A statement was made in another tread about there being a high degree of antagonism between low level and high level people, something that I've personally not noticed. My experience it's that it's mainly down to individuals clashing, not "high level people" looking down at "low level people", and "low level people" generally disliking "high level people".

Also, exact definitions of high & low level were not given, but level 7 is at least considered high level in this context.

Obligatory GA

9 years ago

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Is there a degree of antagonism between high and low level people?

View Results
Yes, to a large degree
Yes, to a small degree
No
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9 years ago
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There is actually a good scientific explanation why every internet community (after a certain point) tends to separate itself in castes (where antagonism you described is one of the side effects). BASA (Brazilian Academy of Science and Arts) conducted an interesting experiment in 2007 regarding the behavioral patterns of people with different social ranks and the main idea behind their study was to use different cups in quality, shape and size. The test subjects who participated in the experiment had a task to eliminate various cups as time went by just based on their appearance. However, what's interesting is that a pattern emerged where it was evident how the cups of better quality were usually last to be eliminated, until there was only one left. To this day, it is considered as one of the breakthrough studies when it comes to human psychology and two female scientists came up with it achieved great recognition in their field, not to mention how their video of the whole study is one of the most downloaded ones.
Anyway, it's called 2 Girls 1 Cup, just enter that in google and you should be able to find some footage. Definitely worth checking out, there's nothing in the world like it.

9 years ago*
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10/10 would get trolled again.

9 years ago
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This must be why user IHateXarabas hates you.

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There's also an experiment titled 1 Guy 1 Jar which conducted something similar to what you have mentioned. I'm sure you must have heard of it (and maybe tested out this procedure yourself!), but I thought I would mention it for anyone else reading here today.

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Yup, it's very important for both genders to be represented in science.

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A++ I learned so much from this video.

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OMG 10/10. I read all the way all 1st paragraph and believe it's real. Until I saw the experiment name ......

9 years ago
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Ok this is just my personal take. It might not be right or wrong for everyone.

I personally see the spirit of this site to be to GIVE and if you win something, or end up on someone's whitelist, or invite...it's just a bonus right on top of doing something nice for others and meeting some awesome personalities. I realize there are givers and takers in the world, and the site does have its share of takers who have little to no intention of giving back.

I see this site as a nice way for many people in a variety of countries around the world to win something they might not normally be able to buy at Steam's prices. (For example, I have heard a few times that Australia's game pricing is exceptionally high, even if that only means physical copies, winning the digital game version is a nice alternative!)

So, if someone doesn't have enough money to buy Steam games easily, why do I promote high level GA's so much? I see the need already being fulfilled to make low tier GA's as there is a massive amount of low-to-no level required GA's. People coming to this site at level zero have many options for GA's to enter and win. I also see very few high level GA's, and I wish to see those people, who have given THOUSANDS of USD dollars of non-bundle GA's (sorry I dont know other country exchange rates), to receive something exclusively just for them. I think this is a nice bonus for them for their contributions.

One thing that I have also noticed (not that this is why I do it), but when I make mid-high level GA's, these are people who already know to mark gifts received promptly...they tend to check back on the site more frequently and mark an item received more promptly. Sometimes people join the site and don't immediately get into the rhythm right away, or have been here long enough to understand some of the courtesies that pop up. It can cause SEVER MENTAL ANGUISH (haha) when a giver is sitting at Level 5.99 for a week, and someone just posted a flash GA for GTAV for all the level 6's!

Anyway just IMO, I don't expect everyone to agree, I just thought I would share one perspective.

9 years ago
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Well, judging by the level 10+ raffles I see from time to time...
Yes.
Absolutely.
417/779 (More than half) Agree that there is a problem.
IMO, It's not real charity if your giving it to people who have already proven they can throw a lot of money away for the sake of someone else. Your just saving somebody 60 some-odd dollars, instead of giving it to someone who couldn't get it otherwise. This also brings up the question of if those contributing are trying some sort of gambit to make a profit off this site. (Unlikely,. though it may be)
I don't expect to change anyone minds, but if I am going to be a part of this community, then I will say my two cents on a issue when it arises.

9 years ago*
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This also brings up the question of if those contributing are trying some sort of gambit to make a profit off this site. (Unlikely,. though it may be)

You would have to be incredibly lucky to actually make profit from this site, if you're going above ~level 5. It's a horrible investment.

Well, judging by the level 10+ raffles I see from time to time...
Yes.
Absolutely.
417/779 (More than half) Agree that there is a problem.

Do bear in mind that the question goes both ways, so it's both lower level people thinking that higher level people are being unfair, and higher level people thinking that lower level people are being intentionally rude to them for not letting them joint their GAs (personally I've seen a couple of people being really rude and, well, I can't think of a better way to describe it than say "acting like spoiled brats" about it, though they are a clear minority, I've never actually seen any of the level 10 raffles that you're talking about), so the way people answer it just shows that there is a problem, not where the problem actually is.

9 years ago
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Enough persistence, (And use of the level 5 raffles, which you are more likely to win) can easily result in a profit, if you sink in enough hours, But I'll drop this point.

9 years ago
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to reach lv5 you need to give away $250 in games, that's a pretty steep price just to have some chances at winning stuff...

you would be better by being lv0, leeching and reselling the gifts till support bans you for not activating anything.
now, that would profit. and that's why most high-lv users don't make lv0 GAs.

9 years ago
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(Please correct me if I am wrong about any assertions or inferences I make in this coming response.)
It should be kept in mind that the odds are that only a minority of level 0's go on to re-sell their gifts (Unless there are some statistics proving me wrong, which I will be more than happy to receive)
The problem with leeching as a level zero is that,even if you're very dedicated, your going to need to go a long time before winning something, then trying to sell it off. I do not know the average time support gives you for not activating things, but I assume that if you win one giveaway per month, considering most games given away are worth less than 20 dollars, and it takes the support 3 months to ban you, you walk away with a clean 15 dollars (and you are likely disposed by a large group of people). If you spend 250 dollars, you can be trying to do a long term investment, as a 1/44 chance of winning a game is much higher than a 1/661. Many of the high level giveaways tend to be more expensive than the lower level ones. Assuming this averages to twenty dollars, you need to win 12-13 games that you want in order to get your money's worth. This system could easily pull out in the long run, with enough persistence.
Not saying anyone does it, just pointing out it could be viable.

9 years ago*
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in theory it's easier to create 20 accounts to farm stuff here as lv0-1 than a single one to level it up and just hope you don't get caught.
there's no risk of losing any investment.

it's impossible to be a high-level user farming games to resell because most lv-restricted GAs are monitored closely by their creators. and since there's way less people that can enter, it's easier to spot rule-breakers. ;)

it doesn't really matter how much profit they can make, people will do anything for free stuff (just check some raffles in steam groups or sites that ask you 100 questions to have 1% chance at winning xD ).

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From what I've seen most of the hostility between the two groups comes from the low levels.

9 years ago
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Contrary to the beliefs I'm seeing, I think it's the high levels hating on the low levels.
So many high level users bar the door from the low levels, refusing to so much as entertain the thought of them entering the 'giveaway'.
When you ask them about it, you get instantly blacklisted for DARING to say something they did not agree with.
If they didn't have anything against the low levels, they would not use the level requirements. Thus, I conclude that the level system is a facilitator for hatred and segregation.

9 years ago
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While I don't agree with blacklisting someone for asking the question (unless you're rude about it and demand to be let in), there is a reason why people host high level GAs to avoid problems. Do bear in mind that this is one of those "all melons are berries, not all berries are melons" kind of thing, I'm talking about a sub-set of a far larger set of people. The people who don't read the rules, are most likely to re-gift and just want to leach without giving anything back (I don't mean just giving back games, but also be helpful and such) are low levels, and some people don't want to deal with this. All the re-rolls I've requested due to rule breaking have been low levels. Sometimes it's nice to just not have to deal with this stress.

9 years ago
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epicnes; I admire someone like you that has the " audacity " and the " guts " to go against the flow :-) Be aware however that you will be blacklisted by some that don't like to read what you wrote and (think) they can direct the flow but then again this will not have much impact on you as some of those that probably have blacklisted you do mostly invite only giveaways...

You are more than right in what you say and the thing is some of the very high levels that are " baring " the door to low levels by humping their giveaways in small, private invite only groups whilst at the same time entering and winning giveaways from the same low levels they want to avoid. How more saltless and how more ambiguous can this specific modus operandi be???

Also in SG discussions it's easely noticed that some of the very high levels think they own the place or think they have SG stocks and SG shares as some of them want the last word and are condescended towards the low levels and there's also's always the imminent threat of blacklisting if you say anything else than the proverbial " 'Yes sir " or " No sir " or " Thank you sir ' or " Your right sir" or " How high have I to jump for you sir " or "Don't do this or that " or " Do this and that " etc...

In the end some will blacklist you for just about any reason they can make up, can conjure up or can pull out off their behind .

Edit: for some " honcho's" that blacklisted me fear not, symmetry is regained :-)

9 years ago*
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In the interests of balance I feel it important to mention that there is at least one level 4 user also going about blacklisting people who don't agree with them for just about any reason they can make up, conjure up or pull out of their behind...

None of the problems on this site are confined exclusively to low or high level users.

9 years ago
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oh, he's also making whitelist elitist GAs for a closed group of people.

9 years ago
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I don't think blacklists are big enough for all of the high level oppressors. Power to the people!

9 years ago
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maybe we should make a suggestion to increase the blacklist limit :3

elitist pigs.

9 years ago
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No need to worry, the revolution will thin them out. One day all of steam gifts will be glorious equality with nothing but level 0 users not gifting games to each other without segregation or prejudice!

9 years ago
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MuIIins

maybe we should make a suggestion to increase the blacklist limit :3

elitist pigs.

Yes, the down thing is when you blacklist very easy is that there's no more room for all the others that don't "dance" , that don't " bow " and that don't " wipe of your behind" :-)

elitist dogs.

9 years ago*
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well, glady i don't quickly blacklist people for no reason, i only do it when people offend me for no reason and when i found out i'm in someone else's blacklist (like yourself).

9 years ago
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MuIIins

oh, he's also making whitelist elitist GAs for a closed group of people.

Oh the joy of selective and ambiguous writing and groundless loudmouthing...

For my birthday I made 5 games whitelist giveaways and at the very same time with another set of the very same 5 games did 5 global open giveaways. I guess you didn't see that or didn't want to see it... Maybe the concept of " global open " giveaways is a terrifying concept for you and some others like you....

I guess your body is running due south and your brains are going due north...

9 years ago*
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Oh the joy of selective and ambiguous writing and groundless loudmouthing...

thanks for describing your replies here.

now if you excuse me, i have to create more lv5+ GAs for the elitist lv10 bunch before they blacklist me.

9 years ago
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MuIIins

Oh the joy of selective and ambiguous writing and groundless loudmouthing...

thanks for describing your replies here.

now if you excuse me, i have to create more lv5+ GAs for the elitist lv10 bunch before they blacklist me.

Don't forget to go and hide in some of those shady, elite, invite only cabinets... Btw will you also making the very same giveaways in global open giveaways ? :-)

9 years ago*
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nope, too tired of making rerolls for people with regifts and multiple wins.

oh look, they are always lv0-3, what a coincidence. :3

9 years ago
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MuIIins

nope, too tired of making rerolls for people with regifts and multiple wins.

oh look, they are always lv0-3, what a coincidence. :3

Maybe if you didn't act like someone that just ate 6 sour lemons at once and that looks down on low levels then you just might get a better response.

All the levels 0-3 that won giveaways that I created have marked received and activated said games. All went well except for someone of higher level that said to me that sending him or her the key 1 day after giveaway ending is " to late " when I have by the book 7days.

I have had minimal rerolls (2 multiple wins). and then again after reroll entering the data in a new copy paste giveaway is taking only some minutes...

9 years ago
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i might be sour but i have a reason.

support tickets sent

stats:
70 tickets. 66 single user reports in total.
only 5 are lv4+, the rest are lv0-3.

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You got punted too?

I thought it was only for us machine gunning cats!

Meh, you're still on my list... That and $7 gets you coffee at Starbucks (maybe)

9 years ago
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KTS

Yeah, you pretty much described my approach to the forums. I've got little to say that others haven't already said in some way.

I notice that the guy stirring the pot here is Level 4. What happens when he reaches Level 5? Or Level 7? Will he spontaneously vaporize, from the collision of worlds in his belief system?

These are the questions that keep me awake at night.

Okay, not really.

No I'm not going to go "poof " in the air; then i will still doing giveaways like I do now, ofsetting whitelists with identical global opens where everyone low or high has a equal chance to enter and to win...

My "fear" is ofset by my "hope" that I dont change into a thing or become a thing like some of the things I encounter here on SG :-)

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KTS

No worries, LostSoulVL -- you didn't have to answer that. It's your business.

I didn't ask you directly, as it's out-of-line with my elitist tendencies. I could lose my membership card, and all the other perks associated with it.

Hopefully you'll read this before I have to delete it. I'm sorry, butt he high-level gestapo are just like that.

I would change that word gestapo you use into something more fair, more veracious and more realistic here: bullies

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Well calling a person a thing is certainly great.

As far as I know, if you stay true to your personnality, SG levels shouldn't change you.

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vicrabb

Well calling a person a thing is certainly great.

As far as I know, if you stay true to your personnality, SG levels shouldn't change you.

I have myselves been called things like: "steamgifts extreme communist"; "racist" and other very nice things. Strange you didn't post then your toughts about those insults and slurs to who that made them and that you only do it now.

Maybe you also didn't see the way some of those talk and act in the discussions?

Do you only see some things and don't see other things?

I don't hold it against you but's it's strange and one-sided...

I really hope i wont change :-)

9 years ago
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Maybe because I didn't see that part? I mean, I didn't read the whole thread. Besides, I couldn't determine if KTS or Mullins were being humorous and you were playing this game too or if they were serious about what they said.

Besides, like I've said, if you stay true to your personnality, you will not change. Be honest, even if you have to disagree with people. And if you're a high-level, remember that you were once a low level. That they deserve to win games too. And that not everyone is a leecher or a bot or an ungrateful winner. And that not everyone is blacklisting for a serious reason and that some are just blacklisting for the pure pleasure of blacklisting over every reason they can find, which is sad.

9 years ago*
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Edit: Posted on wrong post.

9 years ago*
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Bah, here, it's more a problem on my part as I've an hard time to detect jokes or irony. Even in my native language.

9 years ago
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Was it because of her triple iii's? Muiiins? :v

9 years ago
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heavenhairsixes

In the interests of balance I feel it important to mention that there is at least one level 4 user also going about blacklisting people who > don't agree with them for just about any reason they can make up, conjure up or pull out of their behind...

None of the problems on this site are confined exclusively to low or high level users.

Yeah, yeah that's why I found out that in this thread that 7 " elite " users blacklisted me without me having blacklisted them and there was even 1 on my whitelist, lol... That was a good laugh :-)

That happends when one doesn't bend in the same direction like most of the grass here...

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As with most things, you seem to be rather missing the point. Your own actions are still just as hypocritical regardless of how many people blacklist you, and I suspect that hypocrisy has far more to do with any blacklistings you incur than failing to 'bend in the same direction as most of the grass here.'

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7 "elite" users blacklisted you. Their right. Like you have a right to blacklist them.

And how many didn't blacklisted you? How many disagree with you without blacklisting you?

I agree with heavenhairsixes: you've probably been blacklisted for your attitude than a difference of opinion.

If I was agreeing with you in the first post you made, that some high-levels are acting as "assholes" - but an asshole is an asshole, regardless of his level -, I'm under the impression that you want absolutely prove that every high-level is an elitist.

Like I've said in an earlier comment: "people blacklisting are from all levels when you don't agree with them. And it's sometimes over a little thing." There are bigger threads here that produced a lot of blacklisting, regardless of the levels, because it was tied to beliefs/politics (I think about the gay marriage thread).

9 years ago
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i'm still waiting for a reason on why he blacklisted me.

9 years ago
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Sorry to disappoint you: he's not forced to give you one. You can only suppose.

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i suppose he's an hypocrite, since that's exactly what he's complaining about. :3

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If he doesn't want to give you one, it's his right. Whether he's an hypocrite or not.

Besides, did you ask him first? He is perhaps not knowing that you want a reason.

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vicrabb

7 "elite" users blacklisted you. Their right. Like you have a right to blacklist them.

And how many didn't blacklisted you? How many disagree with you without blacklisting you?

I agree with heavenhairsixes: you've probably been blacklisted for your attitude than a difference of opinion.

I have the fullest of right to blacklist those that blacklist me back and regain symmetry :-)

Some of those really " think " and "believe " they can say anything and do anything and get clean away with it because of their "level"

i don't agree with you and tend more to believe that your writing something just to be in the good graces of some here....

That's another thing here, the SG users that are aftraid to upset higher levels for multiple good reasons...

9 years ago
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Eeer I think you misunderstood me.

I never denied your right to blacklist them. I just wanted to say that you had the same rights as them. I realized now that my sentence could be understood under the way that I denied you a right.

And as far as I know, I'm a high-level that doesn't blacklist over disagreement or difference of opinions, because everyone is entitled to have one.

Besides, I hate upsetting someone whether it's a high or a low level. But bending to someone to stay in his good graces because he thinks the own the world? Never. Oh no, never. I hate that behavior.

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Yes I misunderstood,

I tought you said I coudn't blacklist them.

But then again; English is only my fourth language (speaking and understanding is one thing, thinking in another language and then writing it in English is another thing).

9 years ago
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Agreed. English isn't my native language too. You would speak to me in two another languages that I understand that I would have an hard time answering in these because I'm not used too.

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As a extra " note " concerning the "misunderstood " post.

When you handle a language that isn't your native language you don't get certain tonalities or underlaying things when people say things tot you or are talking about you.

So while I try to understand good and are holding myselves back to counter, sometimes it's difficult and I give them back some change on the dollar bills they gave to me.

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In that context, well, I have to answer differently from above.

You sound like me :p.

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Bah people blacklisting are from all levels when you don't agree with them. And it's sometimes over a little thing.

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you think this site is a charity organization, but it's not.
think of it as a social site, where you start by winning some stuff, commenting, giving back to the community, making friends, adding them on steam, and finally joining a group of people and sharing stuff with them.

is it that so bad?

9 years ago
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Today I learned : making some giveaways with level requirements to thank contributors = hating low lever users

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I'm an high-level, I've done a lot of public giveaways for everyone or for low levels. I'm still doing them. I'm doing giveaways also for my whitelist that includes all levels - without restriction of levels. I do groups giveaways, with rarely a level restriction (but it was BEFORE the whitelist feature). I do level restricted giveaways because I want to thanks people that contribute AND ONLY IN THAT CASE.

People are more taking at heart the ratio for blacklisting/whitelisting. People are more taking at heart the problem with the generic thanks associated in the mind with bots.

But I suppose that I'm falling under the category of the ones that have a problem of low-levels when I have none.

Like TempeteJoachim said, thanking people contributing isn't hate towards low-levels. However, I'm sorry that some members may have mistreated you - but an idiot is still an idiot, whether they're high or low level. Though you can hide all giveaways above your level. It's what I do and I'm happy like that.

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I hate everyone equally.

Bought this for a reason.

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It's really all about the ratio. Quite a lot of people blacklist based on ratio. Although a lot of people don't base it on that also. I know from experience. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Yes, it's very simple, it's a way for collectors to exchange games randomly, which adds some excitement compared to normal trading.

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No, contributor giveaways (especially high level ones) are exactly what I said (and others said), a way to bias giveaways so that those who already have the means to get the games will be able to play game exchange.

Sure, it's not exactly that, but it's much closer than "thanking givers". I think that the very idea that givers need to be thanked in this way is flawed. There's no reason for givers to have more chance of winning unless you treat SG as a gift exchange site.

(By the way, this has nothing to do with me wanting to enter giveaways. I haven't entered one on SG for about 2.5 years.)

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Last time I murdered a level 9 or above was, what, 5 months ago? So I'd say that the hatred level isn't that high.

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Damn, now I feel like releasing an 'SG gifter murder simulator' on Steam. I'd make millions!

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Actually it's not a matter of levels, it's a rather "leeching" thing. I do look down on users who won 500$ worth of games and only gave away 20$. I also blacklist most of those kind of users.

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As I said in the past, I'd love to have an "under x wins" condition for giveaways. It doesn't matter if the winner of 100 games has given 500 games or zero, I would still rather have games go to others.

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And yet, this condition will also be met with criticism, like the level system. I think that every system put in place will never satisfy everyone.

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Certainly people will want to refine it ("under x games in the past y months", value of games, comparison to number given), but I think that the base concept will be less controversial.

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Perhaps. But people will still whine about bots, about thanks, about "It's not right to judge on the ratio" which is already a reason of blacklisting by the way.

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Yeah, you're right.

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The thing is that what a person who enters a giveaway want is irrelevant. What should matter is the person who created a giveaway to have the right tools to filter who he wants to participate in his giveaways, and who he doesn't (also without being able to abuse the system). The problems with CV / level system, at least from my point of view, are: that a 15euro game which has been discounted to 50% has less value than a 20euro game which has been discounted to 90%; some products (like Leadwerks) are on bundlelist because their region-locked versions are dirt cheap; some games which were in bundles years ago give bundled CV if you giveaway them, even if you buy from the steam store; and that CV gained from a game drops or raises when the price of that game drops on Steam.

9 years ago*
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You're right, CV doesn't reflect very well how much a person invested in the gifts. It does reflect this in some way, though. It's flawed, but it's not completely worthless if you think that rewarding those who give is a valuable thing.

9 years ago
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but but

they can't afford games!

:3

9 years ago
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I have mixed feelings about those high lvls with very low entries giveaways. Does that count?

9 years ago
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Almost 4 years on this site and I haven't noticed any of this type of behaviour before. There's certainly a fair amount of hostility towards lower levels looking to take more than they receive though. I think anyone would have a problem with that regardless of their level.

9 years ago
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I'm not a forum regular but I haven't noticed this. As to me, my whitelist ranges from level 0 to 10. I don't really see reasons beyond envy and snobbery for that kind of clashes.
That being said, I have to admit I'm not a big fan of groups created with the sole purpose of boosting one's CV.

9 years ago
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That being said, I have to admit I'm not a big fan of groups created with the sole purpose of boosting one's CV.

You know you can and probably wil be blacklisted for saying this openly most probaly by those doing said things in their shady and shifty, purposely, created groups?

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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Evidence of the existence of such groups, we need evidence! (Seriously, I've not been invited yet, I'm feeling left out :( )

9 years ago
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I've still not see any real evidence of such groups. While there are closed groups with people who just gift inside the groups, those that I've seen have more been based around other forums and such (I'm in a group from another forum, that was how I ended up here, and I do gift some things there, but I don't just gift in it), but the intention there does not seem to be increasing CV so much as to give to other people from within the community.

9 years ago
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I don't have any hard evidence myself, but there are many shady looking groups with no description whatsoever that lead to profiles and giveaways conveniently won by the same 5-10 people every time. Some got suspended, a Support member made a post on that matter not long ago if memory serves.

9 years ago
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Ah, you mean fake GA groups, where you have someone gifting fake GAs to a limited amount of people, but who does not deliver the games? Yeah, I've seen people doing that (and reported them), but I would consider that a separate issue.

9 years ago
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One definite way to clear the shady and shifty veil of those said groups is if SG would have/add a feature that would show how many SG users are in said groups and who are those SG users in said groups and what kind of CV increase is going on in said groups. But some SG users would wet and do in their proverbial pants if such SG features would become available :-)

9 years ago
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It has to be said I've been fairly bemused and disturbed by some of the attitudes expressed in this thread. And as I currently have some free time on my hands I hope people will forgive me a long and rambling post.

The first thing that I'm baffled by is where some people seem to think high level users come from. I've seen terms like 'apartheid', 'elitists' and 'segregation' thrown around as if high level users are some corrupt ruling caste born into a life of idle luxury and unfair privilege - but the truth of the matter is high level users are just low level users who gave away some games. That is all. They don't have special powers and they aren't all in some kind of a secret club together.

Exactly like the low level users that they started off as high level users don't all act the same, they aren't all friends with each other and they don't necessarily even like each other. Like other groups of users they clearly range from complete assholes to veritable saints with most somewhere in between. Stereotyping such a broad group in any way is no better than stereotyping all low level users as 'leechers' - which certain people would clearly be surprised to learn isn't actually a very common opinion.

It should be obvious that not every high level user is a boon to the community and not every low level user is a hindrance - so how about just judging individuals by their actions rather than having some kind of a class war mentality and making sweeping and offensive generalisations about thousands of people?

The second thing that baffles me is why some people seem to think that a different and higher set of standards should apply to high level users, which increasingly appears to the case. Consider the following example (or not, as the case may be).

Most of my own giveaways so far have been in the form of trains posted in discussions. That was because I enjoyed other trains that I saw and I discovered it saved me a lot of problems as people who paid attention to the forums were far more likely to follow instructions and activate games. I gave away hundreds of games in this manner. Most of the games given away were bundle games as I had a lot of spare bundle keys.

I set contributor levels from 0-5 to try and make sure there was something for everyone. Most of the games were given away at level 2 as I didn't think it unreasonable that most people who met the requirements for the site would be able to achieve that, and most of the nicer games were towards the higher levels to reward good contributors. Looking back I gave away stuff from Dishonored GOTY at level 2 to Alien: Isolation at level 5. I still think none of this unreasonable and most of the reaction received was positive.

But as my own level increased criticism also increased even though I was doing the same thing. Apparently it is fine for a low level user to give away bundle games to low level users but for a high level user to do the same thing can be taken as thinking 'low level scum will enjoy just any bundle crap'. Actually, what I was thinking was that the games not be the most expensive, but people can enter if they want them and ignore them if they don't - but whatever, the point is what do some people expect me to do?

Because I have given away a certain amount of games do people now feel that I'm wealthy enough that if I don't entirely stock my trains with GTA V, Witcher 3, Fallout 4 I'm taking the piss? Should I only give bundle games to other high level users to avoid offending low level users with my meagre offerings? (For the record my solution to the dilemma is that I have joined that well known high level circle-jerk Bundle Quest, where I assume it is OK to give away bundle games.)

Apparently some users hate it when they think high level users might be 'flaunting their wealth'. But apparently they also hate it when high level users are not 'flaunting their wealth'. Some users hate that high level users are 'elitist'. But also some users hate it when high level users are doing the same things as low level users. I could ramble on about double standards for a while, but I'd like to cover a third point at least briefly - exclusion.

After a string of bad experiences making public giveaways I decided some form of exclusion was necessary. It is something I have experimented with and invited discussions on and it is also a subject that is clearly very controversial and that people have very different opinions about. Public giveaways + blacklisting always seemed potentially fairest option to me - being the most targeted and excluding the fewest people. But it is also the option that causes by far the most upset.

Maybe it is something that has a bad rep because of the amount of people telling each other they are blacklisted in discussions (something I never saw the point of myself, especially as I have seen users who have never made a giveaway in years on the site and high level users who only make private group giveaways telling other people they are blacklisted even though it will clearly make no difference ever). Maybe I'm just missing something of the impact as I don't even enter that many giveaways to start with.

On the other hand whitelist giveaways cause far less upset and simply for that reason I think I will be focusing on those in the future - even though that to me seems strange as they are also actually far more exclusionary.

Giveaways with level requirements are clearly another form of exclusion, and I can only say that although I am often grateful for some lovely giveaways I see I suspect that many lower users who think that higher level users are all participating in some kind of grand circle-jerk would overall be disappointed with the number of giveaways available compared to the money spent to gain access.

Finally that wonderful blunt instrument that seems to be so popular for bludgeoning those vile elitist scum with - small private group giveaways! Which actually seem to exist across all levels of users and are simply a tool no more 'good' or 'bad' than the groups and users wielding them.

Or is that really a finally, or is just not making giveaways actually the biggest exclusion of them all? Sure there are plenty of low level users who clearly just can't afford much stuff or live in countries that put them at a serious disadvantage, and what is the point of this site if not for a few such folks to win games they otherwise wouldn't have a chance at? But for every one of those terrible high level users we keep hearing about who take from the poor while only gifting to maintain their ratios in their precious private giveaway groups, I've seen at least a dozen level 1 users who have been here for years, gifting only one piece of DLC, winning many giveaways - and also have three times as many games as me and all the latest AAA titles.

How about a few more of those folks contribute? But I guess it is easier to just tell the people who do contribute how they should and shouldn't contribute all the damn time just because they are more visible.

As ever, I can type far more quickly than I can think and I can apologise if this has once again degenerated from something that started out with a point to some sort of stream-of-consciousness vent...

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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9 years ago
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Congrats to have managed such a long post that resume what many of us think.

9 years ago
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That's 10 minutes of my life flushed away in the toilet...

In all my life I have not seen such a deplorable level of subjective, self-entitled, self-imposed, nearsighted, mostly one-sided, worthless, buddies protecting and unveracious dribble-drabble.

I don't know if your retired or working but know that you could have very nice career opportunities as a reporter/journalist working for Al Jazeera...

Please be the first one that books a holiday to the planet Pluto with Virgin Galactic....

Also don't remind me to not read your dribble-drabble ever again

9 years ago*
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Just a piece of friendly advice - in order to avoid looking quite so foolish in future I suggest you actually find out what some of those terms actually mean before using them again!

9 years ago
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go rebellion go

View attached image.
9 years ago
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9 years ago
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I saw Billy Idol live one time and I thought he was going to suck - but he was bloody brilliant!

9 years ago
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This is the comment this thread needed.

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9 years ago
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i agree with that, yes.

btw,
long live lv11 users!

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9 years ago
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to lv11 and beyond

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9 years ago
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This is...a read i couldn't even say myself. A big kudos from a person who memorized the bad times.

9 years ago
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Nicely said, mostly. I think that there shouldn't be hard feelings towards either high levels or low levels. I don't like CV, but I don't think there's any reason to start blaming anyone for their behaviour, regardless of level, unless they do something that's against the site's rules.

9 years ago
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I believe if people are going to have hard feelings they should be towards individuals and not levels! And I think I'm starting to suspect that the site would get along just as well, if not better, without CV. It seemed like it could be a useful tool but at this stage I'm thinking it is maybe causing a lot of unnecessary problems and disputes than such a tool is worth. But that is another rambling post for the next time I'm bored poopless waiting for a delivery guy to arrive...

9 years ago
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I've been thinking this since CV was introduced. There were groups before that for rewarding those who gave a lot, but making it diretly affect giveaways really made the forums uglier.

9 years ago
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Im mid level, i suppose i should hate everyone equally, right? :o

9 years ago
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Go for it, buddy.

9 years ago
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And symmetry is regained again :-)

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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9 years ago
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xScreaMx

I am seriously thinking about writing a script which hides your comments. Don't you have better stuff to do than just shit into the soup again and again and again?

Is this your " angle " to belong or to get accepted into a certain group? Are these your rights of passage to get accepted into that fold? Please be aware that neither your threats, your loudmouth or insluts make a impression on me :-)

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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Closed 9 years ago by Fnord.