Will Steam follow with same foot steps anytime soon?
i still hate their client and their overpriced games
slapping a better refund option doesnt make me wanna magically buy more games from them
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Overpriced games? God, Steam got us so used to sales....
and that depends on the region. In my country, Origin prices are equal to retail prices, while Steam prices are twice as high as retail prices, if not more.
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On the titles you'd never look at otherwise, maybe. But the "important" games and triple A? Not once I've seen them cheaper on Steam than in retail. Alright, Max Payne 3 and Skyrim. But that'd be it.
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Every new release game has had a discounted price within a month or two of being released on steam. And if you can't wait until then, greenman gaming and other sites sometimes offer the games discounted before they even come out. I preordered Far Cry 4 on greenman gaming for $47. Saw Mortal Kombat, Battlefield Hardline etc on there for similar prices and that was all before release.
As for Origin, my biggest issue is all these companies wanting their own Client. I don't want to have all these other programs open and online with them all wanting to auto update games while I'm trying to play an online game. Windows already is a pain with wanting to connect to auto update, flash auto updates, etc. I only owned the free games on Origin until the Humble Bundle came along. The only other game on there I'd consider buying would be the C&C bundle when it goes on sale for $5 again. I wouldn't buy any of their new releases on there since they can be found elsewhere for cheaper.
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It takes a -30% to -50% discount to get "important" games CLOSE to retail prices in my region. I'm deadly serious. It takes YEARS for Steam to discount titles like Shadow of Mordor (recently discounted -50%, to 25€ - in comparison, regular retail price in my region is 20€) or Borderlands below retail price level. Heck, even -50% BlOps was still twice as expensive as retail BlOps, and this is NOT a unique occurance. I used to get my Steam games from GMG, but they switched their pricing model and now have identical prices to Steam.
I agree about having a multitude of clients installed, but what'cha gonna do. You either accept it and it's a very mild annoyance, or you refuse to buy games unless they're on Steam, and then get a monopoly and poison the market. OR you wait for a software binding them all together, but that's not happening due to many legal, technical and practical reasons.
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What steam offers is mostly developer side, the customer front-end is just a good showcase.
The steam runtime is a complete development environment that guarantees developers that their game will work on targeted systems (windows, mac os x, linux), steam workshop is another runtime that facilitates a lot modding (again setting good standards)
Origin offers mostly just a DRM.
The good about steam does not end, because even if you don't want your games on steam, you can (and I really suggest to) still use their runtime because it's free and sets good standards for computer gaming.
About prices I don't know what to say, EU is split in just 2 areas Poland should be on the same slice as Italy is, for example, which probably it is not fair by any means. That may improve in the future, maybe... still Steam > Origin an almost any front, not to mention DRM-free, that as long as standards are respected, is above any client past or future (GOG is from Poland right?)
Also, sorry if I push this "standards" thing, but I'm extremely pissed when AAA+ games have a crapload of issues with almost anything PC related (and often even design related) while indie games, humbly created respecting standards work flawlessly on win/mac/linux... EA games are top of the list on that, just saying.
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You're mixing Valve, the corporation, and Steam, the store, and also Origin the store, and EA the publisher. These are NOT interchangeable.
Workshop is good, yes. But mods alone don't atone for the horrifying level of cutsomer unfriendlyness Steam offers. Blatant and extreme abuse of ToS laws in US, turning a deaf ear to laws elsewhere, customer service is beyond shitty, and prices suck, even on sales. EA may be releasing bad and/or unfinished games, but at least if I have a problem as an Origin consumer, it's always solved quickly.
Steam is full of bloatware-type features. I want the library, family sharing, and store page. I don't need or ever use any of the other ten thousand features done better by other things I already use and won't stop using.
Steam is NOT DRM free. Steam itself is a DRM, and on top of that all games have their own DRM. There was one game, probably one of the Assassin Creed's, where I counted 7 layers of DRM.
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Steam is not a DRM, but it does offer a DRM option to publishers. There's a number of games on Steam that are DRM-free for which Steam only act as a distribution platform / auto-patcher.
I guess the pricing issue is dependent on where you live, because I get the best prices from Steam most of the time. And the regular sales make it cheaper than anything else. (Plus, there are so many retail sources for Steam keys that you can always find a good deal on almost every game.) And AFAIK, the publisher is the one responsible for setting the price on the storefront anyway.
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Publisher isn't 100% related here. It's Steam's idiotic regions and stupid currency politics. After all, the publisher has as much hand in setting retail prices as he has on Steam.
Steam client is DRM. You can't play your games without going through it or resorting to trickery. It's as simple as that.
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The various regions would need so reworking because so "poor" countries are stuck in the same region as other with higer prices.
There is a good number of DRM-free games on Steam that do not require the Steam client to play once downloaded. It is the choice of the publisher to use the provided DRM option or not.
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There are "DRM-free" games, but you always have to do a "trick", even if it's as simple as moving files elsewhere. By your logic the old CD requirement isn't DRM, because you can store an ISO on your HDD.
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Only for some of them. Many will work by simply starting the main executable right from the steamapps folder. As I said, the option is there, it's up to developers/publishers to implement it as they see fit.
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There are very, VERY few games like that, and that's only when publisher explicitly demands it. By default, most will go through Steam anyway.
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Never said steam is DRM free (it's really far from it) I said steam provides more than just DRM and achievement integration.
I agree steam has no support whatsoever, any question you ask you get replies like, try to reload the steam client, even if you were talking about unicorns; but I have to say that I never had issues with the steam client itself and game problems I had (both on AAA+ titles) where developers fault, not steam-related.
The DRM layers you're talking about is EXACTLY what steam is trying to eliminate, setting up, again, good standards for games industry and development.
Lastly, you can separate Valve from Steam, sure, but I think that what Valve does toward the games industry (not about their game development branch) is quite related to steam, even if it's just a bunch of tools to help developers.
EDIT: Ah, Origin prefers browser games to linux games (there is no linux support even for games that were ported to linux), for me this is already a red card.
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Ah, I thought "That may improve in the future, maybe... still Steam > Origin an almost any front, not to mention DRM-free," referred to Steam, not later mentioned GOG. My bad.
Steam is not working towards eliminating DRM layers. It just added one on top (the client). One and a half, actually (necessity to go through online before playing or entering offline mode). Even tying games to your account is a form of DRM, so we've got two and a half. Heck, Steam supports the worst DRM solutions like Tages or SECU-ROM. It's as simple as that.
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I don't understand what you said regarding steam support for Tages or Secu-ROM, they don't support any DRM except their own. It's developers that eventually add their own DRM: all the useless DRMs that were used in the past to beat piracy, before Steam did.
And yes, steam DRM is unforgiving, internet is required for the first activation and to activate any new machine, still I have to say that even my grandma uses internet nowadays, I really don't see the problem in that.
Providing a solid DRM to developers means they don't have to implement their own, spending money for DRM solutions and such. If someone wants to pirate a game they will do that anyway, no matter how many layers of DRM you set up. Also, after steam launched, with a (finally) fair pricing policy and system, no one actually cares about games piracy anymore and that's the reason GOG exists.
Btw I really hope netflix gets larger and better so that the whole world will have a steam like client for video entertainment...
Anyway, to get back to the topic, from a superficial point of view Steam and Origin are almost the same and Origin lets you play for free more often, probably, but below the surface only Steam and GOG are doing something for the developers and/or the games industry, Origin is just profit and support.
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Only GOG does something. History says all the support from Steam, like workshop, lead to a cash-out in one way or another, like the recent mod fiasco.
They may be doing stuff for developers, but we're not developers. We're consumers. We have no knowledge or need for that. Valve isn't a glorious saviour, it's a profit-focused company like EA or any other. However, Steam is by a mile the most unfriendly to consumers
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Origin offers mostly just a DRM.
Heh. There are games you can continue to play after removing the Origin client from your computer. I've seen it required for the online games, but a friend that plays only the single player games never keeps it. No problems for him.
So yeah, it just acts as a client and to sort out the online connections, not embedded DRM like Steam is with most games. :P
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Force Unleashed 2 -70% off still more expensive than retail. Whoopty. KOTORs are cheaper, though (and much older).
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Funny. with the recent state of the industry, most "Triple A" are the very games I outright ignore as they tend to be annualized copies of last years game.
And even the good ones generally fall in the "if you wait a year, you'll get the complete edition WITH all DLC at a discount" catagory.
No, it seems to me that they've made some serious mistakes in the way the system is currently handled.
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For certain parts, Origin is worse than steam as they have an extra layer of region pricing. For me for an example, games are about 7-8% more expensive than Steam (not Pillars of Eternity though, interestingly enough, which is noticeably cheaper).
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That's odd. What's your region? I'm from Poland. Maybe it's a tax thing?
You weren't kidding about Pillars of Eternity - regular edition retail - 119PLN ; Origin- Hero Edition - 144PLN ; Steam, regular edition - 42€ ~ 168PLN
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I'm from Sweden, and they do the whole $1=1€=10sek thing, which makes Uplay quite unfavourable.
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Overpriced? LOL. I guess it depends on where you live but here Uplay, Origin and retail games (many that activate as ROW on Steam) are at least 50% cheaper starting day 1 that they are on Steam.
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You're from Romania, yes? Then even if you have to pay like 30 euro for one AAA game it's for you guys a lot of money. Average salary in Romania is like 5 times lower than in Germany for example, where they have to pay 60 euro for a game on STEAM. In my opinion Germans pay less than you (relatively), becaue they can earn 60 euros in like 2 hours. And you will have to work nearly 2 days for 30 euros. It's the same for my region.
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Well, I don't deny this. And yes, I am from Romania. However, not all games cost 20-30 euros from start. Mostly Ubisof and EA. However, this is not about what we can afford but the fact that I never saw overpriced games on Origin and Uplay. They cost the same or less.Of course, I cannot speak for others, it's just based on my experience.
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No, they didn't. Australia has new refund policy - ANYTHING bought on Origin that doesn't work, even after long time (not just 24 hours since install/running), can be returned and refunded.
You're talking about "if you didn't like EA game in first 24 hours since starting, you can return it back". BUT only EA game. So if you hated Far Cry bought on Origin, no return.
Valve right now breaks Aussie-customers rights, so if they don't follow they might get trade-ban from Australian government...
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I've been seeing the 30 days money back guarantee for about 2 years now. And not for EA only.
So far I never asked for a refund since I only had problems with Origin games once and got solve in 10 minutes but it's good to know I have this option.
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For me, it still says that you can get a refund within 24 hours after first launch for EA games and participating third party titles (about 11 more games).
If you purchase a game within the first 30 days of it's release, you get 72 hours instead of 24.
[Source]
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They were ordered by court to implement this change if they wish to stay in market in Australia. It's got nothing to do with "stay on good course".
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Why do you think steam changed its rules from offering game licences to offering permanent abonament on games? To avoid being forced to offer refund.
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Well, Law doesn't really matter, I read the ToS (Steam Subscriber Agreement) and you agree that the ToS are respected according to Washington law, so if the ToS is not in agreement with your country's/EU's law, Valve is not legally responsible, but your country/ the EU CAN ban Valve from their territory, so Valve/EA/Ubisoft/etc comply with the law and make adjustments on the specific regions.
Theoretically, they COULD make a virtual country and do whatever ToS they want, but for users in other countries to use the products, they must comply with the law in that country.
But, for example, if a region like Greenland imposes a law requiring all digital games to come with a physical box/proof of purchase, Valve is allowed to not comply and it's Greenland's loss, but Australia is probably a loss for Valve.
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Actually CommissarStrayed is right. You can freely say what every you wish in your ToS, but only parts that follow the law of country where service/product is used are valid.
There is legal minimal warranty for i.e. car. If distributer offers you anything less, that part is invalid, and government will enforce its laws. In my country even second hand items that lost their warranty, are covered with similar law, and you are responsible as distributer for that goods.
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Bullcrap. Law always trumps ToS, as ToS or SSA or EULA are NOT legally binding contracts. In Europe these documents are worth less than the HDD space they take
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No, but for example if a term in the ToS violates Eu law, can Valve/EA be punished according to EU law? Poor Ubisoft
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I will add that EU Commission likes to do that and the anti-trust works 24/7 xD
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You mean... I can sue Valve if Bad Rats suddenly disappears from my library?
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If another thousand of users, scattered around EU have the same issue most likely you can :)
Just ask them if you're interested in EU law-enforcement uber powers.
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Refund? Never used it. There are other ways to check if the game is good and how it runs. Not going to use origin anyway. Big prices, too little features, shitty games cut into DLC. I'm not paying for EA games. Origin helps me to save money. Same as ubisoft.
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Well you can do all the checking you want does that mean the game will work on your system.
That is the nature of pc gaming,you can have the same setup as 20 of your friends but your the only one that has an issue trying to get it to work.
All i am trying to say is sometimes no matter what you do a game will refuse to work,so that refund might be nice,though good luck with Steam in most cases you will just get a big Fuck Off.
I on the other hand hate buying games on steam that need another client to run,so i end up needing to run to dam clients for one game,.Steam is the most over rated software i have ever bothered with.It just a glorified launcher,other programs do what steam does so much better,
Fraps takes screen shots,video,twitch can stream games not that i do that.Skype and other programs do voice chat better which i prefer anyhow as i can talk to others in a different game if i so choose.
The one thing steam has for it and one biggest reason people use it are the big sales and the DRM is not that bad in most cases but that is only if they use steam for it,a lot games still use other DRM or need Uplay,Origin to play.
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This isn't even remotely approaching Good Guy EA. This is EA having to follow the laws of a country that yet operate within.
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They're not stepping up anything, they're only complying with a court order.
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Getting on a good course with customers requires them to actually have a customer service. I don't see that happening any time soon...
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I have to admit that I'm pretty satisfied with Origin. Never had any problem with the client and the support is really great and helpful.
However I strongly disagree with EA's policy of DLCs and cash milking the shit out of games...
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Steam needs to be taken to court (again) before we will get anywhere tbh. Unless the community riot like we did with the Skyrim mods, nothing is going to change.
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The answer is no, let's not forget that last month Steam changed its policy to make sure that the EU law giving European customers the right to a refund within 14 days of a purchase no longer applies to games purchased from their store.
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Which is not by the EU law, which is making it non-valid.
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Apparently there is a clause designed for small businesses and steam smartly abused it, so what they are doing is legal.
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you cant waveout or accept to not get covered by law
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This is reactionary, no goodwill for EA here. As far as steam is concerned, it'll never happen unless government strong-armed the same way. It would certainly help clean up greenlight though, and perhaps revert early access back to its true intent.
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Yeah, no one else must have read the article like this guy.
"WE ARE GREAT COMPANY. PLZ DONT SUE KEKEKEKEKEKE"
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True, however Valve isn't doing it yet and something tells me that they won't care to follow it either... maybe I read it wrong but EA applied this policy to all clients and not only to australians clients too, at least my Latin American warranty shows that I have the same privileges as the aussies now, and THAT is something they weren't forced to do.
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Oh shit I thought that it was only for Australians. Nvm then this is actually a good move and now EA/Origin is better than Valve.
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Misclicked and turns out it was right lol.
Meant to click maybe.
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I mean volvo took a bullet to the face with the whole Paid Mod fiasco ... so i guess now its a good time for EA to try and look like the good guys .
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EA, and by extension Origin, aren't as bad as everyone thinks. It just happens to have a history of being represented by bad people but they're not necessarily a bad company
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People are what make the company. If the people in the company are assholes then the company is an asshole.
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My god, it's like you are living in my head.
How do people not comprehend that employees represent a company's image?
You are whitelisted, good sir, for double goodness in this thread alone.
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Agreed. Just look at Xbox One's fiasco... it took more than a year and lots of price cuts and game bundles to get close to Sony. Pardon my console blabbering, I just thought it was a perfect example about a company's reputation.
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Uh, what? No. People can be assholes but that doesn't represent how the company itself is run. EA makes sales because they aren't fucking stupid and they know HOW to make sales.
Yeah, I said the people are bad but the company isn't. A company's purpose is to make money because it's a business. if it makes money, it's a good company. The people themselves however can be absolute shitheads that insist on making day-one DLCs constantly. Irrelevant if the game has quality and makes sales.
Learn the difference between a company itself and the people that run it.
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Bad can be interpreted in many different ways and there's no need to be insulting me. And yes the employees represent the company completely. Everyone in the upper half of the company are the ones making the decision. Look at CD project red. Those guys are kind to their customers and are considered a good company because they are kind and respect their customers. EA and Ubisoft are considered bad companies because they don't respect us and were treating us like shit. There are two sides of any business. Sales and customers. If you fail in one you've got a 50% score and that means you fail.
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Yeah yeah, everybody hates EA and their Origin client (me included), however this is a genuinely good decision they took, it makes sense to ask for a refund AFTER you started the game, the 72h are way too generous too, some people may try to exploit it but I hope not.
Now about Steam... Valve has a shitty customer service and they keep making large sums of money daily so I don't think they will copy these good practices shown by EA, Origin has had a better customer service since launch and Steam still has a terrible one and haven't changed much from what I know, so people should demand changes and at the same time don't expect much from Valve.
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If EA wanted to step up, they would put their new games on Steam. No intention to pay for anything on Origin anytime soon.
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Agreed, I'll might buy them bundles because the $ goes straight to charity but I prefer having all my games in one client, however EA loves making big bucks and the won't give a 30% cut of sales to Valve... that's business, bad for consumers but still EA won't change it since a lot of people pay to play their latest games on Origin.
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But Steam having a complete monopoly is good for consumers?
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A monopoly isn't good but it depends since I don't see it as a monopoly, first of all consumers buy games through consoles (3 main ones) and through PC, on the latter you have GoG as a direct counter part of Steam since it's DRM free, then you have Uplay and Origin who are just clients of a single publisher (yes, there are a few other games in there too but it's still quite limited) that do so to not give a cut of profits to Valve, but in the end they add very little to the end user.
Also both Ubisoft and EA have horrible business models that flood with DLC all their games and in most cases they don't even have season passes and discounts, that way they nickel and dime the customers more, plus their client stores don't have 80-90% off deals like Valve does. Back to my initial statement, I don't mind Valve having the PC monopoly since it still has to compete with MS and Sony for gamers $ and there will always be games online stores and gaming deals such as bundles to compete with Valve.
edit: a few corrections :P
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I don't see steam voluntarily implementing this until they are forced to do so. And if they do, then it may only apply to that game region.
I do wish games at least had a 2-4 week refund policy on Steam, even Blizzard has a 30 day refund policy for electronic downloads through their site.
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Mass Effect and Dragon Age DLC are overpriced, and the only seller are EA/Bioware, that sucks a lot.
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Looks like EA is trying to stay on good course with its customers.
PC Gamer article
Origin
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