Hope more is coming, specially with permanent ones!
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I cannot help but wonder if this forum post was.... scripted. :D
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Fantastic news, this should help the community improve even more
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Cool, glad to see some penalties coming for autojoiners. I think a short suspension is good for first offenses, as some may not have seen the announcement, or speak English as a first language. It would be good to see longer and maybe even permanent suspensions for repeat offenders, though.
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^^ This!
Basically, if you do it again after a suspension, you are truly saying f-you to the rules of SG.
Same rule should apply to non-activations, etc.
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I believe same rules already apply to almost all rulebreaking on SG (including non activation), with exception of most severe offenses like CV frauds or multiaccounts. For first non-activation you are getting relatively short suspension - just 5 days for non-activated game, if you break rules again suspension is doubled and only repeated offenders who simply show they don't give a fck about community rules get permaban, noone will get permabanned for his first non-activation.
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I think repeating it once after that first infraction means you probably don't give a f*ck. First time can be ignorance, language issue, mistake, etc. Short suspension with an explanation makes sense. If you do it again, you either don't care and/or are willing to risk getting caught, which suggests a perma suspension to me. Just my opinion.
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I think 2nd time works as an error buffer, you can missclick on marking, game may get revoked, you didn't notice you got key for game of similar name etc. We know support works slow - for example I never even got reply on my own suspension ticket before suspension was already over, so in case of mistake worst case scenario you wait 10 days and can use website again, and hopefully after few weeks/months someone will finally resolve your issue and you will no longer have this 2nd strike on your account. Now imagine situation that you get permabanned due to mistake and wait months to clarify it and fix the situation. Seems harsh.
Or maybe I am overthinking it and it's simply based on very popular approach of "third strike, you're out' ;p
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It's true that it's a constant problem that Support is overworked and understaffed. I would hope they would prioritize support tickets related to perma-suspensions, for the reasons you state. I don't strongly disagree with three strikes...but on the average, I think two strikes has more benefits than detriments, especially since those wrongly perma'd will in theory eventually get the situation fixed.
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I don't really have a strong opinion on which is better, 2-strike or 3-strike, as long as there is a system to permaban repeated offenders 2 or 3 is not a big difference, I have a strong opinion that 1st time small suspension is good thing, but nothing else ;p Also I don't think it's a big issue anyway, I remember support staff saying that massive majority of users (I don't remember how much exactly but it was in high 9X% radius) never repeat offense after their first suspension, so repeated offenders are a very small fraction anyway so whether they get out on 2nd or 3rd strike won't have any big impact on community itself.
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I remember support staff saying that massive majority of users (I don't remember how much exactly but it was in high 9X% radius) never repeat offense after their first suspension, so repeated offenders are a very small fraction anyway so whether they get out on 2nd or 3rd strike won't have any big impact on community itself.
that shouldn't even be the main consideration. it should be a fair rule. fair to the individual. the impact on the whole community should be secondary, if you ask me. that's why i am for forgiveness rather than permabans (except for the extreme cases, of course). i personally would find 2 strikes way too harsh. i would probably go for a different system alltogether. maybe something with growing length of suspension for each offense (and also a length reduction over time) instead of x strikes.
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+1. I also favor growing suspensions over permabans. No reason not to give people the chance to redeem themselves in the future.
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like I said - for me 2 or 3 strike is the same, but only if we consider perfect system, only difference between 2 and 3 I see is mentioned 'buffer' - rare cases where we have false positive that would end up with permaban. In general I believe that anyone should be given 2nd chance, so first time should never result in permban (minus extreme cases like CV fraud or multiaccount), 2nd time should mean someone is willing to cheat, aka perma, but as there can be an error, that's why i mentioned buffer, 3rd strike means that even if there was an error this individual broke rules even while he knew what rules were, so considering buffer 3rd strike should always be perma, even if in 90% cases 2nd strike should be, but it's not worth it to kick people out by mistake by making it 2nd strike rule, which cas in minority of examples end up with innocent getting permaban,
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yeah, i understand what you mean. i just wanted to say i am against a 2 or 3 strike system. i don't think it's beneficial for us to ban people. i think growing suspensions are a better solution, since we give people a chance to become decent members, even after they did something wrong a couple of times. growing in a way that people actually realize they can't do that here, so more than just a few days. anyways, i think perma-bans after just a few offenses are the wrong way, since they exclude people forever instead of trying to get them to follow the rules and become valuable members. i mean, if someone robs a bank you put them in prison to (theoretically) resocialize them. you don't put them on the chair (at least not in most countries ^^).
sorry for the late response, was quite busy the last days...
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no worries, I am busy myself lately, visiting SG maybe twice a day and even then not always responding (now I have a time so will respond this time ;p)
I gotta disagree with you, what you say is very ideallistic and in perfect community it would work, I also tend to strife towards similar ideas in real life, but SG in SG enviroment it would end up badly I believe. Problem is detection rate which on SG is drastically small, thus may encourage rulebreaking if there was no serious risk for repeated offenders. After you break the rule you can go on for months with noone noticing, even if someone does notice it is unknown whether they will file a report, or assume 'you probably already served', or they don't want to wait for support etc. To use your bank robbery comparison - it's like bank only noticed they've been robbed months later, then maybe they willr eport the robbery, maybe not, you may never get caught, you likely already managed to spend/hide all the money, then you go to jail for few years and when you leave you live like a king. Doesn't such situation sound encouraging for other potential bank robbers? In SG with our low detection rate it would basically mean 'are you feeling lucky' in combination of calculating the risk - is this rulebreaking profitable enough to risk suspension? How much will I manage to profit before next time I'm caught? If let's say each new suspension is 5 days longer, then 1st time I got 5 days, 2nd time I get 10 days, but I calculate after each win - is this win worth enough for me to get another suspension? If I was suspended twice and I win bundle shovelware - I will activate it because it's not worth 15 days suspension, but if I win brand new 60$ AAA game I may decide that 60$ profit from trading it away is worth getting 15 days suspension, especially if I'm low level account and it's unlikelly I would miss some even better win during these 15 days. So your system in my eyes is not really beneficial to us, it is not making these repeated offenders a decent members, they may seem like a decent members now because at this point continuous rulebreaking is not worth it, but moment it is worth it they can suddenly brreak the rules again, simply because they will consider profit worth suspension time. I'm all for giving people second chances, but if someone given second and third chance continue to do the very same thing I stop believing that 4th, 5th or 6th chance will suddenly resocialize them. In a system when it can be objectively profitable to sometimes break the rules, because you may not get caught or even if you do the profit is worth it, you are bound to have people who will never become decent members of community and will break rules in pursue of personal gain, and this I don't believe is in any way beneficial to the community, especially as it would discourage a lot of fair users.
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I gotta disagree with you, what you say is very ideallistic
Yeah, that's me... xD
Problem is detection rate which on SG is drastically small, thus may encourage rulebreaking if there was no serious risk for repeated offenders. After you break the rule you can go on for months with noone noticing, even if someone does notice it is unknown whether they will file a report, or assume 'you probably already served', or they don't want to wait for support etc. To use your bank robbery comparison - it's like bank only noticed they've been robbed months later, then maybe they willr eport the robbery, maybe not, you may never get caught, you likely already managed to spend/hide all the money, then you go to jail for few years and when you leave you live like a king. Doesn't such situation sound encouraging for other potential bank robbers? In SG with our low detection rate it would basically mean 'are you feeling lucky' in combination of calculating the risk - is this rulebreaking profitable enough to risk suspension? How much will I manage to profit before next time I'm caught? If let's say each new suspension is 5 days longer, then 1st time I got 5 days, 2nd time I get 10 days, but I calculate after each win - is this win worth enough for me to get another suspension? If I was suspended twice and I win bundle shovelware - I will activate it because it's not worth 15 days suspension, but if I win brand new 60$ AAA game I may decide that 60$ profit from trading it away is worth getting 15 days suspension, especially if I'm low level account and it's unlikelly I would miss some even better win during these 15 days.
You're right, but shouldn't we then try to work on the root of this problem, which is the low detection rate, rather than make harsher rules for everyone? I think we should make fair rules first, and if there is a problem with enforcing them work on how to better enforce them. At least that's what my idealistic mind came up with. ;)
So your system in my eyes is not really beneficial to us, it is not making these repeated offenders a decent members
Well, it doesn't do that. People need to do that themselves. And being a little more forgivingly (or at least not perma-ban people left and right) makes that possible even for repeated offenders. It's certainly not possible if those people cannot access the site anymore.
I'm all for giving people second chances, but if someone given second and third chance continue to do the very same thing I stop believing that 4th, 5th or 6th chance will suddenly resocialize them.
I am not saying that we should give people like a hundred chances, don't get me wrong. At some point it's probably safe to give up on someone. I just don't think it should happen that fast. Everybody can make two or three mistakes and then change later on. I made a few mistakes when I was new here. If we had a system as harsh as some here are asking for, maybe I wouldn't be on the site anymore. I corrected my mistakes and made up for it. If I can do it, others can as well. That's why I don't like the idea of banning people too quickly.
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You're right, but shouldn't we then try to work on the root of this problem, which is the low detection rate, rather than make harsher rules for everyone? I think we should make fair rules first, and if there is a problem with enforcing them work on how to better enforce them. At least that's what my idealistic mind came up with. ;)We should, but your approach I don't seem a right way to do it, because changing the rules won't suddenly turn into more support members joining to manage them. It's like with building the house, first you gotta build foundation only then you can start building walls. So first you would need to get high detection rate, either by getting bigger, more dedicated and more solid support (perhaps not solely based on volounteers) or get better tools for support (for example not relying solely on tickets but automatic detection tools based on profile syncing), or perhaps both of these. Only then you can start thinking about softening the punishments. Not the opther way around - first lowering suspensions and then starting to hope you maybe come up with some idea for a foundation - a detection system that doesn't take months of time and luck to find rulebreakers.
And being a little more forgivingly (or at least not perma-ban people left and right) makes that possible even for repeated offenders.Current system is not perma-banning left and right, quite the contrary. Keep in mind that our low detection rate usually means that it's not just 'you don't activate your first game and you get suspension right away', people who are dedicated to exploit system usually manage to get multiple games before they even get reported, I've reported users who had over 10 non-activations before got suspended. It's not uncommon, even quite common to see someone having 3-5 when I report them for the first time. multiply these numbers by 3. If someone steals few games and get first suspension, then steals another few, gets second and continue to do so it's no longer a case of someone just being lost and we denying him chance to become better by permabanning him. It's case of someone continuosly breaking the rules, exploiting the fact that detection rate is low and if he alkready gopt suspended it at least twice, he is fully aware of what he's doing. Only moment we can start thinking about rising number of strikes is when we manage to get high detection rate. So each time you regift/trade your win you get suspende, then we can try to reeducate these people, but at current rate, if 3 strikes often mean dozen or more of games rising offense limit before permaban is like promoting rulebreaking as long as it's profitable to you.
If we had a system as harsh as some here are asking for, maybe I wouldn't be on the site anymore. I corrected my mistakes and made up for it. If I can do it, others can as well. That's why I don't like the idea of banning people too quickly.I've made mitakes of my own, playing with point system, getting multiwin from wrong game package etc, but I learnt from these mistakes. I am not calling for making system some people in this topic wantr. In this very discussion I said that I believe permaban on first offence is terrible idea, permaban on 2nd can lead to false-positives, but permaban on third already means you had a chance to learn from your mistakes, you just refused to take it. Keep in mind that strikes are separate for each kind of f=offence, so it's not the case that first someone got suspended for calling out, then for begging and they just didn't activate the game and get permaban. Someone would have to continue not activating games despite at least 2 suspensions tp get perma.
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Sorry, I have to keep it short this time. Busy day today... ;)
We should, but your approach I don't seem a right way to do it, because changing the rules won't suddenly turn into more support members joining to manage them. It's like with building the house, first you gotta build foundation only then you can start building walls. So first you would need to get high detection rate, either by getting bigger, more dedicated and more solid support (perhaps not solely based on volounteers) or get better tools for support (for example not relying solely on tickets but automatic detection tools based on profile syncing), or perhaps both of these. Only then you can start thinking about softening the punishments. Not the opther way around - first lowering suspensions and then starting to hope you maybe come up with some idea for a foundation - a detection system that doesn't take months of time and luck to find rulebreakers.
I'm not saying I have all the answers. I just think this would be a better alternative to 3 strikes. I even prefer the way it is today to 3 strikes. I just don't like the idea of banning some good people, even if that achieves banning a lot of bad ones. I also don't like the idea of implementing too harsh rules first and then maybe lower them at a later point.
Current system is not perma-banning left and right, quite the contrary.
Right, it's not like that right now. I was referring to a 2 or 3 strike system. To overly harsh bans. I didn't necessarily talk about the actual execution as it is now.
Keep in mind that our low detection rate usually means that it's not just 'you don't activate your first game and you get suspension right away', people who are dedicated to exploit system usually manage to get multiple games before they even get reported, I've reported users who had over 10 non-activations before got suspended.
Right, that is a problem. I would imagine it shouldn't be too hard to implement an automatic (or at least semi-automatic) solution. determining non-activated gifts for a user obviously isn't hard. So there could be a warning for a few days, and then an automated suspension. If we take problems with removed games and such into consideration, such a system could at least generate tasks for support members to look at.
In this very discussion I said that I believe permaban on first offence is terrible idea, permaban on 2nd can lead to false-positives, but permaban on third already means you had a chance to learn from your mistakes, you just refused to take it.
Doesn't mean people will never change. I bet we have quite a few members that had more than 3 offenses in the past, but are rule-obeying, valuable members now.
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No problem, as you can see I was not able to reply for a long time anyway ;p
I'm not saying I have all the answers. I just think this would be a better alternative to 3 strikes. I even prefer the way it is today to 3 strikes. I just don't like the idea of banning some good people, even if that achieves banning a lot of bad ones. I also don't like the idea of implementing too harsh rules first and then maybe lower them at a later point.Someone who had multiple chances to redeem himself is not a 'good people', and it's not harsh rules, it's middleground between permaban all rulebreakers and your idealistic idea which cannot be done unless we have high detection rate. Also I lately read that if you got permasuspension (not permaban) you can appeal and have it lifted after 1 year passed, so it's not getting rid of everyone forever, just extreme cases (like infamous konrad for example), but even if you screwed up you can still hope to get back (especially as you repair your mistakes which in case of non-activations is not that hard, just buy the games). So it's not really banning potentially good people forever and ever ever, just making sure that in no circumstances rulebreaking will be profitable enough to risk it.
Right, it's not like that right now. I was referring to a 2 or 3 strike system. To overly harsh bans. I didn't necessarily talk about the actual execution as it is now.Like I already mentioned - I am opposed to 2 strikes as well, but 3 strikes is what we already usually have unless some of these 3 strikes were really minor thingsies. And while 1-2 strikes are overly harsh, 3 strikes are not - you had chance to learn, you're protected from false positive, so only way to get poerma is if you knowingly continue to break rulse, it's pure recidivism, no matter how you look at it, so it's no longer something really harsh.
So there could be a warning for a few days, and then an automated suspension.Sorry but absolutelly not! Steam API bugs a lot, false positives happen all the time (especially now when Valve is removing games from API when they remove them from store), thus we cannot have automatic suspension system, it's a big no-no. What we can have is automatic report system. Currently we solely rely on user reports, and since there is no SG integrated check very small portion of community bothers checking, even smaller reporting. We could get rid of all reporting part, but it still should be human who pullsthe trigger, who decides whether something is real infraction or a bug. You say about not wanting to suspend innocent users - that's wehat automated system would do. Human can judge, computer cannot in cases you didn't program. If human see that someone with 2000 activated wins suddenly didn't activate he will first try to go deeper and see if it's not a bug. If human see that 500 users got non-activation for the very same game, he will check if this game is still in Steam Store, if human see whole userbase having non-activations he will assume API may have bugged and so on and on.
Doesn't mean people will never change. I bet we have quite a few members that had more than 3 offenses in the past, but are rule-obeying, valuable members now.Show me these users, because from what I've heard from support over 95% of users never rul;ebreak again after first suspension for this particular rulebreak, Also as I mentioned before someone who got permasuspended can still get it lifted after one year. Considering that most of rulkebreaks (if not a honest mistake, and then not a case, as person is unlikely to repeat it over and over again) get multiplied suspensions for multiple rulebreakings, if someones gets let's say 3 susp[ensions times 5 games, it means a total of 25+50+75 day suspension, so grand total of 150 suspension days in a year, half a year already, even if he gets permasusp, he can activate games, appeal and get back after a year, I don't see it as ultra-harsh, rather opposite as he could get away with 15 games stolen in the first place, if he want to get back he should first prove he is going to behave.
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Actually, indications are that perma-suspensions can generally appealed after one year.
if someone robs a bank you put them in prison to (theoretically) resocialize them. you don't put them on the chair
Those who keep robbing banks after being convicted several times do get a life-sentence at some point.
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Actually, indications are that perma-suspensions can generally appealed after one year.
Interesting, didn't know that.
Those who keep robbing banks after being convicted several times do get a life-sentence at some point.
It's a lackluster comparison. I should have chosen a different one. ^^
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I think this is just about right, give elbow room for errors etc. Punishment should never be on/off, always on a sliding scale (apart from some horrendous crimes, like not saying thank you and so on... ;-) as different people have different approaches to things.
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+1 . Seems fair and reasonable. Warning then if still ignore ban. :-)
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After I saw your comment, I got curious and checked mine too. Bit disappointing seeing some pretty high level people suddenly getting suspended lol...
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In my experience, many high-levels are some of the biggest win collectors and/or auto-joiners.
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My whitelist is only small but is entirely unmolested. I didn't bother checking my blacklist as I rarely use it and clear it out every few months anyway.
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Oh. That makes it much more easy, managed to clean up a bit!
Super handy! Thank you :3 <3
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Man I wish I saw that script last night lol Went through manually looking xD Saving that for next time. Thanks!
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While checking blacklist I noticed something weird. How is this possible?
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what jims said, suspended user may not agree with suspension, create a unsuspend ticket and is still capable of commenting on Support page and writing tickets to support staff and receiving replies. Only users not capable of doing even that are users who get banned (see picture below) - these are people who despite receiving rightful suspension and being informed it won't be lifted keep spamming and harassing support via ticket system - so they get banned instead of suspended, so they no longer have access to any part of the website.
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Well, count me in :(
5 out of 280 from my WL are suddenly suspended for 3 to 4 days. Ranging from Level 5 to Level 10. That's indeed disappointing.
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In my experience, many high-levels are some of the biggest win collectors and/or auto-joiners.
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Proud to say no one in my WL is suspended right now. :)
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Thank you for the update :) Now it is the perfect time to make public giveaways I guess :D
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I assume the people with "Suspended for 4 days" on my blacklist are part of those 1.6k, seeing as there's suddenly a bunch of them with the same suspension length.
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Nice going, Cg and maybe it's an option to have a strike system similar to the SGTools strike system where for example the IV' strike is a permanent ban, to dissuade the hardcore autojoiners.
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Actually the strike system already applies to all infractions here on SG whether it's begging, advertising or non activated wins.
Repeated offenses lead to increased Suspension durations up to permanent suspension.
For now, those users have received a short suspension as a reminder to disable their scripts. However, future suspensions will be more severe, or permanent.
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True but with SGTools you know there are 4 strikes, no more no less, while on SG I have never seen or heard how many times\strikes there are before the permanent one and if in all cases and users that number is exactly the same.
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I think it's usually 3 but you have to break the same rule repeatedly for that to apply.
Last week I saw somebody permanently suspended for advertising on the 2nd offense.
I think spamming is kind of an exception here. If you space it out over a long duration I assume you won't be perma'd for for your 3rd spamming offense suspension.
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I guess that would depend on the definition of spam.
Also some things are one strike permanent bans on SG like using multiple accounts and misuse of giveaway feedback.
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Also some things are one strike permanent bans on SG like using multiple accounts and misuse of giveaway feedback.
Indeed. And rightly so.
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look at your thanks for your ga [insert username] have a nice [insert date] logitech macro™ posts ...thats spam.. you do it at least 20times a day ._. and tbh i would have perma suspended you already for your military bullshit posts in many threads, cause they are racist against palestine, muslim and some other users, and on top of this you always claim to be the victim of racism. here too ...you got suspended few times already ,but you dont know anything about the rules the mods told you? i really tried to appeal to your sense of justice or honor few times...but theres nothing ... have a nice time at your your own pleasure on sg o/
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you know when you speak about things as "facts" when they arent ones it kindev makes you look like a fool...you should learn history and learn about israel before saying stuff like "racist against palestine" (as there are no palestine at all)
you can start here if you want a quick summery on "palestine" Rebuttal The Real Truth about Palestine
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136/193 of UN recognized palestine as a independed state.. but i already spoke to at least 3 people living in jerusalem which identifiy themself as palestines, so i dont care about this :objective..." the only country which practices freedom of speech" formally known as the real truth about video.. the things i posted are facts: his military propaganda spam vids and pics are annoying. But thanks for confirming that youre a racist with the help of god o/
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"UN recognized"? let me paint you a picture - you are driven from your home by force, your home is named differently, some immigrants come and settle on your home saying its theirs, you come back to your home saying its yours - and then the "UN recognized" it aint yours - hows that sound to you? hows that look to you?
my people are in israel for thousandth of years, even after banishment the Jewish settlement were still in existence, we never chose to leve it, never forgot it and we always wished back to it! you can read it farther here History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel those are facts.
"palestine" is a fiction - a name given to a concurred region in order to "change" its belonging to it, they have no history before the immigration, no leaders, no political or people entity etc, and they say it themselves for example palestinians are a myth says hamas member "they are just saudis and egyptians"
but you spoke to 3 people...who live in Jerusalem who identify themselves as "palestines" - so that must be the truth, history lies, thousandth of years proves who are recorded even in the bible probably a lie in your eye as well - 3 people...how about millions of my Jewish people? how about millions over millions who perished in exile of Jewish people? those that count as proof?
by the way if you have agenda against someone comments like with "LostSoulVL" - the right way is to address it on private chat, doing so on public is borderline of shaming.
any way if you want to talk about facts of israel learn some history before that, as i mentioned if you say non facts as facts well...
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I´m really not interested in some thousand years old crying story, nor in hundrets of useless special forces posts or generic spam.
There are places to share your pain, but it´s not necessary to spam the whole forum with this bs.
I´m mildly amused his majesty doesn´t even reply to me, but sends a delivery boy to ask me to adress him in private chat.
Whatever.. stop spamming your trash and everybody is fine..
Have a nice sunday o/
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im really aint interested in people like you, take your own advise and stop spamming us with your "logic".
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I swear I thought you commented to me first...
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i swear i didnt think you are one of those people that when striped out of profs from there words it leaves them just with emptiness and sarcasm to compensate for it.
and as i recall it YOU commented first to "LostSoulVL", i just corrected you with FACTS.
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As i recall you I don´t want to debate with fanatic guys over religion in a gaming forum. That´s the point I´m trying to tell you, but you won´t get it into your head. The only fact i got from your replies is: you´re an idiot.
I will stop here since theres obviously nothing good coming out of this discussion.
o/
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i showed you POLITICAL and HISTORICAL facts religion was just part of them, so what is your point?
and you are right nothing good comes when one cant face his mistakes.
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History recognition?
Depends on country, life, education, religion, status, political place.
This is an important notice place for the site.
It is not a place to talk about such stories.
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tho it is true for a ones point of view of history, there is also a general point of view of history who isnt debatebale (unless you have facts against it), considering that history as i brought is recorded on several points of view, on several timeline stamps, from different people and nations and by 3 major religions nonetheless, and archeological founds.
did you read and watched what i linked? those are no stories - those are facts that are recorded in history, if you have different version of history facts please - show it.
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This is an important notice place for the site.
It is not a place to talk about such stories.
all right. You can not read the name of the topic, right?
There is nothing to talk with you.
I will not reply.
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Falklands are still argentinian?
Clipperton Island, Texas and California are still mexican?
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I'm not an aztec, olmec,mayan or huichol because I born and live in Mexico today.
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did you read about Jews? because if you did you wouldn't write that.
Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated, Jews Yehudim are people, Judaism religion and Kingdom of Judah - israel state - they are all connected, it dosent mean that a jew in Mexico isnt a jew, but it does mean that his roots and homeland are israel and fundamental part of his identity - there is no "letting it go" same as you dont let go your arm or head.
so when you say "let it go" you are telling him to lose his identity, in compression asking Muslim "let go" mecca or Taoists Wudang Mountains etc'
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Chill 'bro', your belongness is blinding you. If you can't see beyond your nose, well, then have a nice day.
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i see...so you afraid of belonging...or at list against it.
tho i doubt that you dont have any attachments in your life unless you are a monk or such and if so you wouldn't be here, so i guess the issue isnt me seeing beyond my nose, rather you failing seeing beneath it :)
there is nothing wrong in belonging, unless of curse you are a monk or someone who seek solitary existence.
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while I agree with the first part, the second is part of living with freedom of speech and without censorship, so unless you want to change those 2 you'll just have to deal with it in a civilised way
if however you want to change those 2... then I fear democracy is not the right system for you
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yeah search the forum for statements about freedom of speech then you will know why I got mad...o/
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I'm actually surprised that the "large number" are just 1,614 users.
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in big giveaways (with >1000 copies) you can see 20 000 - 30 000 entries, so 1614 its a big number ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
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1614 is actually over 5% of active community users (look that no gA no matter numner of copies get more than 30k entries, so I assume on average 30 active visitors), so 1/20th of users of this website have been running bots in just last week. Also take notice that some scripts may not have been detected yet, some users may have been lucky and for example were on vacations so didn't script, finally a lot of autojoiners stopped after initial announcement 5 months ago - because of that biggest and most popular autojoin script got discontinued so a lot of people stopped using autojoiners, but when it was still active and working the Steam group associated with it had almost 5k members (note that not all users joined group), on Chrome Store alone it was downloaded almost 4k times, no way to tell how many people DLed it directly - so there's at one point been at least 5-6k of autojoiners on SG, meaning 20% of active community, now it dropped to 5% but it's still very high number.
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Wow 1614!
I wish we could see more details, like how many users from each CV level?
If they are all low level users who don't use the site a lot or who are not really a part of the community, it is understandable, but if they are some of the high level users who participate the forums, read the discussions, actively create and join the giveaways, then it is another story....
Edit: Everybody can check their whitelist and see if someone is suspended using this tool: (Userscript) Find Those Bans
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I found 2 on my WL... and their total combined level was 20 :(
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I've long considered the very high levels to be the most extreme win collectors, and that goes hand-in-hand with auto-joining (although of course being a win collector doesn't mean you use auto-joiners). So it doesn't surprise me at all to see level 10 auto-joiners.
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Ah, I was going to ask if there's a way to check your Whitelist easily, but a quick google search gave me the answer.
I guess this is what you are using: (Userscript) Find Those Bans
I didn't even know such a tool existed, it is quite useful I think. I'm putting it here, so others can download and use it as well.
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It's funny. I feel as though my favorite thing about this site is all the metrics available. Either directly though the site or with some add-ons. I too enjoy looking at the broad metrics of who's doing what on this site.
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"If they are all low level users who don't use the site a lot or who are not really a part of the community, it is understandable" - you'd be surprised, a lot of these low level autojoiners thanks to extensive use of scripts have more wins than many of active mid-levels who play fair. I've seen lvl 0-1 users with 100, 150, 200 and in most extreme case over 400 wins, so nah, it's totally not understandable and really harmful to the fair part of the community.
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Yeah, I checked a few steamgifts profiles from their Autojoin steam group, they all had hundreds of wins even with level 1-2 accounts... Most of them were not suspended btw :D I'm talking about people who actively discuss how to use the script and ask about if they could be caught etc in their steam group...
By saying understandable, I mean, if they are some random people who use the site with that autojoin tool without participating in the forums and discussions most likely not even browsing the site without the autojoiner and see the wins from their email notification maybe they haven't even seen the autjoin script threads before..
But if they are high levels who actively participate in the community and the discussions, there's no way they didn't see so many warnings and threads about it. It means they just ignored it and kept using the autojoin script...
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not to play devil's advocate, I'd wish all autojoiners to rot in hell, heck I'd argue high level autojoiners are even worse, because people contributed serious money to get to higher levels just to lese GAs because some fucker decides to cheat, but at least these high levels gave something to community, thoiusands of low level bots (possibly even multiaccounts) gave nothing yet leeched almost as much as these higher level autojoiners. Don't get me wrong ofc, I believe all botters should get banned, but thousands of low lvl botters should get banned even more ;p Higher levels win anyway, lower levels cannot win because of bots, this discourage them and they leave, maybe if they didn't we would bet more contributors. Higher levels are already making GAs, lower levels are discouraged from making them because they cannot win anything because of rulebreakers. Higher level cheaters hurt community growth less than flood of low level multiaccount bots.
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Thank you!
I found none in my WL, nice. :-) 👍
I found 7 in my BL that fit the bill, lovely. ^^ 👌
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Out of over 1 million user, that's just a 0,2%... I had the idea that such kind of users were much more, hopefully this is just the beginning of something bigger that will come soon.
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The suspensions are based on activity from the past week. The vast majority of those 1 million users weren't active the last week (let alone the last month or year).
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SG has 1mil accounts, that does not mean 1mil active users, actually SG has probably few tens of thousand active users, look at it this way - even 30k copies GA will not get 30k entries, in worst case scenario if we assume that it means SG has around 30k active daily users it would mean that 1/20 of them were autojoiners which is a massive number. Also note the fact that autojoiners numbers already fell a lot after 5 months ago announcment - after that most popular autojoiner got discontinued, and it had almost 4k downloads from chrome store alone, it's steam group had way over 5k members and no way to know how many poeple DLed it directly, but it's easy to assume that at least 6k users were using it. That would mean that 10-20% of active community was running a rulebreaking script which is realy a crazy-high number.
To put it into context, in normal western societies incarceration rate (% of society who got criminal charges and went to jail) is 1-3% (excluding US, but US is kinda crazy with their prison system), if we consider SG as an equoivalent of real life community it would mean that criminal rate on this one offense alone (nopt to mention all other rulebreakings) is now still 2-5 times higher than in real world, and used to be 3-20 times higher! So in this perspective these users are actually much more common than you should expect.
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What you say makes perfect sense, the percentage on the total amount of users was actually not meaningful since the measure has been taken on active users which are much less. I didn't expect them to be THAT much less, but I realize now that they most likely are, as we can also see from the number of entries for the most popular giveaways.
In any case I hope (and expect) that in the following months there will be more cleaning operations like this, and with permanent suspension, so that we can rid of new autojoiners as well as recidivist old users and those who somehow didn't get caught so far.
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Am I looking at the wrong data?
List of Countries by Incarceration Rate
It is more like 0.1% rather than 1% in Western EU, those numbers are prisoners per 100k population.
Also, till cg started a thread about it, it wasn't exactly "criminal" I guess. It is like doing some shady business when there's a loophole in the law.
Btw, Autojoin for SteamGifts Chrome Extension has more than 17500 users! Another 1500+ users for the Firefox extension of the same AutoJoin script. It was about 17510 yesterday now it is 17545, about 35 people installed the extension in the last day :D
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you are absolutelly right ;p I checked different data but it seems i forgot one zero in calculations, so I was dividing 200 by 10000 instead of 100000 ;p but it actually makes my point even more valid ;p because it means that SG 'criminal' rates are not 2-30 times higher than actual society, but rather 20-300 times higher, and it's only counting autojoiners, not mentioning non-activators, regifters, multiwinners, multiaccounters etc. so in fact these numers are really crazy-high.
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That's a quite big number of users, thank you for your continues care of the site.
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Hi SG,
You might remember that 5 months ago we had a discussion about scripts and add-ons used to automatically join giveaways, and how they are against the rules.
Unfortunately, a large number of users continued to use those scripts, and we needed to suspend 1,614 users today. The suspensions are based on activity from the past week. For now, those users have received a short suspension as a reminder to disable their scripts. However, future suspensions will be more severe, or permanent.
Hopefully this will help to keep the community fair for everyone. Enjoy your week!
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