On some level gaming has always been political, so I don't think it's at all peculiar to see them mixed these days either. This dev has the right to express his opinion and people have equal right to react to it. I think it's actually better when people with absolutely vile opinions out themselves, helps others know what kind of person they are. And if you choose to avoid supporting their business because of their views, then you are free to do so. That being said, I do think it's silly that people are uninstalling Killing Foor 2, etc, thinking it'll do anything. The products have already been bought, money already spent. The way forward is to not continue giving more money to him.
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I do think it's silly that people are uninstalling Killing Foor 2, etc, thinking it'll do anything.
Hmm, if it were a single-player game, I'd agree.
But it's a multi-player game, and the number of players is quite pertinent to potential new buyers. KF2 items are also sold on the Steam Community Market, and the number of players will directly impact Tripwire's profits from those sales.
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I guess they're making a point and since people are talking about it, they are but yeah I agree that it's not going to change anything for him going forward. It might change things for his employees when people boycott the company though so well done.
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can't believe babies aren't allowed to abort anymore, that's so sad
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Yeah I was just thinking that. Another tweet bites the grammatical dust.
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You're looking for opinions? From people? On the internet?
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It's all been rather civil so far despite a deeply divisive topic :D
Steam however, not so much.
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I don't get it, he posted it in his personal account, and while he is the president he isn't the whole company. Seems like a bit of an over reaction.
This isn't one of those subjects with a clear cut answer, is very gray and there's usually multiple points of view, when did it became unacceptable to have an opinion about abortion?
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The overwhelming majority of the world has a pretty clear cut view on whether a rape victim should be forced through 9 months of physical and psychological ravaging for the sake of nurturing her rapist's child.
It's insane that a tiny minority imagine they can dictate that anyone else must submit to their backwards moral code, and frankly sickening that in this case they have succeeded in doing so. But yes, they have every right to speak out about what they believe, and should of course be utterly unsurprised when everyone else is horrified, and equally unsurprised at the inevitable consequences.
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Honestly I have no clue of what this particular law is about cos I don't follow news from the US, if it actually is about rape victims then sure that's pretty rough of a position.
But still, he isn't the whole company, and a game company probably doesn't have much sway if any about this type of stuff. Holding an opinion isn't quite the same as actually lobbying for something, if we start hanging every person that says something stupid we'll end up in a pretty questionable situation. I don't believe in public shaming or vengeance.
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I wonder if the guy actually read up on the law before posting that?
I don't understand why anyone would support a law that forces a women to carry her rapists child to term...that's just cruel.
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My guess is yes, almost certainly. He singles out the Texas law directly which has been headline news for a while now - headline news because it deliberately attempts to undermine the landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court Roe vs Wade (1973) that protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion.
The way it is undermined, as you've pointed out, is because it does not exclude rape or incest - and also because it is limited to 6 weeks from conception - a time frame so short that many women may not even realise they are even pregnant yet. The UK for example, allows abortion up to 24 weeks from conception - more than enough time to make an informed decision and at least know you're pregnant!
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Get Dat Fetus Kill Dat Fetus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk_aBZQrGlA
all this talk makes me think of this episode
from the womb to the tomb, braap brrap peww pew
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The Supreme Court didn't even 'affirm' the law - they simply didn't choose to suspend it, which from what I understand they can't do until they actually have a case which can be escalated to the Supreme Court.
I don't really care if the guy gets backlash - its the employees who I have sympathy for, as they have to deal with the fallout and the potential finanicial blowback if it happens. Just off the back of your CEO's hot take.
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its the employees who I have sympathy for, as they have to deal with the fallout and the potential finanicial blowback if it happens.
Exactly. He decided to get political on the biggest third rail of all third rails of politics, for some reason since... he is not a baby and he can't get an abortion... and now people are going to end up losing their jobs. Well done, John.
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They could have halted the law until it’s been litigated.
That’s what they should have done for such a radical law
(US lawyer here, so I know what I’m talking about)
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Look, I don't normally comment on these things, but this really annoys me! Rant incoming sorry.
It is easy for someone like him to say, when he obviously never has to fear dealing with the fallout of getting pregnant and having a baby.
My sister had her baby this weekend, and while she absolutely wanted a child, shes reconsidering a second. She was in labor for 23 hours, nearly died, and she desperately wants a child. She will be having issues sitting down/going to the bathroom for months due to the damage.
Putting someone through this horror scene when they don't even want a child is horrific. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for these women. It's not like these 'pro-lifers' are going out and adopting children from these women who were made to have the child. If they did, I could at least respect them for actually upholding their own ideals. But no, they don't give a fuck if the child is born and gets a terrible life, once it's born, the babies life doesn't matter to them.
On the other hand, I don't agree with abortion being used as a form of constant birth control. Abortion should be that time where you realise hey, you really fucked up (or as a way to deal with something forced on you - not only rape, some partners do sabotage BC as a way to trap partners), maybe you should be taking a look at your current BC and maybe get some professional help if your BC (or lack of it) failed you.
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some partners do sabotage BC as a way to trap partners
Technically I'd still consider that to be rape, assuming the two agreed to have sex on the condition of using BC. If one party then sabotages that BC without the other party's knowledge, is the consent then even valid anymore?
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On the other hand, I don't agree with abortion being used as a form of constant birth control.
That's always been more of an extreme perspective, much like banning guns outright (though in this case, I'd assume it's far less supported than that latter stance). Rather, the main political platforms have always been "except rape" and "except the mentally ill"/"except assault rifles", respectively. It's the fact that the nation keeps pushing for uncontrolled extremes that support detrimental impacts on a personal and national level that make these matters so bizarre, infuriating, and horrifying.
Sometimes I feel that the greatest issue with that political base isn't the promotion of bigotries, violence, counter-education, or irrational mentalites- but rather, the simple fact that they never can manage to seem to grasp the idea of nuance or moderation, pushing every supported ideology to its extremes. Every political point has to be a hill to die on, and the details don't really matter. And the contradictions and hypocrisies that come out of that be damned..
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And being the proud owner of a uterus, he should, indeed care. Right?
But more to your point, I find it rather silly to tweet about something like that when it literally has zero impact on you just so you can wave a flag to the other people who think like you. He is a public persona and he should think about his company first.
He's a private citizen as well and he can vote for whomever he likes. Hell, he can even donate money to the KKK if he chooses to.
Saying so loud and proud in a public forum without expecting consequences though is rather 1991.
Makes me wonder where that guy's been the past 15 years or so...
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Maybe this will help John to really listen to the mod community.
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People actually think killing babies improves society
What a time to be alive (except for those babies of course)
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yes those poor babies, what we should do is force the mother to have "the baby", and then boot straps. who cares if the mother doesn't have the skills, money, desire to have a child, or healthy environment to raise them. what we need is more unwanted children to grow up so we can keep filling the prisons for profit. SuperLog, you have such a compelling argument. who cares if bible actually advocates for abortion.
we should also pass laws to monitor males at all times to make sure they do not spill their seed, cause the bible is against it.
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Oh my god, more people to prisons for profit, how did I not think of that, what a great idea!
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It's his freedom to speak but with great power comes great responsibility and unfortunately you can't just say stuff willy nilly if you're a representative of something or anything cus it's also everyone else's freedom to judge him.
Maybe it'll drive up rates of suicide instead if they can't abort, did no one bother to think about that? Most mothers probably wouldn't choose abortion if they were in a healthy environment with enough support, but no instead we're punishing them? instead of giving them the support they need? What is this, humanity? They can't get women to agree to carry their baby so they've resorted to forcing them to?
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Maybe it'll drive up rates of suicide instead if they can't abort
On a semi-related note, it may also drive up the number of abandoned babies/infant deaths.
Short story - When I was much younger, I worked (very briefly) as a funeral director. I set up and managed the funerals, dealt with whatever the family wanted, lowered the coffins into the ground, etc. The next bit is pretty f'ed up, so read at your own risk.
My first day on the job, I was out training with the boss, and my very first funeral was for a two month old baby (Crystal), who had been placed in a plastic garbage sack and tossed out a car window in the middle of January - because the mother and father didn't want her. You don't really grasp the concept of unwanted births until you're faced with a tiny coffin you're placing in the ground and covering with dirt. That shit stays with you forever. [Edit: I decided to double check to be sure I was getting the details right, and it's even worse than I remembered - the baby was two days old, placed in a paper sack along with the placenta and bloodied clothes, then placed in a plastic garbage sack, then dumped by the road to freeze/suffocate. The police also found the remains of two other baby girls in the woman's car, also placed in plastic sacks, and left there to decompose. Police said the woman's car reeked of human remains. All three were by different fathers, and all three were sisters]
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That's funny. The same line can be used for any not raped, but pregnant woman who would like to abort her child.
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Well, yes. After all, as you said, there are consequences to our actions. Be it expecting no backlash from a tweet, or expecting a life bearing and raising children to be a breeze.
Alternatively, although the name suggests that orphanages are for orphans, there are institutions out there which take in children that parents are unable to provide for. I'd say that option still beats having a child die for woman's mistake.
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Why is it the woman's mistake? It takes two to get pregnant. Also, no contraception methods are 100% safe. So I guess you are advocating for celibacy unless the woman is ready to pay the price for the 'mistake'.
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If I wanted to go to a concert and hated crowds, but went anyway, who do I blame for my bad time? Crowds, or myself, (especially if I am aware of great chance of crowds gathering at concerts)?
Woman's mistake, in this context is only because in comments above borsdy set up a condition for the child being unwanted (which I understood at the time as "unwanted by the hypothetical woman"). I followed up on that. If a woman is the one who doesn't want a child, but ends up being pregnant, I would say it's a mistake, whether abortion is a possibility or not.
But the question sets up an interesting conundrum, since you just split responsibility for pregnancy between 2 people (which I agree with btw) - doesn't that mean that therefore actions regarding that child, such as abortion should require both parents' decision, basically contradicting famous "my body, my choice" argument?
And I'm not really advocating here for anything. More of a follow up on a "Ohno, it's the consequences of my own actions". But as far as I know, you are right, no contraception methods are 100% safe, so if a woman really doesn't want to get pregnant, the most certain way to do it would indeed be a celibacy. It's hardly something to advocate on - more of a certain solution to specific situation.
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If a woman is the one who doesn't want a child, but ends up being pregnant, I would say it's a mistake, whether abortion is a possibility or not.
It can be a mistake. But if reasonable precautions were taken and it happens despite that then calling it a mistake would be quite harsh. Is having a sex life if you don't want children a mistake because of the low but not completely unavoidable risk?
doesn't that mean that therefore actions regarding that child, such as abortion should require both parents' decision, basically contradicting famous "my body, my choice" argument?
Both parties are responsible for a woman getting pregnant obviously. On the other hand only one of them can / has to bring the pregnancy to term. Where's the contradiction? This would be a really interesting question if it was possible to keep the fetus alive outside the womb.
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Is having a sex life if you don't want children a mistake because of the low but not completely unavoidable risk?
I guess it is, if you end up pregnant. If not, then lucky you, you got both the things you wanted and none of stuff you didn't want.
This would be a really interesting question if it was possible to keep the fetus alive outside the womb.
Then I suppose I, and the person who came up with the "my body, my choice" argument are boring you with this avenue of discussion. Sorry about that.
But curiously, going by your logic, if a fetus was to be removed from the womb, kept alive and developed into a normal baby in approximate pregnancy time safely, then would both parents be not responsible for it in that time? After all, neither would have to carry it around in their own body. Who would decide at that time? And if so, would abortion become illegal in such scenario, as neither parent would have rights to make such a decision?
Or would they have equal say during that time? Would that not mean, that father's responsibility for the baby exists during that time as well? Which would circle back to the "contradiction", that the very fact of being a father places a man in position to decide baby's future, in some degree at least.
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Well, that is a point of contention, isn't it?
I could throw a snarky comment about not having seen born embryos, but either way, at some point the embryo becomes an unborn baby, and we can't exactly pinpoint where, or when such point exists. I just know that killing a baby is definitely wrong, and abortion done late enough would be just that.
If done early enough? I honestly don't know.
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You hit the nail on the head.
Nobody knows when a zygote/fetus/embryo becomes an unborn baby. Religions differ, philosophers differ, doctors differ, there is no right answer.
While it doesn’t match my beliefs, I think “viability” is a fair compromise.
(According to my beliefs, life begins at birth)
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Neural activity is just as valid a measure as any other.
But yes, abortion restrictions in much of this country are awful. Not everywhere, in some places it’s easy.
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Eh, maybe you should read about foster care a bit... some people will be good foster parents, sure, but there's also abuse of all sorts and studies tend to show that foster kids are more likely to experience mental and physical problems.
A woman's mistake, really? Damn. A bunch of cells is not a child, by the way.
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If I may, for the last line I'll refer you to comment above, and even more above.
And yes, unfortunately, foster care or biological parents, it's a hit or miss. I can truthfully speak only for myself here, but I know that given the choice between possibly harsh upbringing and not being given a chance at life, I'd pick a harsh upbringing without hesitation. Some people might think differently, but you can't know that unless you ask.
Unfortunately, it's a bit hard to ask an unborn for opinion. In such context, I am pro-choice. Pro personal choice, that is.
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I was a foster parent for a while, and took several courses on the matter.
Children with mental and physical problems are more likely to end up on the foster system, and being in the foster system is more likely to cause mental and physical problems.
Double-whammy
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Since he posted it from his personal account, I see no reason that other companies or people had to cut ties with Tripwire and reviewbomb their games.
That being said, when will people realize that y'all need to shut the fuck up on social media, especially if you're famous? Nothing good ever comes out of it, especially when you're being political.
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While your politics are your own, the moment you make them a matter of public discourse you entangle all of those working for and with you. (...) We cannot in good conscience continue to work with Tripwire.
Nice. A man makes a statement on his personal accout. Gets told that he entangles his company by a person using Shipwright Studios company account, and word "we"...
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"I felt it was important to go on the record as a pro-life game developer."
Yeah, looks pretty personal to me...
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There will come a time when most of the Middle-East will be more progressive than the conservative states of the US.
With the recent events in Afghanistan, the remembrance of 9-11 this week, and the continuation of the trial against the footsoldiers that did the dirty work for those attacks, it's scary to see how much the Taliban/Al-Qaida/ISIS have in common with conservatives.
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Large parts of America are basically white ISIS.
There’s too much open country, where people don’t ever meet anyone who is not just like them. Living in isolation, it’s easy to be an extremist - it doesn’t affect anyone you care about
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I kinda never understood posting these things with accounts that have any mention to your employer... What ever the message is outside marketing company stuff...
On private account, do what ever you want and support what ever political ideology you want.
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That's the thing: People are free to express their opinion, but if it were found that an employee of a company, outside of work hours, on their personal social account anywhere, was a dissident to anything the company disagrees with politically, they can lose their job.
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It's not about games or audience. It's about entire society been divided. Do you care what CEO of your car's brand company thought about controversial political measures? I bet you didnt. But soon you will. It's just the beginning
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Political bullshit should be kept out of all forms of entertainment, because political bullshit is anything but entertaining.
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No, why would I want to subject myself to a community that is arguably worse than the one from call of doodie?
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Nah Is just that I saw a similar comment on Fortnite's Black Lives Matter Event Backfires Video' Because I was researching for Martin Luther King Event Video over Epic Games Face Backlash Over Fortnite's Messy Martin Luther King Event Video from YongYea lol
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Spec Ops: The Line , The Witcher, Bioshock, Fallout. . .They all say 'Hi'.
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Also, Star Wars, pretty much whole of the Marvel n DC universes.
just to cover my bases, you know, since you said entertainment as a whole.
::cue the astronauts meme::
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I think Social Media in general is Full of comedians, clowns, bullies, nerds and crazy People.
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I actually quite like this development with a career crush. Apparently you can't just publicly declare that a woman's body doesn't belong to her and move on without any repercussions anymore.
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In the eyes of the company, the real problem probably wasn't so much his opinion itself, but that he was making it look like an opinion that many of their customers were against was being perceived as the companies opinion as a whole (someone who advertises themselves as a CEO of a company saying something == the opinion of the company).
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WAAAAT? You refuse to be viewed as some bare-footed, sammich-making, semen-receptive breeding pod? How dare you woman? How dare you indeed!
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John Gibson, president of Tripwire Interactive tweeted the following yesterday:
"Proud of #USSupremeCourt affirming the Texas law banning abortion for babies with a heartbeat. As an entertainer I don’t get political often. Yet with so many vocal peers on the other side of this issue, I felt it was important to go on the record as a pro-life game developer."
The Tweet
Personally, I think he should have kept his opinions to himself, but it's already caused a drop in game ratings (Killing Floor 2 for example) as well as partners cancelling current contracts:
Partner studio ends contracts with Tripwire over company president's support for abortion ban
I'm assuming most of us here prefer politics to be kept out of gaming, but when the president of a gaming company makes a bold stand, it's bound to get political? Opinions welcome - and I'm sure we'll be divided on this too, but can we try not to insult each other when expressing them here?
UPDATE:
Tripwire Appoints new Interim CEO, Alan Wilson, as Company Moves Forward
September 6, 2021
The comments given by John Gibson are of his own opinion, and do not reflect those of Tripwire Interactive as a company. His comments disregarded the values of our whole team, our partners and much of our broader community. Our leadership team at Tripwire are deeply sorry and are unified in our commitment to take swift action and to foster a more positive environment.
Effective immediately, John Gibson has stepped down as CEO of Tripwire Interactive. Co-founding member and current Vice President, Alan Wilson, will take over as interim CEO. Alan has been with the company since its formation in 2005 and is an active lead in both the studio’s business and developmental affairs. Alan will work with the rest of the Tripwire leadership team to take steps with employees and partners to address their concerns including executing a company-wide town hall meeting and promoting open dialogue with Tripwire leadership and all employees. His understanding of both the company’s culture and the creative vision of our games will carry the team through this transition, with full support from the other Tripwire leaders.
Source
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