Why? Look at the last humble bundle, there was a Darksiders 2 for 6$. Now you can go to steamgifts site and give away key from the bundle saying that it "contains" Darksiders 2. Can anyone stop you/suspend from doing that? No. And it's just CV farming in this way. Bundled games belong in bundled list, no matter if they are packaged or not.
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Because making as many bags as there are games, and having to argue which is what is impossible.
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As was stated, the problem is that people will just mask the "package key" as one of the individual games in the package (usually the highest priced one).
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Then, if that's the only point, why create a contributor restriction? When you go to donate clothes, do you separate it between the homeless people?? "no, this is not for you, you don't have the enought amount of beard to wear this... but you do have, here, take it..."
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The contributor restrictions where made to thank those who have contributed to this charity. People just dont buy games just to have chance to win. Dont you honestly think that those who have donated games valued of few hundreds or thousand couldnt just buy any game that they want themselves?
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I thought you could get suspended for that. You're supposed to give away exactly what you say you're giving away.
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otherwise people would probably spend 1$ to gift the humble key as painkiller (and bonus) and get 20$ cv for it. ^^
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Support used to have it done this way.
The change was made because some people don't give a **** and they were able to get away with it too often, and it also meant a lot more tickets to respond to, and the Support team can't keep up with everything with that mass.
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Human nature. Some people are arseholes. Because they see free games, they want to be here. And they will exploit everything they can to increase their chances, like cheating for CV. They don't care they are breaking rules, and you don't want to know the amount of tickets Support was dealing with for such giveaways before the change.
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Man you win a Darksiders 2 giveaway, the guy who made the giveaway send you a key with Darksiders and extra stuff included, maybe you would be mad because he send extra stuff from bundle to farm CV and rush to denounce him, or maybe you would just be happy about getting a free game AND extra free stuff and/or lazy to go open a ticket and let it go.
May not look but would be too damn easy to people just get away with it, as Delta said.
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Actually, the page you linked is for the Game of Thrones Special Edition, which is not the one in the Humble Bundle. I don't think the vanilla game is sold on Steam anymore.
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I'm not arguing about how much you cut the price, I'm just saying that those games when are packaged, there must not be on the "bundles list", because you can't giveaway a package, and you can't divide the package into individual serial numbers for each game... I just don't understand why are they still on the list, if I can't giveaway them...
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So basically what i read a few seconds of your MAIN topic meanas you wanna buy 1 $ bundles & make it so you get the full CV of one of the games?ROFLCOPTER NICE TRY BRA' .
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Nope, I'm asking why are those games on the list, if you can't give them away. The only games I gave away, we're bought from steam using discounts I won from creating badges. I just don't get they idea of putting those games on the list if you can't give them away, just as simply as that.
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I get what ur saying xD but mentionin gameminer 's system idk if it's even allowed ( for example shitty g@-censore-lagiveaways has censored all the other nice giveaways sites & i hate it almost as much as playblink-wich is rigged the pb lol), someone/multiple people did suggest this i think,having different " exp " aka Contributor Value based on wether it's gift or key since the gifts are from SteamStore ffs and the keys are from whatever bundles /gameshops :D .It's a good ideea that has been suggested by many people but the way you put it in the original post made me think exactly as i wrote you in the first reply :)
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[that idea, and the following code](http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/w1t7Z/bundled-games-giveaways/page/1#20906292]
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As of a couple of months ago, you are allowed to give away packaged keys under any of the titles the package contains. Please read here for the opinions of three members of support (bobofatt, wbarton, Crossbourne), who all affirm that this practice is okay.
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So? What you've said it's absolutely irrelevant to the main subject. There are ways to see if the user recieved a packaged bundle or a stand alone game, and the creator should recieve the correct ammount of value for the game, or the bundle, depending on what he gave. If he wants to create a GA with a bundle, be my guest, good for him, he definitely should recieve 20% (despite that he should ask for the bundle to be added to the list instead of creating a GA of a random game from the bundle) but if a user creates a GA for a stand-alone retail game, that is NOT PACKAGED in a bundle, he should absolutely recieve 100% of the value.
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I was replying to your post in which you clearly say that you "can't giveaway a package." Support says otherwise. I don't see why my post is irrelevant to the one I was replying to.
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What I've said is that you can't divide a package bundle key, into individual game keys. Wanna try? Be my guest, then let me know the results, try to split the one serial key for the humble weekly bundle into individual keys for each game. I dare you.
(That's what i've said)
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KillingArts already told you: people would simply give away the bundle key as the most expensive game.
Since support can't check what exactly has been delivered to the winner, it's the easiest way to put each individual bundle game on the bundle list.
And your argument "I can't give away a package" is invalid, most bundles can be given as the appropriate bundle.
If a bundle is not (yet) on the list, contact support and nicely ask that the bundle should be added - it may take some time though, becasue cg has to edit the list manually.
Cheers =)
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seems as if you don't want to understand.
people try to cheat the system all the time, if everyone was honest, there would be no need to put every single game of a package on the bundle list.
fact is: people are not honest, thus the current system - and the system will not be changed just because you QQ about it.
if you can provide a way, how steamgifts can automaticall check what the giveaway creator has given to the winner, then be my guest and post it, else you should just read all the answers of this thread again until you actually understand why things are as they are.
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Men, you don't understand something. Games from humble bundle must be marked as bundled, because people can giveaway them. You create giveaway with most valuable game and then send the key for whole package. And the rest game is bonus. And you also don't have any chance to control this or check. How do you want to check this? Too many crooks to give the opportunity for abuse.
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Maybe I don't understand well the discussion that is going on here, but as far as I know you can give a bundle package by just creating a giveaway for a game in this package, right ?
For example, you can give away the Deep Silver bundle (below average) by just creating a giveaway for one of the games in the package. The winner gets more than advertised and it's not cheating the CV system since you still just get bundle CV for this.
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Actually, SG is connected to your steam account, so they basically can see what games you have there, so, if you won ONE GAME, and magically you have all the bundle added, it's kinda obvious that the creator of the GA cheated. I'm just thinking outside the box, I consider there are a few ways to get things done better than they are now.
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How do you consider this cheating ? Giving more than advertised... enlighten me, please.
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Oh, really, let's ask support if this is cheating, shall we ?
"Greetings, steamgifts support members.
I have keys from the Deep Silver Bundle, which contain several games (one is Risen 2 + Sacred 2 Gold + Saints Row 2 + Saints Row: The Third, the other is Metro 2033 + Risen + Sacred Citadel).
Is it okay to create a giveaway for such multi-games keys ? For example, create a giveaway for Saints Row The Third and let people know that the key gives more than that ?
Thank you for reading me and for your help, in advance."
Response from support :
"Hello DavidSarif.
Yes, you can do it like that. All games that are in the bundle are now included in the bundle list, so as long as you deliver the game you selected, you're in the clear.
Thanks for using support, let us know if you have questions."
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If you let the people know that there is a bundle that you are giving away, then you get the 20% of the game, is it's the individual game, not bught from a bundle, you get the 100%. Is it that hard to understand what I'm trying to say? Don't put everything under the same light.
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Whether you give Saints Row The Third Individually or not, you just get the bundle contribution for it, and that's not cheating.
I did that, I could just have told people that it was SR3, the winner wouldn't have been bothered, neither would I have I cheated the system because SR3 was considered a bundle game anyway.
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And how do you check if people are being honest and just giving one game they bought from an actual store and not the whole package of a bundle?
Do you really think that most people who wins for example 1 game and receive 5 bonus will even report the guy who gave him those 6 games?
Sorry but this world is not an utopia where everything is pink and all the people are trustable.
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By that, you are kinda implying SG is the only way people could get games. If for example they traded for the other games that happen to be in the same bundle (or the complete bundle for that matter afterwards) SG coding would think the bundle key was given, while it was not.
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Ok so last week i gave away two complete bundles with separate keys for each game to two lucky guys (1 giveaway = complete bundle), by your terms (not steamgifts) i cheated the giveaway by giving the game the person won along with multiple games along with the bundle?
Man oh man, humanity just keeps getting worst.
Oh and farming CV is for morons, just easier to save money and buy your own things if you want to be like that, gifting is like charity from strangers towards other strangers, you don't go on doing charity expecting to get something in return all the time, at times you get something back as an appreciation token, we call that "karma".
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So, who the **** is supposed to keep checking all the winners profiles every time one of those games is given away? Are you volunteering to do this honestly massive job?
Maybe now you realize your idea is bloody stupid.
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If that was done, people wouldn't already be cheating with fake giveaways.
Now, let me repeat myself.
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Yes, it CAN be done. Easiest way would actually be to let some middleman SG account or something handle the actual transaction (you give either the key or the gift 'to the site' and by that it also immidiately knows which one you gave). Would also be more foolproof as the site simply knows whether it was a gift or a serial.
But it would simply take way too much effort to create any such system (both for the thing you are suggesting, as the thing I described). Mind you, this is not a commercial site (yes, they have some adds running, but I doubt that is highly profitable).
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SG is connected to your steam account, but it can't check your library every 5 seconds (not without upsetting Valve). Remember the gift creator has one week to send the game and you have one week to confirm you received a game... and in one week many things can happen.
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With some coding, you can set a rule. All the winners of a game that is in a bundle, need to resync their account in order to keep using SG, when they resync their account, you can see if they activated all the games from the bundle, or just one key. :)
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WRONG.
They set their profile to public > they resync > they change their profile back to private > no way to know if they got just 1 game or a bundle.
They won't be able to join for the remaining games on the bundle, but no one will also be able to check what games they got. People would abuse the system and still give bundles that they spent 1$ on it and get full value from them.
Quoting Delta:
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I can see you are not a coder.
<?php
$wongame = "Painkiller Hell & Damnation";
$wontime = microtime();
$lastsync = connect to MySQL to check
if($wontime - $lastsync >0) {
ASK FOR A RESYNC
} else {
CHECK THE ACCOUNT
}
$listofgames = array($games);
if(in_array("Arcania - Gothic 4",$list of games) || in_array(repeat for games on the bundle)) {
do(GIVE THE CREATOR 20%);
} else {
do(GIVE THE CREATOR 100%*)
}
?>
(italic means underscore u.u)
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Take your 'great idea' to Support.
I want them to quote me like Aserith did.
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I'm just asking because I want to know why they didn't do it yet, and what the users think of the limitation on bundled games, maybe it's not your case, but what if from now on, you win discounts at steam for games that once were on a bundle, let say, twice a month, and you already own them? Why you should still get 20% of their value when you actually purchased it from steam, and not from a bundle?
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Like because while you think its a simple idea to implement, it would add a lot of crap for the site to process. The site has enough problems with bundle spam being able to slow down the site at times, and you want it to be doing a lot more at those times.
That would be a massive problem.
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And heres the problem. There have been times where there has been so many bundle games, it was taking minutes to load a single page. You want the site to deal with all that and add scaning profiles every timer a win gets confirmed.
And you don't yet realize why this is a bad idea?
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And yet, for all your assurances that your idea will work, the site admin has not considered it worth attempting in all the time since the change or before it. Considering all the changes he has made to make this site effective, your idea would have been done one of the many previous times it was suggested if it was workable.
And yet, here we are.
You idea will not work, and many reasons why have already been stated. Please, let this topic go. The site is not opening the flood gates to all that CV cheating again.
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Yet you still thinks that I'm trying to cheat. Go on, I do not care what you think about me, I'm just saying that there are some improvements that could be done here, to be more fair to everyone, and specially, those who buy games instead of bundles, and I wanted to point out that it could be done with something as easy as a few lines of code. You don't have to like what I've said, but you can't thinking that it's impossible to reach that, I made a damn debug rule to sort it out in less than 3 minutes, it is not impossible, deal with it.
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If it was so **ing simple, IT WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DONE MONTHS AGO. It isn't. You think that someone who put together this site from scratch wouldn't have done that one of the MANY other times it has been suggested? Its like you can't READ**.
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Since your stupidity is nested too deeply for me to directly comment to it now, I'll have to reply to my previous post.
The Site creator doesn't think it is a workable idea. I think he knows more about the site, and what is workable with it, than you. But if you are so convinced your idea will work, go make your own damn site for this stuff, rather than trying to convince anyone that you can 'improve' this site.
Because, as has already been said repeatedly, by many people, with many reasons, and apparently ignore by you each time, your idea will not work.
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Too many replies, can't reply to you directly. If the site owner does or doesnt' want to implement it, that doesn't mean that this kind of work can be done. Seriously, ask someone with coding skills, and let's see what they say.
The answer should be somthing like "admin don't want it" or "admin do not care" or "admin gives a shit about your coding skills", but I'm 100% sure that "will not work" is a WRONG ANSWER. If you think it is wrong, please enlighten me with at least 5 scenarios where it can be exploited. Let's see what you've you self proclaimed "owner of the truth of not working codes" (I just say that, because you say "it will not work, if you are THAT sure, prove it, I dare you.)
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And forcing every winner to re-sync their account won't take more bandwidth? What about people who already had all the other games in the bundle key? You code misses a bundle key being given altogether. (Or actually penalises the gifter who game an individual game because the winner has all of the games in his account.)
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As coder myself I agree with Aserith.
It doesn't solve the problem for humble bundles with single keys, and if the winner already had the other bundled games before won the GA creator would take only 20% even if he isn't giving a bundle key.
Sorry for my grammar, but English is not my native language.
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Ok, but has yet to solve the pre-owning problem, let say I won a game and went private, then I bought 5 games, a week later a bundle comes with 6 games and I won the missing one
Here comes the trick part if the SG tries to sync my account and check the games and marked the giveway as bundle, thus making the creator receiving 20% and not 100%?
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Well done there! Nice scenario. that's a tricky one. Yet, it can be solved, just by adding a few more lines to the code, if you won a giveaway, show a popup asking to resync account, in order to the site give the creator yof the giveaway your data. then, you will recieve your gifts, and check if you got a stand alone game, or the whole bundle.
Seriously, awesome scenario. That's the kind of answers I'm expecting.
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Still doesn't work if I get the other games before I get back on the site and sync again.
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It would work, if all games would show up in a user's profile, BUT
1) There are games that never show up (example: GAR - Galactic Arms Race)
2) There are DLCs that never show up
3) There are games that only show up if you've played them
4) There are games that only show up if you've recently (within the last 2 weeks) played them (example: A Game of Dwarves)
Thus, SG does not check on profile syncing, if won games have been activated on a user's account.
Again: good suggestions, but others already thought of it and it simply can not be done.
btw: if you want to use _ underscores _ that show up instead of turning your text italic then you have to escape them with backslash ;)
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A Game of Dwarves and Serious Sam HD The Second Encounter have both been in bundles. Neither game shows up in profile. How do you take care of this?
Also, as dopefish mentions, bundles also give away DLC. There's no way to check through Steam API whether someone has these games or not so syncing will not work.
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Some scenarios that invalidate this code:
Also, the SG system doesn't have 2 states for a game (it can't be "bundle game" and "non-bundle game" for at the same time). It's either purchased before date X (thus, non-bundle) or after date X (bundle). There is no "give the creator X%" too, as there is no fixed variable associated to a CV, it is calculated dynamically based on a users giveaways (that's why CV changes according to the current price).
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And that's where the improvement can be done. There are a lot of ways to sorting that problem out, I spent all my coder life solving problems instead of creating new stuff. I never created anything, I always solved issues to already created pages, and added them more capabilities. I'm just trying to point out that there are a lot of things that can be done about this, is really not hard to solve it.
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I did not received payment always, in fact, most of my work was unpaid, since they we're contributions to people who needed help, or in rare cases bets wether I could or couldn't make something work. I do not like needer want coding to make money, it's just a hobbie for me too, the only code that I charge for, is app coding, such as C++ or C#, because the good compilers and debuggers are not free, unlike web design.
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I can understand it for the base bundle, but can't for the $6 BTA. You often get two games for an extra $5. That's $2.50 a game. Sure, it's almost 92% discount on a $30 game, but it's not hugely different than the discounts you occasionally get elsewhere. It's not the over 99% off you can get with the base bundle.
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Note that nowadays, each tier is one key, so you can no longer give away the $6 BTA tier individually -- you have to give away everything at once (and can only choose one game to give it away as.) That means that for giveaways, it's $5 a game, which is only a 90% discount even for $50 games (and the vast majority of bundled games, even at the BTA tier, cost less than that.)
I don't think the HiB BTA tier is exploitable anymore, so it's probably safe to not bundle-list it. Nobody who is trying to exploit the system would use it anyway -- in terms of dollar-for-CV value, the steepest Steam sales will always beat it.
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If u give games just for CV, you, and a whole bunch of people, understand the idea of this site wrong. Starting threads like this will not give nor you, neither others anything. All you ask is just selfish, lets be honest, you just want some benefits.
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Then why do u care where those games come from? People just share them, bundled or not. Nobody cares where u got your given games, the main thing is that u share them or not.
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Listen to me. If u want to share something, you share it. That simple. If something stops you, u dont do it. We are doing it for others. If u want it to be fair, that means u want it to be fair to you, and only you. If u are so much excited that someone payed less then you to give a game, that is a problem of your honesty, not this site.
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I'm sorry, but it's you who are getting this site wrong. If this site wasn't about CV, then it wouldn't have CV, or CV wouldn't have counted for a thing (like it was at the beginning). Sure I don't like it, but you can't dispute it. It's entirely possible to give games and disregard CV, but since CV is an important part of this site then threads about CV are legitimate and completely expected.
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CV is just a feature to cut off leachers in CV ga's. It is not THAT important.
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Actually, it is. If someone makes a giveaway of, let's say, splinter cell, with no restriction, I think there will be like 10k people joining it, leaving everyone with a amazingly small chance of winning, but if someone creates the same giveaway, with value at least of 500, there will be a HUGE ammount of people that will not be there. What if I bught games on GMG, or WOCK, or wherever, but once were in a bundle, I need to buy 5 times the ammount of games needed to reach 500 in value, because those games will only be worth 20%, making users harder to reach the 500 value goal to join some giveaways.
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Anyone who gave away a game is not just a leacher. CV doesn't just do that, it creates a hierarchy of givers, where the more value you give, the more giveaways you can enter and the more people look up to you. And if you happen to give hundreds of bundle games, well, tough luck, you're still just a bundle giver, which is just a step up from a leacher. Right?
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What? That's making no-sense. People can buy Crysis 2 Max Ed in steam right now with a 75% off... does that mean that I bought it from a bundle? NO, IT DOESN'T! This was just an example, since the EA bundle gave stand alone serial for each game, but nowadays, most of the bundles, give ONE SERIAL, for a PACKAGE of games. What if tomorrow, comes a bundle that give you a package of absolutely every codemasters game? Only one key activates them ALL. And, at the same time, there's an offer on steam, of 90% discount of F1 2013, and you buy it. Why should you get only 20% of the game, when you are NOT giving the bundle, of course, because the bundle activates all the games with one serial, and your serial activates just the f1... You are missing the point, you think that I'm trying to leach, I don't, in fact, I'm trying to make this a little more fair for users who give away a stand-alone game, instead of a bundle.
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I was just making a damn point.
Let's say Cities XL Platinum a week from now is on sale on steam at 11,99 (60% off, cause it's 29,99)
I buy 2 copies of it, and give them away. Since they were on a bundle, I will only recieve 20% of value. Now you understand my point? I did not bought the bundle, yet I recieved only 6 CV for each. It's just wrong.
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I think you are misinterpreting the bundle rules. You don't get an automatic 20% of the games value. You get 20% of your non-bundle value, with the first $25 being "free". In your case, if you give away two copies of Cities XL Platinum, you would get $15.02 in CV. Maximum CV without giving a non-bundled game is $30 (which is $25 "free" + 20% of $25)
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Let's fire up thing a little. Instead of 2 copies, I buy 8 copies. What now? Solve the problem in a fair way for me, that I did not abused the bundle. Your argument is invalid now, since I'll still recieve 15.02, when I gave away 8 games not obtained from a bundle. And specially this case, that is a bundle that is packaged, and it can be retrieved the necessary information to check if the winner recieved a bundle or just a game. Think again your argument now, please.
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First of all, I think you didn't catch the sarcasm, and you're also not really continuing the same discussion (CV and its importance on SG). What I'm trying to say is that CV is an important part of SG, and therefore threads about it and suggestions regarding it are a valid part of the forum.
Anyway, I agree with you, it's a problem. It's even worse since it's not 20%, it's 20% of the rest of your value, and if you only give games which were in bundles you can never go over $30 value. Another problem is, it lasts forever. You could buy a game a year from now, and you'll still get nothing for it.
Frankly that's one reason I'm giving more at the GOG forum these days.
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Sure. But bitching about full credit does not make u a better human, right?
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I think I finally get your point OP, you'd like steamgifts to check whether your gift comes from a bundle or not... Like if I give away a giftable version of Bastion I bought during the sales or something, I'm kind of screwed because the game has been sold in a bundle at some point...
So I'd like steamgifts to give me full CV for it because I didn't get it from a bundle... Except that it's not possible, at least at the moment, because there's no way to check if I'm really giving the winner a key or a gift. Support would have to check every giveaway to check if the creator of the GA has a giftable copy in his inventory... that would be an insane amount of work, considering the number of giveaways that are being made on the site.
And an automated process would have no means to check.
edit : except your code stuff that might make sense in the case of multi-games keys.
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Regardless of how the game is acquired and regardless of whether it's a key or a gift, it's being activated on someone's account which means that they are identical in the end. Gifts are more valuable on the trading market because you can trade it again whereas a key is really only safe in a trade if you get it first and activate it on your account immediately. This difference does not apply to the SG rules so why should a key or a gift be considered differently when handing out CV?
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But even if your solution was feasible, (and I'm sure CG and his army of coders are already doing their best to improve how the site works) even if it did work...
It would only work for package games, not for single games. That would be unfair for some cases. Also your idea is based on the site automatically checking users for proper activation of their gifts, which it doesn't currently do in the first place. I mean, there are still people getting busted from time to time so I guess it's because the site cannot keep track of each other's profile and doesn't check automatically.
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An unfair situation may be this one: let say I won a game and went private, then I bought 5 games, a week later a bundle comes with 6 games and I won the missing one, ok?
Here comes the trick part if the SG tries to sync my account and check the games and marked the giveway as bundle, thus making the creator receiving 20% and not 100%?
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Man, suck to say that, as I'm here for just 2 month, but you know the real problem here? It's on your profile, "Registered 1 month ago".
Don't take me wrong, the thing is, I'm here for 2 months and I've seen endless guys who as me are here for a few month making topic "Hey I have this great idea of how change CV system" or "This is why CV system is wrong" or anything like. Damn check this guy, see in his profile where say "Registered 2 years ago"? yeah, he is here for 12 times longer I've been here and 24 times longer than you, why should we know more tham him about how he keep his site?
I'll do even a small edit here: Maybe you're just trying to see why never been done anything like that with older uders, anyway, if you think your idea about the coding stuff it's really good and effective, you should try to point it to suport directly maybe instead of foruns, just my 1 cent about that.
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Then, since I'm here only for a month, does that make me less important? Does that means that my code will not work? I maybe here only one month, but I worked with php, javascript, ajax and mysql since 2002, the main point here is not you time since you're here, is the idea of improve the system to make better and fairly for everyone here.
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As I said, don't take me wrong, the problem it's not that you cod would not work or your opinion be less important, it's just that each week people see 2, 3 guys talking about how or why CV/bundle system should be changed, and that's why most people are more inclinated to just ignore your ideas.
I just don't understand about codding to say anything about your code idea, but I can say that should be maybe more effective to just send your ideas for suport first than just expose it on forum. But as said before, just my penny.
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While I can't fault your coding credentials, the fact is that at 1 month old, you don't know enough background information about this retarded bundle games/CV mess that steamgifts is. Variations of your idea have been, in fact, posted before, among the numerous "fixes" for the CV system and bundle games that people suggest all the time. Simply put, this doesn't seem to be a very high priority for the site admin, and there are far more important things to take care of. Keep in mind that cg is doing this as a hobby in his spare time. He's also spending a lot of time on support tickets, ban appeals, etc.
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So, because it is a hobbie they don't take suggestions? Please, gimme a break! Besides that, the right answer then will not be, like everyone said "you can't" or "f*ck it, you want full CV for a bundle", there should be instead "site admin do not care about improvement as much as you think" or "he's fine the way it is and do not care if you get you value right or not".
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You are ignoring the part of my post in which I state that this idea (or variations of it) have been suggested in the past already. I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad to repeat an idea, but you have to understand that because you haven't been here that long, you are missing some background knowledge that might help you flesh out your ideas further. In addition, you would also know that if you want your idea to be taken more seriously you should open a support ticket.
As to your more inflammatory portion of your post, there have been several people in this thread who have stated that cg is just doing this as a hobby, implying that perhaps he may not have time to take care of this. Not everyone is saying '"you can't" or "f*ck it, you want full CV for a bundle"' as you seem to think.
Please don't ignore posts or portions of posts just because they don't suit your agenda.
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I'm also stting that this code is pretty simple, I'm not saying that it has to be taken, or that it has to be implemented tomorrow, but if they start to working on it, even if they don't have a lot of time, in a month or maybe two at the most, it will be finished. Maybe I'm missing some background story here, I'm aware of that, but I don't know if the previos posts were made by people with a solid aknowledge of web coding, and since there is no "keyword" to search ("bundle" returns tons of posts, such as "suggestion" or "value", or "giveaway"), so I can't search the forums to read all the posts prior to me with this particular topic. And actually, several people said that I wanted full CV for a bundle, and other large ammount of people said that there is no way that it can be done.
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The place to give suggestion is in the support area, right now you're posting your suggestion in the public forum. If you want the admin to look at your idea, send it to the admin, not to the other users.
You think you're the first one who comes up with such an idea, convinced it can be done in a fool-proof way when many of us already proved to you how much youtr idea is flawed? Similar ideas where suggested bwefore and there's a reason it's not been done.
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I've been coding php (the language of 98% of web pages) for over a decade now, and I can assure you, with some code on the web page, it can be done. I made a prototype of the code that can be used to sort this problem out in less than 3 minutes, since is a prototype, it only shows the steps of the procces, it is not the full code. Full code, contains more details on each step than the prototype code, but if the prototype of a code can be made in a few minutes, then the full code shouldn't take longer than a few days.
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The only way to "fix" this would be by having the user input the code, the algorithm checking the code if it is a package or a solo game (whichc isn't possible without activating the game) and then giving it to the winner.
The code shouldn't have to be entered on this page, that is a total tabu.
Since PhP can't be used for desktop programming afaik making a program to check what was activated is not an option neither (would be retaded to enforce that anyway).
Simply having a text output is a joke and I am surprised if you would be calling that coding, plus it is more than easily abusable. Having a group of 3, one guy makes a bundle GA, two others enter the private GA, he gets full CV, they avtivate the package and still simply say "I GOT A KEY FOR JUST THIS GAME, NOT THE PACKAGE", plus accidents will happen a lot, just like people are asking about why their CV is capped at 30 or what the asteriks means.
I see no application for coding to fix this issue.
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SG already stores the games you own somewhere in the database.
When marking a gift as received, SG could easily use PHP / Javascript to get the user's current library and compare it against his library entries in the database.
However, since some games/DLC do not show up in a user's library, this has never been implemented.
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Then again not everyone is marking a gift as received instantly, also even if everoyne would the server load would be too big to justify it.
It would be possible for you to get the bundle yourself after winning or to get all the games seperately from the store (inprobable, but not impossible) which would lead to false results.
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Actually, with the problem here is not the server load, if you make regular maintenance of the database, the server will not overload, the main problem causing the load delay, is the bandwith (server is responding with at least 500ms). That kind of code will not affect the server load at all, because is only executed when someone create a GA of a game on a previously created list, and it's only server side, wich doesn't affects the bandwith at all.
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No need to mark the gift as received instantly, because no-one can check if the gift has actually be delivered.
Server load is not high, because you only have 1 select, 1 http request and a few string compares - nothing that will stress the CPU oo much.
Yes, buying the games individually is possible, but since there's a forced sync every 7 days, that would mean that you'd have to buy all games of that bundle within a week, wich is - as you already said - improbable (but not impossible).
But it's really no use to exercise everything in theory, when practically the "bottle neck" is Steam's web api, which doesn't show all owned games/DLC.
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Okey, I totally disagree with you, that code is a prototype of the steps, I'm not creating the full code here, because I can't implement it. It's just a waste of time for me, but I'm pointing out that it is possible to make it. You do not need "desktop programming". Think a little more:
1) Put the bundled games on a list
2) every giveaway of a game on that list, gives the creator a checkbox. (checked = bundle / not checked = stand alone game)
3) create give away, wait for winner.
4) giveaway creator can't see the winner's contact info, until he resync his/her steam account - meanwhile, the winner recieves an email/popup on the web, telling him that in order to recieve the free game, he need to resync the account.
5) now SG have the games list of the winner, and the creator of the GA recieves the contact info of the winner
6) winner recieves the key and uses it
7) in order to give feedback, and continue participating in SG, the winner must resync the account once again to check the games.
8) SG can now compare the before/after games, and see if the key that the creator provided was really a stand alone game, or a packaged bundle of several games
9) in case of a packaged bundle, the creator recieves the ammount of 20% (or maybe he get's the bundle price), otherwise, if it was just that game, the creator recieves 100%.
10) end of coding.
That's what I was trying to point out, and that's why I made a prototype code. It 'll be a waste of time making the complete code just to post it here, my point is that THAT CODE CAN BE DONE, and you can't deny it.
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Between point 6 and point 7 up to a week can pass. There is no way to tell what happened in the mean time. So a gifter could easily claim that he gifted a non bundled game, but the winner got himself other games (or the bundle itself) from other sources during that week.
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One human mantain the site, that human could make the code. I know for a fact that the site is maintained, because if you open a support ticket, you get response, that means that there is another human being in front of a computer somewhere in the world.
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I'm confused what you're trying to say here. Checking keys can't be easily automated and will have to be done manually by a support member, all of whom are volunteers who help cg in their spare time. Tickets can already take days or weeks to resolve. This will just add on work load to an already understaffed site.
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Just five posts above, you stated "In that case, you can ask for the already used key, put it on steam, it will say that is a duplicated key, but it will tell you the original product, a bundle, or a retail game."
We are down the path of the point raised by ryuga, which is a scenario that even you admit that the key must be checked.
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I think it might be a bit more common than you think. Bundle contents are often leaked ahead of time - when people get that information, they tend to try to give away their non-bundle copies as soon as possible before they become worthless. It's pretty easy to see people entering that giveaway, winning, then buying the bundle when it releases a couple of days later to get the rest of the games.
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I never saw a duped message from steam that wouldn't say the game, do you have a serial from a game that actually doesn't show the name? I would love to see it, not that I don't believe you, just that I never saw that happening, and really love to see it, and try to figure out why it's different than the rest of the games.
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Personally I think they should update games in the list to expire after a year (since the last bundle). I wanted to give away some extra gifts I have in my inventory but then I noticed the asterisk there despite the fact that the last bundle containing that game was a year or so ago ( for example one of the games was Binding of Isaac, of which the last bundle was LAST FRIGGING YEAR). What's the point of me giving it away if it doesn't help me with my own chances of winning (by giving me a higher CV, which will enable me to get farther away from the leechers?). I'd rather sell or trade it off if it doesn't bring me any benefits to create a giveaway.
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No, very bad suggestion. What would prevent people to buy keys and wait a year to get full CV for 1 buck? Also, if you are just worried about CV, you shouldn't be here neither spend money for games for others. Just buy yourself what you want.
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Wrong, being elitist is making excessive CV value giveaways only a few can join, any giveaways up to 60 bucks should be accepted normally. The average gifter would probably have 30 CV due to bundle games, double that would make sense since most new titles are around 60 bucks full price on retailers.
Anything higher than 60 i would call elitist move (yes i did make giveaways higher value than that, wasn't me who picked the value, just a fyi), anyways, people do what they want with the things they buy... right? It's none of our business, i don't like it either but you can't have everything the way you want to in life.
When i want to gift something to people via steamgifts, i always make it in a limited way, like opening a group for X minutes and posting in forums to join or accepting the first 50 requests to join the group, or going to chat and make a private giveaway with random rules picked via random.org or people from chat itself. I usually don't care if people will play the game they won or not (as long as it isn't something expensive that collects dust in the library, that pisses me off quite a bit).
tl;dr There are multiple factions and sub factions in this website, CV farmers; generous gifters who don't give a damn about CV; leechers; bundle gifters and many more. These are probably the most common. Oh and if the contributor value was removed, people would still make group/private giveaways for the selected who would be legit to get in their overvalued giveaways.
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I'm not agains private giveaways, or group giveaways, or nothing like that.
Let's put this scenario:
Today is a package bundle, one of those games is, let's say, PES 2013.
Two months from now, bundle ended, I found an offer at GMG, or WOCK, or any site, PES 2013 at 2.99. I decide to buy 10 copies of it.
It's just wrong to recieve 20%, when I am clearly not giving away a bundle package. If this scenario repeats with 10 or maybe 15 more games, in a year from now, I'll have let's say 200 CV when it should be around 1000. I just say, it's wrong to limit every damn game that is in a PACKAGE bundle with other 5 games, and I'm not giving away the bundle. That restriction will prevent me for joining a consider ammount of GA with a restriction of let's say 750 CV, that if this code were done, I would clearly pass that limit.
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Imagine this scenario. I bought 100 humble bundles today because I know in a year they will give me 100% value.
That's why bundled games must stay bundles for at least as long as they become widely available in same price (if some bundle had 3 games for $1, then when steam make normal -75% sale and price of them during that sale will be less than 30 cents - then it can be taken off bundle list).
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Then explain to everyone here, why the developers of the site designed the CV in the first place. If they thought like the rest of you downers, they never would have implemented it. It is a tool to be used, and it will be used. If you don't care about it, then that's your prerogative, not ours. We're actually going to fully utilize what this site has to offer us. That doesn't mean we're going to abuse it.
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If you are just worried about CV, you shouldn't be here neither spend money for games for others. Just buy yourself what you want. Also, welcome to many blacklist.
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If you think that giving away games to get more games is a solid investment strategy, I believe you will most likely come up short.
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Oh, no worries, I wasn't talking to you. I just thought that Noudaism was treating steamgifts as some sort of investment based on his post.
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Then you thought wrong. It's a legitimate concern, that games aren't worth anything anymore, just because they were in a "bundle" over a year ago, and only a year ago, never since. There should be a grace period after a certain expiration point of the bundle, where the game goes back to full value. You people are all concerned about people abusing the system, when you seem to forget that Steam Game Keys expire after a period of time. Just make the start date for the grace period a few days after those keys expire. Simple as that.
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Is your name Noudaism? Should I report you for having an alternate account?
Please provide a source that all Steam keys expire after a period of time.
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I was actually misinformed about this. So disregard that part of the statement. Though the rest of it stands. I am not this person, but I stand by my rebuttal. At least for me, it is less for the CV as it is the annoyance that a game only having been in a bundle over a year ago, still merits no value to the contributor. Granted, these things may never change, but it will not stop any of us from suggesting it. In the very least, extremely strenuous rules would have to be put in place for the change, and like I said, it may never happen. Don't bother saying "well that's not what this site is for" because if CV meant nothing then the developers would have never implemented it in the first place. It is a tool to further customize who can take advantage of a giveaway, nothing more.
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You are not Noudaism, so how can you address a question directed towards him on his thoughts towards the topic?
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You never asked them a question, you just assumed what they were thinking. As I said "at least for me", I never implied I knew this person's thoughts, and was speaking for myself. I actually paid attention to what they were saying, instead of zoning in on the one thing that I could use to start an argument, so I interpreted it differently than you. You should probably learn to properly interpret what you read before you start a rebuttal, because you obviously didn't understand what I was saying, as I was speaking for myself.
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My mistake, I should have said "statement addressed at Noudaism" rather than "question".
Where did you say "at least for me" in your first reply to my post? I certainly can't find it. By stating "Then you thought wrong" in response, you imply that you are either Noudaism or you have some sort of insider knowledge regarding his thoughts, both of which are untrue. What gives you the right to call my opinion wrong?
And what do you mean by "properly interpret"? You mean a matter of opinion (at least until Noudaism rebuts my post) can somehow be right or wrong?
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Easy to exploit. "Hey mate please mark as gift and I gave you another game free".
Answer is no!
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Bundlestars give individual serial numbers for each game, they do not apply to this topic, read the original post, I was talking about humble bundle, or bundles that ARE PACKAGED, see??
"OK, here's the thing.
I'm ok with the idea of getting games bundles down to 20% on givers account, but... Why are the humble bundle games still on the list?? I mean, humble bundle switched to packages, meaning that you can't redeem only one of your bought games, the serial number redeems all at once. So basically, if I buy the weekly sale, I can't use only the painkiller key, and giveaway the rest of the games.
So... why are those games still on the 20% list??"
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because you can buy it really cheap thats the whole point of the bundle list prevent gaining cv from price 'exploits' even if they come as package they come from a sale that cost $1 and since it may be 'impossible' (i havent used the steam api so i cant objectively say the difficulty it would made to check the origin of a game) check the origin of the game without human intervention or a 'overprocessing' in the server side
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You don't need to check "the origin" of the game, you need to check the user's last added games. If it's only one, the key is a retail, otherwise, is a packaged bundle. The main point, is not to include the games that are packaged in the bundle list, only the ones where the bundle gives individual keys for each game.
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Because I can just give away of that key, claiming it to be a GA for just one game it contains (which is legit), but by removing it from bundled list I would get full CV for that.
Also, with your php code stuff you are talking about, to avoid abusing the "here, mark as gift instead of key, I will give you another one game for it" you ask for a resync. Meaning in the time between the syncs you would also not be allowed to add other games to your library (as it would be detected as another game added). See where that is going? Considering I went from about 10 games, to nearly 500 in a year time, that is on average more than 1 game added each day, on a weekly basis (the current time in between syncs on SG at the moment) that would be over 7 games.
So yeah, to sum my comment up, I think that would be making things overcomplicated, just because some people value CV too much IMHO.
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With a little time and thought it would be very possible. Use some trustworthy Steamrep middlemen or willing SG staff to verify the gift trade. Just saying, there are a lot of possibilities. Of course someone will always seek to exploit. Gameminer figured it out....
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It's not problem of skills, more like problem of people taking care about it working flawlessly. Support already if overloaded with questions and they need few days to get to stuff. Imagine all those new reports about "he sent key, not gift" reports.
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The thing is, if you're giving away the entire bundle key, it's no longer very exploitable, especially not for cheaper games. $1 for a non-BTA key means that for games costing, say, $10, you're only getting 90% off, which usually wouldn't get something on the bundle list as a sale. And for BTA games, it's even worse -- at $6 (that is, $5 more than the $1 key, which you could give away separately), even a game with a CV of $50 is only 90% off. The grouped keys mean HiBs are no longer a very good way of exploiting anyway. (Which is probably why they did it.)
Of course, some games would still be exploitable at the $1 tier (a game retailing $30 that appears in the $1 tier is 97% off, which is bundle-worthy.) But not much is going to be exploitable at the $6 tier.
Since people get the non-BTA keys as "extras" when they only intend to buy the BTA games, though (and since it could still cross the 96% threshold for very expensive games in the 1$ tier), I would suggest bundle-listing the $1 tier, but not bundle-listing the more expensive $6 tier, which people only get by paying an extra $5 for it. Almost no game is going to be exploitable at a $5 price.
Possibly whoever makes the bundle list could decide not to bundle-list particularly cheap non-BTA games -- obviously if a game only costs $1-$5 normally, it's silly to put it on the bundle list if it's in a grouped key for one dollar, since that's no better than a particularly steep sale. But that would require some work and research; a simple rule of "don't bundle-list HiB BTA games anymore, since the HiB BTA games are no longer particularly exploitable" wouldn't require any additional work.
Eg. Wargame: European Escalation, in the current HiB weekly, costs $20 normally; if you're buying the bundle for it and then giving away the grouped key, you're basically doing no better than a typical 75% off sale. The Testament of Sherlock Holmes is $30, around an 85% off sale -- both of these sorts of sales are common on steam, so they're not likely to encourage people to exploit them. There's no need to bundle-list either of those games.
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Yeah, right, I DARE YOU TO SPLIT ONE DAMN KEY FOR A PACKAGE INTO A STAND ALONE KEY FOR EACH GAME.
Why is everyone saying over and over again.
It's just easy, a regular human being with an average IQ can understand this.
IF I GAVE AWAY A PACKAGED BUNDLE, THERE WILL BE 4, 5, or 6 GAMES ADDED TO THE WINNERS ACCOUNT
IF I GAVE AWAY A KEY TO A RETAIL STAND ALONE GAME, ONLY 1 GAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE WINNERS ACCOUNT.
Why is that so damn hard to understand? Why everyone keeps saying the same thing over and over again? Before saying what could, and what couldn't be done, please study 3 damn year of advanced object oriented coding for php, understand the capabilities of javascript, and the combination of the with the xmlhttprequest making ajax to exist on the planet, get some serious understanding of what a database is, and THEN, and just only THEN you can say that it could not be done some improvement, and actually post some really scenario because of why it could not be possibly done.
THERE ARE WAYS OF KNOWING WHAT THE WINNER RECIEVED ON HIS ACCOUNT WITHOUT THE NEED OF A HUMAN BEING ON 98% OF THE CASES!
If the winner recieves a damn bundle containing game of thrones, the creator will be given the amount of CV for a bundled game, IF NOT, THE CREATOR SHOULD RECIEVE 100%, BECAUSE HE IS NOT EXPLOITING THE BUNDLES, HE BOUGHT A DAMN RETAIL GAME!
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Seems this thread is not good for your blood pressure :P
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Hey, calm down... I was answering to Aquillion on a different subject (he says that it isn't exploitable anyways even without your idea).
I could agree with you if the "single key package" becomes the industry standard for bundle sites (i'm still pretty sure people would figure a way to exploit that). Until then, as long as it is exclusive to a few HiB weekly sales, it isn't worth the hassle.
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Steam is trying to progressively turn every bundle into a package. Why? Because steam don't want people to act like "I want this game, and you want that one, and he wants that other one, let's put 2 bucks each and evryone get their own game". That's why they started to make packages with the most bought bundle.
But for now on, the humble bundle can enter to another category, and not be on the same bag as the other bundles.
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Yeah, for someone who studied 3 damn years of advanced object oriented coding for php, you don't seem to know much about the internet. ;)
As already said kinda, arguing with random other internet users, and taking it very seriously, is not very good for your blood pressure.
Also, technical know-how seems to make you forget simple logic. Why would I have to know advanced object oriented programming if simple logic is sufficient for something?
Just like you cannot use any kind of motor without an energy source, you don't need to be an advanced engineer to be able to know that.
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There, have it, this a damn key just bought from humble bundle (one lucky winner I guess)
TRY TO DIVIDE IT INTO INDIVIDUAL KEYS FOR EACH OF THESE GAMES. Here you go.
Cities XL Platinum, Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition, Divinity II: Developer's Cut, R.A.W. Realms of Ancient War, Game of Thrones, and Confrontation
I2L4E-72B90-L8ZLN
Please note: There are some additional instructions for Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition, please click here for instructions.
Also, when the key get's activated, and get a duped report, let me know what steam says about the "duped". Let's see if steam recognizes it as a packaged bundle, or not.
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You can code everything with enough time, but the effort involved is the problem. I'm sure CG will let you re-write the code completely for free, out of your own time.
That is of course if you care enough.
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This WILL NOT work. Reasons:
If the server load and bandwidth are already taxed. This is just adding to it, I saw where you claimed it wouldn't use any bandwidth and would hardly add any stress to the server because its a small amount of code but it would be added to every give-away and it must use some bandwidth to check with the steam DB. (I don't know if it is true that the server is already struggling though, just seen people claim it so this point may not be valid).
It would add to support/staff's workload. Yes it would, who is going to update this list to see which bundles are packaged and which games in the package are showing up through the steam API (if they don't do this the system is worthless as it may not flag a gift as a bundle, even though it is, as not all the games in the bundle show up in the receivers account show up thanks to this.
Here is the main reason it won't work; You have attempted to address the issue of people getting all the other games in the bundle after winning a single key before syncing by claiming it is unlikely. Leaving aside the fact that no matter how unlikely it is people will claim that it is what happened, and also ignoring the people who already own all the other games, WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO GET THE ACTUAL BUNDLE after winning one of the games, and then sync their account. They might have one a game as a key then won the key for the actual bundle, decided to buy it, or have it given to them by a friend within a week and then the giver of the original key would look like they sent the bundle key as well. Other minor issues would include those who win and mark as received but never return to SG and sync their profile so it can never be told whether it was a bundle keyn(alright this one is unlikely).
TLDR: What if someone is given a single key , then obtains a key for the humble bundle, without syncing in-between.
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Answer:
Because people are constantly giving away multi-game bundle keys listed under just one of the titles (and mention "bonus games" in the comments) in an attempt to exploit more than just $1 CV from it.
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OK, here's the thing.
I'm ok with the idea of getting games bundles down to 20% on givers account, but... Why are the humble bundle games still on the list?? I mean, humble bundle switched to packages, meaning that you can't redeem only one of your bought games, the serial number redeems all at once. So basically, if I buy the weekly sale, I can't use only the painkiller key, and giveaway the rest of the games.
So... why are those games still on the 20% list??
Edit:
I'm editing this by request. Here are some pointers for this matter.
1) You can control if users recieved a packaged bundle, or a standalone key.
2) There is no need for humans to check it.
3) If code is made properly, several improvements can be done on the "bundle list", giving everyone what they should recieve according to their contributions.
4) If someone wants to say "it can't be done", please provide serious coding skills proof, and explanation of why that code is not possible.
5) Packaged bundled games can have a little tiny checkbox for the creator to mark it as a packaged bundle gift, or a retail game. (If the creator is honest, and mark it as a bundle, then give him the 20%, otherwise, it will pass trough process, to check that it is a retail key, if it is in deed a retail key, creator recieve 100%. If it's not reatil, but the creator claimed it, the creator can be penalized recieving only 5%, encouraging creators to be honest about what they are givin)
6) It absolutely will not add load to the servers at all, this code it's only executed under certain ammount of requirements, it's not executed on every single giveaway
7) Resync will not overload server's bandwith, the sync recieves an XMLHttpRequest with JSON data embedded in it, we're talking about the samme ammount of data, as this image right up here
8) The systems reconizes the gift as a bundle, when you have every, and absolute every game in the package, if you have half of them, it will no tag the GA as a packaged bundled.
List subject to changes according to responses
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