Just occurred to me: why report (when reporting should be kept for real issues backed by a proof), when a comment can show doubt and warn other people (if they care)? Why is it that the comments are a medium of suspension, and that the mod prefer a flood of unjustified reports?
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I just want to know why all of a sudden we have gotton a sudden surge of fake giveaways, i mean its almost as if the entire call of duty fanbase came here to troll.
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Hah, currently there are 2 stereotypical "new account" + "game I want" + "3 copies" on the first page. One of the games is very commonly done this with. Both have call outs written after this post was put up, and this post shows up currently in the "Recent threads" on the homepage as well. There are even links to to this thread inside the GA, but people don't care I guess.
Personally though, I don't think it matter much as the OP's never seem to come back and read the GA comments section anyway.
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Assholes. Assholes everywhere lol. I hate people who make big scenes like that because regardless of whether or not the giveaway is fake they have tarnished the name of the steamgifts community.
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Ok understand. But earlier I don't saw call out in FAQ that (mayby I miss it, or don't understand what is that). There Should be info at creating 1 giveaway, that you must buy and give that game (so should be muchh less fake gv, from people, who don't understand how site work). Also good option will be, if smb give at 1 giveaway very valuable game smth similar.
Suspicious: themselves have low amount/real valuable games, don't have that game, give very valuable game at first giveaway.
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its there, you just missed it.
"Do not call out submitters in giveaways. Please click the report button or submit a ticket, do not comment on the giveaway claiming the giveaway to be fake."
suspicious...[assumptions make an ass...well you know how it goes
+
+
+
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so lets look at it logically now>
"Why are you even suspending fake callers in the first place (what harm are they even doing)? "
best I can figure: it does no measurable good and while sure generally no harm either it does potentially harm the community's image in the eyes of some generous noob, who you just spat on and told wasn't welcome here
good it does-
you didn't enter anyway right? so none of your points are even at risk, the creator in that case almost never checks back and reads your comments so is hardly going to realize the error of their ways, most of the entrants don't read them either(and for those who do: if it was so obvious they could come to their own conclusion easily enough without aid) ect. and the points are free. and they are credited back to all entrants when the giveaway is deleted regardless. so you save some a very small number of people a mild inconvenience i guess
harm it does: if you're wrong maybe basically nothing still happens(the creator is somewhat unlikely to even see your accusation, and most people aren't so thin skinned to take much offense), but lets say maybe they do read it and maybe they do care, get a negative impression of the community( suspicious and apparently more willing to believe the noob is both an idiot and trying to rip them off somehow(make them temporally waste 60 free points I guess? points they get returned when its revealed for fake) than to risk those 60 on what is at best an almost sure loss anyway even when real and believe he is actually giving away stuff(cause its not like there aren't people here who've given thousands here, and even if there are they don't start out as noob gifters they pop fully formed with $31 already sent and confirmed). so they invasivly rifle through his steam account and post multiple questions about its legitimacy and the gifter's integrity intentions and iq) and so maybe you chase away a new gifter that was giving quality enough games for you to worry. (nobody calls out "bundle trash"(a term I dispute anyway(somebody obviously wants them) but thats irrelevant here) for being fake afterall)
tldr recap/conclusion: Mostly basically nothing happens, so mostly its a waste of time and thats best case. it contains no worthwhile winning outcome and does contain a loosing one. so why play that game, given that why would you even bother to call something fake? if you win and guess right nothing happens if you lose we all lose. just quietly report and move on instead of barking in the comments(although I'm first to admit barking is fun). less pointless typing less risk of carpaltunnel. less cartilage blown on warning people > more cartilage to waste on cat pictures, pointless arguing and games.
edit- derp, calling out, so i broke my links.
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Just an idea to get around the language barrier on the create giveaway page... how about a pictorial representation of a giveaway arranged like so:
[You] [Gift]-----> [Winner]
The gift could be animated to move along the arrow towards the winner repeatedly. Surely I'm not the first to think of this?
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you gift--->winner
if you saw that on a russian site would you read it as an attempt to say "you+gift, a winner is you, select what you want from the dropdown"? :PP
and then the animation showing that the gift is moving to the winner. the you is just a label to show who the winner is. you: [gift]--> [winner]
people who want to believe this site generates keys pulled from cg's ass and you get to pick whatever you want from the dropdown provided you take no more than 3 at once(with you setting the delay for delivery for some odd reason) will find a way to misunderstand anything you could do to clarify
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Thank you for your constructive criticism... At least, I assume that's what it is from your tone, it's so hard to tell without the pictures. :P
I'll just go back to sitting quietly and looking forward to SGv2. :)
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How about restricting new users to create a giveaway, until they have done for example 100 entries? Most of the people who create misleading giveaways are the ones who create a giveaway by their first visit. Also, new user tutorial would be useful.
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"How about restricting new users..."
Any idea that ever starts with those words is going to be ignored.
A better explanation of the site may be part of SG2.
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... I'm sorry, what? Either you misunderstood what I said or you think that asking older users to actually follow site rules is asking too much of them?
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That rule wouldn't even have to be there if you had read suggestions that start with "restricting new users..". First explain your words before i can even try understanding them.
The fake giveaways issue can be fixed with some work done, but if you prefer not to act, it's your own choice. It is obviously much easier to write a line of text for us to obey.
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You're right, it is much easier for that line of text to be there. And since the entire site is being rewritten right now, I think "easier" can be dealt with. There is no need to restrict new users, that'd just scare new gifters away from the site.
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Okay, here's a simple explanation. Every user on this site is equal, has always been equal and always will be equal. We're not going to start punishing users just for being new, we never, ever will. We're not going to start punishing new users just because the old ones can't take a hint.
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I understand everyone being equal. And if every user has to make 100 entries before being able to make a giveaway, that IS equal because everyone have to do that. It is just an example though.
I don't really care how you will deal with the issue as long as it will be successful. It's not a horrible one, but still is annoying.
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Yeah, every user will be equal, except for the 500,000 already here. Say the site had started with that system. How the hell would it get off the ground? You're prioritising older users again at the expense of new ones. Even if we did your plan, you really think it'd stop fake giveaways? People believe SG has a key generator and delivers keys to the winner. You say you don't care how we deal with the issue, that's good, because our current system of trusting that people are generous and know what the site is works. Is it perfect? No. Nothing would be unless we went a PlayBlink route (no. No. Never. No). But it works well enough. People make gifts, people win games, people get suspended for calling out and either don't do it again, or they don't learn and end up permanently suspended. Whatever happens, the community is the better for it.
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Because I couldn't understand what on earth you were gibbering about for this one, so I wasn't sure if ಠ_ಠ was going to convey enough of my feelings about the amount of bandwidth you've wasted by posting in this thread.
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It feels wrong that so many people are suspended and support time is wasted on what can be prevented by one sentence in giveaway description.
Write "Hi, I'll send the code by mail" and there will be no calling out. Write "Hi, please invite me in Steam and give the gift" and administration will delete your giveaway before I could say "fake". Write nothing and you invited suspicion from vigilant users, but you can still communicate and able to defend yourself easily - why are you not doing this?
This said, I respect the rules of community and abide by them, even if disagree with them.
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I don't agree. I'll start thinking you are a scammer and an exploiter(*), and publicly state you are, just based on your username, or profile pic, or any clue that I see fit.
But it's fine that I do this, since you're able to defend yourself, right ?
Suspicion of people not understanding how the site works... okay. Publicly stating it ? Nah, it stinks, opens a lot of doors. Same goes for people who create fake "I never win" threads and hide giveaways in them... A lot of people go crazy on them while they - the people attacking - just failed to notice the hidden purpose of such threads.
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Sure, you can do it. And I can ask you to stop, because I'm really a nice guy and not a scammer and report abuse to support if you persist. Isn't it more rational for support to answer my report instead of monitoring my activity and preemptively suspending anyone who accuses me of something? I don't think such baseless accusations happens often on Steamgifts. So far all I met were nice and friendly.
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I dont get your reasoning at all.
Warning others doesnt hurt anyone. The GA creator wont read the commetns anyway. Why would he?
And if the giveaway is valid, his "value" will rise and next time people will believe him.
The only reason for your behaviour that comes to mind (i dont say thats the actual reason, just that it sounds reasonable in my opinion) is that it would be bad for steamgifts.com if people realize that most AAA game giveaways are fake.
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So you have to have value before people can believe that maybe others can just want to be generous? You're more cynical than I am and that attitude says quite a bit about your own generousity if someone can't imagine others being generous. Why should new users be greeted with suspicious and contempt? What sort of site community are we building here? This community is built on mutual trust and generosity. If people claimed every gift as fake the moment the site started, it would have never gotten off the ground. This rule exists (and has done for years now) to stop fools from smashing that foundation just so they can pump up their ego about how they saved other people's fake magical internet money.
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I can imagine being generous. I gifted a few games myself. More than i won...
But I think MOST (not all) AAA giveaways are fake and value is a good (but not perfect) indicator for that.
Why u think someone would claim all giveaways as fake is beyond me. And as i menmtioned before, people dont read the comments of their games anyway.
What you are doing is punishing the guys that care about site enough to comment on fakes. The trolls who create the fake GA dont give a shit about being banned.
You completely ignored my second point btw...
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Well, I DO read comments. If i had found a lot of 'it's fake', comments from gooddoers like you, on my first giveaway, i would leave this site at once. I value this community, therefore i fully support no calling rule. Throwing serious accusations without proof should be met with full force of banhammer. If you really care about community, you should report suspicious giveaway/user, and let the staff serve them suspension if they deserve it.
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and why would u leave instead of proofiong people wrong?
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Because some people don't care about proving others wrong?
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Why should I in the first place? I don't want to have anything to do with people/community that starts interaction with insulting me. That simple.
Think of this: if you accuse/slander someone in RL, he can go to court and it is you that have to prove your accusations or face the consequences. That is how a free, civilized society/community can function and I'm glad to see that it's enforced here.
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"Why u think someone would claim all giveaways as fake is beyond me."
Because that's what actually happens? Literally every single giveaway on this site has at least one report on it. People are idiots or trolls (same thing, really).
"people dont read the comments of their games anyway"
Quite a lot do, so, yeah, there's that.
"What you are doing is punishing the guys that care about site enough to comment on fakes."
But they don't care enough about the site to follow the site rules and actually report them? Good to know.
"The trolls who create the fake GA dont give a shit about being banned."
No, they don't, but they get dealt with whatever happens. Why punish legitimate new gifters because of trolls? There is not a single good answer to this you can say. Do you honestly think that in two and a half years of this site running, you have said anything new? It's been done to death and it's crazy talk.
"You completely ignored my second point btw..."
Probably because I found it so utterly pointless it didn't even need to be mentioned. Everyone knows some giveaways are fake. Big woohoo there. However, if I remember our stats page right, not recieved giveaways (multiple reasons, not just fakes) are less than 1% of our total giveaways made. That is a very acceptable rate to me. If you can't handle 1 user in 100 not understanding what's going on, then you are that 1 user in 100.
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I have read all of the comments on all of my giveaways. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. If I would have seen comments calling me out as a fake I would have never made more giveaways.
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I've gotten a huge laugh out of reading some of the comments on this thread. Does it really matter WHY the rule exists? The creators of the website have the right to create whatever rules they want and enforce them however they like. Whether or not you like the rule has no bearing; you can either follow it or get suspended. What's not to get?
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I can't believe that this ONCE AGAIN is even a conversation. When you join the site you are agreeing to follow the rules of the site or repercussions against you may result. How hard is that to understand? If you don't like it go somewhere else with your bitching.
People who complain about the rules here are probably the same type who would move to Antarctica and complain about how cold it is.
No one forced anyone to join this site and the rules are clearly stated. It's your choice whether or not you want to read and follow them but if you choose not to it doesn't extend your rights to allow for bitching about it.
Quit calling out and move on. A simple request - one that didn't require 166 replies.
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As many times as this issue has been rehashed there should be very little need to question the "no calling out" rule. A simple search on the forum and reading the F.A.Q. should answer any questions about it that you have. No one has asked anything new here. It's the same shit all over again.
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then show me where a sandpit section like gameminer has was discussed before please! I really doubt that ever happened with the attitude shown in here.
I've read the faq and even search for various terms related to this, but nothing appeared.
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I propose a permanent ban for those that call out on listings that end up being real.
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I propose a life-long regime of enthusiastic soapdowns from nubile and insanely attractive young women/men [delete as applicable, or not at all, if preferred] for genuine gifters who are mistakenly accused of fakery.
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God damn, I cannot believe how absolutely relevant the section about pseudo-calling out it right now after the giveaway I just saw. You people are lucky we didn't suspend all of you.
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I'll close this thread on the day I don't need to suspend people for calling out.
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Thank you for BUYING this comment with YOUR hard earned CASH, to share with the community. I see this comment is on your wishlist. Thank you for your generosity, and for putting the community first...
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I can't begin to tell you how much those bug the crap out of me, but the one that made me bump this was even worse.
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You were at least upfront about it all. I respect (for lack of a better word) people who break the rules outright more than I do the ones who constantly push to find that grey area where the mods can't ban them without causing more chaos than we're fixing.
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I'm pretty sure that I know which giveaway that you are referring to jade and I must commend your restraint for not banning the whole lot. I on the other hand would probably be one of the most hated mods on this site for I would have banned most all of them.
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Me too. :P
Curiosity killed the cat...
Wtf am I saying. Fuck that bullshit quote.
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Just raise a support ticket requesting permission to operate one. Beyond that, it's up to you who is on there, and why :)
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bUt jake, even it look "legit as hell" we still shoun;t do that, that is the stuff the winner of that ga do alone, since, beside him, we can't know that was real or not isn't it
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i agree with the rule, that we should not call out people. but i really don't agree how this is handled here in some cases. you say that calling out is bad, because you can never be 100% sure that a giveaway is fake, even if the guy registered 2 hours before and made 3x Cod Ghosts GA's. makes sense, really. it could be real, it really could. and in some cases it is. but on the other hand you ban people for even slight implications, that a GA might be fake. even if he doesn't mention the word fake at all. somtimes even if he really only asks a question to the creator. how can you be 100% sure that the intention was to call out? you simply can't. what i am trying to say is, that you demand us to follow a rule, because we cannot be sure about fakes, but you ban without being sure yourself what the intention of these people was. yes, in most cases it's pretty obvious. but so are fake GA's.
my suggestion would be to establish an additional layer of 'punishment'. why not give out warnings first? you could give every member one out-of-jail card. if a member calls someone out, you mark him as warned. he sees a red banner on the site (similar to the green "yay, i have won something" thingy) with a short text, that tells him he did something wrong and links him to the FAQ. if he does it again, you just do your usual thing.
i know, this would require a modification of the source code and probably the database. and you probably just won't do it. ^^ but in my opinion this would be a better way of handling these cases. people who didn't read the rules would be warned and made aware of the rules. less people would complain about unjustified bans. well, less people would get banned even. which also would mean less workload for you.
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It's not about intention, but the final effect. Implying that GA is fake is not much better than saying it straight imho.
Giving out warnings is a great idea, but only for borderline/gray area offences like slightly impying fakes or using words that have forbidden slang meaning. Maybe in future...
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the question i ask is, how can you be sure 100%, that the implication means what you understand? in many cases you can't, because it's an implication. just like you can't be 100% sure that a giveaway is a fake. and that is why i say that an insta-ban is maybe a bit harsh in some cases. and a warning could be a better way of handling things, so these people don't feel mistreated on the one hand, and are a bit more careful about calling out in the future on the other hand.
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You can't of course, and I agree that in some cases it would be good to have a warning as an action to choose from. And as far as i know, not every poster got banned for what might be interpreted as calling out.
You are active trader, imagine that 2 top pages on ST are filled with comments 'just' implying you are not honest. Would you like mods take hard or soft stance on them?
I suspect that Jade is so pissed with the pseudo calling, because these comments come from people previously banned for calling out. They only learnt how to bend the rules, so they don't get punished for misbehaviour.
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"Is "warning" people that they might lose their completely imaginary points" WoW thats really narrow-minded .... Its not about losing the points you spent, its about the huge disappointment that you finally won something after 5k+ entered giveaways and have to notice that you didnt win anything because one user was retarded and didnt read the sites rules.
All of this could be avoided by making a rule for your FIRST giveaway to exactly specify that you are buying and giving away the game, so that people could recognize real gifters and people could actually report false giveaways or ones created in a wrong format so that mods could close them .... but steamgifts doesnt implement any suggestions made and obviously doesnt want to improve itself just ban people that call out for fake giveaways that spare some people of disappointment.
but hey lets just ban all the people instead of improving and make a shitty post about it, because its easier (although its not)
actually having this as an official statement of a mod is really sad to be honest. No wonder there wont be any improvements, if the site is run by people that have to ragepost about a topic because they are pissed off.
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ITT: people saying nothing new, assuming that people speak English well enough to follow that rule, assuming people read anything, assuming we want to waste so much of our damn time on this smegging rule, assuming, assuming poor things in general.
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So, you'd rather have me report a GA that "smells fishy" even if I have no definite proof rather than just put a warning by cross-checking a few things (i.e. the GA poster has the same game in his wishlist) and letting people know and decide if they are going to trust the GA opener?
Isn't that going to multiply the reports? Are you going to close down all the reported GAs only because they seem fishy? Or are you going to keep them open since you have no real proof of fake?
It seems that you are taking a lot of responsibility on your own: if you take a harder stance you might anger new users who were rightfully trying to offer a game for the 1st time and turn them away... but if you take it too easy, SG will become a fakefest with people angered because they didn't receive something they believe they were entitled to.
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If you can see that a giveaway is fishy, so can anyone else with a modicum of intelligence, who can be bothered to check.
For those who can't be arsed, caveat entror.
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There are hundreds of giveaways, too many for everyone to check them personally, but if everyone of us checks one or two a day we'll eventually cover them all (or most).
Also, CG probably wouldn't want every single user to check every GA since it produces unnecessary clicks, loading profiles and stuff (servers are already strained)...
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Nobody enters hundreds of giveaways a day. Like most others, I'll enter a handful at most. It's not that big a deal to check the few ones where the gifter's name is unfamiliar.
Besides, however good your intentions might be, those users who don't have the slightest suspicion where COD giveaways are concerned are unlikely to be the type of user who notices any warning posts anyway....
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As AtomicWoodchuck said: anyone who cares, will check for themselves, and doesn't need 'warning' in comments. Those that don't care, won't read it anyway. Troll creator will not read it either. That leaves only the legit gifter who cares, and you just called him out. Now ask yourself a question: why should he stick around and actually deliver an AAA game to a bunch of ungrateful people instead of trading it away? I know, that I would't.
Not delivered giveaways are below 1% of all giveaways. That is pretty good result, and creators of such GAs are dealt with by mods on a case by case basis.
Now, if within 2 years of existence, SG didn't become fakefest, i really don't see a reason why would that change in foreseable future.
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Why? Because this is still not allowed, that's why. If you think a giveaway is fake, report it, don't say it. It doesn't do the community any good at all. Is "warning" people that they might lose their completely imaginary points really worth a suspension? I'd say no. Nobody cares if you're "right", either, as you're still very much in the wrong. Your suspension won't be stricken from the record just because we delete the giveaway. There have also been a number of the more experienced users engaging in a form of psuedo-calling out lately, pretending to be helpful, while every word screams "fake". Be aware that we have seen these and we are not amused at all. A few people have gotten suspensions for these before, most don't, we're still trying to figure out where the the line is, what constitutes it. If you truly do want to help the user understand SG, it may be best to simply friend them on Steam and do it privately. If you get suspended for a comment where you were genuinely trying to help, it's annoying and a waste of time for everyone involved to deal with it (suspending, you making a ticket, us finding and answering the ticket, removing your suspension). If you get suspended for a comment where you were implying it's fake, there's just enough leeway for alternate interpretations of your words to loophole your way out of a suspension (note: this is not to say we tolerate any form of rules laywering) and it's not as hilarious as you think to waste our time that way either.
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