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http://www.dictionary.com/browse/monetary
It is irrelevant how people use it.
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They still have no right to tell you what to do with your key once purchased.
Depends on the country. They should not have one world wide. And they do not in the EU. But for other some countries their rules apply and those are clear.
They could as well give one key (as they did back in the days) so you can not trade anything.
I do not like their position either, especially if people only give their leftovers, but since I know why they are so pissed I can fully understand them.
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Giving keys to family and friends is personal use, same as movies - you can buy DVD and watch it with yout family/friends without problems, but you cannot go to a bar and watch it there with bunch of random strangers - well, not without paying additional licensing fees.
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Except nobody is talking about a legal term. Also that's not true at all since you could easily invite random people over legally to watch a movie. The point is that's not what personal use means anyway. You can't just ignore a definition of a word just because you know you're wrong.
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Except nobody is talking about a legal term.
Except for Humble, I guess.
Also that's not true at all since you could easily invite random people over legally to watch a movie.
Then why cinemas pay heavy money to show movies to strangers? Maybe because it's not legal to do public viewings without license, hmm?
You can't just ignore a definition of a word just because you know you're wrong.
Ironic - Humble talks about law matters and you ignore law definition of the word.
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Nobody has a home theater screen except maybe somebody like Bill Gates.
Also that's not even the legal definition of the word anyway. The legal definition is the same as the dictionary definition. PERSONAL. Belonging to the person.
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You are not alone, this is pretty much their standard behaviour right now: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/oQMpu/humble-bundle-doesnt-allow-giving-away-on-steamgifts
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You can see I have only 10 comments and most of them are from group buying bundles, which is not illegal I believe.
The others are leftovers from bundles I bought, so it's not like if the keys were stolen or coming from shady, plus in my country (whatever humble says), it's legal to resell anything until you are not making any profit. It's like I buy an apple computer, then sell it back to someone else and Apple would come and tell me it's forbidden to sell back their products (of course it's legal only if it doesn't become a big size business).
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It is cool if your country is like that, but HB is not a site in your country they have their own rules. The problem is that shady dealers are using HB for getting keys they sell to make money and they don't like that. The problem is us regular people are getting caught in that :/
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If this goes on for to long they could wind up in some hot water they can't ban traders as there tos try to do not also there refusing to give people the product they paid for
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No they actually can't surprisingly enough there bound by this little thing called the law and there tos mean Jack shit compared to the law also tos are litterally invalid in Europe and likely in America as well but no case has come up yet in America so no they can ban you from the store sure but that's all they can do they still have to give you your product that you paid for
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I will just put this here:
"Every time you buy a product or service from a professional trader, you're entering into a contract - whether it's signing up for gym membership, ordering car tires online, getting a mortgage for your house or even just buying your weekly shopping from the supermarket.
Under EU law, standard contract terms used by traders have to be fair. This doesn't change if they're called "terms and conditions" or are part of a detailed contract that you actually have to sign. The contract is not allowed to create an imbalance between your rights and obligations as a consumer and the rights and obligations of sellers and suppliers"
So you are wrong ToS is valid in EU and America. If they are fair or not is not to you and me to decide but the court. If you want to take HB to court do it and let us know if they are fair with ToS.
America gets so much lawsuits for let say a lady trying to dry a cat in a microwave and winning cause it was not in the manual. America is one of the country that rly reads every word of manual and contracts (ToS).
And btw so called ToS you call invalid just got a 14 year old to court cause he cheated in a game so.. (and he can no longer play the game)
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There have been EU rulings that allow the resale of software licenses, this is what people are referring to when they say that the terms are invalid.OP is French according to their Steam profile and as such Humble can't restrict their usage of those keys once they've been bought.
TL;DR The court already decided.
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Well you are right there have been rulings but for that he needs to sue HB as far as I am aware there is no law that says you can sell. Only some case that court ruled on once. Maybe I am wrong and it is stated in the law now, but if not the court needs to rule case by case.
As I said at one point I am not a part of EU but as far as I know the above statement is wright. Court rulings doesn't mean it is the law and that every case is the same.
And again I am neither for HB or against them, just want to see all of this end so I (who have a few keys on HB) can be sure if I can give them without worrying if they will work and I have to do all this shit.. :/
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The initial ruling was held up as recently as October last year though I'm not sure if there have been any newer cases than that.
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Your message doesn't even hint at steamgifts. I wonder if they could be tracking referer on gift links to disable keys. That would be downright devious.
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I'm guessing they use a script that adds the links to a user's profiles on different treating sites and Steamgifts (Enhanced Steam?). Pretty easy to click on those, see if any of the games given/traded match the user's HB account and bam, call them a reseller and deny support.
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They were always suspicious when this happened.
Humble Bundle first released in May 2010, and they were known for bending over backwards for players until they had layoffs in October 2015, after which they started putting restrictions on what they could do and having delays in their response time. Meanwhile, situations in line with the one described by the OP have only been coming out- in a very tiny handful of reports thus far, at that- over the past couple of months. More specifically, I can't recall any references to such events prior to this September. IGN purchased Humble in October, so the new policies may have been put in place as part of the buyout process, and be reflective of IGN's take on Humble, rather than on any preceding factors.
While the recent reports are troubling, they are in fact reflective of something recent, rather than something Humble has "always' been known for.
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Trust me it is just more people screaming now. The policy was there for a long time. I am sure of that cause it was in a post where the changes that IGN brought (about some info stuff) was also shown to be there for such a long time.
It is the same as 3 buys per account/card that is not mention a lot. But one time when there was a T1 that gave a lot of CV so many people spammed that here..
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Over the past 7 years, we've never seen anyone mention this specific kind of response before. That (and the fact that Humble used to dismiss mention of trading in support tickets sent to them and provide replacements regardless) indicates that Humble didn't have that particular policy in the past.
As far as the underlying ToS element you've mentioned elsewhere, that's just Humble adhering to laws related to unauthorized commercial resale. Even now, their ToS specifically state that such is the sole constraint of their ToS. Likewise, every single bundle site includes reference to that legality within their ToS- thus far only GMG has introduced specialized Terms of Service exceeding the basic legal expectations.
There's nothing in their ToS that prohibits gifting or trading, and even if there was, refusing to provide a functioning product would be illegal anyway (once you accept payment, you're legally obligated to provide a functioning [as described] product- if they're refusing both replacement and refund, that'd be fraud). While that kind of matter is typically of little concern within business-catering US, that's the kind of thing that can get a company in real trouble within the EU.
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As I said I am not defending HB. I have keys on HB that I am now scared to use as GAs if you are wright that this stuff is new (while I am not convinced yet I will search more)
But if you read the ToS it says:"YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT HUMBLE BUNDLE HAS THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION, WITHOUT ANY LIABILITY TO YOU OF ANY KIND AND IN ADDITION TO ALL OF ITS OTHER RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, IN LAW AND AT EQUITY, TO CANCEL ANY AND ALL DOWNLOAD PAGES, PRODUCT KEYS OR REDEMPTION CODES FOR PRODUCTS YOU HAVE PURCHASED SHOULD HUMBLE BUNDLE DETERMINE IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION THAT YOU HAVE VIOLATED ANY OF THESE RESTRICTIONS."
Caps are in ToS
And one of things that ToS says you can't do is sell and so on..
I am not part of EU, I am not from US as well. But as far as I know when you sign a contract if that contract says one side can stop giving you what you paid if you violate the right of the contract and you agree, then there is not too much to do.
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Humble used to be my favorite bundle site, but the more I see about their behavior lately, the more I lose hope in them.
Giving away DLC for paid games in the charity bundles (yet not giving away the actual game), refusing to help people if they are traders, etc.
It's a bit concerning how they are even figuring out who is and who is not a trader.
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HB was always against trading/selling keys from their site, it is in ToS and always was. Why would they help traders then? O.o
And about DLC for paid games that is not HB making that but YOGSCAST, pls point the finger in the wright direction.. ;)
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Because even traders have genuine issues with the site, and the issue wasn't related to trading or reselling. I buy bundles, and when there's occasionally a key for a game I already have, I give it away. If support refused to ever help me because of that, that would be disappointing. What else am I supposed to do? Just let it rot away in my purchases section? There's still also the question of how they determine who is a trader.
About the second thing, I've heard that Yogscast creates those bundles, but I hold Humble partially responsible still since it is through their site. If you want a more relevant example though, in the November 2017 monthly, one of the items was just in-game content for a f2p game. Another was two champions (not the full champion pack) for Quake Champions, although I'd argue the value of that depends on if the game goes free-to-play like some are expecting it to.
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Don't get me wrong, it would be shit if we, not resellers but gifters, get fucked. I am just saying that the sellers are the one to blame the most..
Quake Champions did raze a lot of smoke. But the problem with that is that Bethesda claims the game is not f2p meaning that pack cost something.. (but Bethesda also has paid mods so..)
P.S. Don't get me wrong I am not too fond to HB since most of the bundles are so bad for me now :'(
But Jan monthly is super good for me :D
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I only contacted them once because my key wasn't working and they gave me a new one pretty quickly.
I can understand how the email can be misunderstood, I can see how they might have thought you said it was duplicated by another person.
It's probably best to not be direct about your business and say you tried to gift a broken key to a friend and if you can get one newly generated.
But it's sad they want to crack down on something that doesn't hurt them. They should make a lot of profit from gifters and traders.buying doubles.
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Tell them that you've bought a game, and they should deliver. That's what you've paid for, and that's how things work.
If it didn't happened before, tell them that, it's your first time you had a problem with their service, and it's their fault for giving a dupe key, as they've stated " we are unable to find any evidence of suspicious activity that confirms your account was accessed without your knowledge".
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Humble bundle support is full of assholes I don't think im ever going to be buying from them
I tried buying the sim bundle from them it took the dollar said it failed gave me nothing then spat the dollar back a few hours later and support took a long time and it was just someone who essentially said fuck you
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What you just described is indicative of an error with your payment method [if the issue had been on Humble's end, it should have given you an error message or immediately provided your purchase]. Humble's policy- which they indicated is based on the contract terms they have with their contributors- is that they can't provide new bundle activations once a bundle sale period has ended. As such, any time a bundle purchase doesn't go through, you should repurchase and immediately put in a ticket requesting cancellation/refund of the initial purchase.
While it's frustrating the first time you realize how it's set up, the root of that frustration is based within a consumer's unfamiliarity with the underlying mechanics of the purchasing process, rather than being the outcome of any antagonistic presentation by Humble. If Support was problematic in how they responded to you, that's certainly an issue, but the initial scenario sounds like it was out of their hands.
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Its not clear where this key came from. Did you buy it on HB or is it a key that you won here or got elsewhere and you were told it came from HB.
If you bought it, then they can see that it came from your account and there should be no issue with invalidating this one and giving you a correct one. If you won it, and its not part of your account then the buyer would have to make a request.
I screwed up and put Husk in a wrong spot and it was part of my chart. Someone used the link. You can see it here.
Screwup with Husk.
I wrote to humble. Linked directly to the thread and told them I screwed up by accidentally posting the Gift URL in my notes. I told them it was intended for whoever won the GA. I said another key would be great but all I really wanted for sure was the key to be invalidated and removed from whatever account had stolen it.
They wrote saying the key was unused. I wrote saying the gift link was claimed and I had no idea if the key was known or not. I asked again for it to be invalidated. They wrote back and changed the key that was in my account. I then gave it away a while later.
Its sounds like things may have changed a bit but I take it with a gain of salt. This was back in Feb. I've read multiple stories where there support has been great. I had no problem but I've only talked to them this one time.
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All those problems seem to have started after you know....cough IGN cough
What we were expecting anyway?
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I never saw anyone complaining before ign bought humble
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why are you that hostile anyway? Have some manners, if you want to communicate like an ape go back to jungle not here. Or maybe you are working for ign i dont know and neither i care. I wasted too much time with a guy that talks to me like i had hurt him
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I didnt blacklist you because you told me the truth, heck i even believe you eventhough you didnt get me any evidence to prove your words but whatever, I blacklisted you because you speak like an ....... to someone that you dont even know for no real reason. I hope at least you dont talk like that in the real world
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I think its pretty clear thats why he wants another key
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If this happened to me I'd reply that all the games I've gifted are the ones that've let me create a gift link, so gifting these keys has been allowed by their site, and that I've never sold them on any gray market, just gifted them with the link the site has created specifically for gifting.
But I believe that having a steamtrades profile is another story because, although trading is not "selling", you make profit from the games, even if you get another game instead of money.
Edit: And even if you've gifted games here or traded them on steamtrades they cannot prove that you got those games on their site. Also, they don't even talk about the key being dupe, they only say that your account is save. They're taking your money and giving you a dupe key in exchange, that's called stealing.
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This has probably happened before and could easily lead to a class action lawsuit
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Yes, that's what I was thinking. If there's enough people with this message they could do something about it.
They say the account is save, so it's obvious that the key is dupe, and they're refusing to give a working one with excuses that probably aren't even legal. Despite whatever they've included in the terms of service, if those conditions are illegal in some way they can't apply them.
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Exactly, they cant refuse to give him a working key
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class action lawsuit wont' work, he traded or sold the key to someone else, once that other person got they key, no way exist to prove if it was him, or an actual duplicate key they gave him..
They could invalidate that key, but that would cost them and the publisher money for the revoked key and other cost associated with doing so..
The odds are you'll never get enough support to garner a class action suit, even if you did, most courts would look at the issue and throw it out, people already challenged one time use serial keys in US courts and lost quite badly.. Which is why PC games aren't resell-able
..
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Again, doing so is not against european laws anayways + I've never done that, I've always been on the buyer side on steamtrade and I cannot know where the keys come from.
My conscious is clean and if they want to try and provide hard fact I'm a reseller, good luck because I'm not lol
And I agree, I'm asking them to do their job of key seller, provide working key, here they just think the account could be accessed by someone else, they never think they could make a mistake on their side, incredible !!
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I bought something from the humble store, didn't realize it was for GOG instead of steam. They processed my refund by the next day and let me keep the humble cash or w/e that comes with it.
Edit: this was less than two weeks ago so very recent.
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Well, in my case, I wasn't asked them to provide me with a new working key, because 3 of my games from HB Monthly, I just reveal the link, but I can't remember that I've given those to anyone. So instead, I was just asked them, if can, to provide or to show, to whom I was gifted. But, I also got the same response.
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Somewhat off topic but the default charity they set it to is not a good thing to donate to and weirdly political
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I was in a rush I just set the donation percent to 0 along with the humble bundle tip so I just left it all to the devs
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say they likely tracked a few keys from your account to grey-ware sites and that's likely why they wont' help.. Could also be you've sold keys and then went to their support to replace them a few times, which is what put you on the radar..
The few times I've ever interacted with Humble or IG or BS support they've promptly resupplied the key to me. I've also never sold anything on one of those shady sites.. They can and will check the status of keys on those sites and when found they'll come down with the hammer quite hard on you..
Maybe that's not the case, but it seems odd they'd refuse to offer you support and specifically mention grey-ware sites..
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I can tell you it's not the case, as I've never, ever bought keys on the gray market !
Now I could have keys from the gray market, just like anybody on steamgift since I don't know where do the keys I win come from obviously...
But personnaly, my conscious is very clean thank you :)
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not buying keys, but selling them,, I've done over 1300 trades on steam gifts, both gifting and buying games, including people I am almost 100% sure were likely going to resell the keys, and when I contact Humble support they never refuse to provide me with a new key..
It's like the guy who has 40 trades on steamgifts but claims they have 4 or 5 impersonators.. I have all those trades and only had one guy pretending to me be. I'm a pretty high profile trade and only had a single person try to use my name, but someone who traded so few times has 4 or 5... seems odd..
Again maybe you didn't do anything wrong at all, it's not really out of the realm of possibility that Humble decided to just screw you over, but for some reason they don't want to give you a new key and think you sell your keys on greymarket sites.. Even if you did, it's kind of crappy they aren't giving you a new one..
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If it was a recent purchase, I tried activating the key myself, and Humble refused to replace the key, I would file a chargeback through my CC or Paypal. It is unacceptable to not provide what was paid for. They have no proof that you are selling or trading keys specifically purchased from their site, you could have obtained them from anywhere. I would only do this if I have used all other keys on my account or copied them offsite because I'm not sure what Humble would do it this situation, they may lock your account.
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Don't go this route as it will ultimately lead to them banning your account and you'll potentially lose access to everything on ot.
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Here is your replay message:
Hi,
As you are aware from my IP address and payment address, I am a citizen of the European Union. According to the laws of the EU, which Humble agreed to comply with when they started selling their products on the EU market, we are legally allowed to resell our purchased digital goods, including license keys. If you wish to read further upon, refer to the following case:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=124564&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=5213884
If you need the cliffnotes version:
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf
And if you need the easy-to-understand one:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120703/11345519566/eu-court-says-yes-you-can-resell-your-software-even-if-software-company-says-you-cant.shtml
As you can see, even if I really was reselling the keys, according to law, I am allowed to do so as long as it is done in a manner where I can no longer access the original software; and the one-time license activation keys used on Steam do exactly that, transfer the ownership without me, the original owner, getting access to the software. Since laws overrule any regulations included in the Terms of Service contract, you are legally ineligible to refer to the site rules and regulations regarding any possible reselling behaviour on my part.
Moreover, Humble, like all authorised resellers of publisher-provided Steam keys, can do the same process as every other store when a key in question is turning up to be a duplicate and the store suspects malpractice: you can issue a new key and invalidate the old one. This has been the standard practise for years, therefore you can continue to do this practise in my case as well.
Regards:
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And here is their last answer (very funny how they want to make me believe they did some "research about the key but don't want to disclose anything lol + if they gave the same key to 2 different humble accounts, of course the key will be redeemed properly on one account but problems on the other one....) :
"Hello,
The key you have received has been redeemed without issue and we cannot verify an issue on our end. We are unable to provide specifics as to the research conducted however we will not be able to reset the key you requested. If you would like further assistance we ask that you contact Steam support for further clarity on the specific key you would like reset.
Thank you,
-Kasen
Humble Bundle"
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Yes, the key has been redeemed, this is why it was marked as a duplicate in the first place.
Steam support referred me to the seller, since they validity of the keys is not their responsibility, it is Humble's.
Right now, they are actually preventing you from accessing the product you purchased. If Humble keeps doing this, contact these people and try to do what they say: https://www.cec-zev.eu/fr/accueil/
Also, try to tell the story on every possible place you can think of, especially in social media, if you have accounts there.
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Wtf, they can't prove their key isn't a dupe and they can't verify an issue on their end, which doesn't mean they can be 100% sure there's no issue on their end. Why should you contact with Steam or anyone else? They sold you the key, the key doesn't work, they must solve this, not you.
They say the key's been redeemed, but don't mention when or the account where it's been done, and on top of that they don't want to tell you what kind of research they've done, so they could've easily done nothing at all.
They are key sellers, these things can happen and they must take responsibility. When we gift a key and it turns out to be a dupe, we find another one for the winner, even if we have no idea why it's a dupe. Other sellers take the same responsibility, they must too.
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Exactly this. Humble noticed keys from monthlies have been resold. Ofcourse you might just traded it away for other games but the guy you traded with might end up selling them on either g2a or kinguin. I am pretty sure this is the exact case for them to reply exactly stated on the post above. But i know someone that did contacted a humble cause one of his link says redeemed when he gave it to me, and they did reset the link, provide him with key version of the game.
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Humble Bundle sucks. No one should make rules about what you do with what's now under your possession. Much less when it's something that you paid for.
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Have you revealed it yourself ?
For yourself ?
Just after you bought it ?
Also, you can insist saying (politely) they telling you bullsh**t, that they can verify with their provider if key was activated before you even bought bundle, for example.
(after reading some of your comments above) have you used their gifting system ?
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Just got a duplicated key in the humble care package bundle, so I sent them a request to change the key, but it seems they are trying to find excuses to avoid providing me with a working key.
They are making accusations (based on what ???) whereas I've never dealt with grey market and the keys from games I already own I've given to friends or here on steamgift and here is their wtf answer :
*Hi there,
Thanks for getting in touch.
Unfortunately, after taking a thorough review of your account, we are unable to find any evidence of suspicious activity that confirms your account was accessed without your knowledge. It has also become apparent you are an active key trader/reseller. Please be aware that purchases made through Humble Bundle are meant for personal use only. We do not support the exchanging of Steam keys or the trading of games. Additionally, we in no way support the trading or reselling of games purchased through Humble Bundle as this is a violation of our Terms of Service.
It should be noted that both trading and reselling keys on the “grey market” affects the industry’s ability to flourish and support our awesome developers and marketplaces like Humble Bundle, as noted in this article here. While the practice of reselling damages trust from developers, it should also be noted that a majority of resold/obtained games in this arena are purchased with stolen personal information. Ultimately, this practice negatively impacts the developers, Humble Bundle, and gamers all at once when these titles are found to be fraudulent purchases.
We highly recommend against this practice for a number of reasons and have explained in detail why this practice is dangerous for all involved in a blog post.
At this time, we will not be able to reset your keys or assist with any future requests for key resets.
Thanks again for writing into us and have a great day.
-Kasen
Humble Bundle*
I mus admit I'm pretty shocked because I buy bundles on several bundle sites, it happened a couple of times I got a duplicated key, so I made a request and they gave me a working key, but here I'm just appalled by the answer from a site, I thought, was above the others in terms of quality...
Is this normal or did I just land with someone from support who just got dumped ? lol
Thanks for sharing your experiences :)
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