore and reviews are not taken into account if you got a CD Key.
What stupid idea is this? I have to buy the game directly from Valve if i want to share my opinion about a game now and have it counted?
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Too many fake reviews of new games. It is a good change.
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This is not the only solution than can solve the problem but the one benefits Valve most.. If the problem just about the abusers you can add just 2 checks to limit their numbers.
- Minimum hours of play time to be able to review each game.
- Percentage of won achievements.
Ther will be still abusers but legit users won'tbe harmed with abusers which is more important..
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Hm, so basically all keys given out as "review copies" will no longer count. Doesn't that seem really broken?
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I don't understand why users are so positive with this change. I don't see why someone who bought a key from GMG or WinGameStore should have his voice counted less than someone that bought it on Steam. This is the first time I know where Steam has made a clear difference between the two different ways of purchasing a game. While I don't care about the reviews (only did one myself to get the badge), one might fear what is the next step. Refrain games coming from steam keys from dropping trading cards ? I could see this
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Valve suckers who wouldn't buy a bundle if it saved them 98%?
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Negates about… 250-260 of my reviews, I think? And I'm the kind of strange person who writes reviews for the store page, not the friend list.
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Valve logic again. Instead of putting in effort and fix the real problem, just hide it behind a quick & dirty filter and pretend it doesn't exist.
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I disagree with the change, I along with tons of people mostly buy their games off official resellers.
I understand the reasoning behind this and also somehow support the effort towards reducing false reviews - but the implementation of this system is simply not right. This change just seems to have such an unnecessary negative impact on developers who sell their games in bundles and such that it doesn't feel worth it simply as an attempt at ridding store pages of false user reviews.
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I think it was necessary cause of those cheeky bastards (devs). But physical copy buyers are screwed alongside bundle buyers and key hoarders, right?
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Yup.
And while the cheeky devs get around it by buying a few Steam copies on alts now, the rest of us is forever screwed, and can pointlessly scream in the void a game is crap if we bought it from a bundle, the positive rating will stay.
Cheeky devs: 1
Good devs: 0
Users: -1
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My knee-jerk reaction changed a little after I looked at the changes on Steam.
The reviews section has a filter, and gives you a score. You can get the 'all purchases, all languages' score that's equal to the previous review score, and you can also get all purchases in your languages, only Steam, only keys. More options than before, so more informative than before.
For the global score, I think that's a bit of an issue, and I would have liked user control about that, but given the above, it's not a huge deal.
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Am I wrong to say that we cannot select the 'most helpful', 'recent' and 'funny' reviews anymore?
We can still vote a review as funny but we cannot select them anymore to read.
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Display As checkbox on the right of the selection options, click on it and the drop-down menu will give you 4 options: Summary, Most Helpful, Recent, Funny.
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Like K3W3L said, that option is misleadingly called 'Display Ass'.
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For curious users
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vividred_Operation
Also, sweet Jesus, the camera in the PS3 game loves to peak up skirts
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camera loves to peak up skirts
only coincidentally I bet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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http://store.steampowered.com/news/24155/
Second update:
http://store.steampowered.com/news/24331/
What do you think?
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