Opinions?
That's what capitalistic propaganda says. And I don't think they mention billions who were happy to have a guaranteed job, shelter, education and health care.
Also, doesn't your family espouse this? Or do you leave your children hungry and bare because they don't bring income to the family?
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I certainly don't demand 'my' share of the money they earn, or tell them that they don't 'need' what they spend it on.
Also, holodomor, great leap forward, the stories of my parents growing up in communist Poland, and my own experiences visiting Cuba are all 'capitalist propaganda'.
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yes the cubans are poor because nobody could trade with them, and yet they still find it in their budget to not only give cubans all the medical treatment they need, but even americans who come asking, despite america being the cause of their misery.
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Ah yes, trying to muddy the waters by implying that the Second Polish Republic's annexation/occupation of ZUNR occurred at the same time as the holodomor (which, btw, I couldn't find any records about famine in Polish held territory at the time) somehow debunks that holodomor was directly attributable to Stalin's forced collectivization programs. Programs which also caused famines all over the USSR. And similar programs caused similar disasters in China during GLF.
And currently only the US has imposed embargos on Cuba. Europe, South America, China, even Canada all maintain trade with Cuba. Not that it helps much since for the longest time Cubans couldn't own the farms they worked, run any business not under the auspice of the state, or even earn the currency the tourists were spending. I've looked into the eyes of Cubans. There was no joy or hope in them. Take five steps off the approved paths in Havana and you will see the real Cuba: a crumbling ruin of what used to be the jewel of the Caribbean.
Also, of course Americans would go to Cuba for healthcare. Private system my ass. Obamacare is a fascistic joke. "Hurr hurr we need health insurance to be more affordable, so let's force everyone by law to buy insurance. That artificially inflated demand won't raise prices, no way." As for nationalized healthcare, I'm Canadian. I was almost killed by appendicitis because the hospital was stuffed with drunk hoodlums holding up the lines. That's what nationalized health services are: endless waiting lines, sometimes stretching for years and years. That Cuban healthcare is better than American is a sign that of the American system’s failure, not of the Cuban’s success.
Also, "guaranteed" healthcare, jobs, shelter, education. Tell me, what pays for all that? I swear next you’ll ask me who will build the roads or something. I mean, take your logic to its conclusions. Isn’t food more important than any of those, really? Shouldn’t agriculture and food production be nationalized then in order to guarantee food for all?
Oh wait… entrepreneurship, investments, trade and division of labour (i.e. capitalism) has, over the past several centuries, built a system where before nine out of every 10 men had to farm to feed a population of a few million, now a couple percent can effectively feed hundreds of millions so well that obesity Is a more prevalent health concern than hunger.
Have you actually seen the standards of ‘education’ these days? It’s atrocious. Children are not taught how to think but how to behave. Not taught about what is but what’s considered correct. Taught to fear failure rather than expand horizons. Locked in cages for 30 hours a week for 12 years at minimum, and what do they get out of their dose of social engineering? Debt, psychosis, and a job market that can’t afford them. The economy is still so far in the shifter that the current generations are the first in centuries expected to earn less than their parents.
As for shelter and jobs… housing is inordinately expensive because of artificially low interest rates, quantitative easing, and a host of other government interventions inflating the costs of putting a roof over one’s head. Jobs? Much the same. Subsidized education has made degrees worthless, minimum wage laws prevent the unskilled from working at all, and taxes/regulations/bureaucracy inflate the cost of living... It’s not that there’s no work to be done. It’s that the current system is so twisted that we somehow deluded ourselves into think labour is something to be created instead of an existing potential to be rationed.
Yes, food, healthcare, shelter, and education are important. I value them, the vast majority of people value them too. But where the fuck does it say that these things need to be doled out by a central ‘public’ authority? If people want those things they will seek it out. If people want those things, others will see opportunity to provide and benefit themselves in the process. That's been how it worked for millenia.
If you had your way and everyone ‘got what they needed’ they wouldn’t have much incentive to fucking work then, would they? How do you propose that people give according to their ability? The historical answer is at gunpoint, hence my original comment. Why else would anyone seek to create value if they could not determine for themselves how that value ought to be divested, if not by force? And who would even determine what each and every individual ‘needs’? A faceless bureaucracy? The whims of strangers? You? Do I ‘need’ bread more than asparagus? Do I ‘need’ my desktop PC? Do I ‘need’ to submit myself to ‘re-education’?
There is fundamentally so such thing as ‘need’ anyway. There is nothing in the laws of universe that says you even need to exist, let alone to what degree. Do you need more food than your caveman ancestor ever had? Do you need an internet connection he never even dreamed possible? So called ‘needs’ are just wants that are highly prioritized. You want food, but you don’t need it. You want shelter, but you don’t need it.
“From each according to his ability (forced at gunpoint), to each according to his needs wants.”
This is the only fair system of economic distribution? How the hell could this be in any way meritocratic?
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Well, even if some rich guys we're born like that, there still was someone that worked really hard to give him that money, so he could die in peace that he knows the dear ones have everything they want, so...The rich guys deserve their wealths, I'm not one of them, but I don't see money as an objective...Not money are making you rich my friend...They are not.
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Question presents a false dichotomy. What if the rich got that way illigitimately, ex. extortion, fraud.
Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich to give to the poor. He reappropriated ill-gotten tax funds and returned property to victims. i.e. he stole from theives to give to the robbed.
As for the real underlying question, that of whether justice or social justice (aka 'equality') is more important, that socjust advocates have to append a prefix to a laudable ideal should be telling. Fuck 'equality'. Progress is made by making humanity greater, not in making humanity equal.
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I don't know about the rest of the world, but unfortunately here in my country, it's mostly those people who work hard 16 hours a day who are poor, while the people who only exploit our corrupted system are getting rich :/ Excuse me if I have a hard time relating to the "rich worked hard" option.
But as far as the thread title goes: stealing is a big no-no, giving to the poor is a "yes-yes" :D
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I don't like the idea of raising taxes on the rich et cetera when some of them went from rags to riches to get there. It gets pretty rare tho and most kids are born into wealth that they didn't work for and some of the 1%ers are gainibg more and more money with unreasonable methods, look at FIFA for example.
But since you can't control who earned his money rightfully and who didn't I would say yes, steal it all!
Wrote on my phone, keep the typos
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Logical reasons why your poll is not accurate:
A common misconception of people is that just because people are poor, they deserve money, and just because people are rich, they don't deserve their money. It's a very wrong assumption in my opinion.
In my opinion, people should to be rewarded according to their effort. Low effort = low reward, big effort = big reward. That's how the world should work, but not how the world works. In reality, financial status balance works through a mix of effort, wits, opportunity, and chance.
Therefore:
Governments shouldn't raise taxes for rich people, and lower taxes for poor people. They should always be the same for everyone, and social investments always focused in giving the poor better opportunity -> the paradox here is that it is economically impossible for no one to be poor. Unless we drop capitalism, which is not happening.
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Depends on the person in question. Not every rich person inherited huge amounts of wealth and lives to squander it all to have a lavish lifestyle. Just like not every poor person deserves to get money handed to them just because they are poor. Yes, I feel some people don't really deserve the money they have but also some poor people don't deserve any kind of help handed to them. There are poor people who would rather sit around hopping for people to give them something than work and earn money the hard way. I do hope the difference between the rich and the poor was not so great. I believe the 75 richest people in the world hold 50% of the worlds wealth or something like that. It's late night so my brain is not fully functional, so I will leave it here.
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our monetary system is specifically built so the rich can steal from the poor, more specifically, people with money invested in banks.
we live in a world where banks are allowed to loan out fictional money, charge interest on fictional money, and then take away your actual stuff if you dont pay back the fictional loan they gave you with real money. (or well, simplified anyway, fractional reserve banking is a bit more complicated)
so yeah, if you steal from anyone who owns or partially owns a bank, and the money ends up with someone who does not profit from banking, then i wouldnt even call it stealing.
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My name is Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question.
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
"No," says the man in Washington, "it belongs to the poor." "No," says the man in the Vatican, "it belongs to God." "No," says the man in Moscow, "it belongs to everyone."
I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible.
I chose... Rapture.
A city where the artist would not fear the censor; where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality; where the great would not be constrained by the small!
And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
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Yes, I'm generally in favour of a welfare state. Even in highly capitalistic societies the richer one is, the more tax they pay (in general). This money helps the poor in some ways, be that through investment in infrastructure, public schools or medicine or whatever.
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