As long as people continue to buy their DLCs why should they stop?
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Amen. It's not up to them to balance our checkbooks.
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Game of the Year has never been a guarantee of "We're no longer supporting this game".
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supporting =/= releasing as much DLC blind fanboys will accept. quantity does not mean quality, and there are developers out there that still support games after releasing a complete or GOTY version of their game by fixing bugs or in the case of cd projekt, even releasing entire rebalancing patches.
people that think gearbox's behaviour is acceptable and supporting it by buying it are those that are making the industry flood with crappy games with truckloads of DLC.
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I will agree that Gearbox has been lax in fixing some serious bugs in their game, and its somewhat irritating that thy continue to develop content without addressing, say, the issues with Zero. I don't see anyone here complaining about that, though, just about how evil they are for making us poor consumers want something and then not giving it to them for free with a blowjob on top for good measure.
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If I enjoy it, in what way am I blind? To be fair, I have not yet purchased this turkey hunt, and I will wait until I feel like playing it to do so, but I don't see how it is evil for them to give me the option to do so. My understanding is that their original intention was to only release a few DC on the scale of the Halloween and Thanksgiving ones, but the massively positive reception of the game and an (apparently very accurate, given the sales figures) analysis of the demand led them to create DLC on a much larger scale. Which I like. And some other people like. Its okay if you don't like it, but I have yet to see any of this logic you speak of indicating why exactly responding to their fans is unacceptable behavior. If we want to get down to the nitty gritty, as a publicly traded corporation, their ONLY legal obligation is to maximize profits. Even those companies who have business practices that do seem objectionable are wrong only in that they misread their fans. If you think this should be otherwise, you are living in a dream world. Perhaps you should purchase the company, then they can live in your la-la land too. After all, putting out a nearly identical version every year without any notable changes is a WAAAY better way to go. THATS not manipulative AT ALL, no sir. CoD, we love you! Madden, we love you! A fanboy I may be, although I prefer to think of myself as a FanMan, but I dont see how buying things I like and get lots of enjoyment out of is illogical, or blind.
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i was talking specifically about the hyperbolic statement of people who disagree with you wanting "it all free with a blowjob on top".
and of course they want to maximise profits, but they're not a fucking corporation. if they want to be a corporation they should make baked goods where no one gives a shit if they use lower quality ingredients in order to make more dosh.
but they're not, they develop fucking video games, which requires some level of quality and consistency or people are going to lose loyalty towards you, unless they're idiots or mobile phone "gamers" who spend hundreds of dollars on bollocks like, for instance, more plants, plant slots and keys for plants versus zombies 2.
you are what's causing companies to do that shit, you're sending them the wrong message and if you think that they should consider profits over all else then there is something seriously wrong with you, in my opinion.
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Er, maybe you should look up "corporation" before you talk to the grown ups about economics, kid.
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hilarious... only not. you're the one insulting me for no reason, and you're apparently american... it's kind of sad you're here insulting me. shouldn't you be with your family, or you know... friends? how about you enjoy your miserable existence.
what i actually meant was, that you are looking at gearbox through rose tinted glasses. i'm seeing them for what they really are, making me the cynic here.
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Raid bosses= even more fun. Come fight Master Gee with me, Ay Ess Ay Pee!
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Indeed I do... Sorry if they are too hard for you.
Edit: I shouldn't be so glib though, I know they can be a pain but the potential for teamwork and really getting into the different characters roles and making use of the unique and interesting gear is really what has kept my interest in the game alive. I can imagine that that would not appeal to a lot of people, but to me it is one of the greatest experiences available in gaming. i'd trade a hundred bullshit CoD railfights for one Voracidious.
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I'd enjoy and participate in the raiding more, if the loot wasn't public and have people steal everything afterwards. It's like the only way to reliably kill most of these is with a party and the loot system is so bad for this, probably my number one change for the sequel.
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IT'S JUST A DLC, it adds nothing to the actual base story. You can CHOOSE TO HAVE IT OR NOT. KEYWORD: CHOOSE. Not having it won't ruin your Borderlands 2 experience, seriously I can't there is a forum that is complaining about this...
Also why are they charging for it? A wise man once said: if you're good at something, never do it for free xDD
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So... we are mad at them for listening to their fanbase? Cool story bro.
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I have paid less than 30$ for Borderlands 2, season pass and all the content dlc + both extra characters. If you think the developers should abandon their game completely just because they released GOTY version, then you should start using your brain and think what nonsense you're spouting.
P.S remember that what you buy is your choice. Don't support the DLC practice? Don't buy them. Simple as that.
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It doesn't matter how much you spend money on it, sale is still a sale. I never said they should abandon the game after releasing the GOTY, they should stop pumping out more DLCs for the sheep.
After releasing a collection they should still stay in contact with the fans (obvious, isn't it?), balancing and future projects. When you're done with something, you don't stand around gluing feathers to it so it would look like there's something more.
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Yeah, but if you write a book, and its super popular, sometimes you write a short story too, before you get to the sequel. When you release an album, sometimes you put out a song or two before the next LP. If you think their game is a kid's art project made of cardboard and feathers, you should probably just play something else rather than whine about it for several hours on a message board the dev's will never see.
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No, I carefully consider whether the content is worth the money, decide that $2.50 (half the price of a sandwich, a third of the price of a movie, far less than it costs me to take your mom out on date) is an excellent investment for several hours of solo gameplay and a few more with friends, and pay it. If the 1100+ hours I've spent in BL2 isnt worth the hndred bucks or so i spent on it, I dont know what money is for. (I've got quite a backlog on steam, as I imagine most of us here do, yet I keep coming back to BL2. My tendency to purchase stupid bundles and give away the extra keys to random assholes like you might be adding to the industries decline, sure, but supporting the devs of my favorite game is not something that seems regrettable to me) You don't see me buying every identical CoD release, or pre-ordering games based on hype. That is why the industry is shit. I hope you enjoy making assumptions about my gaming hbits, though, I'm sure making assumptions about obviously nonsensical things will take you far in life.
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Haha you found it! I'm sorry for being rude and stuff this really isn't that important to me I hope you have an excellent time doing whatever it is you DO like to do, I just don't see how a company selling me things I like is hurting you.
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Yes, making money to feed your family and fund future development is bad business. They should live on the street and give us everything for free. Supporting a fan base that wants more content is the definition of good business practice.
You know why the Sims (and BL2) has so much DLC? People keep buying it. End of story.
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No, if they have this many ideas, they should actually move on to the next game. Instead, they are choosing to become another Street Fighter IV or Sims 3.
Next thing you know, games are gonna be half released and then they expect the other half of the game to be paid for in DLC. Because people keep paying for DLC and encouraging. Its the business practice behind it, not the fact about the actual content.
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Yeah you are clearly super educated with your highly effective slippery slope argument. your English is fine MSE.
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Yes, you did, you said if they have this many ideas they should make a new game. The DLC we are arguing about is a $2.50 turkey hunt. His interpretation of your statement is entirely valid. Are you using google translate to try to communicate here? I recommend you stop doing so, it isn't working.
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So you want the dlc's to be free? Or would you rather there be no more new content?
No one forces you to buy dlc's, if people want more content, people are happy more content is released. The dlc's are very reasonably priced, especially if you wait for a sale, that seems to happen once every few months.
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The community wants more content. They spend time and resources, all of which cost money, to build more content so those that want more content can have more content. In order to not go out of business and to pay the people that spent their time and resources on the content they charge for said content. People who want new content pay money for new content. People who don't want it don't pay for it (and apparently whine on the internet).
Why does new DLC upset you? And don't just say "milking" because 1) That's not what's happening 2) that's not an explanation. Use your words (real ones preferably).
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Because DLC is a horrible business practice. Most of you are probably to young to remember, but there was a point in time when there was EXPANSIONS of games released FOR FREEEEE and they did well enough to feed families. So don't use that shitty excuse also.
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Crappy expensive DLC is a horrible business practice. Pre-release DLC is a horrible practice. DLC created after the game has been released is extra content, which in no way makes your game any different. Expansions for games were never free (maybe with few exceptions), in fact - expansions were basically a bundle of DLC sold at a full games price. No one hated on expansions, because people weren't spoiled and/or stupid like they are now.
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exactly, look how much you highlighting about those expansion packs being for FREEEEE, ayou're just a cheapskate. If you don't want it don't buy it, if you do, then do so. It's only $3. I myself am not buying this thanksgiving one and I don't dislike BL2 developers for making it either. It's just another story, which you choose to have or not.
Also, that idea of games being half made and then having to pay for the other half. Already done in AC 2, which many people complained about. But this isn't half the game, so why you are complaining about something optional is beyond me...
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Reality check, it's happened before Borderlands 2 was even released. As I said look at Assassin's Creed 2 where they made players pay extra for the last level. At least BL2 gives you the full story just by buying the base game. Stop worrying so much
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What expansions were free? I remember a whole lot of $30 "expansion" discs at EB sure dont remember many free ones.
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their was an expansion for an expansion that was free, GTA london 1964 i think it was a pc only expansion to GTA london which is one thing i wish was on steam, seems odd that I-IV and IV episodes are on steam but no london :(, also one or 2 neverwinter nights modules that were intended to paid downloads were free iirc
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What studios did that? How many are still left or haven't been through bankruptcy, or had to be sold?
I can think of a lot if paid expansions. World of Warcraft, all 4 of the Age of Empires games (including a second expansion for 2 that previously was a free mod), all the Command & Conquer games had paid expansions, all the D&D games (Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate 1&2), and many more all had paid expansions.
Lets look at Age of Empires 2 and it's expansion. For close to $30 (and their wasn't sales like there are now) you got 5 civs, 4 campaigns, and some other faff. Now Borderlands 2. For $30 (or $8 every couple of months) you get 4 campaigns and the first level cap increase. Sounds pretty similar. You know why one is called an expansion and one is called DLC? Because in 2000 you couldn't download it. Now it's 2013 and the only way you can get expansions is by downloading it. Hence DownLoadable Content (DLC).
It's true that some, a minority for sure, exploit the DLC system to release incomplete games but you're just arguing syntax because you'd have to be crazy to say BL2 was incomplete at launch.
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Yeah seriously are these kids aware that the internet hasn't always been a thing? Have they heard of "modems? I suspect they have never heard the siren song of the dial-up connection, or tasted the bitter fruit of an eternally buffering 30-second video.
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On a recent sale (which happens quite often) you could get the full experience (vanilla + season pass + content dlc's that aren't included in season pass) for around 25$, so it's not really that much of a money sink as people make it out to be.
You should be happy that you bought a game and more content is being released, aka - not letting the game die. Your gaming experience doesn't change by not having the newest dlc's, but you do get MORE of the game when you buy them. Or maybe your idea is that once they release GOTY, they should abandon the game completely?
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I know, its so terrible when they dump their disgusting load of many-hour-long enjoyable-and-original gameplay on my unwilling face... (What the hell are you doing on r/Borderlands!? Go do something you enjoy, for god's sake!)
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tbh, the new dlc (the thanksgiving one) isn't great, but that's personal opinion, but I don't dislike 2K for making the DLC
BTW, I think Keybox is saying people that are complaining about the new DLC are worse than those one r/borderlands. I think you misread the intention of his post
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I'm pretty sure IT's saying that we think the dlc is good (applauding) where in fact IT and only IT knows that what we think is delicious cake is in fact a steaming pile of shit, and while we think we enjoy that cake, IT is valiantly alerting us to the fact it is poop. Well guess what Keybox, I guess I like poop. Live with it.
And I'm not going to buy the Turkey Hunt until such time as I will enjoy playing it, if ever, but it hardly amounts to face-pooping-on to give me the OPTION to buy it, does it? This was made in America, friends, land of many choices. It is your choice to buy it or not. Believe it or not, they made the dlc for fans, not people who think they are poopers.
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exactly, I totally agree, it's an option, nothing more. The fact people are mad about something they don't have to do/buy is ridiculous.
And yeah, from reading from Keybox other comments in this topic, I guess he thinks we are all just blind fanboys...
As I said Keybox, I am not buying this new DLC, but just cos they made doesn't mean they need to get heat for it
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Im sorry for assuming your gender. The original post is about the new dlc, is all. I encourage you to do whatever you want, just don't tell me I'm supporting something terrible by doing what i want. Or do, whatever.
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Developers aren't... businesses? Who is allowed to try to make money? I'm sure Valve didn't have profit in mind when they developed TF2, being a charity and all... I wish I could join you in your world full of altruistic artists working only out of passion and a desire to make sure you have nothing to whine about.
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Boyfriend... riiiiiight. Anyway, what did you think you were buying? Do these DLC somehow reduce the value of your purchase? Inquiring minds want to know.
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"boyfriend... riiiight"... u srs? or are you actually that bitter?
we knew what we were buying, and we knew the season pass was for 4 major DLC only, we didn't know that they had more than that planned however, nor did we realise that they decided to outsource their DLC. gearbox had promised PC gamers that they would improve things from the original game, and they barely bothered. they also said that the DLC would be the same quality as that of the original game, which it wasn't.
so yes, the DLC made us feel ripped off.
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I'm with the TC on this one. GOTY editions have always been the saving grace for us people limited to retail purchases that want every possible tidbit of the game so it really sucks to see that change. Makes me feel like I might as well just pirate the thing since otherwise I'm guaranteed to be limited to 80% of the game's content and though that's a high percentage I still end up feeling cheated if I actually pay money for that 80%.
By the way EA where the hell is my Mass Effect Complete Edition that includes ALL DLC?
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GOTY edition includes all the content DLC that were released at the time. You're not getting 80%, you're getting 100% of the GOTY, and if you are willing to pay extra, you can get 110% or more by adding more content. If you didn't know these new DLC existed, you wouldn't even care, because your game is NOT affected by it in any way.
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And yet, the people have spoken, and they have said, thank you for the cheaper package gearbox, please give us more content too! You know how they said this? With dollars. With cash money. Dolla dolla bills yall. Somehow that little paper voice is more compelling than your sticky keyboard.
Edit: and nearly all of the DLC content was developed post-release, whatever you might prefer to believe, so I dont understand the distinction you are making. Still, next time I get paid and it's on sale I'll pick up the game for you, you can let me know if it is worthwhile or not.
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I haven't really enjoyed many of their games, so I don't much care. If I wanted to encourage them to do otherwise, I'd go buy some of their games.
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And then they'll release another expansion over that!
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If that expansion adds enough content to be worth the money, I'll be happy to buy that as well. I buy content, not the concept of DLC. Good DLC is worth the asking price, it's like a mini-edition of the game.
Hey, what if devs released cut-down versions of games, containing just the DLC, at a small mark-up? Owners of the base game could then buy it as DLC for a lower price. Imagine if Far Cry 3 and Blood Dragon worked this way, so that FC3 owners could get Blood Dragon for half-price.
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I obviously meant 100% of all the game's content ever....not 100% at a certain point in time.
And what exactly did you misunderstand about "limited to retail"? That means no, I can't pay extra to go higher...so all future DLC effectively lowers the percentage of game I purchased and that annoys me because you always miss out on something. Sure it might be nothing crucial, but your knowledge of that game's world is now incomplete, there are references and potential side-character development you'll now know nothing about, exactly as much as a person who's never played the game at all...and that's absolutely infuriating after you thought you got everything...and GOTY packages were made to prevent that.
Gearbox should have waited with the GOTY till they were certain they were done with Borderlands2...
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Do people still play the base campaign online? BL2 reports 10k players daily, but I find only 4-5 games in a whole day or only 3-4 different people join my game. I have the base game + Mechromancer.
It seems to me, that most people play the DLC maps/quests.
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People say the best gear and entertainment is in Tiny Tina's DLC, so I assume everyone's hanging out in there. Or Campaign of Carnage.
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I think the issue is just with the matchmaking, I have all DLC and sometimes have trouble finding games.
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Not really surprised. I never expected the GOTY to have more content than the base game + season pass, and they said it quite clearly way before release that the season pass is for the FIRST four major DLC, and strongly implied that if the game is successful, they will make and release more, which won't be included in the packages available to buy at release. No doubt there will be a complete package available once they stop releasing expansions. While often the case, GOTY is not by definition something that includes everything that has and/or will be ever made for the game. Also, if you're feeling mislead, how about people who bought Europa Universalis III Complete, only to find it doesn't include the last two major expansions?
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Omg this game's such a ripoff! I bought the game and its season pass just to find out that it only includes the "big" dlcs and no costumes and stuff and no additional playable characters. Now they release GOTY which is the final thing usually and they intend to pull another dlcs outta their butt?
Gearbox got a hard time from players for finishing and releasing games that they didn't develop, they actually just finished what other people started with Duke Nukem Forever and Aliens colonial marines and the games weren't even that bad. This DLC crap is what people should give them hard time for.
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How does the release of more material decrease the value of the material you have already purchased? Grow up.
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What? You should grow up, there was no mention of "decreasing value" there.
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Sorry maybe I am misreading you, aren't you saying that you feel ripped off because you purchased some content, and then they made more content? That is called "adding value"
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No, i'm feeling ripped off with season pass not including all the dlcs and "final" edition not being final.
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Huh, where are these quotes on final coming from? Your head, friend. It's only in your head.
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The season pass was never intended to include all the DLC, and you shouldn't have expected it to. It told you exactly what was in it when you purchased it, and in fact, they threw in something that wasn't listed originally (the level cap upgrade).
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It only includes the "big" dlcs, like you say. The expensive DLCs. It doesn't include any of the cosmetic items, but those do nothing anyway. This GOTY edition contains no fluff. No horse armor.
I agree with you on Aliens Colonial Marines, but I gotta say that Duke Nukem Forever was exactly what I expected it to be, and that expectation was mostly cemented since 2000. I'm sad that it took so long to arrive, but except for regenerating health it's exactly what I wanted. I just think that people expected DNF to stand alongside modern FPS ideals, and it was never trying to do that.
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I already mentioned above about how the pricing of the DLC shouldn't be too much of an issue, considering how frequently it goes on sale (console gamers, however, not getting as lucky), but I do want to comment about two of their more recent DLC packs - the Headhunter missions and the Vault Upgrade 2.
While the Headhunter mission packs are being released at a reduced price ($3), personally I feel that they should approach them in a similar fashion to the way that Dungeon Defenders did their "seasonal" missions; For the first week that the DLC is released, offer it as a free download to those that already own the game. Then, after said time has expired, they would set the official price. This incentivizes current owners, and encourages future buyers to potentially buy it before timed dlc is no longer "free".
The Vault Hunter Upgrade 2, however, I do see as a "cash-in". While the other DLC is fair in price, adding additional levels, and scaling enemies accordingly doesn't seem like something that should require an additional purchase, especially after they already charged for something similar with the first Vault Hunter Upgrade. I feel that this DLC should not exist at all, and should come as a "free update" to those that already own the first Vault Hunter Upgrade.
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I can see that, it does seem odd that release wasn't included in anything. The turkey hunt, however, does not seem quite as, uh, essential.
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Don't know who made this decision, Gearbox or 2K? But it seems that many games published by 2K have some things in common. 1. Plenty of DLC. 2. Release DLC over previous version. I don't make that up. Mafia 2 has 7 DLCs, CIV 5 has about 15 DLCs. Also, 2K released 2 DLCs and an expansion pack after CIV5 GOTY, then made it gold edition. But after gold edition, 2K release brave new world DLC. How will they name this game this time? and more DLC? So BL2 has the same thing. DLCs came out after season pass. Then they made it GOTY. And more of them are coming out after GOTY. I think they would call it BL2 gold...
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GOTY technically does not = "complete"
It means "Game of the Year" i.e. some hopefully reputable source (looking at your Dead Island) gave them an award as Game of the Year.
Usually a year after a game is out and such results are made, development on a game has ceased, so the GOTY edition has all that will ever be made for it.
Not every game ceases development of new content a year or so after release, so we have games like Borderlands 2, Civilization 5, and others who still have new content after a release promoting their "GOTY" status.
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I don't care if they keep releasing stuff after GOTY... it's not like GOTY is a "guaranteed to have all DLC" version, it's just that a game is so good they are releasing it again with some advantages!
HOWEVER I do miss the time when minor updates and improvements were given to customers for free
FTL advanced is coming next year, entirely free, and it adds more stuff to the main game than most DLCs released nowadays
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I imagine they will release an "ultimate" or "complete" edition at some point. If that doesn't include every essential piece of DLC me and Randy will surely have words. Or at any rate, I'll have words. Not that he gives a damn, cause I already done paid him.
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As a fan of Civilization V, I'm laughing right now (through my strong alcoholic beverage to dull the pain) after the 18th DLC for it just came out, over 2 years after the GOTY edition came out. Fuck it, it's a good game, and most of the DLC is fun and adds lots of content. My wallet is not as big a fan, however.
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Bye bye GOTY. From now on you cannot be sure you have the whole game or just some bone. People are simply against their own money with supporting this!
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