Как русскоговорящий украинец, подписываюсь под каждым вашим словом.
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Как русский из центральной России скажу, что мы тут все не понимаем, что творит безумный дед. Все эти его игры уже давно ухудшают жизнь нам. Никто из моих близких не одобряет того, что делает верхушка власти.
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Как русский из Сибири еще в далеком 2008-м, а позже и в 2014-м спрашивал самых ярых украинских русофобов: "ладно, хрен с нами, с русскими, объясните мне, дебилу, чего хотят американцы на вашей земле? Зачем они к вам приперлись?" Тогда еще русских, не имевших украинского гражданства, на Украине не было, тем более с оружием. И ни один из ярых украинских русофобов внятного ответа на этот вопрос не смог мне дать. А вот вам в 2022 году и ответ. Америка хочет перекрыть поставки российского газа в Европу, чтобы этой Европе продавать свой газ. Вашими руками и вашими жизнями. И это только то, что на поверхности. Могу поспорить, газом их интересы не ограничиваются. Сами они свою кровь проливать за это не будут. Да, у них есть на Украине военные базы. Но пока украинцы не кончатся, зачем им посылать своих солдат? И плевать америкосам на украинцев еще больше, чем русским. Печально, что вы, братья из Украины, на это повелись. Уж не знаю, чего вам там америкосы понаобещали, но стоило ли оно того? А Россия... А что Россия?... Россия защищает свои интересы. Америкосы вели бы себя точно так же, если бы русские начали строить свои базы на Кубе и в Мексике прямо у их границ. И никто бы слова не посмел пикнуть, сидели бы и помалкивали.
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Хз почему Вы ответили мне. Но отвечу Вам.
Мне как обычному жителю России с ипотекой на 20 лет абсолютно не понятно для чего это было затевать. Какие могут быть интересы за границей, если внутри своих границ творится хуйня. Бедность, закредитованность, коррупция, ничего своего не производится. Россиянам очень далеко до уровня жизни Американцев и той же Европы.
Есть огалтелые патриоты, но когда бюджетный отечественный автомобиль стоит уже больше ляма, а многие продукты стали стоить баснословных денег, когда свои же взвинчивают цены до небес, то даже у таких патриотов должно что-то пошатнуться. Мне вот насрать что там у хохлов и какой госдолг у США, мне бы для начала хотелось жить комфортно и сытно, а не в кабале на 20 лет с полупустым холодосом с продуктами по акции и с 20 летней машиной под окном, и когда по 6-7 лет ходишь в одной куртке, потому что сука дорого новую купить.
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Потому что периферийный капитализм, выгоднее заботиться не о своих гражданах, а продавать зарубежным странам, что, очевидно улучшает жизнь не граждан своей страны, а тех, кому продают за бесценок ресурсы. Больше всего боюсь того, что наше правительство попросту сменит сутинера, на Китай, вместо того чтобы полноценно развивать свою территорию.
P.S.: Впрочем, поступки Украинской власти, да и большинства косвенно участвующих стран, меня тоже расстраивают, так что и за неё заступаться тоже нет никакого желания.
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Извините. Но не называйте поддерживающих Путина людей "патриотами". Патриот - это человек, который заботится и более за свою родину, свою страну. Он желает ей лучшей жизни и всё делает на её благо. Если "президент" страны тащит страну в пропасть, то поддерживать его это не патриотизм, а вредительство.
Ну или берите хотя бы слово "патриот" в скобки, чтобы всем было понятно, что оно используется в данном контексте, как оскорбление.
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"Я не предатель а патриот." Сказал власовец и пошёл расстреливать безоружных крестьян.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRc_XAAvwo
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Вам не смогли дать ответ, потому что ваш вопрос исходит из ложных предпосылок. В украине нет и никогда не было американских военных баз.
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Это все пздежь. Мы не были в нато, мы не были в ес - мы были хорошим соседом рф, но рф все равно напала на нас - украли крым, потом начали поставлять оружие на донбасс, а все посты там занимали граждане рф-москвичи - гиркин минстр обороны днр россиянин, глава днр пушилин - гражданин рф. И тогда газ шел российский в ес и теперь идет. Но после того как твоя раша напала на мою страну ес поняли что рф надо давить как гнду и пока у вас не будет днище то сша и ес будут поставлять нам оружие. И мы уже больше не купимся на любые договоры с рф. Подписали когда то и сдали свое ядерное оружие, третий арсенал в мире и вот тебе тот кто должен был защищать нас первым и напал. Поэтому мы будет в нато, в ес, с рашкой нам не по пути. Мы с помощью всего мира вас уничтожим до состояния 90ых. Заметь - вас никто не бомбил, а вы сами начали. Потом россияне вырезали всех жителей бучи гостомеля ирпеня.
Можешь скринить мои слова как прроческие - вы проиграете и будете десятилетиями выплачивать контрибуцию на восстановление всего того что вы уничтожили. Мы уже уничтожили 20тыс ваших солдат, уничтожили сотни самолетов и вертолетов, уже сейчас почти ничего не летает над Украиной, уничтожили больше 600 российских танков. Ну как вы там захватили Киев за 3 дня? Все было хорошо пока путин в 2014 не понял что Украина полностью уходит из влияния рф. Тогда все и началось. Ему не важен донбасс - он уничтожает его Мариуполь полностью уничтожен, русский язык ему не важен - он убивает в первую очеред жителей донбасса - а они русскоязычные. Нацистоф и фашистов у нас нет - яркий тому пример Зеленский русскоязычный еврей. Поэтому ты идешь накуй со своей рашей. Только со временем такие как ты поймут что это была ошибка. Но для этого надо сделать вас нищими и голодными, и весь мир над этим работает. Купить доллары и евро можешь по офф курсу? А полететь куда нибудь? Это только начало. Можешь мне не отвечать, я с ватанами не вступаю в диалог, потому что на вас не действуют никакие факты,только кулаком по роже.
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підписуюся під кожним словом. нам не потрібна русня, не треба до нас лізти.
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This is one of the most brainwashed comment in the whole section. West wants to cut off your gas because your country ATTACKED another sovereign country and massacaring people there. Before this west was relying on your gas. NATO wanted cooperation and Russia was invated to join cooperation sphere before whole Crimea trash.
There were never NATO bases in Ukraine. But now? Now there might be, because of your Putin. Before Urkaine had in it's Constitution being demilitarised and Neutral.
"Russia is defending it's interests". Lmao, Russian interests are Imperealist interests. Nothing else. Putin doesn't belive Ukranians exist. He wants us gone. We are a part of "trine allience" with no right to leave it. We have no Right to join NATO or EU because PUTIN DOESN'T LIKE IT! Ha! I'll remind you, UK decided to leave EU and EU helped with this decision, because it's their democratic right. Russia is as far from Democratic and Fair as it is from Surface of the Moon.
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Не одобряете, но продолжаете тихо сопеть в две дырочки.
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спасибо путину за это, вы за его партию единодушно голосовали)) ну типа.
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Я русскоговорящий украинец, вообще нахожусь на Донбассе и не могу покинуть эту дыру из-за лысого умалишённого диктатора
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https://youtu.be/RFO1-vK-Ot8 так рашисты то обстреливали.
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He just wants to renovate USSR a bit when he has enough moneys from the West...
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Not just USSR... Just worst parts of it, without it's advantages.
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There were some, depending on your life preferences. Social welfare was good indeed, and for regular people economics seemed pretty stable. It's a bad comparison, but imagine a slave with good masters - their work is not too hard, they have a home, food and clothes provided by their master, and they don't need to worry about tomorrow - they can not get unemployed, won't lose their home for debts, will never be hungry. As long as they don't want more from their life - they can actually enjoy it. And Putin really wants back the "slave" part, but without "good masters" part.
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I don't know much about the history of the USSR, but it doesn't seem to me that this was the case since there were major famines that lots of people died of and the life of a citizen of the USSR didn't much matter in the cloak of what's good for the country or "society" as they killed and enslaved(lol?) and tortured just like any other totalitarian regimes. the gov didn't care for its "slaves" but rather its survival, whatever the cost.
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"i dont know much about usa history, but they are nothing but evil since they had black slaves. also vietnam and iraq!".
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Electrification, a roof over your head, heating in apartment buildings, civil aviation and the fleet (Russia has decided that it does not need this legacy.), the first computers and the first prototype of a mobile phone (but later the initiative was successfully seized). Widespread use of household washing machines.The same Holodomor was more likely due to the Russian Empire, and the USSR solved the problems left by its predecessor. In later years, the "communists" in power did not want to solve real problems(As you said: The government did not care about its "slaves", but about its survival at any cost.). So I advise you to unstick from the manuals of the senile Solzhenitsyn.
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This city inhabitants were so lived, if you were lucky not to get into communal housing. But in a village there was very hard.
There were quotas for eggs, oil, meat like in North Korea, most could not pass so much and had to buy from a kolkhoz. Soup from bones ate not from a good life. For a free house, a percentage of salary for fifteen years was subtracted.
My great-grandfather was repressed for the fact that he had lapties (bast shoe), and the neighbor did not have them. In the village of another great-grandfather, a lot of people were jail on delation, and then the snitch himself was jail on the delation.
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What mad dictatorship anywhere hasn't been good for the loyal followers of the dictator? The free homes came from ethnic and political cleaninsing on a scale far surpassing Nazi Germany. But I wouldn't call it free if it's paid by someone's life.
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Social welfare in USSR was good only ıf you compare wıth African countries, but not with countries like US, UK or Germany , for example.
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Are you serious now? And at what stage? Do you know that the United States was the last to abolish slavery? Yes, formally the Russian Empire abolished serfdom, but in fact it was done by the USSR, and before the United States. Although serfdom is not the same thing as slavery.
Serfdom, against the backdrop of slavery in the states, was much more humane.
Moreover, because of the USSR, America had to improve the social protection of ordinary citizens. And we can say that the rivalry began.
It’s funny, of course, they demanded more socialism from the socialist system and called it totalitarian...
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Very funny, thanks. Now I know, that using own citizens to build bridge or canal and give them nothing but poor food еat and cold barn to sleep is "not slavery" in USSR style.
"Serfdom, against the backdrop of slavery in the states, was much more humane." That's good joke. So when landlord use you as a bet in poker - it's a humanism. Ok.
"Moreover, because of the USSR, America had to improve the social protection of ordinary citizens. And we can say that the rivalry began" Yes, of course. And not because trade unions fight for their rights, but because there was USSR. That's why a lot of people run away from USA to the socialist paradise. Oh, wait! It was the other way around - a lot of people ran away from you favorite USSR to the god damned imperialistic West!
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Yes, it was more humane, but worsened and almost became equal to slavery before the abolition.
The peasants paid tribute, and the rest remained at their disposal.
If the wealthy had not been dispossessed, there would have been no food at all. This whole situation is thanks to the king.
Thank you, I see how effective trade unions are in the same gaming industry. Funny.
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Yes, it was more humane Yes, of course to be a bet in the poker is more humane, then to have a chance to became a black landlord. You are so funny. Look like it was good for you to live in German in 1930-th.
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And in general it turns out funny, you do not take into account the prerequisites and the fact that much developed or degraded (such as serfdom) not in an instant.
However, in Russia there are many of the same non-stressing citizens who divide everything into black and white. All this is due to blind empathy for relatives, however, I can understand. Although my relatives also fell under repression, they were able to get hold of at least two houses and livestock, even under the USSR. I will repeat the phrase said to another person about those fleeing to the USA: "And know that there are also reverse cases, when people who come to you return to their "swamps"."
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Although my relatives also fell under repression, they were able to get hold of at least two houses and livestock, even under the USSR. And they have their own farm, business and was free to go to Hawai twice a year. Great fairytale.
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And I'm told this by a man whose country loves the smell of carnage in the morning... You don't even know that Putin is an anti-Soviet. Under this government, we actively replaced the concept of the Soviet people with the Russian people, who lived in defiance of the USSR. In the same films of "high" quality. You also do not know that he is far from the most important. In the "holy" nineties, the oligarchs fought for power over Russia. And it was those who were able to take power into their own hands that chose him in the form of a picture. Well, I knew you were stubborn. But as practice shows, many people believe that the same presidents in the United States are not just puppets on strings. Naive. Well, I can only wish you good luck in the distribution.
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You don't even know that Putin is an anti-Soviet.
Of course. The KGBist is anti-Soviet. Wa-ha-ha.
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But it’s not funny to me... I think you will find the video yourself, but I will attach a link to the full text version. The text version is fully consistent with the video message. And he said a lot of things in a similar spirit...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.interfax.ru/amp/823522
ХРОНИКА
Военная операция на Украине
В РОССИИ
21:58, 21 февраля 2022
Обращение Владимира Путина к россиянам в связи с ситуацией на Донбассе. Текст
Москва. 21 февраля. INTERFAX.RU - В понедельник вечером президент РФ Владимир Путин обратился к россиянам с видеообращением, чтобы проинформировать их о принимаемых решениях в связи с критическим характером ситуации в Донбассе. Приводим полный текст этого обращения, которое транслировалось основными телеканалами страны.
...Закономерно, что красный террор и быстрый переход к сталинской диктатуре, господство коммунистической идеологии и монополия компартии на власть, национализация и плановая система народного хозяйства ‒ всё это на деле превратило в простую декларацию, в формальность заявленные, но неработающие принципы государственного устройства. Никаких суверенных прав в реальности у союзных республик так и не возникло, их попросту не было. А на практике было создано строго централизованное, абсолютно унитарное по своему характеру государство.
Сталин по факту полностью реализовал на практике не ленинские, а именно свои собственные идеи государственного устройства. Но соответствующих изменений в системообразующие документы, в Конституцию страны не внёс, провозглашённые ленинские принципы построения СССР формально не пересматривал. Да, судя по всему, казалось, что в этом и не было необходимости ‒ в условиях тоталитарного режима и так всё работало, а внешне выглядело красиво, привлекательно и даже сверхдемократично...
...It is natural that the Red Terror and the rapid transition to the Stalinist dictatorship, the dominance of the communist ideology and the Communist Party's monopoly on power, nationalization and the planned system of the national economy - all this in fact turned into a simple declaration, into a formality, the declared, but non-working principles of the state system. In reality, the union republics did not have any sovereign rights, they simply did not exist. But in practice, a strictly centralized, absolutely unitary state was created.
Stalin, in fact, fully implemented in practice not Lenin's, but his own ideas of state structure. But he did not make the corresponding changes to the backbone documents, to the Constitution of the country, did not formally revise the proclaimed Leninist principles of building the USSR. Yes, apparently, it seemed that there was no need for this - in the conditions of a totalitarian regime, everything worked anyway, and outwardly it looked beautiful, attractive and even super-democratic...
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Serfdom is literally a debt bondage or indentured servitude, so listening to someone try to convince others that "it's better than slavery" is disastrously funny at best, and deliberately propagandistic at worst. Serfdom Is slavery in all but name.
Here's some interesting history for you:
1808, the US Legislature bans the trade of slaves.
1865 13th Amendment is adopted to the US Constitution, banning all slavery, to include indentured servitude.
1861 Russian Emperor Alexander II issues Emancipation of Russian serfs, yet to this day, indentured servitude is still a common practice in Russia, and Emancipation of State owned Serfs didn't happen until 1866.
So please, spare us with the "The USSR was humanistic" rhetoric, Russia, and later the USSR, literally owned people by law.
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Oh, so are you doing well today?
The monument to George Washington is not being demolished and racism has been defeated so much that there is no need for BLM?
And know that there are also reverse cases, when people who come to you return to their "swamps". And why do you think that immediately after the adoption of the amendment, slavery immediately disappeared from you? A little lower, reminding me of what I already know, you yourself are a contradiction. And why does America not want to give freedom to the states in its territory that want to secede? Are you not for freedom? But the Soviet Union gave Ukraine freedom. Although before that, as a full-fledged country, Ukraine did not exist, due to the mistakes of the Ukrainian princes.
And by the way, most of you do not see the difference between the peoples of the CIS until you are told.
I have a Ukrainian friend who is being bullied in Australia because she lived in Dombas, although she arrived in Australia long before all the events and did not know that this would happen. Some people think that she is Russian.
Her five-year-old son is also being bullied, although he does not understand what is happening at all.
We are all propagandists of our point of view in one way or another.
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That pussy Biden just talks about sanctions. Putin doesn't give a flying **ck about sanctions. Either NATO mans up and show they have balls or Putin will do what he wants
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What do you want him to do? Carpet bomb Moscow? Drag the whole world into a nuclear conflict with a mad man? Economic sanctions is the only thing that Putin fears because his money props up his massive ego.
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well, let's be honest, russian propaganda is obsessed with yugoslavia for a reason. also, situation slightly changed, lol.
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Of course not. But more NATO troops in the east is a good start. More ,military bases.
If not he wont stop.
I dint belive he will be like hitler, but he is.
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I don't know if it would help. Putin is delusional and he truly thinks he is invincible. And he is one of the two dictators who is insane enough to use his nuclear arsenal without giving a shit about what happens next so it's pointless to think he could be threaten or reason with.
His narcissism prevents him from perceiving logic or reason.
The threat of military action would only make him act up more to prove he's not scared of anything. That's why he is also laughing off economic sanctions. The only difference is military actions would only escalate toward disaster. Economic sanctions will hurt him but he doesn't realize that yet.
And you are right, he is just like Hitler. He is clinically mentally imbalanced. I used to think he didn't end up with a bullet in the head when he first showed up because the CIA thought "the devil you know..." and they wanted someone to prevent the rise of communism in Eastern Europe. Yeah, well, now you know your devil and he isn't any better than the one you don't, that's for sure.
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It would help Poland and Baltic countries which are next in the line.
We need more NATO presence asap.
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what do you expect from someone that was actually in KGB?
also let's be honest, half the worlds problems are actual either CIA's doing or they had a hand in it, they also helped the afghan's fight against Soviets, and they helped the same people we now know as Taliban because they wanted someone to fight against the soviets, then there is the 79 revolution in Iran, the support for Saddam while he invaded Iran, I mean they gave some Nazis free pass just to help them take down Che Guevara, if I'm not mistaken one of them being Klaus Barbie.
unfortunately politics today is as dirty as it was a 100 years ago or before that the only difference is that people over the world come to accept some of the atrocities as OK.
I just hope the madness ends, in every situation the civilians and innocents pay the price not the ones in power.
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also let's be honest, half the worlds problems are actual either CIA's doing or they had a hand in it
Yeah that's for damn sure. They surely aren't playing the long game, are they?
I just hope the madness ends, in every situation the civilians and innocents pay the price not the ones in power.
I'm afraid that will never end. We are just pawns on the battlefield for dictator with narcissistic disorders playing a dick contest.
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but the United States is the only country to use nuclear weapons
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Better that than praise Putin as a "genius" and his moves to carve up Ukraine as :savvy", no?
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Literally been a talking point for months. and the US media and government have been told to stop fear mongering and over-hyping, by the Ukranian president.
Multiple countries have been sending troops and military equipment to Ukraine since December.
There's a weird patter, where Russia seems to go on the offensive right before the Olympics every 4 years, so this was projected to happen, and the troop buildup has been going on for at least the past 6 months.
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There's a weird patter, where Russia seems to go on the offensive right before the Olympics every 4 years
Wow. It's like Season Affected Disorder with the Olympics? Did they not win enough medals for Putin to be able to get it up or...?
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The pattern that was being discussed was that it happens right before the Olympics, or during the first week or something.
Like they're taking advantage of the distraction.
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Putin is a human like everybody else. And he is bound by same restraints which binds every human body. Regardless of all the media created hype, all governments are man-made institutions. Once you stop acknowledging them, they are worthless. If no one follows orders, no one can make you follow orders. Lethargy is the best means to avoid every war. Our Russian friends could do the same. Become lazy and no one can force you to be on the battlefield.
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Agree about language: look at spanish - half of the world speaks it, but no one calls philippines' people castillians on that basis.
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Decent video. And a good reason why Ukrainians wouldn't be too excited about being Russian subjects again.
Not to mention plenty of generally great reasons not to depend on Putin's benevolence.
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Finland understand it perfectly since we too are still getting punished by the language of our invaders and slave traders.
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Having the same language do bring people together. There is many french speaking countries or cultures I have a HUGE sympaty for just because they speak my language. This kind of feeling do exist, and I think it's probably the same to a minor extent when you learn any new language, as understanding of new people brings you awareness of their life struggles but also of the positive aspects of their existence.
But I honnestly thinks Putin just see Ukraine as a nice bundle of ressources to keep being able to maintain his power over the world since he's begginning to understand the world don't need his ressources anymore (at least way less).
This never was about culture at all.
I stand with Ukrainian folks, this whole situation is madness.
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thx for sharing this for bigger world community
hope that more people will be acknowledged about us and this freakin' war
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You mean a bigger war. There was a war going on for 8 years in Ukrain directed by Russia
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Sure. But the war has been frozen for years already. I hope it doesn't expand again
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you replied to my statement that the war is going on since 2014 directed by Russia with a rather empty statement. If you do not agree come with evidence to the contrary
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Your statement that the war has been going on since 2014 with the support of Russia is an empty statement. Where is the proof? Personal opinion is not evidence. With the same success, I can blame, for example, the United States for everything.
You have no proof of your words to demand something from me)) All this is empty talk based on speculation and the desire to believe in one or the other. No one here has any proof of their words. Only personal opinion or subjective view. Solid anger and desire to find a convenient enemy. Peace begins in our hearts. You can't ask for peace when you exude hate.
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well lets start with this
1) Russia lost control over Ukrain in 2014 when Viktor Yanukovych fled
2) Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 because they wanted the seaport Sebastopol
3) To further destabilize Ukraine Russia supported militia in Donbas.. And later even supplied troops.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations#Annexation_of_Crimea_and_war_in_eastern_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass
The only real solution in my opinion is the removal of Putin from power because he is a crazy power monger
Anf if you are from Russia just think about all the wealth Putin has stolen from Russia and its people
And think about what the consequences will be of his current war for Russia and its people
At the moment the actions of Russia (war, killing of civilians, looting, raping) is creating a lot of hate.
The irony is that Russia is doing exactly what they used as an invented excuse to invade Ukraine.
So sorry for me Russia is the villain in this war and I wish them a whole lot of bad karma/.
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Why do you think such articles are true? Why do you think that the media of different countries do not lie, but only the media of Russia lies? From an objective point of view. There are no saints in this world. Any country defends its interests. Why shouldn't Russia do this? For example, America has unleashed many wars, calling it a peacekeeping mission, but no one cares. What a hypocritical policy)) It is not reasonable to believe Wikipedia articles and TV news as the ultimate truth. That's all.
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Just like the one and only truth in Russia ?
I value the freedom of opinion here in the Netherlands.
So I am wondering why do you blindly trust the goverment of Russia or are you just a troll ?
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Who said that I trust? I'm just saying that absolutely everyone is lying and you don't need to believe everything you see, hear or read.
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I ain't religious, but god hope that man gets his brains and soul back :(
Quite anxious times ahead for all of us - the neighbours of Russia
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He is "checkist" - that people stands behind solders and shoot them in the back if they refuse to attack enemy lines.
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A little history lesson for Putler.)
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Kyiv - Founded AD 482 (officially)
Novgorod - 859 - is considered the year of the first mention of Novgorod in n chronicles. But the data of archaeological research showed that "cities in the ninth century not yet »
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Just learn history, The first Capital was Novgorod, and Kyiv was not founded in 482 oficially. That's all. I don't care of all your discussion here.
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You need to have a war with ukranians to win an argument what began earlier - Kyiv or Novgorod. Also Novgorod wasn't a capital of Putins Russia and has nothing common with it - it was a democratic republic, political system hated by putinists
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"Just learn history"
great arguments all around, LOL, get lost you absolute muppet
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So you say you can use Wikipedia as a source on Novgorod Land, but you can't use Wikipedia as a source for the founding of Kyiv?
If Wikipedia is not your source, can you please point me in the right direction, because right now it looks like you are cherry picking your info to fit your narrative.
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You mean that (Verkhny) Novgorod which was subdued to Moscow with fire & sword, and totally lost it political posture ever since, staying just a little unimportant town? Very much on point btw, because that's exactly the fate Kyiv tries to escape right now.
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+1
I'm sure glad, that Poland was able to join NATO before Putin's times. Still, those things remind me of 1938 Sudeten Crisis and Munich Betrayal. First time in my life (and I'm over 60), that I really feel, that at any moment we may annihilate ourselves with nukes.
I don't know, how we could stop him about Ukraine, I don't believe, that he will care about economic sanctions, but if we don't, tomorrow we all may be dying for Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania or even Poland. Really, I feel, that it's like 1938, and the question is, how will our 1939, 1940 and 1941 turn out :( .
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Только двоечник мог эту ахинею состряпать. Первой столицей Руси была Ладога. А церкви эти восстановлены и достроены когда Киев был в составе РИ.
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look what they did to Afghanistan, same scenario is gonna happen to Ukraine sadly, and every other country is looking for their profit when it starts to separate into pieces, human lives does not matter anymore unfortunately. big powers already made their deals behind the curtains and all the rest is just a show.
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The Soviet Union did that to Afghanistan, but Soviet Union is no more. It forced atheism and persecuted Christians and other religious minorities in Russia and terrorized many of its own citizens, but modern Russia is different and has no imperial ambitions, unlike what's being repeated in the media, assumptions without any proofs.
On the other hand, the imperialist US has just withdrawn its troops from Afghanistan and no one ever sheds a light on it, and it's been fueling the neo-nazi groups in Ukraine for years.
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Russia is The Soviet Union 2.0. and also they were Russian back then and last time I checked they are still Russian. also I don't take any sides, I'm just saying super powers don't care for innocent lives losses in wars. they only looking for their profits, as what US did in Afghanistan. also China and Russia were the first nations to salute Taliban when they took over the country and trying so hard to legitimate those terrorists.
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Здесь есть видео о реальной ситуации в Украине за последние годы, отвечающее на многие вопросы.
Видео создано совместными усилиями двух российских блогеров - Максима Каца и Варламова.
Видео на ютубе на русском!
Здесь видео из далёкого 2014 года, уже тогда было ясно для чего РФ тогда устроила эти так называемые "республики"! Автора после этого видео убрали через месяц.
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Не в обиду - Каца и Варламова слушать то ещё удовольствие. Мнения меняют как носовые платки
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лаврик и пуйло тоже говорили ещ' год назад, что восттанавливать союз и нападать на Украину єто безумие и никто єтого делать не будет. пацан сказал - пацан по*ерил.
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Oh boy. Another truth crusader who thinks he knows everything better than everyone else.
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And so superior to us, that he*she doesn't even need to state an real argument or explanation :D
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So you are here to troll? Why not enlighten us by pointing out the obvious lies?
It's very easy to yell "Lies!" and not elaborate, but nobody will take you serious.
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You hate lies and believe everything in Soviet propaganda, does not compute!
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You look Russian to me... Maybe you are in denial.
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(ЕЛЛОВВ) чел если ты и вправду за правду и придерживаешься нейтральной стороны и не хочешь лжи тогда захлопнись и пакуй чемодан,едь в Украину и своими глазами посмотри на весь этот ужас который творит путенская рашка.
А так ты просто сейчас выглядишь очередным кремлеботом...
Слава Украине братцы!!!
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I honestly don't understand the "if someone speaks a language coming from country X, they should belong to that country" mentality.
We have the whole of USA speaking English (more or less ;-) ), and yet I seem to remember there was some sort of a declaration saying in no uncertain terms that they were independent of England or the British Empire.
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Why are you poorly educated? Why Sun isn't a black hole? And why people need to breath air, not oxygen?!
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There are plans of a referendum in scotland, right ?
Any plans for referendum in ukraine, russia or belarus ?
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Or why Spain won't let Catalonia go? They speak even different language
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I don't know (nor claim to know). I'm saying the argument by language is an invalid one.
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Ukraine was a part of Russia (USSR, Russian empire) for more then 1000 years. And it's obvious that a lot of russians (I mean nationality not citizenship) live in Ukraine, as a lot of ukranians live in Russia. Argument is not a language at all.
The only part of Ukrain which never belongs to Russia (before USSR) is Western Ukraine. This part of Ukraine most of time belongs to Poland. In 2014 neo-nazzis from Western Ukraine with US help occupied goverment, and started kill russians in Ukraine (in Odessa, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk, Dnepr, Zaporozhie) during 8 years. They make a lot of terror and a lot of propaganda to scare people.Some people belive in this propaganda (for example the creator of this thread), but other have their own head on the shoulders. In most part of Ukraine people still don't think that Russia is an enemy, they don't want this proeuropean goverment (in rality it's neo-nazzi goverment) in Ukraine, and they want to stop this suffering which lasts for 8 years after so called revolution in 2014.
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So you believe if some country has revolution you may just come and kill it's citizens based on that? Only neo-nazi I see here is you.
All Ukraine asks from Russia is to FUCK OFF. We want to live in our country, and live the way we want it. If somebody is suffering here - they are not prisoners, they can immigrate to Russia this very moment, and actually get a lot of help with that.
In most part of Ukraine people still don't think that Russia is an enemy, they don't want this proeuropean goverment
That's just outright lies. Unlike Russia we have our president chosen by election. But I guess you have no idea what it mean, you are too used to have same tsar for life.
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So you believe if some country has revolution you may just come and kill it's citizens based on that?
Какая революция? Революция это коренная смена политического строя. Смена монархии на республику это революция. А замена одного олигарха при власти на другого это государственный переворот. И кто кого убивал ещё? После переворота люди на всей Юго-восточной Украине восстали против этого. От Одессы до Харькова. За что такие нацики как ты начали сжигать их заживо и бомбить мирные города. Россия ввела войска только сейчас, если ты не заметил этого. А понять что это действительно произошло только сейчас можно лишь по реакции правительства которое обосралось по полной, и начало валить из страны.
И что то когда в США сторонники Трампа штурмовали капитолий, то по ним открыли огонь на поражение. Надо было наверное и Януковичу так поступить, не было бы тогда никаких военных действий сейчас, и переворота никакого бы не было.
If somebody is suffering here - they are not prisoners, they can immigrate to Russia this very moment, and actually get a lot of help with that.
Из-за таких вот высказываний Крым взял и ушел к России целиком. Если ты такой идиот что и дальше призываешь к такому, то ещё больше людей только обьединится и уйдут уже другие области.
Unlike Russia we have our president chosen by election.
В Украине был выбор между Порошенко (читай кучей дерьма), и Зеленским (человеком который обещал посадить Порошенко и всю его шайку и завершить наконец все военные действия). Люди голосовали по факту не за Зеленского, а против Порошенка. Они голосовали не за войну, а против этого. Но как мы видим Зеленский за время своей каденции не выполнил никаких своих обещаний и откровенно пиздел народу
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Speak English, moron, so that everyone could see your bullshit.
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Another kremlebot-HammerFall93
I'm from Kharkov. And now tell me when they rebelled in Kharkov or burned someone alive before 24/02/2022.
Putin's mongrel
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Respectfully, I am going to write how you sound :
"We want America to be how we want. If a black person is suffering here - they are not prisoners, they can immigrate to Africa this very moment"
Why should anybody be uprooted from the place they were born, where their family and friends are, to go to a foreign country? Not supporting Russia here, but the rights of minorities should always be protected. I didn't write the easy Germany-jews comparison.
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So, who exactly invaded America because there were slavery?
Or, if you want to keep this comparison - need I to remind you how America was initially a colony? Do you REALLY believe England and Germany and what not should now invade America and kill Americans to take control of this land? Are you insane?
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I never said that.
Please, read what I said. You sounded like you wanted to get rid of all those people that don't agree with you and send them to Russia, same way racist wanted to send all black people in the US to Africa. I don't want a war. I just said that rights of minorities have always to be protected.
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I never said that I want to get rid of them. I also don't see any pressure on those people, and none of their rights violated. I said that if, despite of no pressure and full rights, they feel that they are suffering here - they are free to go. And yes, I can tell the same about some black people in US too - they don't have the right to break into stores and houses just because they believe they are disadvantaged minority. (Protests that does not involve violation of other people's property are justified though)
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I was carefully trying to be polite, just trying to point out the problems I saw in your comment, and clearly not taking the side of Putin.
I really don't see the need to blacklist me, or calling me insane, or accusing me of wanting to invade America, just saying
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Sorry, I'm overreacting a bit. This war makes me nervous, please forgive me.
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I think Ryzhehvost's point was merely that the Putin stooges who started the "unrest" in Ukraine to justify Putin moving troops to the border to "protect Russia" against what should be a civil conflict in a foreign country could just go live in Russia if they want to be Russians.
It's the same old scheme: create "civil unrest" from your supporters in another country and then invade it to "protect peace".
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You are correct. My problem is that eastern europe has a long history of "If only this [insert minority here] wasn't there, and instead moved to [insert a country where your ascestor moved from, but you haven't visited ever]. Mmmm. I can help with the moving...", and that's where innocent people suffer consequences. Polish civilians forcefully moved from Ukraine into Poland by force, ukranians civilians moved from Poland into Ukraine by force, Stalin moving minorities across the soviet Union by force, germans civilians being expelled from their homes after WWII, jews being expelled from everywhere, etc.
So, the whole "if they don't like it, they can move" sounds dangerous.
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I see your point. It's not only Eastern Europe sadly. It's a long long tradition all over but it's particularly visible in Easter European history.
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The problem is there are self-identified Russians in Eastern-Ukraine that say that everything is bad in Ukraine, they wish Ukraine was Russia, but instead of moving to Russia they want Russia to invade Ukraine and turn Ukraine into Russia.
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Are you serious? Propaganda to scare people?
So you mean Putin didn't move massive troops at the border to "protect the border" from nothing at all and that he didn't threaten nuclear retaliation on anyone making a move against him?
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Why catalonians speak spanish? Why scottish people speak english? Sadly Putin fans won't be able to understand that someday
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Catalonians speak Catalan, but as you said you are poorly educated
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Another stupid putin fan who never been in Catalonia, but regularly watches Putin-TV
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yup, and also those two have 2 different situations, first they are separatists not loyalist to another nation, they don't want to join another country, they want themselves to be totally independent, and also second reason, they have not successfully become independent for whatever the reason, meaning if they had become and Spain or England would try to attack them to revert that independence the situation would not be different much either with what Russia is doing.
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Most catalonians speak Spanish, actually. Same way most Scottish speak English.
Language doesn't have anything to do with it. Canadians, Americans speak English, Mexicans speak Spanish
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Same thing in Ukraine. 90% of people speaks russian
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The official language of Ukraine is Ukrainian, an East Slavic language, which is the native language of 67.5% of Ukraine's population. Russian is the native language of 29.6% of Ukraine's population and the rest (2.9%) are native speakers of other languages.
And you moron is talking about education…
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I don't know where are you taking your info. But I think, as citizen of Ukraine I know situation much better then you.
Here you can check google statistics about language in each region of Ukraine. And only 3 regions have 50% of ukranian speakers, in other 24 regions more then 70% (in 15 regions even more then 90%) of peaple are russian speaking
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I’m Ukrainian as well so dont try to persuade me that 90% of people speak Russian. That’s bullshit.
Which 3 regions have 50% moron? Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk for example have 84 and 92% of Ukrainian speaking population correspondingly. You’re trying manipulate data that are in your imagination and you would like it to be true. I lived in Kharkiv, Dnipro and in Lviv, so East, Middle and West of Ukraine, and while Russian was more popular on East, there was never anything close to 90%. So go sell your propaganda elsewhere.
The link you’d provided is reflecting google query of word ‘Ukraine’ in different languages in Google trends…
You’re really dumb if you correlate this date with usage of certain language in Ukraine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine
https://ua.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/750206-amp.html
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I know Spanish as well, but my mother language is Ukrainian.
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The link that I gave shows in which language information is most often requested on the territory of Ukraine. If you had brains, then you would understand that you can try to look at other words by entering them in Russian, Ukrainian and any other language, and see where on the territory of Ukraine they request information more often and in what language. It's realtime statistics. You can watch it for any period of time. But you did not have enough brains for this, as we see.
You give links to Wikipedia, in which anyone can edit the information, and a link to the Ukrainian propaganda resource.
Here you can look at independent research. So stop tell bullshit
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You’re retard. Please educate yourself how does google trends work.
This ‘independent’ source is reliable the same as Putin Huilo words. Data from 2007… You have really slow internet… below you can find research article from Sciendo, one of the best and most trustful publishers
https://sciendo.com/pdf/10.1515/jnmlp-2017-0008
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Ukrainian prevails in the sphere of public administration and education. Russian dominates in most mass media.
If you only could read your own abstracts. There clearly were told that in real life pople use russian. They talk to each other in russian language, they watch TV in russian, read books in russian, search in internet in russian. But seems that you never been in Ukraine, and even couldn't understand what are you reading and talking about
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Аякже ж я не був в Україні, недолугий покидьку. І мови української не знаю і російська то як матінка рідна для нас...
Іди подрочи на свій совок неотесаний Ємєля.
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Видимо аргументы кончились. Остались только оскорбления. Идиот
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Нет, ты наверное никуда не выезжал дальше своего села просто. Не был ни в Днепре, ни в Харькове, ни в Одессе, ни даже в Киеве. А уж про Донецк и Луганск вообще молчу
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I don't remember the last time TV was in Russian, what the fuck are you talking about?
Some people watch Russian channels (not anymore though lmao), but our television is in Ukrainian and even Russian programmes are voiced over in Ukrainian.
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I never had problem with languge at all, I’m speaking freely in 8 languages including Russian and Polish.
And probably you know that Ukrainian language is more close to Polish rather than Russian.
This is only my opinion, but I prefer to have only one official language in Ukraine - Ukrainian. Same time I don’t have any problems with Russian language be widely spread among Ukrainians, because that’s their choice not mine.
What I can confirm that Polish people are proud of their language and that’s the thing that unite whole nation.
True that they’re joking about some inner accents like ‘goralska gwara’ but the same is applicable to Ukraine as well in Zakarpattya for example. ‘Поникай по хижі‘ which means ‘Look for it inside house’ is quite different from official Ukrainian ‘Пошукай в хаті / помешканні‘. But this is applicable for almost every country. In Catalan and Spanish even simple ‘Next stop’ phrase sound differently ‘Propera Parada’ and ‘Proxima Parada’. And that’s what’s doing that and our language unique.
But still this is just my point of view.
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I was refering to lexic
According to analytics:
‘ У лексичному плані найближчою до української є білоруська мова (84 % спільної лексики), потім польська (70 % спільної лексики), словацька (68 % спільної лексики) та російська мова (62 % спільної лексики)’
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"HammerFall93" where did the Kremlinbot have such numbers, which was not even in Ukraine? I think that 50% will not be Russian speakers in Ukraine. Yes, most people in Kharkov speak Russian, including me. But starting from Poltava and its region to the west, people speak Ukrainian. But I want to note that everyone understands each other perfectly.
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chuckie001What language do the Mexicans speak there? And the Chinese?
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I was born in western Ukraine, Transcarpathia, but I have been living in Russia for a long time, I am far from politics, but I know one thing, the countries participating in the war will benefit, and ordinary people will suffer. Tears flow from my eyes just at the thought that Ukrainians and Russians can be enemies, they are fraternal peoples, any person is not an enemy to another person
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tym88.
were a brotherly people, but Putin has passed the point of no return. Take care brother
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Was it the mad tsar Putin who burned people alive in Odessa, OP? You don't know desires and fears of all the citizens and your viewpoint is extremely one-sided. I will not engage in pointless disputes here, but I want to ask people to always investigate versions of all sides if they want to get somewhat objective conclusions.
Inb4: I have relatives in the war zone and I don't support any oligarchy, be it Russian, Ukrainian, or American.
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I am pleasantly surprised to see a discreet and presumably open-minded reply, so thank you very much for such an attitude. I am certain that all oligarchies overall benefit here (though some individual oligarchs lose). Siding with any of them is falling victim to their respective propaganda.
SInce you seem to be open-minded enough, I would like to suggest you to try to challenge some of your own opinions. Please don't take it as some condescending lecture, I only waste time to write it since you seem to be able to genuinely listen to 'the other side' and this is how I slowly changed my opinions myself. It is clear to me that your views are formed by an echo chamber of some existing views, but it excludes some of the other existing views. And also they are very idealistic in nature.
The easiest way to introduce yourself to the other views is probably Anatoly Shary channel. He is extremly idealistic and somewhat hypocritical (he bashes Ukrainian oligarchy very hard while having no problems with the Russian one), so I don't suggest you to agree with him, just listen to him. A lot of the things he says are true and are often ignored by other media, and most importantly he represents views of many ukrainians that are marginalised now.
Probably the best one-piece representation of the other views (and some attempt of a materialst analysis) I know of is 'Общая судьба Украины и России: мы поражены общей болезнью', I highly reccomend watching it.
About idealistic perception of reality and why it is worse than materialistic - it is difficuld to explain my position in short. Well, let's say that idealism always simplifies the picture (and often in wrong ways). Like you see Putin as a tsar, while he is rather the frontman of the oligarchy and he wouldn't have made such decisions against their will. I think excellent source of examples of materealist analysis is 'Держать Курс' channel, maybe check some of their documentaries if they would seem to be interesting to you.
Sorry for the wall of text, I just really appreciate it when people are willing to be constructive.
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Oh, sorry if I assumed too much, just that what you wrote in the original post is very one sided and arguable (like for example about Russian language being forced for centuries while it is literally native language to the eastern Ukraine and if anything there was an attempt to enforce Ukrainian language there during the korenization policy) I could argue about some of those points (and add some points I consider important that you didn't include), but I really don't want to because I am absolutely fed up with these neverending disputes which are almost never constructive, so I hope you at least understand where I am coming from.
About internal matters remaining internal - yes I completely understand you, but it is naive to think it is possible, oligarch coalitions try to cannibalise each other all the time, always at the cost of the common people. I understand your concerns about Ukraine as a state too, though I came to not really caring about states\countries much, especially when they don't serve interests of the people, I now rather care about nations\peoples over all.
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YES, I 100% agree here, and I can't believe that all the politicians were just this incompetent to not implement it. It is such an obvious move and still no of Ukrainian goverments tried to rely on it instead of relying on one of nationalist extremes. And even when it got really bad with the coup and separatism, external powers which formed the Normandy Format could have pushed Ukrainian goverment from both sides to such policies but they haven't really tried to. So I think important decision makers were either in favor of or didn't mind such outcomes, no way they wouldn't have tried it if they really had cared about preventing the conflinct.
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Those were poor peaceful pro-putin people (their photo attached) who defended russian puppet president
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I have been following the news on this and think this video summarises the situation in an unbiased way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UpnWYCuSs
From what i undestand from following the news,
The conflict begins with a little bit of history when ukraine was part of the soviet union with heavy ties to russia (basically russia is like the big brother of ukraine at that time).
In 1990s, when the soviet union dissolved, ukraine, which gained independence. There, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia signed a treaty that they — would "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."
In 2000s, there was a struggle between pro-EU presidents and pro-russian presidents with accusations of rigging from pro-russian side. But pro-EU president finally prevails and they plan to join NATO. (which was paused due to opposition from Russia and some NATO countries, as Russia feels that the expansion of NATO eastwards is threatening due to them having missle systems directly at the borders of Russia)
In 2010s, the pro-russian side won the election and states that ukraine should be neutral.
In late 2013-14, the pro-russian then-president announces that he will refuse to sign an association agreement with the European Union and cites pressure from Russia which resulted in the Revolution of Dignity.
This resulted in the then-president fleeing ukraine to russia when pro-EU protesters occupied government buildings in a coup.
Russia declares that the change in Ukraine's government is an illegal coup and might be influened by the west.
This started alot of problems in Ukraine, mainly the Donbas War and Annexation of Crimea
To stop the civil war, Minsk agreements were drafted but the fighting between pro-EU and pro-Russian forces continue in eastern Ukraine.
But due to the constant meddling of Russia in Ukraine, it has pushed majority of the ukraine people to be more aligned with NATO as opposed to Russia currently.
Presently, Ukraine has been requesting military aid from NATO coutnries like US and Germany, but has been faced with lack-lustre response (might be due to the cheap russia gas Europe depends on, especially when the countries have been shutting down their own nuclear energy plants).
Also, Russia feels that Ukraine did not uphold their end in the Minsk agreements, and so declared it void and amassed troops near Ukraine borders which started the conflicts now.
Russia has also recognised Donetsk and Luhansk in the Donbas region as idenpendent state (which US rejects) and sent troops to aid them, because he says that he wants to protect them from ukraine aggression (even though technically they are still under ukraine based on international law).
Ukraine current-president feels that not enough is done by NATO to help them so far but will still try their best by themselves to avoid the conflict (Interview of ukraine president)
Why the conflict is happening now
What Russia wants:
1). A legally binding pledge that Nato will not expand further. (i.e. Ukraine will never join NATO)
2). Nato to not deploy "strike weapons near Russia's borders"
3). Nato to removes forces and military infrastructure from member states that joined the alliance from 1997
What NATO says:
1). Nato has an open-door policy to new members, and its 30 member states are adamant that will not change. But there is no prospect of Ukraine joining NATO for a long time
2). Nato is a defensive alliance
3). "Transparency mechanism" of mutual checks on missile bases
In my opninon, Russia feels that the west are making too many moves against them and wanting Ukraine in NATO (and building missle system there) is the last straw, while the west feels that Russia is too overbearing on Ukraine (who should be able to make their own decisions as an indenpendent state and what russia is doing is a violation of Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty).
On top of feeling threatened, Russia wants to use this opportunity to show their power, both from their military/nuclear prowess and their supply of cheap gas like the Nord Stream because they were a huge power back in the days, and now it seems they are getting bullied with nobody willing to listen to them.
Some people also feel Russia might be starting this because Russia's economy is not doing well, so they want to create a distraction.
I feel Ukraine is stuck in between NATO and Russia where there is nothing to gain for Ukraine as NATO and Russia postures to show their might and Ukraine might be the only one that can get themselves out of that position.
Edit:
This is a long but good video by University of Chicago on why the geopolitics in ukraine that led to the conflict and I highly recommend watching through it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
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Basically 3 scenarios for Ukraine here:
1) Pro-NATO allie
2) Neutral state (no chances to survive against enemies nearby and steadily leads to Scenario 3)
3) End up as a pro-russian puppet state
An unenviable fate to choose from any of those 3 bad options!
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There are two scenarios:
- Being independent
- Being Russian colony.
Some may not agree, but I believe 2 is much worse.
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Sadly, being independent is never a scenario in such case. You're already in a huge debt before the USA and the EU. So even if you somehow get rid of Russian presence completely they'll still exploit you for their purposes.
See Baltic states. They think themselves independent but they're actually not. De facto they're still slaves, only not to the USSR but to the USA. Same goes for pretty much every former communist block country (Poland, Romania etc). And they all will be used as fodder if it comes to a large conflict.
Or take Japan, which was rebuilt with american money after the WWII and now can't get rid of american influence even if they want it. And Japan is a much stronger country than Ukraine or any Eastern European country will ever be.
I think there's only about a dozen of truly independent countries in the world. Even the politically insignificant (no offense meant) countries in Africa or Oceania or Caribbean are in fact someone's lapdogs.
I wish every country was truly independent. Without anyone butting into other countries business, without multinational organizations and other global entities with their dubious agendas. But it seems impossible. :/
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I'm not talking about being "truly independent", it's basically impossible. If influence of Russia were only limited to economics - I would say "well, that's bad, but that's how it works for everyone". It's like, I don't know... I, for example, almost always buy bread and yogurt in the same shop. So, in a way, I depend on this shop. And that's normal. But if they will tell me one day "you can't buy wine anywhere else but our shop, otherwise we won't sell you bread and yogurt anymore, and if you won't be buying wine even then - we will find you and beat shit out of you!" - well, that's when I will say they are criminals.
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Independent? Ahahahahaha. our government is fu**** puppets dancing to someone else's tune!
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With the recent updates on the conflict, it reminds me alot of the korean situation around the cold war period, where soviet union influenced the North while NATO influenced the South which escalated into the cold war with heavy threat of nuclear war. At that time, it seems the Korea War was due to the expanding presence of Soviet Union that threatened NATO and they wanted to stop it in Korea.
I didnt know the Cold War lastest so long (till 1991) and that it is still in recent memory, so I would suggest young ukrainians to read up on that, because it seems to be the main trigger for the conflict now and they could learn much from the Korean situation.
Now it seems that Ukraine is facing the same problem as Korea, where West Ukraine is supported by NATO, while East Ukraine (at least Donbas region and assuming Putin plans to take Eastern Ukraine) is supported by remnants of the soviet union. In this time, it seems the Ukraine War (if it happens) might be due to the expanding presence of NATO that threatened Russia (old-soviet union).
Hopefully the Ukraine conflict will not escalate into the scale of the Korea War where millions died.
But this makes me think there might be a 4th scenrio:
4) Ukraine is split into West and East Ukraine (similar to how Korea was split into South and North Korea).
Although that is also a bad situation, but on the bright side, if West Ukraine was to emulate the progress of South Korea (GDP of SK is alot higher than NK), it might be for the better.
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OP is basing the entire thread of not wanting Ukraine to be part of Russia, which is a false problem. Russia wanting to annex Ukraine is a baseless claim that has been circulating for a very long time that's it's a truth now.
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Sure, they never wanted to annex Crimea and support terrorists on donbass too, yeah.
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Crimea was given as a gift by Soviet Union back in 1954. Its people never signed up for that and a referendum was made to join back, we should respect its sovereignty (I guess we can't do that if the US doesn't approve though)
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Yeah, there was a referendum after Russian military marched in Crimea. Do you really think that there was any chance for the pro-Ukraine side to win that referendum with Russian soldiers on the streets?
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They accidently invaded Crimea and Donbass regions, sure. Their troops just stumbled and accidentally crossed the border with Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWotrc1YfQ
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There has also been an accidental genocide on the people of Donbass region as well, and an accidental will of the people of Crimea to join Russia as well.
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Kaliningrad region have will to join Germany or Poland from warm hugs of Putin's Russia, can we accidently go away like Crimea to Putin then?
And where are thousands of hidden corpses from "genocide" in Donbass?
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I'm from Donbass. I ain't see any genocide here. But sure, from Germany it can be seen better.
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they just reclassified the borders of Ukraine, then brought tanks and soldiers in uninvited. how is it a baseless claim when they are literally about to annex more of Ukraine? they've already annexed Crimea, a part of Ukraine. this is, by definition, a very strong base of a claim. Putin doesn't have the authority to just decide state border changes, that is how world war 3 starts and make no mistake, he is chancing world war 3 by invading ukraine.
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In late 2013-14, the pro-russian then-president announces that he will refuse to sign an association agreement with the European Union and cites pressure from Russia which resulted in the Revolution of Dignity.
This part is not true. If you will read about revolution of dignity - it had nothing to do with EU. It was provoked by stupid and violent decisions of current president. I don't know if it was stupidity or intentional provocation, but that's how it was. People were against this president, nothing more and nothing less.
fighting between pro-EU and pro-Russian forces continue in eastern Ukraine.
Again, not pro-EU. Ukrainian forces from one side and russian mercenaries (some of them, indeed, from the locals)from the other.
Other than that - pretty good summary, thank you.
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Interesting thoughts from finnish leftist:
https://twitter.com/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944
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Very good Twitter thread, and that is how I see it too.
Since 2014 Russia has stepped up it's propaganda with the goal of dividing the West, creating a rift between left and right, with its ultimate goal to start USSR 2.0 and stop the democratisation of Warsaw Pact countries.
And they have been very successful indeed.
They got the UK out of the EU, populist governments in a handful of EU countries, they got Trump into the White House, Covid misinformation made the gullible endanger their own health, and America's right-wing is funding Anti-mandate protests worldwide based on their propaganda.
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now that you mentioned this, I remembered something, a while back before the release of COD cold war this trailer was released by Activision that actually had no footage of the Game itself, it was cold war era footage, then this dude on YouTube made a video and explained what a soviet defector, Yuri Bezmenov stated was actually being carried out subtly without anyone knowing, and if that's really true the government unknowingly makes every change happen.
but I personally hope the world changes, this reminds me of the movie "The Day Earth Stood Still", humanity is truly only destroying itself and earth with it.
Humanity needs to change.
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If you really think that UK got out of EU and Trump got into White House because of Russia or even "Russian hackers" then I highly recommend you to investigate what "Cambridge Analytica" is.
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Damn, Russian politic theme infiltrated even gaming forums. When will that end...
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I dare to introduce some gamification on this topic: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1502380/Combat_Mission_Black_Sea/
If it adds a bit of relevance to the thread.....)
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From what I understand, nothing really changed this week. Aside from legal statuses. Those DPR and LPR were not under Ukraine's control after 2014, and it's just that Russia formally recognised it now. For now. Unless it doesn't end there.
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Not really. Having recognized these "republics", putin also recognized their "constitution", in his own words. This means that they now claim territories much larger than those they currently control. It means the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, where Ukrainian citizens live, and who definitely do not want (at least in the vast majority) to join these "republics". Ukraine is not going to give up these territories just like that, which means that now Russian troops, together with collaborators, can go on the offensive at the "official level" with the full support of the russian federation.
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Wait, so they openly said they will take more territories? Or is it more like everybody assumes that they will? Because if it's the former, sh*t can hit the fan pretty quickly.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbRbtzvDnVQ
Khuilo, as always, does not say everything directly. But the leaders of these "republics" are determined to get these territories. They said it before, and say it now. And Putin now supports them officially, politically and militarily. I think that everything is clear to everyone.
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This is an awareness thread. You have to know.
I know. And now what?
You want me to fight your war or something?
Where is ukrainian army?
Where are ukrainian people? All fled to Poland?
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Poland had an army back in 1939
Poland in 39 was like rabid dog that tried to bite every country around to get more territory. Only allies were far way and not ready to fighting. You reap what you saw.
No one wants wars to fight, people want a decent life.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. The problem is... nothing will be gained by talking and awareness. Look at Tibet. Everybody knows about them. And what does that change? People will be enraged, talk angry about Putin... and then go back to watching Anime and playing vidya. People cares only on the surface.
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I don't hate Ukrainians. Nor anybody in particular.
I just don't believe in peace or justice.
Sanctions usually backfire and so far all of them were more painful to us not Putin xD
The thing is..In current state I don't see how anything can stop Russia from doing whatever they want in your country. If we were not in NATO or UE it would be the same for us tbh.
For some weird reason people became soft. How many years passed since last war in europe? 30? There are still some mined areas in Croatia to this day. And yet, some people are naive and believe that bloodshed can be avoided.
"The absent of war, does not mean peace".
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People are generally better educated now
That's true. On the other hand it has almost no impact on overall ability of critical thinking. So in general people are still cannon fodder... Just better educated cannon fodder.
Winners are only the puppeteers up in the safe zone.
Or a nation as a whole. For a soldier who would lost his life and his family or other people living there war it's a huge tragedy. But for example - look at Crimea. Russians were trying to take control over that region since XVII century. This is a strategically important place for military end economic reasons. If Putin will succeed in securing that area - that will give huge benefits for whole nation in couple of next decades. In that perspective - head of the country will not care about lives of some soldiers. Not even mentioning well being of another country.
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information is power. Always good to see under the propaganda umbrella. With these post, you can see what the media doesn't tell you.
And you asking the wrong question.
If Ukraine falls, what will NATO do? Poland has NATO bases, what will the Russians do with them? Are you live near to them or your family?
If Ukraine falls, what will be next? What territory will want Putin next? FYI before ww2 Hitler did the same too.
Survivors will flee to the neighboring country? Are those countries help them or close the borders? Are they prepared?
What impact will be these have on your life?
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Poland has NATO bases, what will the Russians do with them?
I don't live near base, but near ammo production factory xD So I guess that nukes will fly directly into my garden on 4am one day. But seriously, what will actually happen? Nothing.
Whatever Putin is doing - it's all for the sake of his country. Starting WW3 is probably something that he does not want (or so I hope so). What happens next is cold war as always. I mean - who said that it ever ended?
Good thing about this situation is that common people were finally reminded why there is actually a need for country to have an army and ability to protect it's own territory.
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Whatever Putin is doing - it's all for the sake of his country
Believe me, he doesn't do shit for the sake of our country. For the sake of his oligarch friends maybe, but not this time. I suppose he just wants to play in war. To feel more powerful and important, to threaten and exploit others.
Or his dementia is starting to progress faster.
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I would believe you... If you were Putin in reality xD Neither of us can judge the reasons for that kind of actions - we don't have enough data :) Also - things good for the country in the long term might not be good for average citizen in short term.
The moon doesn't care for barking dogs. You can put blame on dementia or some shady agenda... But it changes nothing.
If you don't like him - you can always change government. Russia is democracy after all. /s
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Russia isn't a democracy. Any opposition leaders that have some weight ends up in jail or forced out of the country. Those that aren't lucky enough ends up dead. Even if you aren't a media person you can't criticise the government or law enforcers freely — there is a fine for "disrespect of the authorities". And if you don't choose your words carefully — you can be labelled as an extremist and end up in jail. Shit, you can end up in jail even for solitary picket nowadays (if you get caught a few times)
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IKR. That "/s" at the ending stands for sarcasm.
Revolution is always the way :)
Although without majority of people wanting to change the government (and being ready for bloodshed) that's unrealistic.
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Russia was a highly militarized country historically. And for the last few decades, our government was increasing its police and military forces non-stop. An ageing, unarmed and predominantly female society isn't the best material for revolutioneers. Not to mention that our society is divided indeed.
So, no luck here either.
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Every county has their Nazis. Russia has more Nazis than Ukraine. Putin is supported by the mercenary Wagner group, who's leader has SS tattoos all over his body. Yes my friend, Putin pays neo nazis to fight for him in the Ukraine war, because his army is too weak to conquer Ukraine within 2 days as he wanted it. You should ask yourself, who's the Hitler in this current scenario?
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Are you some Putin troll who's getting payed for writing all this bullshit, or are you truly believing what you're saying? I'd suggest to use the Internet and get yourself educated, but wait, I forgot, your dicktator banned access to independent news media because he's afraid Russians could see what's really going on. At least not every Russian is as unwilling to accept the truth as you are.
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I have some facts for you, Putin will not conquer the Ukraine, the people in your country will suffer in the next few years to come because your country will be isolated from the world, at least for as long your dictator is in charge. Good luck
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your dicktator banned access to independent news media
That's not an excuse anyway, those of us who want to know what's really going on just use VPN or Tor.
And I don't believe that a troll factory would pay for trolling here. More likely, he's a sincere victim of propaganda.
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Of course it's not an excuse, but as seen with fin7, he's totally fine to believe in fairy tales. And yes, I'm afraid he's fallen for the propaganda, there's no help for him.
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Remember Hitler? Same story. In 39 lot of people sad "I don't want to fight YOUR war". As result this war became World War.
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Putin shits on sanctions. Pussy Biden and NATO either grow a pair of balls or they will see Putin invading Ukraine, Poland next and who knows what else
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What do you want them to do? Send Rambo to do a cover mission and infiltrate the Kremlin to kill Putin?
You watch too many dumb movies, dude. This is reality. Nobody wants a world war over Putin's erectile dysfunction issues.
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Easy peasy - block money, block access to the world. No Swift transactions => economy will die slowly. And that's what US can do and what is in their power
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Yeah but in the meantime the Russian people will suffer. As if having to live under the thumb of a dictator with erectile dysfunction wasn't bad enough.
Not like they wouldn't suffer with war but I'd much prefer someone could actually send someone to put a bullet in that douchebag's head and end it.
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meantime Ukrainians will die every day. I don't care about russians, why should I? They're now attacking Ukraine, so they should pay their price.
I prefer the same, but world isn't like movie as you've mentioned.
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War or sanctions, it's always the people who suffer while assholes like Putin and Trump try to compensate for their small dicks by swinging weapons around.
Russians are not attacking Ukraine. The Russian army is, under their douchebag in chief. I doubt most Russians want a war and they probably don't care one bit about Ukraine. And they already have to live in fear of the Big Douchebag.
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A Russian army which consists mostly individual low-ranking soldiers who just follows orders. You may say "Well, they just shouldn't follow the orders then", but it isn't that simple. Firstly, you get court martialled and can go to prison if you don't follow orders and secondly, if soldiers don't follow the orders of their superiors, then what we are talking here isn't an army. It is a band of mercenaries at best. So only ones to blame are Russian Government and some high ranking generals at most, you can't even really blame the %99 of Russian army logically.
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You're absolutely right, most people in the Russian army, hell, any army, sign up to defend their country from actual threats and/or to get some education/advancement.
They do not sign up to randomly invade neighboring countries under false pretenses drummed up by their dictator in chief just because he can't get it up or want to distract people's attention from a failing economy or whatever.
And ofc once you're signed up, you have to follow orders. There's no question in time of "war", especially under Putin and the like that they would be executed if they refused.
In short, I am not blaming Russian soldiers. It would be like blaming Little Boy for Hiroshima. You can't blame a weapon for the actions of the person wielding it. I was just making a distinction between the Russian people and the military machine
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glad you arent in politics cause thats the dumbest argument i have read today
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Go listen to what the Russian ambassador in Sweden think about these sanctions and you'll understand that's Putin's opinion as well.
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is it the same ambassador who said they weren't invading Ukraine? Whether he is or not, they're all about as trustworthy as their douchebag in chief.
Again what do you want them to say "shit, man, don't cut off our money or we're truly fucked"? You don't know much about diplomacy and lies, do you?
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You think the Russians are going to admit that sanctions hurt them?
Putin needs to appear strong and manly, he won't admit any weakness.
Sanctions hurt, and if they hurt enough either the people will rise up, or his billionaire friends that are helping him hide his wealth will stab him in the back and install a new strongman.
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I'm from Donbass. I'm russian-speaking. I born here. I lived here 30 years. And I never felt the need to protect myself and loved ones until putin brought his troops here in 2014 under the pretext of protecting people like me. I had to leave my house to avoid its "protection." Khuilo (putin) took eight years of my life away from me. I will never forgive him or all of Russia, with the tacit consent of which this barbaric arbitrariness is taking place.
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i hope you can find safety. putin needs to be stopped
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Thank you. I started everything almost from scratch in 2014 in another region of Ukraine. Just got things in order a few years ago. And here again.
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You forgot to tell us who's in control of the part of Donbass you live in. You just forgot. Surely, it's not an intentional omission. For everyone's information, it makes all the difference in the world if it's the government controlled part or the breakaway regions.
As for your never forgiving Russians, oh my, you won Bulletstorm: Full Clip Edition form a Russian.You didn't say proudly, 'F..ck off, I'm never accepting gifts from Russians!' What's free doesn't smell bad, huh?
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I already saw that some Russians in this thread has some problems with geography. I lived in Makiyivka (this info in my steam profile), it's close to Donetsk, and from 2014 it controls by russian occupants and collaborators. Yes, I won some gifts from Russians here. Even more! I have some Russians in my steam friend-list (and on my whitelist here on steamgifts if it matters for you). Aaaand even more!!! Some Russians won my giveaways too! I didn't say that I hate Russians or something. But it seems to me that I have certain reasons to blame many Russians for inaction, and moreover, for supporting those actions that deprived me of my home and my former life. And your anger towards me only strengthens my opinion.
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You cannot expect everyone to know where your town is located. If you say you live in the DPR (Donetsk People's Republic), that's enough for me. I'm sorry you lost your property and whatever else it was.
If what you say is true, you obviously have the right to hate Putin if you think he deserves it. My opinion of him is different though.
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Maybe you think after this night my opinion had to be changed?
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I sincerely respect your opinion. Everything civilians have lost and unfortunately will lose because of the conflict must be compensated by our government. I hope mo more civilians will die or get wounded. On both sides.
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I do hope so much that in the coming few days you get a summons in your mailbox.
Then you can go proof your love for your glorious leader on the battlefield.
Or are you to scared?
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You picked a wrong person to exercise your irony on. If I do get a summons, I'll go to war.
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Lets keep our fingers crossed then.
I wonder if a couch warrior can bring their couch to the war effort.
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Everything civilians have lost and unfortunately will lose because of the conflict must be compensated by our government.
One.
This is your word.
It's been about 9 months since the war started.
It is a known fact that the Russian government treats the dead as missing and does not guarantee the war dead.
Few government guarantees, such as payment, have been made.
Various lies and "special operations" with "deceptive names" were probably not true at the beginning 9 months ago, but as time passes, even Russian TV is now saying that they are at war and that they are not. Now you are aware of it, aren't you?
Please consider the facts that have been verified.
I respect your "free will".
If you want to fight for the Russian government, I suggest you go to the battlefield.
If you fight for the Russian people and your country, isn't it patriotic to fight against the Russian government?
From a distance, it looks like you will be cheated and exploited to death. It is as if you were a Japanese soldier at the end of WW2. At that time Japan was militaristic, there was no internet, and there was no information other than what the government claimed, which you can find out now if you research. Especially after a week has passed since the story first appeared, the truth or falsehood becomes conspicuous.
This exchange in your post was on the "eve of the start of the war".
If you evaluate the "past" from the perspective of those who know the reality of the present, some of your words and actions, like codasim's, ooze "cynicism toward the Russian government". It is natural to think that the Russian government is full of lies and betraying its people, and yet we are not convinced.
We don't have to like the Russian government to go along with this nonsense.
Many people outside of Russia may not feel that you are being fair, as they have suffered no small amount of discomfort from Russia in the form of the international economy.
(Some people may adapt their evaluation of the Russian government to their evaluation of the Russian people and you personally, which in my opinion is not a good thing.)
Fortunately, Ukrainian POWs are being treated properly, with observers from international organizations also present.
It is no use pretending to be a "patriot" when there is a reason why the draft is inevitable.
There are also family and community circumstances.
There may also be "pretexts.
Remember, if you are sent to the front lines, you can save your life by taking off your shirt and waving a white flag with the unloaded end of a gun attached to it.
Drones are everywhere, so if you have a bad feeling about this, remember that.
When you have time to think and grace to consult with a few people who may be willing to tell you the truth even if you don't like them.
I hope your life is not just a killer, but a choice where you are not fooled and feel you did the right thing.
Take care.
Hopefully, everyone would like to return to a time around pre-Corona, when life could be maintained to a point by relaxing in a community enjoying pre-war games and lamenting a bit of recession and a little bit of incompetence in their own government.
That's all.
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Hopefully, you copypasted that from somewhere else.
Otherwise, you wasted a good deal of your time.
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His statement was "before the war started".
The truth was not yet known at that time.
There must be people in Russia who are in positions and places where claiming the "truth" would be life-threatening.
Considering that some people can only say "what they can say now", I think it is better to terminate the discussion at this point.
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haha ja i bet YOU know it better, beeing indoctrinated by all the lies your gouvernment tells you!
shame on you
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People don't like your cowardly leader who's setting up kill lists of dissidents for Ukraine while hiding in his bunker. The people of Russia are also victims in this.
The fact that you feel the need to defend a man who'd rather you be dead than even think differently than him is horrifying to see. I hope once Russia has been decimated financially and politically, then you'll have the chance to see why a good portion of your countrymen are currently getting themselves arrested just to be heard.
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What I think is that, like you, I hope that things will be settled quickly without a lot of casualties.
However, I am strongly concerned because it is unclear whether human history will repeat itself or not.
I think SteamGifts is a place where people who want to play games can do so without seeking "real war". (｡ŏθŏ)Umm...
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