Everyday I look out into the world and wonder how has hate replaced what used to be kindness. Then I look back to history and realize that we have cycled through periods of hate and love. Does love always triumph hate? I'm not so sure, but what I do know is that our history is littered with the struggle between the two sides, from WWII with Hitler to the peace era filled with hippies.
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It's a false equivalence. There isn't more or less hate in the world.
We simply have a larger population and superior, widespread means of communication. That's it. The rest is perception.
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Students of history are able to see patterns of behavior, and "cycles" are quite noticeable. Despite the constant change of minute, environmental details, human beings remain human. We are reluctant to learn from our own mistakes, much less the mistakes of others, and so we keep repeating the same behavior, over and over, again, until something forces us to stop. It doesn't take long for what we've learned "the hard way" to be forgotten by those who come after us. After three generations, the cycle begins anew..
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Not just history, actual prospective science which is present in like...all governments, institutions and corporations at the highest levels of direction.
Saying that there are no more hate because it always the same is a typical kind of social science-denial from neo-skeptics.
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Saying that there are no more hate because it always the same is a typical kind of social science-denial from neo-skeptics.
???
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, here, nor do I know how this relates to what I wrote.
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I was replying to what doctorofjournalism answer to you.
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First, I'm very grateful for your work though I've only sent a couple of tickets.
IMO, a few things could make your work easier:
- Make the rules clearer about what is and isn't acceptable in the posts.
- Add a "report" button on the posts. If the same post gets reported twice, you get notified. Only one report, you don't.
- Add the ability to "mute" certain members so that you can only see their replies to your posts, not the rest.
- Use the banhammer as much as possible. Being part of this community is a privilege, not a right. Hate for mods or other members has no place here.
- Add a limit to the number of simultaneous tickets per member.
I wish SG the best for the future.
edit: Didn't see the post was from last year. My post is still relevant though.
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think about Support peeps, while creating gibs bump
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nothing but respect for my moderators.
EDIT: wait, this is a necro-thread, dang it, well, i guess the points still stands.
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don't worry, "blame" is mine...
was lil' missing Pete, so thought about this thread... and saw jims started it saying exactly the same.
so, was kinda relieved, cause, maybe, in a few months, Uncle will come back :D
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I just saw he deleted his account, that's sad.
SG lost one of the nicest and kindest person I have ever met :(
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lost one of the nicest and kindest person
When he cancelled his giveaways, he dropped me his Tyranny and Torment keys from those giveaways. Really can agree on being nice :) I guess he started the deleting procedure around that time
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I didn't know him personally but I really enjoyed talking to him here on SG, he always had nice things about everyone.
It's really too bad that people can't make the distinction between the mod and the person behind it and respect their privacy off-site. Even then he was still being understanding about it, I guess it just got too much. I just hope he left knowing how much he was appreciated!
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IDK who Jim and Uncle are, but I do miss Pete. He is one of the nicest and kindest folks I have ever known during my years of interneting. It is a pity that he deleted his account, but ultimately, it is up to him. I wish he hadn't perma-left. Maybe this way he can come back as someone new in x months, and not be recognized (and thus have less pressure)?
Either way, I wish I had known this site years ago, so that i wouldn't have missed out on knowing those who sound like great people; I am glad that I have met some of those who are still here (or were when i joined).
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i have respect to people who do voluntary work here on sg. i never could do that. as a simple user i get sometimes fed up with some folks. cant imagine what you are dealing with.
thank you
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in spite of everything,
they are still moderating,
sharing music and food pics,
bumping threads and giving away,
their fucking precious free time, also.
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This may have been written some time ago, but it's familiar to me. I used to be supermod, then community manager of a large community website. Now I run a small one with a close-knit community. Honestly, there have been times where I did walk away back in the day, not permanently, but I took deliberate extended breaks from the site when I felt that things were getting too much. The burn-out is real and other people's bullshit is not worth ever risking your mental well-being.
There are people who have genuine complaints and should be listened to, but then there is THAT guy/girl who is there to complain about everything and anything. You will never please them because they believe they could do it better than you. Those are the ones who don't actually give a toss, they're just doing it for personal attention and to feel important. I learned long ago to identify them and to ignore them as much as possible. "I'm leaving because the staff here never do anything!" Okay yeah fine they can leave, and close the door on their way out.
One time, we made one guy a temporary mod who was always complaining about us. He wasn't a bad sort of guy, just didn't get it. You know what he said? "Oh my God, I never knew how tough you guys had it. I swear, I will never complain about mods again." True story. lol.
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Now this is a necro I can get behind. Being volutary site staff ain't easy, and it's only fair to remind people that there are real humans behind those screen names. Keep up the good work guys and gals!
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This goes for mods, support, admins, and those with similar roles or titles here and elsewhere--you do a often thankless and unpaid job, sacrificing your time, energy, effort, in some cases tears, and even money (hard cash or potential earnings) to make those forums, servers, etc. a better place. Thank you!
And if you feel you must walk away from the job because of stress or whatever, please--if at all possible--don't leave the community. Maybe you have to take a break for your health, maybe you wish to do something else with your free time, but please don't leave entirely unless you absolutely must. There are those folks on that site where you moderated, volunteered, admin'd for, (etc) who miss, respect, admire, and who in some cases consider you among their dearest friends, even if you don't know it. If you have to stop being a mod, etc, and must take time off of that site you were a mod for, please still drop in and say "hi!" once in a while. Your mere presence in the member list gladdens hearts.
Thank you, whoever you are, and keep up the good work & effort!
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Hmm, I've been on this site for a few years but never seen this post. Quite impressive.
As time goes on, we can't be the same as we were, like having jobs and new family members. You can't stop moving and seeing new things which include leaving the old things behind. What we can do is making a cozy place for us so that those who left can remember the site someday and those who are to leave can stay longer.
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I used to participate a lot in here. But now it feels less... Human. The discussions front-page is full of bundles/deals or giveaways in which the comments range from "thanks" to "thank you".
I use to love idling here, but now... Meh, it ain't the same. Specially without the iconic characters we used to have. I don't even care much about GAs, the fact that I was socializing with folks that would giveaway for the sake of giveaway was very pleasant to me. This may also be another reason to why so many staff left.
At least sg discord still keeps me entertained, so there's that.
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I'm not one to talk, but I really do think that it's up to the community to come up with better discussions. How do you do that? Making threads that don't have giveaways but instead encourage discussion, like this thread right here.
I actually prefer forums to Discord, but I find that every forum that has a discord, the character members sorta congregate there and forget about posting on the forums. It's one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. =(
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I suppose that's why I try not to be a pest as much as possible. I appreciate what the mods here do, even if sometimes I don't agree with it. I'm sad that most communities now-a-days are rather toxic no matter where you go. I'm not sure how to fix this, or if it even can be fixed.
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I'm not sure how to fix this, or if it even can be fixed.
Culture:
- Remember the humans at the other end of the message or site
- Would you honestly talk/act the same way with the other person face to face in public?
- You are entitled to nothing that is essentially free, because that free thing didn't have to exist in the first place.
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Would you honestly talk/act the same way with the other person face to face in public?
I wish the internet as a whole would learn this. :)
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I try to as honest as I can and do not hide myself on the internet. Been using internet for more than a decade and visited various sites. Although I had not seen all the foul of the internet, I've seen and experience some. All in all, I try not to be a keyboard warrior and treat anyone with the dignity and polite I would give in real life. As such, I prefer to be more responsible in my words and take up the responsibility of the consequences my words might result in.
There's a need for internet users to take up more responsibility with their words though i would not have to register to a government body to use the internet. Everyone needs to take notice and act responsibility before the governments come up with more restrictions due to some irresponsible users that marks a small population of the general users. Educate, Practice and Influence before its too late to those close to you. Regards and Cheers~ ^_^
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I'm sorry (for being a cynical) ... basically you're right ... but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
you are asuming/requesting things that others throw away when they enter the (seemingly anonymous) internet.
Not cynical, I hope you had a little chuckle seeing/reading the linked articles.
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Clearly we need dogs to identify themselves so we know who is human or a dog ;)
Also in the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, when "normal person" is a person of social and/or economic status, then a lot of the time Anonymity can be replaced with Social Media.
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"We" dont hate all mods, just mods like you that are not able to work proper...
You are an example of an dangerous behaviour inside a community... you were not able to avoid an escalation because of your childish reactions + your first line of action was a total nonsense, something no m,od should write... i dont get how you still work as mod after all the bs you produced in your role...
If your actions represent SGs spirit i maybe thinking about deleting my account here... i dont want be part of a community that supports bad mods like you... dont get me wrong, you maybe a nice person but your work is bad...
!ai revolution
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Almost like moderators are human...
Also, none of what you linked actually represents a bad mod action. If anything, the OP in that thread is more than a bit presumptuous.
I've been on the internet a long time, I've seem plenty of bad mods, but he's not one of them.
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I've been on the internet a long time,
Now that's what I'd call a perfect argument. So full of logic.
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Some logical conclusion based on checkable premises.
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Okay.
In the past ten years, I've spent lots of time browsing numerous forums, the Feed the Beast forums probably the one I've spent the most time on. I've also spent lots of time on Reddit, which has plenty of bad apples in various mod teams.
So based on that experience, and my own moderation experience, I don't find the actions taken by the mods in that thread unreasonable or bad.
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It looks I have twice more experience in iternet than you. And based on my experience I can say you are wrong. How about that? Is it a valid argument for you?
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You're entitled to your own opinion, just as I am to mine. I don't simply believe you because you say you've got twice the experience I do. You also haven't proven that the way I've proven my own, because you can Google my user name to find that I have indeed been on the forums I mentioned a while as well as Reddit.
So unless you do that, I don't consider your argument valid.
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Good. Now, when you understand that my argument is not valid (and it's intentional, btw), you have to understand that your argument is just the same, and thus, also, not valid.
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So is your entire point just that there is no logical argument here, just opinions?
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i worked alot as mod on several sites, projects... i stay with my opinion basing on experience...
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And I have my own opinions and experiences. I'm just going to agree to disagree with you then.
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your experience is long time in internet compared to my years at MS, Bethesda, Newssites etc... why do you think i dont trust yours... :)
My last position was at Steam Companion after that i quited moderating...
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Well I can actually form a grammatically correct statement, so I've got that going for me at least...
Are you saying you've worked for Microsoft and Bethesda? Because I'm not sure how that applies to making your opinion more valid than mine on internet forum moderation.
Ninja edit: What is there to moderate there except giveaways?
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Well I can actually form a grammatically correct statement
Troll rule #1: if you don't have valid arguments - find faults in opponen's grammar.
Also, you're inconsistent.You said we should believe you because of your great experience, but when your opponent says the same - you are not agree! Come on, he was in the imternet for a long time, isn't it a valid argument?
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Normally I don't give two shits about grammar, but I actually had trouble understanding what he meant which is why I mentioned it in a sort of sarcastic way.
I never said my opinion was more valid than his. I said mine is different. But the reverse is true as well, so neither of us should be believed.
Also asking for clarification doesn't mean I agree or disagree with his argument, it means I need more information to make my judgment. That's kind of the core of an argument.
He got suspended anyway. I wonder why.
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I'm sure BLAEO will be asked to remove the link to their website under this newly applied 'rule'
Can't have them directing traffic to their site.
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That's the main problem of sg - not mods and not community, but absence of strict, verbose and non-conflicting rules.
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Yep. - we're now seeing a rule against advertising being used to restrict links to places which exist solely for the community and have no commercial incentive despite being used for a long period of time, and now there has to be a debate on the true meaning of a guideline like it's some ancient religious text.
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So... a mod got in a dispute.. shit happens. Might be handled better, but hey, we're all human here.
I think Archie has a valid point there, but let them figure it out themselves. It will be solved.
Do you have more examples of this mod doing a bad job? If not, stop pointing your finger. People might believe you.
So lame to link to a thread that got closed FOR A REASON. Now thats something I would call dangerous behaviour.
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You do realise thats something from over a year ago? A pretty good mod score if you ask me, make a mistake once a year on hundreds of actions taken.
In my book a mod is definately allowed to make a mistake every now and then. We all make mistakes. Like keeping screenshots from over a year ago and "Uploaded 21 hr ago". Why? Who? What purpose? Looks like a little group of shitheads out on a crusade to get a mod banned to me. Save all the evidence! Pathetic.
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Oh I am naught but the first step, I just hope there will be others that come forward and speak up. If not, that's a defeat then.
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that's only what YOU can see... you can search yourself for evidence and the linked threads are not the only problems he caused... not everything is written down here on SG and in threads... theres alot more in the intern system... ;)
call it a crusade or step byside and just watch but dont post useless stuff like "i think its all a witchhunt" or whatever...
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While I understand you have concerns and wish them to be discussed publicly, there is still a rule against calling out, whether against a moderator or general user. Please remove the links above.
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how is this calling out when you kink to threads that exist since a long time on SG...?
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From the guidelines:
Use the appropriate avenues for support. If you have an issue with another user, submit a ticket with a user report, rather than calling them out within the community or on the forum.
Links to images, comments, giveaways, etc. pointing to another user's behavior, particularly when you are pointing out negative behavior, are all forms of calling out, and should be addressed through a ticket.
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it really depends on days, but i still love you, bro
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Sure you two love each other... posting trolling posts and nothing more... XD
and please domt tell me your both posts are not triolling....
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Mine wasn't trolling. I was dead ass serious (unlike your bullshit "threat").
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yea defend your trolling, haha^^
EDIT: btw i will leave, when Cg supports this... i dont care if you lil kid believe me or not... XD
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Again, I wasn't trolling.
I sincerely want you to delete your account.
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Oh come on. Moderators are human beings, just like you. We, as members, hold them to a higher standard because they are in a position of power. We expect a certain level of behaviour from them that is above what petty wars the rest of us get up to at times. BUT... they aren't infallible. They're just members like the rest of us. You can catch one of them on a bad day, deliberately piss them off and get the kind of reaction that a regular member would return.
Nothing about Khalaq's posts suggests that he is a bad mod. Geez. Perhaps, public altercations with users no matter how civilised can be perceived a certain way because like I said above, you are expecting a superhuman response, rather than a human one. It could have been handled better, sure, but that's the human factor.
If I was dealing with that user on my own forum, (IF I thought they went against rules) I'd be removing the links myself and sending them a private message as to why the links were removed. If they disagreed, they could open a private dispute with other admins. BUT... mods here don't have the tools to do that. They should, but they don't.
As for rules, they are a set of guidelines and you can't expect the exact same outcome each time someone breaks the rules. Even in a court of law, different sentences are handed down for very similar crimes depending on the judge. Again, a judge is a human being and they make the best judgement they can at the time, but had someone else been making the ruling, they might have made a slightly different one. This is an internet forum and people are expecting something that goes beyond even that?
I was once banned from a site after asking the staff there nicely to please remove my artwork that one of their members had stolen and posted up as their own. I wasn't rude in any way since it wasn't the fault of the staff that the user was plagiarising content. Now THAT was bad moderation. They should have deleted that user's posts after I provided the evidence from my Behance account. I ended up sending a stiffly worded email to the site's ownership, quoting copyright, which got my artwork removed and without asking, they reinstated my account, which I never used after that. LOL!
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thanks for such a wall... in short , i expect what i would expect from me in that position....
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Yeah, because you'd be perfect. There isn't the possibility that you'd make a less than perfect judgment call? You see, that I can't believe. Someone is always going to find fault with you for something. You're not perfect because no one is.
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While I understand you have concerns and wish them to be discussed publicly, there is still a rule against calling out, whether against a moderator or general user. Please remove the link above.
As Khalaq has also stated in that thread, issues like this should be taken up with support staff through a ticket. I assure you when a user has an issue with a particular mod or support user, the others of our group will see that it is addressed as fairly as we can manage.
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its not calling out since its all on SG since years and i just linked it to proof my statement...
when i talk good about mods and link something you dont name it calling out becuse its nice... thats kinda censoreship...
i wont delete them i happily take the slap for it... i stand behind what i posted...
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I truly hope you understand there is a difference between positive and negative "calling out". Let's run with a hypothetical, shall we?
If user A claims that user B (non-mod, just a regular user) has wronged them and posts it publicly, then the community will see that and may seek retribution. If user A was simply trying to stir up trouble for B, they've succeeded, and that's not an experience anyone should have to deal with. Whether user A was justified in their posting or not, this leads to a more toxic environment. If instead A has submitted a ticket, it would have been reviewed and addressed as needed, without the additional toxicity.
On the other hand, if A points out B's positive role in the community or just something B did nice for A, there's bound to be zero toxicity (granted, you can't please everyone all the time, and even positive gestures may be taken in a negative light for whatever reason), so there's no need to restrict that kind of behavior.
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I mean thats literally the rule why india has problems .
If we find someone spamming Scam links in the sg community people did post it to warn other people that this people may have been hijacked that would be calling out aswell ?
and if we apply all rules (Group recruitment should have some extra rules because every thread encourage people to join their group ) .
Or the Freebie Threads encourage people to register on (Humble Bundle/Indiegala/Steam/Uplay/Epic Games etc) through reward .
I mean we all joke around and post sometimes "Memes" in form and shape of video/gifs or pics.
If i dont mention its my channel i can post my own meme here in form of a video .
But if i say its my Video/Channel its like im trying to promote something?
And every quoted Twitter news related to gaming
If i would say hey here my twitter article about "gaming" NOPE PROMOTION!
But if i just make a thread ,what do you think about this article and dont mention that its mine its fine ...
The holes in this guidelines are to big & controversy .
The question is how did we avoid it until now .
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If we find someone spamming Scam links in the sg community people did post it to warn other people that this people may have been hijacked that would be calling out aswell ?
Well, no. That's not saying "user X is bad, hate on them!!!!" but more of a PSA of sorts so others aren't also scammed. Is that distinction not clear to you?
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But where is this "distinction" in the rules?
thats something in your mindset .
A mod decides things for himself or how he interpret something .
We user dont see a reason to even argue about it ,if that thread would be against the rules than 90% of sg threads are gonna be against the rules .
If you pick one thread than be so neutral and do this to all threads
Because there are more than 1000-10000threads with links where you can register .(forced by reward in promotion/events)
should i now report 90% of the threads here?Thats something that was in the greyzone since creation .
If you cant be clear about the rules you cant force Users to obey them .
i guess Humble bundle is right to see sg as trading site .
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You seem to be conflating "calling out" with other potential violations. "Calling out" was the point specifically being discussed earlier in this thread between Purpur3141 and myself, and that's all I've been referring to up tho this point. To be sure, that was all I've made any comments on today, and the only reason for doing so is to act in my capacity as a moderator to stop the infringement of calling out as I saw it.
With your reference to other threads/potential violations, I am not addressing those issues in this thread. As I've already stated, these things should be handled through a ticket to support. That's not to say I am not aware of the other issues nor that I am ignoring them. This is simply not the right time or place to discuss.
In an attempt to not be completely dismissive of your comments...
But where is this "distinction" in the rules?
I've already quoted the rules regarding calling out elsewhere in the thread, but the relevant part for your question:
If you have an issue with another user,
There is a strong implication here of negative interaction, i.e. A wronged B. In your scam link example, you can report the user (and should) and you can also say something to the effect of "that link is bad" without pointing to the user directly.
thats something in your mindset .
A mod decides things for himself or how he interpret something .
Well, yes. We are human and prone to some bias no matter how well we try to remain neutral. We've been entrusted to carry out our duties and I feel like the staff overall does a good job. Sure, we can make mistakes, as evidenced by the image posted earlier that I requested be removed. I have also already said in this thread,
issues like this should be taken up with support staff through a ticket. I assure you when a user has an issue with a particular mod or support user, the others of our group will see that it is addressed as fairly as we can manage.
This means that, should you have a problem with a staff member, you are free to follow the correct protocol in raising your concerns with the rest of the staff. If you have problems with rules and/or how they are enforced, you are free to open a thread about it, provided your goal is not to attack individuals in the process. There have been plenty of rules-related threads that were not immediately closed; We aren't here to say "this is how it is and if you don't like it, too bad".
As much as we are staff with special roles in the community, we are still part of the community, and it doesn't serve anyone to try to alienate anyone acting in good faith to improve it.
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You're conveniently ignoring this: https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Kdu9gWR
Some weird uppity bullshit went down right there too.
Mind you, it's not like I'm saying mods are perfect. I've had disagreements with them and they have had disagreements with me. But personally, I'd say it's like a person telling a cop "You don't have the right", when they obviously do. The issue is, for me, that a few of the mods are less than forthcoming with their points or they just don't care to really discuss things. Khalaq's down to discuss and it's pretty good. Personally I didn't see an issue with the thread to start off, since the links seemed to be fine to me.
Talking to a mod tends to feel like a one-sided conversation. Usually a judgement's been made and them letting you know about what they think and act on tends to be an order, rather than a warning. Even when multiple community members chime in, odds are they'll stick to their guns and say "well, the rules are broad, so it technically falls under it". With those rules however, you start getting the problem of equal rights and equal lefts not being adhered to.
For example, I was suspended. Personally, I didn't think I was doing what they accused me of, but I could also see that I was being a cunt. The problem is that so were others. I don't want them to be punished, but I also don't get why these punishments are given out so erratically. And when appealing, the appeal gets looked through by the mod that already decided you were guilty. For example, when I pressed the issue, all I got was "Well, because", essentially. Very subjective statements and opinions that I had to be suspended for. The "victim" of the situation was cool about it and so was I, yet since the mod felt uncomfortable, I was at fault. I'm no victim here, but I can't say I agree either.
Doesn't mean you can be a dick to mods though. Fact is that these things require judgement calls. Rudeness isn't easily defined. I think that it doesn't help that a suspension dispute can be answered by the person who already thinks you're guilty and I don't think it helps that the community isn't taken into consideration on these things. But all in all, it's a fair enough system.
Also... what are you expecting with threatening to delete your account? Makes your argument sound more childish than something that can be listened to and debated. It's a weird approach to this whole thing.
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So I have been banned many times already, but the mods always made sure to let me know why it was my fault. And they did a great job at that as well.
Why would I hate on mods? They're people as well.
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A worthy necro. Thank you, mods, for all you do for us. :)
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That's a beautiful post. Khalaq. 👍
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I like the time Khalaq called out a specific user with this MEGAWARNING!!! about how they can't make anymore DIG threads, and demanded they pay him fealty by acknowledging they've heard the word of law with a post in the next day or so before he abandons his benevolent temperament.
Except the thread was old AF, long ago abandoned, and the specific dude hadn't even logged in for over a month.
And naturally when called out on its, Khalaq informed everyone about his obvious knowledge of all that duh
Meaning he was purposefully summoning ghosts to bend the knee and "reskept his authooritay"
Cause I guess THAT'S the excuse which SAVES face???
fremdschämen fo sho
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And naturally when called out on its, Khalaq informed everyone about his obvious knowledge of all that duh
Or, more likely, someone filed a support ticket and he was replying to that when it came up in the queue.
That would be the logical assumption.
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I mean hey I think that makes more sense too, but he's the one who said he already knew
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I knew about it as well (IIRC I remarked about it in the thread), so I don't see why someone else wouldn't know. Regardless, support was obligated to deal with the ticket, as late as it may be.
I'm sure you remember a time when support tickets could take ages to deal with. Would you rather support simply ignored those tickets? Or would we get more complaints that support is ignoring tickets? Or is this a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario here?
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The point of humor is more HOW he responded being silly and cringeworthy for the circumstance, but even more so if he actually knew all the stuff he had pointed out to him and there's actually no rational reason to expect the user to even see that, so that much more absurd to be so vigorous about demanding they stop doing a thing that has long ago ceased. and make sure they acknowledged his authority with a nice "yiissur" if they ever came back anyway.
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Khalaq
why you peeps do think this thread is about him. this is about Mods. burning out, also...
so, how much does it take, peeps?
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Maybe it's because it's a necro thread talking about mods and he's one now XD I was confused about the thread until I saw release date
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necro
drama, the real drama, as you all can see, this is not yet necro.
where the hell "necro" is?
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Was he? I wasn't here at the time, I just assumed lol
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Khalaq was a moderator before I started using SG (regularly) about 4 years ago. Some people appear to believe this thread is an opportunity or open forum to air their grievances with him in particular since he is the OP.
While I haven't always agreed with Khalaq (or other moderators - and I make no bones about letting them know as much), I've always felt those sorts of things were better kept off the forums, and either in private conversation or support tickets. I truly wonder how some of these people would react if they were attacked like this in their own threads. I'm willing to bet they'd be the first in line filing tickets and begging for support to come rescue them.
I don't envy support the time they give this community.
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"I truly wonder how some of these people would react if they were attacked like this in their own threads. I'm willing to bet they'd be the first in line filing tickets and begging for support to come rescue them."
Pretty much. It's okay to practically cyberbully someone who was given forum janitor status, but if anyone goes near them with the same style of BS, heads will roll.
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I would totally agree if it were any ordinary thread, but the nature of this particular thread is like a glass house staging a baseball game. It openly invites the very sort of criticism and counterpoints that conflict with its point by presenting the opposite declarative generalizations in the first place for whatever its intended purpose.
If you look at comparable situations among user threads, you actually do end up with exactly the same sort of thing and people who complain about, I dunno, blacklisting for no reason will end up being reminding of similarly having blacklisted people for petty reasons in the past as well.
edit - It's the same here with this unspoken OP presumption that all these actions and criticisms of mods are unfair HATERS HATIN' without daring to wonder if perhaps people are HATIN because there's some points maybe worth listening to and ones that keeps swept under the rug with blanket feel-goodery "I'm just doing a thankless job!" excuses as if that covers every aspect of it. The thread wasn't even created as a blanklet "hey thanks" celebration of mod things told in celebratory fashion, it was written from a shaming of users POV characterizing a lot of stuff that could easily be valid as that HATIN in order to make its celebratory status.
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Because it is? Thread creator making a thread about "oh woe is us who have sinned" presenting himself among them while using it to fellate the group "who we hath wronged!!" of which he considers himself among and with indeed to get praise. I mean .... it's pretty freaking obvious... let someone else make the thread if it needs to be made... otherwise it's just self aggrandizing BS like it was when originally made and still is now.
It's a pretty bad way of limiting obvious alternatives with far more reason to be true, like maybe he can be right about some mods (other people) while wrong about different mods when using one singular wide brushstroke to paint them all (I wont name names).
It's also fails to address the elephant in the room: maybe some mods should burn out ....
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I could be wrong (it was a long time ago and I'm a borderline drunkard) but at the time this topic was made I seem to recall a number of good mods had quit while other people were moaning that rerolls, etc were taking too long because their weren't enough mods. It certainly felt very valid to me at the time. Using it to vent over specific arguments over a year later seems slightly unfair.
Heaven knows I haven't always agreed with Khalaq myself but he has always seemed like he was at least trying to do the right thing. He isn't infallible but I honestly believe he does better than 99.999% of folks here would do in his shoes. Be careful what you wish for hoping mods might burn out - you might end up with me instead and I'd really show people some totalitarian, erratic, biased, despotic modding...
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I seem to recall a number of good mods had quit while other people were moaning that rerolls, etc were taking too long because their weren't enough mods
You remember well, Sixes. ;)
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Sometimes I remember the time I went to Ireland on a motorbike to kill a bunch of people because my son had been kidnapped and then I remember that actually happened in Sons of Anarchy and I was just drinking a lot at the time and was living by a field that magic mushrooms grew in. I'm never absolutely sure about things that happened in the past...
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Umm, why are you doing this? :(
It almost sounds as if your answer to "Hmm, this thread says that being mean can make mods burn out." is "Cool! Let's try it! Maybe it really works!" :(
Obviously that's a misunderstanding on my part...
If you're having a problem with a specific user's behaviour here, I suggest creating a support ticket. Maybe you can remember the time when those tickets took ages to be answered, because so few support people were still around... :(
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I was wondering why the burnout thread was being bumped so much lately, I wish I could go back to not knowing lol
Keep your head up Khalaq and also happy Ramadan :)
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you're still a great mod, in my book. ..."freshest" one!
happy Ramadan, everybody
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fresh to death, dressed to impress
Fresh for real, dressed to kill
I'm the best for real, I was blessed with skill
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With uttermost respect, either I'm blasting through my life at a scary tempo, or it is Ramadan weirdly often.
(after some googling, I'm just getting old at a breakneck tempo)
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The meat grinder which is SteamGifts Moderation continues to take it's toll. Those Mods who have the most experience, the most dedication, the most exemplary work ethic, the most love for this site, they are the ones most likely to burn out and leave. I am not talking about those Mods who have been abrasive and difficult to deal with in the past. I am talking about those who were truly a blessing to this site. Those who served the Community well and sunk so much time and energy into making this site a great place to hang out. With the love these individuals had for all of us, what could possibly drive them away?
It was us.
Quite frankly, we have been toxic and abusive toward our Moderators. We complain about what they're not doing. We complain about what they are doing. We complain about how they should be doing things our way, and then when they actually do things our way, we complain about how it should have been done better. We spam Support with tickets and then complain about a lack of responsiveness. When a Mod requests something of us, we argue endlessly and then complain about delays. We pester the Mods at all hours of the day, posting abuse and demands for attention on their Steam walls. We complain about them, insult them, and libel them in the forum and discussion sections. Some of us even go so far as to gang up on them with friends, perhaps because it is easier to bully someone when you have help. Is it any wonder that such behavior takes it toll on the Support Staff?
Our Moderators are volunteers. A handful of them serve thousands of SG users. They take time out of their day to serve the SG Community in exchange for virtually nothing in return. They do this because they want to help make SG a better place to be. For every person who shows gratitude, however, there are perhaps twenty or thirty telling the Mods what horrible people they are and that they should just leave. There is a long list of Mods and Supports who finally reached the point where they could not handle the hate anymore and did exactly that. They left. Some of SG's most well-known members have also called it quits. These were people who were regular contributors and a positive influence on the site, and now they are gone.
So, I have to ask the question. What have we gained with all the hate? What benefit has been achieved by spreading misery? Instead of sharing the best of ourselves, we have chosen to share the worst. Instead of building people up, we have been busy tearing them down. If we are so concerned about what a miserable world we live in, why have we striven so ardently to make things as bad as possible? That is a question each of us must answer for him or herself.
Life is difficult enough without allowing Hate a home in our hearts.
P.S.(I use "us" and "we" because I am part of the SG Community. While I may not have taken part in some of the things others have done, I bear responsibility for my own failures in being as helpful or as positive as I might have been. It is up to me to improve myself.)
P.P.S.(Thanks to all of you who have expressed support. I have edited the OP's title for clarity should this thread continue to be necro'd.)
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