first =D And seriously now. Why would they get a suspension for warning others? It's just a warning, nothing else.
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the problem is, that you can't be sure that a giveaweay is fake. user registered some hours before and made a call of duty ghosts giveaway? smells fishy? sure, probably fake. but there is a chance it isn't. and if it isn't you called him out for no reason.
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Yes, some people won't have a problem with that. But some will. In the long run, calling out a suspicious giveaway is more hurtful for the community than trying to "save" someone's imaginary points from going to waste. Just look at the comments on the giveaways - ranging from pretty tame "Is this real?" to rather dickish "OMG FAKE!! The giveaway creator does not even have any good games on his account!"
Again, some people will only be amused by such display of distrust, but at the same time others will feel genuinely hurt by this. This is a community where people give games away for free. I feel that we must support their intentions and not ruin them with comments like that, especially since you do not lose anything even if you enter a giveaway that turns out to be "fake" afterwards.
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a fake does no lasting harm. if caught before it ends points are refunded, if not points are free and regenerate easily anyway. the offender is corrected and/or punished as appropriate. and making accusations does little to help the mods resolve it. reporting is what actually brings it to their attention. as for why not do both the cons outweigh the pros(although both are fairly weak)
if you're right meh few read the comments and will even hear your warning and only a subset of them would actually heed it, and without your warning for those who fall for it that you could have "saved" the damage would be reversed anyway, the points refunded. it is meerly somewhat vexing or mildly inconvenient/disappointing.
if you're wrong you could make the community look like a bunch of suspicious combative bastards and with the weight first impressions often have potentially scare away somebody worth having. Would you hang around if the first people you tried to be nice to called you a liar and an idiot and then mildly cyberstalked you by checking up on steam attempting to "prove" their accusations? I for one might hesitate to give them anything else at least. probably leech more than gift less than I might have for ahwile.
although of course neither outcome is likely. your warning will have little effect, and the gifter rarely reacts that strongly. on the balance absolutely nothing happens either way so why bother, but if something did have an effect its possible drawbacks outweigh possible benefit
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"if caught before it ends points are refunded"
Actually, points are refunded any time a giveaway is deleted. If I deleted your Portal 2 giveaway from last month, 827 people would find themselves with 20P more.
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If they mention it's for the wrong game or have rules for a public, I've always considered that one fine to tell people what they did wrong. It's when users try (and fail miserably often) at roleplaying Sherlock, that's the issue.
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i told people like 1000 times already that what they are doing is wrong in such cases. last time just 2-3 hours ago. i never got suspended for this. this is something completely different. when i do this, it is based on facts (e.g. the guy saying himself that he wants to give away another game instead), not suspicions.
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Yeah, well, support's also learned the lesson that people can't comprehend why they were suspended for anything, no matter what they did. Thank you for joining the esteemed community of those users. You weren't helping the SG community at all. Reporting helps. Witchhunts do not.
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its ok im glad to be part of that group of users, maybe i dont help anyone maybe i do, atleast i tried, and well since warning people from very posibles fakes GA is not on the rules more people are going to do it, but then its ok, atleast im not going to be one of those guys =)
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"Do not call out submitters in giveaways. Please click the report button or submit a ticket, do not comment on the giveaway claiming the giveaway to be fake."
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Ummm.. Why would you comment that after you're the one being put in his place?
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But "Its a rakeee!" and ppl use them in witchunts fiercely
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unfortunatly there's so much suspicion here on SG, but then again, it does happen from time to time, what i don't understand is, why don't one just not enter if they think it's a fake, rather than posting in the comment section, that you can't trust the giveaway, why not give people the benefit of the doubt, also that's some fine video choosing
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I think most of the time it's ignorance and not malcontent.
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"Be carefull what you are spending points for."
Tell me how that is not calling out. You are not the sort of person I'm talking about when I remarked about psuedo-calling out. That was calling out, plain and simple.
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"Registered 1 month ago and this is his first GA so... ITS A TRAP!!!"
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normally the devs atleast coment something about their GA, when a guy whit 0 experience just do a big GA i think that it is a trap, so there are diference between a DEV doing a massive GA when they explain a little about the game or the company to just a random guy giving the most expensive GA on the site
srry for my bad english i know that is terrible
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At that point, just don't enter the giveaway. Worst case scenario is that you miss out on some imaginary internet points that you got for free. As far as I know, if a giveaway IS closed for some reason, you get your points back. There's no reason to call out a giveaway that you may suspect of being fake out in the open, just report it. If the person IS legit then it may give them a negative view of the site and they won't give away any more games, which means you have less of a chance to win them.
tldr; Calling out negatively impacts everyone on the site.
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Correct: if a giveaway is deleted, anyone who entered gets their points back.
Uncertain: I also believe that the points that were added due to that giveaway are removed, but don't quote me on that one, it's been a long time since I studied how points behaved.
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yeah i know its like if you see tha tis fake just dont enter, but yea i tried to warn people because well its a GA of 150 point, and if it is fake the winner could feel bad (i dont find another word srry bad english lol) so i tried to warn people about this
i know that they are imaginary free points , but those imaginary free points can become videogames
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if its fake the winner could feel bad*
if its real the gifter could feel bad**
. its a wash. (slightly weighted to favor not doing it)
.
*(they may have gotten something nice for free but didn't, initial excitement turns to disappointment, this is then forgotten and they move on with their lives no worse off then before merely no better either. some free points were lost but then restored upon deletion(maybe a mild jadedness down the line if they care enough to hold onto it))
**(for being generous and nice to random strangers and getting called a bald faced liar a troll and/or an idiot for his trouble. he obviously shrugs this off (but theres a small chance he may hesitate in the future or leave the site))
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Do you know what my first giveaway was when I registered? The complete FEAR Collection, worth $50. So... no, you're wrong.
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You realise how often those packs go on sale, right?
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yeah but not like a one pack, when was the las time that 2k collection was on sale as one bundle?, also iif he buy the games one for one on different sales it would be better to do multiple GA, also when was the las time that somebody really made this GA and was marked as recived?
say waht you want but you know that this GA seems souspicious
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1 year ago, but there have been others similar to it made and given away. One user gave away something like seven Valve Complete Packs at the start of his run on this site. Every single one was legit and they kept making more and more major giveaways.
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Valve Pack is at least $150, I believe. And no, none of them had anything in the comments or description for a while.
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well valve pack isnt 2k pack price also 2k collection its something very rare, and i really soubt about the coment stuff
and i know that maybe im wrong on the assumption of the fake GA but you know that there are mutch more possibility (idk if i spelled wrong) to be a fake GA than a Real GA, thats why i put my "its a trap" on the first post so he can atleast say something back and if he doesnt read the comments so he would never feel bad for being call a fake gifter
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Okay, so where is this arbitrary limit on how much a giveaway has to be worth before you're allowed to call out? Can you give me an exact number, and reasoning for that number? No? Didn't think so. I can. Stop calling out please.
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Where are you drawing the line with the suspensions for people that may or may not be sarcastic with their "appreciation". For e.g. if seen countless people on the internet put their THANKS by default in caps and even in " " (those that don't know what sarcasm even is and just do this as they actually think this is done to make something even 'stronger' or just more noticeable).
Why are you even suspending fake callers in the first place (what harm are they even doing)? You just said it's pointless/not worth a suspension. Just don't and 'BAM!'... probably like 33% of all tickets aren't there anymore. I really don't get it at all. Nobody gains or loses anything by it (well considering that most of the time people call a fake, it actually turns out as a fake, so the users somewhat have a little benefit there). All this supensioning for it seems like a huge waste of time for the staff.
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I agree with you. In my opinion suspension for warning is unfair. I'm against this rule and if we could vote, I will vote for removing this rule.
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And many people vote for a lot of things without truly understanding why they're there. What's your point, exactly?
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My english is not perfect, but I try to explain. First of all, FeiLing is right. It is a waste of time, all this suspensions. Everybody can thinking, but always is better to know more. If someone do something wrong or suspicious I prefer to know (the sooner the better). For example if most of people thinks that giveaway is fake, I don't enter, I don't waste my points and time to check the profile myself. I know that everything is free here. But also there is nothing worse than to enjoy the winning game which actually does not exist. I see nothing wrong in informing others. We still could "take a risk" and enter a giveaway, and the creator still have a chance to add a comment that he understand the rules.
Otherwise I suggest to add a warning on first page of creating a giveaway (in red and bolded), something like that: " I declare that I already have this game and I agree to give it to giveaway winner". Maybe this will help avoiding such situations.
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"Important: All gifts should be Steam redeemable CD keys or Steam gifts only."
That's the very first thing on the creation page, below how many giveaways you can make. Believe me though, we understand about the warnings, SGv2 should have a lot more. Part of the problem has been languages. You'll notice we have a number of FAQ translations for this site, but a lot of them are very out of date compared the current FAQ (listing old rules, old staff members, missing new sections). English is not everyone's language, as I'm sure you know, but unfortunately, our current staff all primarily speak English. This makes answering tickets or making the site more usable for other languages considerably difficult. We're working on it.
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The line is generally contextual, like most things. Sometimes, just a slight alteration of words can make a difference. We're trying to narrow that down so we can be clearer about our actions and, hopefully, get more done.
And you misread. We're perfectly happy suspending people for this. The question I posed was is it worth the suspension for you? Because you will be. Is that worth it?
Why people are suspended for calling fake has been answered many, many times before. What does it bring to the community? If you're right, you screamed it on a giveaway's comments and likely didn't report it (so many don't). What does that help? The giveaway's still there. If you're wrong, you just spammed the comments of a genuine new gifter with rage and suspicion. What does that look like to a new gifter? Why would you want to give to a community that welcomes you with such vitriol? I certainly wouldn't want to.
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So it's to not discourage that 1% of creators of these GAs that actually wasn't fake. I can understand that, but isn't it just as discouraging for the winners (99% of the time) which will receive nothing, then possibly abandon the site forever and tell everywhere it's is a scam?
Or how discouraging is it for people to take away their CV retroactively after some weeks because the game they gave away was slightly over 95% discount in Russia? You know the answer from the many threads and complaints every time this is done. And you also should realize from the whole size of this discussion (every time) that this practice isn't really agreed upon by the majority of users.
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We get called a scam no matter what we do. Would you have us stop suspending anyone who's ever given away so much as a spare bundle key, out of fear they'll call us scammers? We like to assume our users have at least the reasoning skills of a ten year old and can separate a fake gift from the whole site being fake. Innocent until proven guilty is a good method, rather than vice versa.
As for the 95% bundling, where exactly have you ever seen me agree with that practice?
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Careful guys, I think this announcement might be fake, look for yourself, they registered only TWO YEARS ago.
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I posted it when I was new here, but the lag's gotten so bad lately.
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I knew it!
By the way, checked the profile Giveaways Entered: 8,029, Estimated Wins: 110.47
My Giveaways Entered: 4,275, Estimated Wins 7.94...
I don't get it. Admin luck hax?
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I belonged to a number of private giveaway groups and hanging out in the chat and being active there regularly gets me some nice private giveaways. You'll notice a lot of my wins are private or group. This explains freaks like Toaster. The lower the entrants, the higher your odds, meaning both your estimated wins and your actual wins rise far faster than if you entered mostly large public giveaways.
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Ok ok good, I was extremely confused for a bit... :P
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When I suspect a giveaway might be fishy, I usually thank the gifter for his generosity in giving a game to total strangers on the Internet. That way, if the giveaway is legit I have properly thanked the author. If it's not, it might just be enough for him to realize he didn't understand how things worked and correct his mistake.
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But if the giveaway was fake and he doesnt do anything about it you have thanked someone for making a fake giveaway so you get suspended too.
What a twist.
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I don't think you get suspended for saying thanks on a giveaway that turns out to be fake.
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Yeah, comments like that have been considered to be psuedo-calling out before. A slight change in words can completely alter what a sentence sounds like, so while to my memory you are fine, there's a few other users who do the same thing that are toeing the line and the mods end up damned if we do, damed if we don't. If we suspend, we're possibly suspending someone who was legitmately trying to thank a gifter. If we don't, we get called out on hypocrisy, "Why'd you suspend me but not this guy?" and it ends up all very annoying.
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I wouldn't want to be stepping in some gray area. I felt that was the best way to go since a new user actually being generous wouldn't be offended and someone who didn't quite understand the site could realize his mistake. If however it puts you guys in a delicate situation, I'll just refrain from commenting altogether.
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I was one of the few who were lately suspended because of that. But actually, my message back then wasn't supposed to call out the giveaway creator. The problem (at least for me) was that I wanted to express my suspicion (and thanks of course). Now, I can see how inconsiderate that was...
But moving on - are we supposed to report any giveaway that looks suspicious to us? There were quite many lately that caught my attention and I don't want to make any more mistakes like that one earlier. ;)
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Just don't bother reporting might-be-fake giveaways from newcomers - they would need something like "Thanks for buying it for me" in description to be deleted.
Support won't delete them (as that might turn out to be legit, for example few CoD from newcomers did) and their "need-help" list will be smaller.
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Almost makes me want to watch Deep Space 9. Almost. :P
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"There have also been a number of the more experienced users engaging in a form of psuedo-calling out lately, pretending to be helpful, while every word screams "fake"."
Some mods included (in the past, at least)
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Yeah, everyone's screwed up a few times. I believe I've called out giveaways a few times in my early history. What's important isn't that you've broken the rules, but how you respond to that. Sometimes a simple "Yeah, my bad, I'll keep that in mind for the future" can make all the difference. I was more properly explained the issue of this by someone, wish I remembered who, and I kept it in mind. That's why we post regular reminders about this rule's many incarnations, because it can be very confusing and explaining it again for the new and oldtimers never hurt anyone.
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It's just a wild guess, but I'm thinking most users spend more time on the giveaways than on the forums. So these regular reminders can be easily missed even by regulars.
My point, in case it wasn't too clear, is that if you may see that experienced users (and mods, specially) were engaging in such practices in a not so distant past, and may easily miss a reminder such as this thread. You read the rules at least once in your registred life, you know calling out is against the rules, but then "I saw those users (mods, specially) doing so in x way, so it must be ok!"
...Then again I could be overthinking it. And this "potential issue" will become less potential in time, anyway.
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I believe we're looking into a way to change how announcements are made in the new site. There's a lot of things that are updating, too many to list, but that's one we've been pushing for for a long time (also ways to tell a member to knock something off, or alert them of issues, without suspending them (I've had to give five minute suspensions before to alert someone of a major issue that needed their attention when I couldn't contact them any other way)).
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I'm fairly new here, and I believe I may have done this my first time today. I really feel like an ass... This thread makes perfect sense, and I know I'm guilty of bobofatt having to delete my first giveaway because I didn't know that the Batman DLC I was trying to give had been temporarily removed due to being bundled. Ergo, my giveaway was a "fake" even though in my description I posted that I wasn't sure if it was the correct one. People gave me a break, and I really want to do the same. If I did this today, I sincerely apologize. hangs head in shame
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Hey, don't worry, it's cool. Like I said, everyone makes mistakes. Believe me, I know that well. offers you a cupcake
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Hey guys.. Instead of complaining about getting suspended you could just.. You know.. Not call out lol.
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What's the big deal? Ask cg to make comments not visible to ga creators if it's their first ga.
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That sounds like a really really useless idea. Why would we want them to feel like the community is ungrateful instead?
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You are probably too 1337 to grasp the concept but there are ways to make it work without hurting anyone's precious feelings.
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That's a dreadful idea. So because older users can't control themselves, we limit the functionality of the site for the new user? In what world does that make sense?
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in a world where you are existing users gets favored, not some random new guy popping up. dreams
look at one of your competitors out there, putting every new users first few giveaways in a seperate area. noticing everyone that tries to join it, that i can easily be a fake due to the creator being new! And guess what, it's working well!
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I never say anything to suspicious giveaways or report them. Also, I don't need a warning, I can look at their profile myself and draw my own conclusions whether to use points or not. I never enter anyone's first giveaway, unless they're a dev.
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First off, we have nowhere near the number of mods needed to do that. We're constantly falling behind on regular support tickets as it is.
Second, what defines fishy? How many games the user owns? How many copies they're giving away? The dollar value? Where do you make that cutoff? $25? $30? $40? What if it's been on sale for 75% off? 66% off? 50% off?
There's no way we could feasibly investigate everything like that.
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Yeah I was going to say: "Sounds like a lot of work to me!" Lol
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Well if there are soo many fakes, it basically means the site has once again must to educate people what the "create giveaway" really means. I go to the create giveaway page, all I got is this shit below, it doesnt EXPLAIN new user what this page really do in BOLD red color word. Infact it can mean as creating giveaway to randomly let people give me something.
"Important: All gifts should be Steam redeemable CD keys or Steam gifts only. Winners will be automatically generated at random by SteamGifts to ensure all entries have an equal chance of being selected. The e-mail addresses of the winners will be viewable on the Manage Your Giveaways page, where you'll also be able to track user feedback. If you have any questions, take a second to post on the forum. Thanks. "
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The site will always have fakes. The number of them haven't increased. The number of them will likely never decrease because people don't read anything, even in big red warnings. There's only so much you can do to curb it. People still believe we have a key generator to give out gifts. Nothing we say will stop people thinking that.
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it is still better than not telling the new user what this site is all about. Fix the create giveaway page first, at least you can filter out some of user who actually bother read short message. That page doesnt tell new user what "create giveaway" is really about. new user need to dig into forum->FAQ->FAQ/Rules and Guidelines-> read tdlr FAQ. <-- you expect new user to read wall of text FAQ that is hiding a few clicks away from main page?
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The FAW is at the bottom of every single page of the site. The notice currently there already says that gifts have to be your own if you have any reading comprehension whatsoever. If you don't, nothing we say would help you.
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I disagree with that position. I have been in a situation where people said that my giveaway is fake. It was my 1st giveaway and it was 2 copies of anno2070 when it had just came out.
Since I did not know at that time that my inv was privite, people started to suspect that my giveaway is fake. I replied to the first comment and people saw, that I am responding, not a random silent guy and it went fine. I don't see a need in suspending these people, because they usually have reasonable doubts.
Even if I have not said anything, I don't see anything bad when people act careful to unknown or unproven members of the community. Look around, see how this site works, what does the community demand from each other and slowly try to become a part of it. No need in overprotecting newbies like that.
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This is my point of view too. I don't understand how the moderators just blindly follow the rules, when there might be room for improvement. Sure I've seen a lot of false accusations, but I've also experienced how civilized it becomes when the GA creator actually comments or just writes a simple description.
And well, maybe we should start a movement against people who falsely say "thank you". Would be totally useless, but maybe it'd show the point that they are only comments and that they harm nobody, be it thank-yous or call-outs.
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Yeah, I suppose that newbie should be encourage to communicate, tell something to people who are interested if this person making a real giveaway. Because I've never seen a person, who would continue behaiving aggressively after GA creator has responded.
New members are supposed to introduce themselves, at least by making some sort of descriptions. I think of steamgifts as a community and not some place, where you can give and win games. I know it sounds strange, because scream about fake giveaways do not seem as much of communication, but is encourage creator to answer and he sort a feels, that there is a community that watches everything, active, who care if you know what to do as a newbie.
Ofc, it is just my opinion and if site is getting huge and new people feel that this comments are offensive, well, you sadly need to adjust. I just want to know how many GA creators have complained about such comments.
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Plenty of them, both new and old, both the actual gifter and other commenters, sometimes people who haven't gifted at all. "Growing a thicker skin" as your comment implies is the only way to deal with it is not the issue here.
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Just because you're fine with it doesn't mean it was okay for them to call it out a fake. The fact that you even had it in your inventory but they couldn't see it proves that people are often wrong, which is why the practice of calling out is ridiculous. People's Sherlocking skills are dreadful. Just because you didn't care doesn't mean others don't. Some people don't care if someone calls them a faggot, does that mean we should stop suspending for the people who do that? No.
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I see your point, but is it ok to ask creator of the giveaway does he have a copy of the game and is he sure how this website works, without implying that this giveaway is fake?
Or do you think that comments is not the best place for doing this?
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Why? Because this is still not allowed, that's why. If you think a giveaway is fake, report it, don't say it. It doesn't do the community any good at all. Is "warning" people that they might lose their completely imaginary points really worth a suspension? I'd say no. Nobody cares if you're "right", either, as you're still very much in the wrong. Your suspension won't be stricken from the record just because we delete the giveaway. There have also been a number of the more experienced users engaging in a form of psuedo-calling out lately, pretending to be helpful, while every word screams "fake". Be aware that we have seen these and we are not amused at all. A few people have gotten suspensions for these before, most don't, we're still trying to figure out where the the line is, what constitutes it. If you truly do want to help the user understand SG, it may be best to simply friend them on Steam and do it privately. If you get suspended for a comment where you were genuinely trying to help, it's annoying and a waste of time for everyone involved to deal with it (suspending, you making a ticket, us finding and answering the ticket, removing your suspension). If you get suspended for a comment where you were implying it's fake, there's just enough leeway for alternate interpretations of your words to loophole your way out of a suspension (note: this is not to say we tolerate any form of rules laywering) and it's not as hilarious as you think to waste our time that way either.
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