They're doing too much bad moves. It's alright if they make their own games exclusives, but spreading publisher's legs with money to making them exclusives it's the worst. I left the console war because of this shit and now we have on PC too? DRM Wars? Gamindustri is a ho, man!
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I've just got it for the free games and Unreal Tournament. Hardly any features compared to the Steam client, no Linux client, poor customer support. I don't see myself buying any games on there any time soon.
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poor customer support
support may be bad, but the official epic forums are great!
they will help you if you have questions like how to run subnautica, or if you want to fix a bug in metro exodus. 👍💃
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You got yo love this feature : http://prntscr.com/mvt61d
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Not that Steam has anything close to good customer support. ;)
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You convinced me. I will support epic by buying this : https://www.gog.com/game/jazz_jackrabbit_2_collection
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Not only is that not an argument (no more than saying "this car has no tires or steering wheel, but it has brakes!" is an argument), but I'd be willing to bet the people who had their Steam accounts phished recently and then returned quickly will have a different opinion of Steam support.
Regardless of that point, one client/store being "less shitty" than the other (which is subjective anyway) doesn't make that client/store "good." It just makes it a little less shitty.
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Well, normally you would be right. But if the original statement is "EGS is bad because it's worse than Steam", then I think it's fair to point out any of the mentioned points that are probably equally as bad in Steam.
My personal view on Steam's support: I once had a problem with my UPlay account. I called their hotline, there was a nice technician on the phone and he helped me solve my problem (recover my account) within a few minutes. That would have taken hours or days via email. I wish Steam had something similar. Valve is one of the most profitable companies on the planet. I'm sure they could easily afford proper support. So Ubisoft is like my personal gold standard in that regard. When I wrote a support mail to Valve, I got a copy&paste answer that wasn't helpful at all. You will find countless examples of that all over the internet. In some cases Steam support even tried to silence people by threatening consequences for their account, should they dare to contact them again. That is not what I consider good support at all. So again, if people want to explain how bad EGS is by comparing it to Steam, the customer support should probably not be part of that comparison.
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Well, normally you would be right. But if the original statement is "EGS is bad because it's worse than Steam"
Andrewski made it clear why he believes it's worse than Steam. He gave three very specific reasons, and you focused on one. You saying Steam is worse at one of those three doesn't make Steam worse. For a Linux user (for example) Epic is completely unusable.
You're still just saying Steam's support is bad (and then you compare it with Uplay's?). Epic's support could very well be worse.
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You saying Steam is worse at one of those three doesn't make Steam worse.
And when did I ever say anything like that? Honestly, you're interpreting way too much in my statement here. All I said was that single line, and somehow you think I said Steam is worse than EGS? You will not find a single post all over the forum where I ever said that.
You're still just saying Steam's support is bad (and then you compare it with Uplay's?). Epic's support could very well be worse.
Yes, it could be. Could also be better. All I was saying was that Steam's support is probably not a good measure to go by. And if we don't know if Epic's support is worse or better, Andrewski doesn't know either and probably shouldn't use that as an argument.
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You're still just saying Steam's support is bad
That is what I said you said. It's also irrelevant to what Andrewski said (that was the point I was making).
Andrewski: Eggplant tastes like crap!
KillingArts: Parsnips taste bad, too!
Unless you were making a comparison, there was no point to your comment. Andrewski said EGS has poor customer support, and your reply was "Steam's support is bad!"
See how odd and out of place your comment looks (unless you intended comparison)?
Edit: Fuck it, I'm just going to be blunt -- it looks like you were miffed someone bad-mouthed Epic and so you latched onto the one thing (since the other two items he stated cannot be debated) you could debate in defense of EGS.
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Unless you were making a comparison, there was no point to your comment. Andrewski said EGS has poor customer support, and your reply was "Steam's support is bad!"
That depends on how Andrewski meant his statement.
Hardly any features compared to the Steam client (1), no Linux client (2), poor customer support (3).
There are two ways you can interpret that statement.
- These are three seperate things, independent of each other
or - Two and Three are explanations for One (as I understood it). One, such as Two and Three
I think taking into account how often Epic is compared to Steam here it is not unreasonable to understand it the way I did. And then my comment makes a lot of sense. You can of course now just claim that it is so, so obvious that it has to be 1. But I think you wouldn't be competely honest then.
Edit: Fuck it, I'm just going to be blunt -- it looks like you were miffed someone bad-mouthed Epic and so you latched onto the one thing (since the other two items he stated cannot be debated) you could debate in defense of EGS.
I am miffed? Wait, isn't what you try to accuse me here exactly what you are doing right now, just the other way around? Are you not looking for people who speak pro-Epic, or at least not against it, and attack them? Look at the discussion you started here. Look what you made out of that one-liner I posted. I can't help but get the impression you don't like when people are not 100% against Epic, so you try to dismantle their posts and tell them how "odd and out of place" those are.
If you want to have a serious discussion with me about this topic, I suggest you answer to the posts where I actually explained myself. Where I said why I think that Steam has problems - a lot of them - and why EGS might actually be an opportunity. Come with actual arguments instead of trying to dismantle every word I said in a single sentence. ;)
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Yes, I clearly go around attacking anyone who likes the Epic Store. Lmao.
Seriously, what the living fuck? Do you even know what my opinion is? Of Steam or EGS? I'm guessing you don't.
Thanks for proving my point, though.
it looks like you were miffed someone bad-mouthed Epic and so you latched onto the one thing (since the other two items he stated cannot be debated) you could debate in defense of EGS.
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Sorry, but what do you expect? You attack me based on that single line I posted. You accuse me of being "miffed" about something that I am not. You basically accused me of being a EGS shill that defends them on the internet no matter what, I guess? And now that I attack back with a similar statement about you, you cannot believe what you read? Seriously? Maybe you should re-read how you approached me, which words you put in my mouth and what you accused me of. And then see my statement in context of that. I wasn't doing anything you didn't do first.
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It's only "attacking" because you disagree with my opinion (and you know damned well if I wanted to call you a shill, I'd just straight up do it), but feel free to tell me Steam tastes bad on pizza, too. I won't be hurt, and I won't accuse you of attacking me.
... because that's exactly how emotionally invested I am in all of this. But you keep fighting the good fight!
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I never had a problem with anyone disagreeing with me. You should know that. It's not your disagreement, it's how you say it that let's it feel like an attack. It's how you accuse me of cheap tricks in a discussion (like only concentrrating one one aspect, as if I even had a real discussion here at that point). It's what you implied with your "just gonna be blunt" statement. You can disagree all you want. I even welcome you to do that. No interesting discussions without disagreement. But it has to be respectful. Otherwise people go from a discussion to a quarrel, as we just did. And that's not helping anyone.
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I left Epic behind when the pulled the plug on Paragon, abandoned Unreal Tournament 4 and decided to put all their eggs in the Fortnite basket.
They've slowly, finally realized that was a stupid move, but rather than fix it they decided to do something even more stupid and open a store.
And now to top if off rather than partner with Steam like GOG did, they're trying to muscle their way in by buying exclusive rights to games....how far the mighty has fallen...sigh
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I don't use it at all. If I want free games I'll just use the t client.
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They got cheaper prices for Middle Eastern countries (Metro Exodus is $20 on their store for me while $60 on steam) which is something that was asked for on steam for the longest time. That's the only advantage they have for me, and meanwhile there are no games I am interested in that I can take advantage of this with.
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Still waiting for Epicgifts.com to be a thing before I make an account there
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It's a fine place to get free games to add to the collection.
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Easy come easy go. :)
There's a chance it will last for a while. I think that Epic has enough money to keep it up for a few years at least.
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Do you think they are paying developers for every copy of the game that people have installed for free?)
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That would be my guess. Though they only promised a year of that, IIRC.
I meant enough money to keep the store up and bribe devs for exclusives.
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It seems to me that they just give even less commission on sales.
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Why not buy Division 2 from Uplay instead of having double DRM?
Unless you have like -50% sale due to region, that is...
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Uplay have constant -20% (if you have 100 Uplay points from achievements), so I don't think Epic will ever offer better price (unless you already live in a region where game costs like $30 instead of Uplay's $60), just like Steam never offered better price for their games compared to Uplay/Uplay-keys (as long as they had same base-price between those two stores).
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So far, I couldn't care less about the Epic Games Store, because they don't have a single game that I would like anyway (free or otherwise). I'll decide whether it's worth the fuss to install another game client in case that changes. Besides, even though more competition is healthy in general, I really doubt we'll be better off with some company owned by a Chinese conglomerate (Tencent), compared to the devil we know (Valve).
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From what I read they affected GOG indirectly with their 12% revenue so for me that alone makes me not support them!
And I just talked with a friend from South Africa, he bought metro 2033 gold edition for 33$ now he can buy it for 58$ normal version!
I can buy it for 60EUR and 84EUR the gold edition not for 50$ or 50Eur but 60EUR because ...
So from my part when that 12% goes to crap publishers like deep silver or Ubisoft and indirectly affects GOG that is the only DRM free client ...
Competition ... when the lowest price that I can get is 57EUR for this game and goes for some from 33$ to me 84EUR they can keep their 12% I will rather buy TW3 a second time on GOG to support real competition not this
Steam with family share and GOG with no DRM, with those alone, are better than all the other clients combined!
Free games never made my buy from Origin or Uplay or will make me buy from Epic.
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Oh, if you dislike that they take only 12% of the cut, you must absolutely Humble Bundle - they take only 5%! Let's make a "We all hate HB, because they're not taking enough money" thread now! ^^
The thing is, you can't possibly make Epic responsible for that. You know, if Steam had lowered its cut, you all would have applauded them. More money for the devs, hooray! That means potentionally lower prices and definitely more money for new games, which is especially important for indie devs. You all would have agreed that this is a good thing. But no, now that Epic does it - and we all hate Epic, don't we - people are somehow able to interpret this as a bad thing. This GOG story is an unforseen side effect. Epic did not plan to destroy the FPP program. They just offered to take less revenue for themselves. That in itself is not an evil thing at all, even if you seem to think so.
As much as I sympathize with GOG - from what I've read, they are not that successful with their store. Devs said compared to Steam GOG is completely irrelevant. With another competitor pushing onto the market it must be even harder for them to keep up now. What they should do is also come up with something that makes them more interesting to the customer. Instead they make themselves less atrractive by eliminating the FPP program. Not sure if that is the correct move.
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KillingArts, we had some arguments before I don't want to offend anyone, I was too one-sided if I am that way now please stop me.
No you didn't understand or I was not that explicit, I don't care that they take 12% but that is bogus from my perspective, 12% from what the 84EUR from me if I decide to buy it from EPIC. The problem with the prices is that this 12% discount that would have been for this game 8% less than on Steam is a negative for me because the USA gets 50$ price and I get 60-84EUR my friend got from 33$ for gold to 58$ for what to indirectly affect customers from the rest of the world and GOG.
Why should Steam lover its cuts when it already did to 20 %, why doesn't EPIC sell me the game at 50$ worth in EUR or for my friend how it was on steam 33$ and not 58$.
This is your price cut all for the USA ++ in the rest of the world, check RU prices.
You just made your argument on Humble that is an indirect product of Steam because of steam keys, HB is charity I support it because what they brought to the table: bundles that increased sales for some games and gave some money for charity this is a plus from Steam and not a counter-argument that supports EPIC's 12.
Sorry but I disagree with what EPIC did was not for the industry but for themselves, let's be real here, they offered 12% because they have the capital from their battle royal game and offered us the consumer's choice by being in one place with increased prices and no discounts in the near future.
GOG is the only competition that Steam has on features, all the other clients are insignificant vs Steam and it will stay the same, EPIC is not competing with Steam but beeing the new EA on the block with exclusivities now 3rd parties and free games, they innovate nothing they divided and want to concur.
I don't understand how can someone see this as competition, what competition, this is console wars grade of competition.
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KillingArts, we had some arguments before I don't want to offend anyone, I was too one-sided if I am that way now please stop me.
I am not offended, and hopefully you aren't either. I always like our discussions, even if we offen disagree. If we had the same opinion on everything, we wouldn't need to discuss at all. ;)
I get what you are saying about specific examples where the Epic price is higher than the Steam or GOG price. If you profited from the FPP program before and now you have to pay more in your region, that's bad for you. I get that. But I take issue with this statement:
From what I read they affected GOG indirectly with their 12% revenue so for me that alone makes me not support them!
This sounds to me as if you are making Epic responsible for GOG eliminating the FPP. And I think that's simply wrong. Epic tries to get attention by offering better terms for developers. They did not aim to destroy the FPP. Doing that is GOG's decision. Also, if they really told the truth about all this or not is not yet clear to me. Because I cannot find any information on whether GOG actually reduced their cut as well. I only find old info on them taking 30% like everybody else. Did they go to 12% as well, and that's why they had to kill the FPP? Don't know, they didn't say that.
Why should Steam lover its cuts when it already did to 20 %
They went to 20% only after Epic offered 12%. So this was a reaction to them. This is already competition taking effect. Even if we customers don't benefit from it yet (because they will always find a reason why we have to pay full price, no matter their actual costs...). But the devs alreeady benefit from Epic and Valve competing against each other. On both platforms.
Also, let's be clear about one thing: Valve only gives 20% to high profile customers. All indie devs still have to pay 30%, which doesn't seem fair to me.
You just made your argument on Humble that is an indirect product of Steam because of steam keys, HB is charity I support it because what they brought to the table: bundles that increased sales for some games and gave some money for charity this is a plus from Steam and not a counter-argument that supports EPIC's 12.
Well, whenever I bring the argument of competition, people say there is already competition in the form of HB and other stores. Now you say HB is not a valid argument because it's kind of part of Steam and no competition in that sense? ^^ So either HB is competition to Steam and Steam is not a monopoly - then we could argue about percentages - or it is not. And if it's not competition, then Steam is a monopoly. Which is it?
Sorry but I disagree with what EPIC did was not for the industry but for themselves, let's be real here, they offered 12% because they have the capital from their battle royal game and offered us the consumer's choice by being in one place with increased prices and no discounts in the near future.
Sure, I never said that Epic does anything for the good of the industry. They only do anything for themselves, just like any other company. Valve also does not do anything for the good of the industry. They make more money than anyone. If they wanted to improve the industry, they would have implemented refunds on their own instead of having legal pressure. And they would invest some of their money into proper support. Epic being a big bad company is not an argument, as they all are big bad companies. ;)
I don't understand how can someone see this as competition, what competition this is console wars grade of competition.
I don't agree with the exclusivity stuff. In fact I don't agree with any exclusivity. And I think Nintendo's and Sony's exclusivity is way worse than Epic'. While I would prefer all stores to sell all games, I can also admit that the worst that can happen on PC is that you have to use another launcher to start your game. Sorry, that's not the biggest of deals to me. Sony buying off Death Stranding and therefore preventing me from ever playing it is a way bigger deal than simply having to use another launcher for a game.
I repeat (because I am sure some people will already have forgotten what I wrote just a few sentences earlier): I am not for exclusivity. Especially in the case of Metro this was a shitty move. But I also get why they are doing it. Because Steam is such a big monopoly that you have to find some way to compete with it. GOG is not relevant competition, sadly. Sure, everybody likes GOG. But barely anyone buys their games there. While I dislike the exclusive stuff that is going on right now, I hope that this at least results in a worthy competitior to Steam, which we all will hopefully benefit from at some point.
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This sounds to me as if you are making Epic responsible for GOG eliminating the FPP. And I think that's simply wrong. Epic tries to get attention by offering better terms for developers. They did not aim to destroy the FPP. Doing that is GOG's decision. Also, if they really told the truth about all this or not is not yet clear to me. Because I cannot find any information on whether GOG actually reduced their cut as well. I only find old info on them taking 30% like everybody else. Did they go to 12% as well, and that's why they had to kill the FPP? Don't know, they didn't say that.
I kind of am, it may be unfair but I can't support them. 12% for developers where developers make billions by exploiting us with microtransactions, live services etc.
I end it at this ... I am not profiting from the program I am in the same region as you EUR1.
They went to 20% only after Epic offered 12%. So this was a reaction to them. This is already competition taking effect. Even if we customers don't benefit from it yet (because they will always find a reason why we have to pay full price, no matter their actual costs...). But the devs already benefit from Epic and Valve competing against each other. On both platforms.
Also, let's be clear about one thing: Valve only gives 20% too high profile customers. All indie devs still have to pay 30%, which doesn't seem fair to me.
Correct me if I am wrong but 20% was done before the EPIC store announcement.
30% is the standard, GOG deserves it, EPIC doesn't deserve anything, they are bringing console tactics on steroids.
I will answer later for the rest!
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I kind of am, it may be unfair but I can't support them. 12% for developers where developers make billions by exploiting us with microtransactions, live services etc.
True for the big publishers, sure. But at the same time indie devs say publicly how they cannot survive on Steam because they are not making enough money there. If they make a few more bucks on EGS, that's a good thing in my book.
Correct me if I am wrong but 20% was done before the EPIC store announcement.
No, pretty sure it was the other way around.
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No, pretty sure it was the other way around.
If I see this articles correctly:
EPIC announced on 4 dec :https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store
And Steam on 30 nov based on this article : https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matthew-wilson/valve-announces-changes-to-steams-revenue-cut/
or 1 dec on this announcement : https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks#announcements/detail/1697191267930157838
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Oh, guess I was wrong about that then. Could have sworn it was a reaction to the Epic annoucement. Huh. Also interesting how close those two announcements were. Almost the same date.
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It was illogical, that big of a company to do reactionary announcement from someone that is 1000 smaller as a store, it was the reaction of what happened until then and they targeted the epic announcement.
My point is the Orgin, Uplay, Batesda, battle net are not the solution, they are only fractionating the market and taking it hostage.
Steam is already 15 years old and at its old man slow speed it's changing more then what the other combined are bringing to the table.
Epic is the worst of it, brought us increased prices, first-time 3rd party titles exclusivities, after marketing hostage that was exodus, bribes to be on epic store, the most bare bone store from all there is and for what for some indies to have a bigger share where there is humble bundle with 5% and Io with what you want o give them or twitch store with 8%, they got the bribe money and think we will buy on steam full price in 1 year ... forget it 10EUR max.
Alternative like Bethesda launcher and their Fallout 76 because they wanted all the money, no refunds, and no steam reviews :)).
Or double DRM with denuvo and VM protect Ubisoft :)).
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just can't find my comment anymore :|
few days ago i've told you something about your (Support) tag and something else. donno if you've noticed/can recall it.
sorry, KA, for that one... was lil rude :P
have a good monday + a grrreat week
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Yeah, I remember. That was about grey market stores. I noticed it, but I personally think being a support member should not prevent me from saying my opinion on it. Anyway, I didn't think you were rude in any way. No need to apologize. :)
You have a great week, too!
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Oh, I already went to check the epic store for the presence of these tabs)
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Enough with this EPIC store!
https://store.steampowered.com/app/976730/Halo_The_Master_Chief_Collection/
Halo is coming to steam!
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Improve your store against EPIC that is a joke.
BTW I have 9 games now on EPIC store ...
Nice picture you have there :D!
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A little bit of irony for you.
Tim Sweeney is the man who once said he feared Microsoft would be the ones to lock down the PC gaming market by locking everything to their own store back when it was introduced. Now they're (Microsoft) releasing one of their biggest game franchises on Steam.
Meanwhile, Epic is doing everything they can to lock as many of the big players to their own store as they can.
Funny how the world works.
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I know that as a fan of Jazz rabbit I am sad.
I also know that they abandonment the PC platform because it was not profitable for them :(.
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Why create another thread? Their launcher is really bad compared to the features Steam provides.
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their ceo sad that they wont fight with steam features.
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New feature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frp1c7nGT4w
I am kind of late ...
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OK ...
First, you take a game that was marketed and supported on another platform and remove the physical copies steam keys.
Second, you add a feature to seek friends from steam and scan metadata from a config file from the steam client and import it in your own client GDPR breaks here.
Now you take a game that was crowdfunded and spit on the face of the backers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zsPuqhxNsU
They could overtake EA's model in a year if this "competition" continues!
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@KilingArts do you still defend them?
Your point would have been much better served had you left that out, in my opinion.
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You are right, I disagree with him but that doesn't matter, I still want to hear his opinion!
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And something stupid from Steam because why not :)) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvz7Tce0CwU
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Rebel Galaxy Outlaw launching on Epic Games Store – Q&A
Q) Exclusives are anti-consumer, why would you do this? (you monster)
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A) OK, so that’s a little complicated. And our answer is long-winded. Bear with us.
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So, before Valve and the 70/30 split it was pretty darn rough to be an indie (both in terms of royalty share and in terms of the ability to sell things without a publisher). We can all thank Valve for using their leverage to make that happen, and usher in the era we have now. We think it’s safe to say that a large percentage of the games made today wouldn’t exist without it.
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Epic is using their leverage to push that even farther, to 88/12. That’s another whole strata of developers who can survive.
there's nothing complicated about it. developers and publishers want to earn more money while we consumers pay the same, and we are forced to buy the game from a store with less than 50 games, and run it with a client that has less features than any other available app right now.
that's 100% greed disguised as "we are poor pls help us".
screw them all. 🤷
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Epic is using their leverage to push that even farther, to 88/12. That’s another whole strata of developers who can survive.
That's the part I take issue with. There's absolutely nothing that says anywhere that Epic will be allowing that whole other strata of developers onto their platform. In fact, they seem to be intentionally exclusionary when it comes to what is allowed on their market (which isn't necessarily bad in itself, but is quite contradictory to that statement). He even goes on to mention the curated store later in the same article ...
Kinda seems like a cheap excuse, especially given that they've not only survived, but came out enough ahead to make another game, thanks to Steam. They've also bundled their own game on 4 separate occasions (selling it for pennies on the dollar), so I have a tough time commiserating with their plight when they've devalued their own property by choice.
Lastly, I'd certainly like to know why it wasn't mentioned whether or not they received a big check up front. Epic isn't going to do that with everyone to incorporate that "whole new strata" into their store. They're only going to do it with established publishers who they expect to reach a particular threshold of sales.
TLDR: The entire premise of the Epic store has never come off to me as "Epic are giving struggling developers a better chance to survive." It appears to me as though Epic are giving successful developers/publishers a shot at more money, and a way to line their own pockets at the same time.
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My speculation is that, I do not think the user base will be increased with all this exclusives. Its more from Fortnite and the Free Games (I for one). In long term, I do not believe the money they had spent thus far will be covered by the sales of the exclusives. Its more of a this is our 1st year and lets make a punch kind of promotion. In long term, i cant see these deals go long and sustain the profits at all. This probably be a 1 year phenomenon and hopefully the devs/publishers can use the extra funds to create/develop their games further. Cheers~
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As far as I am concerned most of these deals are 1yr exclusives. I have less problems with newly launched games like Metro and Phoenix Point as they will return in a year's time. I do not buy newly launched games so my question will be what will they do with the money from the exclusive deal? Sit on it? Or use the resource to further develop the game.
In the ideal thought of using it for further development this would actually mean advantage when they release a more stable built with more content on other platforms. I guess Steam is fully aware of it thus they do not think its a disadvantage and thereby no action thus far except for Halo exclusive showing they can still throw the strongest punch out there. If the initial deals last more than a year, then it'll be an issue from then on. No doubt its all base off greed imho :)
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I've never liked Tim Sweeney and now hearing how it was scraping my Steam dir I'm glad I only installed it on a secondary comp to add the free games.. Also any studios that start hyping a game on Steam then jump somewhere else go into my blacklist. If you spend a year on steam building hype, release it there.
In any case Steam is always my first choice. I'll get GOG, especially for older games, if theres a good reason [and there often times is, Steam versions of older games often run like shit, or not at all].. Origin and uPlay I have just for ME, and free games they wanna give me.
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Background: At the winter sale, I bought a Slime Rancher, went through it and safely deleted. The other day I go to the Epic store and see this game in the list for free distribution. HOW SO?!
Предыстория: На зимней распродаже я купил Slime Rancher, прошел его и благополучно удалил. На днях я захожу в магазин Epic и вижу эту игру в списке для раздачи. КАК ТАК?!
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