Thanks for feedback so far. One major question is still unanswered and it is:
What is your view on this? Would cherry be removed from the group after any win regardless of its source?
Only group wins count
Any win counts
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Maybe those who win outside of the group are suggested to leave of their own accord (ie, state it as one of the rules/faqs), but once you win a group giveaway, you're definitely removed. Most people will follow the first rule, I think, and those who really want to 'cheat' the system will eventually be kicked out. :)
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In that case it would only be a general recommendation to follow what each one feels to be the spirit of the group and leave each cherry to make the decision themselves.
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Yes, a Google document will be provided that has current cherries and every group giveaway created and active. I think only Steam's and SteamGifts's profile names would be provided as information. Keeping track of several numbers of 30 or so users starts to get sluggish.
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I was under the assumption that the default entry criteria should be no wins at all, with the removal of cherries when they win, regardless of where they won it. After all, isn't the main purpose of the group letting unlucky people win? Can hardly be considered unlucky if they've won stuff already :P. That way more unlucky people can be catered to as well, as there's always a stream of people flowing in and out.
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Aye, I would place the unlucky ones on top of the list and people with no wins at all even higher. Still, things are not simply black and white in my opinion. Assuming that group survives some time and produces steady stream of giveaways, I think it will be likely that we will start to run out of people with zero wins and close to 2000 entries (or similar).
I have been talking about cherries, and I consider people with no wins to have higher "priority", but I would like the group also reward those that the community nominates as "good people". So thinking for the group's future in the long run, I would extent the criteria to consists also people that may have won.
For those who were wondering about being a popper and wanted only to give to people with no wins, special rules are allowed in group giveaways. So one can simply write it as requirement, if there happens to be people with wins and you want to target only those without wins.
Summary: criteria for entry is always defined quite loosely and without exact numbers as situations change and group responds dynamically. Cherry candidates will be evaluated case by case anyway.
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Sounds pretty good, not exactly what I had in mind, but good. Personally, I feel the groups job would be done once there are actually no more "unlucky" people :D Anyway, will stick around to see where this goes, maybe even try something similar in the event it falls through. Cheers!
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Group would be made merely to answer for a demand. If we somehow reach a situation where everyone is already happy, then I won't be sad as the group is closed.
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At the moment there is no group where one could apply. I will make a specific announcement if such a time will come.
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I think it defeats the purpose to allow people into the group who have already won something. And if they finally DO win something they no longer need their cherries popped by this smaller group.
Vote: Any win counts.
Edit I should have realized it was you, Tubber ;)
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Any win counts, otherwise the whole point of the group (as I see it) disappears. There is no need for moderation really, it takes like 5 seconds from the popper making a giveaway to check if the winner has won something before or not.
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I like the idea.
I entered all the giveaways you had done before, and whilst most needed to be rerolled, still enjoyed the chance to have a go.
Perhaps some way to be both a popper and cherry - or to be able to move from one to the other would be great.
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Aye, things tend to get a bit more exciting when chances rise from around 1:500 to somewhere 1:3.
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thats amazing! i would join right ASAP if the group existed...so go create it :P
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It is nice to find people who are willing to gift the joy of gaming.
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No need to be, good sir. I hope that those fists will open into a friendly handshake in the future.
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In case some of you are wondering, I will not reply to any questions presented in apply and voting only thread. Post them instead to this thread.
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Excellent idea and even better if you decide to go with "zero gifts won policy"; this way the group would actually work as a "golden kick of luck" as you described it. To keep the odds high (max 20-30 members) I suggest you go with pretty strict requirements: 0 wins, at least 1000 entries and reasonable amount of playtime in Steam (to make sure cherries actually play games instead of collecting them). You could require comment / entry ratio as someone suggested, but I don't see a reason for it (not in this group at least).
I wouldn't mind joining as a popper.
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It is easy to spot the clear ones that pretty much fit into the profile you described. Things start to get a bit less clear after them. Here are couple examples that I think will greatly divide opinions who is in and who is out.
I have made group guidelines pretty loose now for two reasons. First just to get things started and moving and second two allow it to have room to expand into any direction poppers see fit. I will in the future discuss with other poppers about topics like cherry criteria, entry application and guidelines in general and things will change accordingly.
For now, there is the escape route of using special rule "zero wins" in group giveaways but having different rules in every giveaways makes the group useless. Thus some level of consensus is required in the long run.
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You have a point there but if you have the same rules for every cherry, you minimize the QQ and time needed to accept new cherries.
DLC is not a game and you could always mention faerie + dwarfs as exceptions in the guidelines? Winning Indie games or betas (dota 2, cs go) needs more luck with hundreds of entries so I would count them as won games that prevents you joining the group (as a cherry).
Another suggestion: cherries should be allowed to make giveaways if they want to (for other cherries naturally) and after their first win they should be given the chance to stay as poppers before kicking them out.
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It would make things easier to organize, certainly. At the moment, I see two major blocks forming which I would define conservative and liberal viewpoints. Conservative would keep strict zero wins policy and liberal would be more lenient regarding the number of wins taking other aspects into account as well. Both blocks agree on that people with zero wins have higher priority.
Though I personally support the latter, I am fine with either solution. This is a topic which I would like to discuss with other poppers how they would like things to be.
Both of your suggestions (cherry-made giveaways and staying as popper) are already possible and in place.
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This was what I was about too ask considering poppers can't win anything.
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In short, yes, but it has not yet been decided how apply process will go in the future. If it is done in big chunks, like the one going on now, then you would have to wait for the next apply event.
People are free to apply for cherry as long as they are not banned the group. It is then up to the people who decide cherries will they get in or not.
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Well, considering 1 popper gives away a game very six too eight weeks, and we can only have 30 charries at max, the current number of application or 6 poppers. Means a game could be provided every week or two, and gives a 1 in 30 chance of winning and then getting replaced. It would be fairly safe too say, that the ratio right now is fairly decent and the group has yet too officially accept anyone.
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Aye, number of cherries is limited and if we don't find 30, it can be easily less. I would prefert to have certain minimum number of cherries just to have wide variaty of tastes. It could be quite hard to find a suitable game with just two cherries. This also helps poppers.
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I looked through the application thread and wow, had no idea there were so many unlucky people on this forum haha. Maybe set up a queing system? So that there are always 20-30 people in the group, but when one person wins and get kicked out someone else takes their place. Alternatively you could kick winners and not take in new cherries until everyone has won.
Negatives with the first method is that some insanely unlucky person could be in the group forever and never win. But public awareness of the group would be higher. Second method would have the issue of the last person not being able to choose what they want to try and win, which is probably against the very idea of a lottery type site like this haha.
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There should still be a nice pool with people over 1000 entries and no wins (or similar conditions). I have heard rumours that cg is planning some sort of mechanism for unlucky people but have no more knowledge about that.
Once group has started, I will discuss with other poppers how they would like the process to go. In the end, they are to source that keeps the system running.
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that seems interesting, maybe a setting for percentage of win/loss set like how you can set contributer value now? But that is pure speculation.
Oh and quick question, would a cherry be able to pop? And will there be quick poppers? As in people just wanting to join for a short time to just give out one or two games?
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Anyone in the group can create a giveaway which includes cherries.
People can freely use the group as temporary filter as you stated by joining as popper, giving what they want and dropping off if they do not want to stay. I asked poppers to apply too in the same thread to show people the likely disbalance between numbers and making the first invitation round easier for me. But in the future, I think poppers can join freely regardless how cherries are selected (chunk/single/etc.).
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I do think, we need a new wave of cherries.. So shameless bump too draw attentin back too this group!
So far, we have given out more then 150 dollars in games in two weeks. Fairly decent, but, we also have empty giveaways..So I would suggest raising the bar on cherry numbers and filling those roles if we can.
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Summary
Apply to group here.
Group has two positions: cherries and poppers. Cherries are the target of giveaways, poppers are the ones who create them. Cherries are picked on certain criteria.
Please comment and criticize this idea. Does it have serious flaws, would you change something and is there any need for this at all?
Expanding above
My previous experiences in trying to gift certain group of people had some troubles. Mainly it was people who entered even if they did not meet the requirements. I thought for a while different approaches how to solve this. I personally do not really like the group option, but it seems to be the best one that is available.
Group would have two positions. Cherries are the people I would aim to give gifts by creating giveaways. Poppers are people who would create these giveaways. Idea is to gather people who would be deemed unlucky or nice people deserving chance of winning. Cherries are selected by meeting certain criteria that are given below. One can apply multiple times.
Cherries' main purpose in group is to achieve Golden Kick of Luck which is gained by winning. Winner will then be kicked from the group to open position for the next one. I'm still uncertain would it be better to only count wins inside group or any win in the site.
Poppers are people who would like to gift people having some of the qualities met in cherries. I would place no limit to their numbers. One could use this group as temporary filter (join for a giveaway and then leave) or hang in back and gift when you feel like it. Before a wall of leecher accusations appear, I notify that I would be placing myself as popper.
Idea is to have quite loose structure with very little forced activity to prevent needless re-rolling in every giveaway themed for these people.
Cherries
Higher chance of entry by meeting mixture of following:
Lower chance of entry by meeting mixture of following:
Poppers
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