Do you think it would be time for a change?
I miss the days of true expansion packs. Like from the glorious "big box" days.
.jpg)
Comment has been collapsed.
+1
They forgot the way of gaming and keep becoming casuals! Stupid heretics!
Comment has been collapsed.
Is not only the DLCs, the quality as also getting lower each year, now you cant expect anything good from any AAA company, and now indie games are the ones who try to bring good games to the market... D:
The companies are losing the market because they forgot how to make games and they learned they can cut losses not making a complete game but little pieces of the same, but still a bad game in overal D: I miss the older times D:
Comment has been collapsed.
You have a very binary poll. I like expansion packs. That's where all this started. More content for a game released after a game meets its deadline? Yes please! Best if free but I can handle some decently priced expansions. Content carved out specifically for the creation of extra purchases? No! Especially if its for something as stupid as extra lives or gold-colored textures.
Comment has been collapsed.
Lol, this sounds like you are mad because you can't afford games. I agree, they can overprice DLCs, but there are a lot of games don't need to buy anything else (except for the game, lol), and you can have tons of fun with it.
But CS:GO, and TF2 are still enjoyable without purchasing anything, it is just you, who feels like you are nothing without a reskin (which has no effect on the gameplay anyway).
Comment has been collapsed.
I never said nor intended that I need to reskin or that I can't afford games. Nice try tho.
Comment has been collapsed.
It wasn't a "try", but then i don't understand this post. Why is it so surprising to you, that companies want to make money?
Comment has been collapsed.
It doesn't suprise me, it annoys me how greedy the companies are and how willing the community is to support it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah well, welcome to the consumer society friend. Even if we dont need this stuff, they makes us need them, and that is cruel, not just in the gaming industry.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ughh Payday 2, I remember when the game was cool (when it became available 2 years ago) they started with a few free dlc, I wasnt mad. Time to time more dlc came up, unnecessary ones, like those 2 new chars or those new weapons (a freaking minigun? really? for a four stores mission?).
Keeping dlc aside the actual size of the game its about 20-25 gb and dont get me wrong here, but both graphics and "particles" or effects are awful jesus christ.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nostalgia Glasses happened. Map packs have existed as early as 1989 (The Duel: Test Drive 2), and they were released the same month as the game for some platforms, costing 40% of the base game price.
Then you have the Speech Packs in the 90s, though those were included in the CD-Rom version of the games. Which means that if you had bought the original floppy release, you'd have to either buy the add-on or re-buy the game to have speech.
As for broken games, Quest for Glory 4 and Battlespire wave hello, since a few of their bugs still exist to this day.
Comment has been collapsed.
This topic actually deserves a whole essay about it, but I just needed a valve (pun intended) for my anger about the game industry.
Since I didn't expect so many comments I don't want to reply to everyone individually because some points I want to comment on repeat.
Yes, everyone has the right to decide if they want to buy stuff and they can do whatever they want. This is what companies use as an excuse, because mostly it is optional to buy the extra content and sometimes not. I do not buy DLCs, back when I used to play Modern Warfare I never bought the maps for 15 bucks or whatever the price was. This is not the problem.
The problem is the changing mindset and increasing greed of the game companies. I do understand that they are trying to make money and I do understand that frequent updates are a good thing, but most of the time this is only the case when developers still make good money from DLCs. Most games become abandoned as soon as developers realise that they can't milk the cow anymore.
Games used to be treated as a form of art. They got released when they were done and extra content was only published when it was worth being pressed on CD.
I mentioned things like TF2 and CS:GO items as well as the trading cards, because it is how they try to keep making money.
And trading cards are fine, but the whole idea behind it is much more complex than just "collecting stuff". This way Valve makes people buy more games for cards, they earn money from sold cards et cetera.
I don't expect companies to gib free content, I just don't like the capitalistic approach.
And as for Payday 2, yes you can play missions with people that bought the DLCs but still... Someone had to pay money for this in order for you to play it and you are depending on them. While I am still running around with my normal weapon modifications other guys have RPGs and Miniguns. Stuff that makes missions a whole lot easier. I don't even have a red dot sight because I never bought a DLC.
I was very close to buy the Gage Courier DLC but I struggled with it for a while because I thought to myself: "5bucks?! For some weapon modifications and crosshairs?! What are you doing? What are they doing?!". This is why I've felt the urge to open a thread.
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
There ain't an achievement for 100% DLCs bro.
Comment has been collapsed.
The Civ III IV V games came with 2 major expansions, and they released as Vanilla, then gold edition with only one DLC, then Complete Edition with both of them... Still great price on sales, and they are almost always on sale, so it's ok.
My cousin bought me Civ 5 Gold, you have no idea how frustrating it is to see the DLCs you miss at 40€ and the "Complete Edition" at... 40€...
Comment has been collapsed.
Ahahaha, yeah, Civ V was horribly messy about its DLCs/expansions/addons. Even the Gold version is incomplete and lacks some DLC on the day it was released. Yeah, it's the Gold pack but it does not have all the DLCs that was available at that time. I think it was missing the Scrambled Nations and Scrambled Continents, and maybe a few things too.
It took until MORE DLCs being out before they finally have a "Complete Edition" that yes, does have everything, supposedly... a bit too late by then, as I've bought Civ V a few times over already by then since, well, at times/deals. For example, buying the Civ V Gold when it was discounted was actually cheaper than buying the Gods and Kings DLC and then other DLCs.
Thankfully I think I now truly have all of Civ V... hopefully... fingers crossed.
Comment has been collapsed.
Before you had expansions,now you have DLCs. Before you needed to go to retail store,now you can get it online(which makes it easier to deliver small chunks of the "expansion pack") . Now most of Season Passes offer content equal to expansion packs. Now its up to the consumer to decide is it worth spending money on it or not.
Most of time base game is complete(story-wise) so DLCs just add some additional content for the player. Weapons/Playable Character and the likes can be OP or unique to the game(aka nothing like it in the game) and those are completly optional(like all DLCs). Maps/Online DLCs are bad for games and you can see some devs/publisher are starting to figure it out(GTA V/DA I Mp content, Titanfall Season Pass for free) .
Now for P2W,well its for f2p MMO games that are afraid to risk it with customizations. Steam Market let players who dont want to bother with trading to sell their stuff for steam wallet funds. TF2/CS:GO/Dota 2 skins have no impact on the game .
Is Early Access/Greenlight bad as an idea? No! Can it be abused by people? Yes! Before getting Early Access game do a research. Even checking the Hub is a good enough because most of devs are active in first few days. Now if Early Access is bad then the same goes for Kickstarter and Indiegogo since they share common goal : help funding dev teams to make their game. Just in Early Access you are supposed to have a playable alpha ... at least ..
Overall... if you like it support it. Vote with your wallet and let it be.
Comment has been collapsed.
I loathe DLCs /payment options when you can actually make your game easier/shorter - but there are some great DLCs out there. Not all are fantastic, but for example Borderlands 2's Tiny Tina DLC is awesome - lots of content, intresting, original, fun, and even adds for the story. On the other hand, headhunter DLCs are like an hour long missions for loot and skins. I don't really like skins/visual content, but at least it's not topping the game's balance.
DLC is not an evil thing to begin with - it's add an option to buy additional content for your game after it's release. The problem is the trend that DLCs turned into shallow graphical/equipment add-ons, they are out at release (and not included for the FULL game you just bought). Also I don't know what game were you referencing having "separate episodes" - Telltale games do it in the right way, or maybe Life is Strange? Actually it's not bad, because you can try the first episode before buying the full game.
Speaking of which: you didn't mention DEMOS. Demos were great way to try out a game if it works, you could find out whether you like it or not - now you can't even test most games if you can run them properly or not. :\
Comment has been collapsed.
Lack of demos is disturbing. There are a bunch of new games that look interesting but they dont have demos so I either wait for cracked version for a test run(~1h) or just wait an year for 75% off ...even then prolly might skip it because of other games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Indeed. I'm really proud of myself that I almost entirely put besides my game-torrenting past, but in some cases I must try them beforehand (kind of the only reason I feel totally legit for pirating) - when the game's setting / visuals absolutely captures me, but I have my concerns about the gameplay or reviews are bad. For example The Wolf Among Us - I've played Ep 1 when it came out. Absolutely perfect, bought it a few months ago. Murdered: Soul Suspect: look great, neat idea, but kind of meh gameplay, it's without a soul but totally worth from the Christmas Sq Enix bundle :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Did the things were better? Or we were just younger? No bug fixes anyone?
Publishers add DLCs simply because most of customers only sees single item price and doesnt add it up over time to total price they pay for game. This state of affairs can only change if customers get smarter (not very likely) or publishers will go too far with this cutting and customers will refuse to buy anything before GOTY editions (quite likely)
Comment has been collapsed.
Gee, because I don't 100% mind DLCs because I generally don't buy them means that my 'daddy' buys everything for me! /s
Seriously, though. What Yeliana's post said. The DLCs are going to be there either way and pricing a game has always been about how much content you get. Normal version of a game for today? 50-70 dollars for a AAA game and probably about 20-30 for a non-AAA game. At least, that is on Steam not including sales. Games cost a lot of money. Some games actually double the price of the game because of DLCS (example, Bioware's fucking ridiculous +$60 accumulated DLCs). DLCs are overall bullshit anyways unless you have a solid reason for buying the DLC and you don't mind spending a bit of cash aka too much cash.
I 'unno, don't buy DLCs unless they actually add something but even then 99% of the games out there with DLCs that add something is usually an extra 3-hours of fantasy land storymode. Dragon Age : Origins Awakening is a good example of a DLC that was worth it since it definitely adds about 10+ hours first playthrough if you actually listen to the dialogue and explore, etc.
Stuff costs a lot of money. Blame society.
Comment has been collapsed.
The poll was quick and it is more of a joke, considering people like this asian kid that bought Candy Crush Saga stuff for over a thousand dollars.
I am aware that I don't have to buy DLCs, but people feel the need to point that out for some reason. I guess this is just a justification that you can apply to most cases. Like people that are against animal abuse and meat eating in general (I'm not vegan or sth, it's just an example) get to hear "Well, then don't eat meat!". They don't but it doesn't change the problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know, I know. It's similar to the 'stop voicing this opinion because it sounds like a statement of fact! Other people have different opinions!' or the infamous 'if you don't like it, don't use it!'. It doesn't change the problem but the best solution is probably just to ignore DLCs unless you truly feel like getting one. For me, New Vegas is a good example because the DLCs add on to the replayability the game already has. Dragon Age : Origins had some interesting DLCs that add about an hour of gameplay other than Awakening which is why Awakening is the only one actually worth the bang for your buck unless you're interested in the lore, characters, etc.(in which case the other DLCs are great, other than the feastday ones. I mean, really?)
There's probably more out there but I'm NOT going to consider expansion re-releases such as director cuts. They're just stupid for reasons that I hope are obvious. In fact, director cuts and the like are pretty much DLCs tacked onto the the base game with a big 'fuck you!' sign secretly meaning 'Oh, what's that? You already bought the game and you don't want to spend about $10 more for a version of the game that already has all of the DLCs? Better spend the same amount of money as the base game getting the rest of the DLCs). Just wait for GOTY, director cuts, etc. because they usually have the DLCs and such.
Yeah, sorry about that. The /s is a sarcasm thing that people use and I thought it would be obvious but I didn't mean to be a smartass or anything.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know what you mean! I had most DLCs for Fallout 3 on my 360, but just because there was a little trick so a friend and I could buy one DLC and use them on two seperate accounts.
The DLCs had over 2 or 3 hours of gameplay plus voicing, newly designed areas and so on.
I think I am in the same position as vegans. I will ignore most DLCs but I will never affect the game industry.
Edit: I didn't see the /s so it's my fault. :D
Comment has been collapsed.
You can still affect the gaming industry. Sure, we're all probably already tools and the gaming industry is going straight down the drain for a third time. This doesn't mean it's absolutely done for. The way it is now is similar to the game crash that was, what was it, a result of a bunch of shitty games being made for atari and the likes?
I just think people need to be smarter about what they buy and who they trust but at the same time the companies need to stop this 'we're rich and we WILL stay rich, you filthy fucking peasants' bullshit. Okay, we get it, you want to make money. At least make it worthwhile. We aren't in the dystopian apocalyptic future yet. You don't need to start screwing people over at the moment.
Whatever. In the end, I enjoy what I play and I buy DLCs that I think I will enjoy. Everything is a gamble.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just love some of the answers,people nowadays just want to be screwed and they shout MORE! You have to laugh,otherwise you would be crying.
DownwardConcept you are right,im 29 and im a gamer since I was like 4-5 and let me tell you the shameless milking was never ever so bad,simply because we valued our money more,who would by a seperate skin,or quest that was already done in the day of release?NOBODY.
I want to write about Blizzards example and focus on Warcraft 3,so instead of DLC you got an expansion that could have easily been Warceaft 4,in the day of realese however the orc campaign wasnt rdy,so what Blizzard did was that they gave you the content YOU ALREADY PAID FOR,in a form of patch,yes boys and girl what you pay for now in form of DLC is something you already paid for,you got screwed! :D
Than theres the argument that it prolongs the life span of a title,nope,scenario editor does that,again look at Warcraft 3,thanks to very easy editor and modding community people still 10+ years after release,play this game,no DLC needed.
I dont buy DLC,I dont buy overpriced bugged unfinished products,most of the time I wait for sales and buy only GOTY versions but its your money if you want to wear SUCKER sign on your forehead thats your decision and God bless you whatever it is.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you for the answer! This is exactly what I am talking about. Especially because you mentioned something I didn't even write. We value our money and care about what we spend it on.
Comment has been collapsed.
then buy payday2 goty when it takes to 80%...is 20$.
i bought the 4-pack to gift to friends.. when game came to sells with dlcs at 80 i buy all the dlcs. Problem?...
If you value your money,then don't buy games. But when they start to make indie games that you don't like, dont complain then...
Because they have to put a lot of hours of work to do that too.
Comment has been collapsed.
Now they have Unreal Engine, Unity, stores with textures and graphics, back then game graphics was made with coding and you can come to your last line "they have to put a lot of hours of work to do that".
Also no problem, you have friends and money to burn.
Comment has been collapsed.
Are you kidding me? Can't believe you're actually saying something like this. Just because they have pre-built engines to make games on doesn't mean they can mingle for a few days and spawn out high quality games at your feet. Do you know how much unreal or unity charge for each system you work on? Do you really know how much stuff is needed to be coded even after you have an engine to work on?
Please recognize the effort they put into making games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure is they recognize the efford and money i put to study to learn and write english to understand their games, the efford i put to learn Java programming without success (offtopic), the efford i put to my work to buy their games and the efford and money i throw in junkyard to make me a better consumer.
Edit: i made some crappy maps for Unreal Tournament 2004 back then (a random guy).
Sry for my engrish :)
Comment has been collapsed.
yeah resort to mockery when I'm making a decent argument. I've put my money and learned game designing and HAVE worked on Unity and Unreal to make games/school projects. Game dev is a hard process. I worked my ass off doing school project and thus I know and can sympathize with the developers. I don't wish to continue a discussion with someone who can't seem to reply decently . Have a good day.
Comment has been collapsed.
You value your money, yes. But so do the game devs. They don't put hours of their life into making a game just for your entertainment. They do it so they can make money and feed themselves. If you don't a like a game or the way they release stuff don't support them. But stop pretending like they are conning you with DLC's. People buy them because they like them be it cosmetic or gameplay. They are selling their product at the price they deem right. They put effort into it. They don't magically pull out of thin air.
Comment has been collapsed.
Okay, last time: People point out the obvious. I know about the effort put into games. I know I don't have to buy anything. I know that they work and have to earn money from what they are doing. It's the changing mindset of developers and their community.
Comment has been collapsed.
People WILL point out the obvious. That is the basis of a discussion. You pointed out the things yourself. The mindsets changed because they want better returns for their efforts.
I'm sure even you would do all you can to earn more money.
Comment has been collapsed.
In fact. I wouldn't.
I have several long stories that would reinforce my point but I don't really feel like typing personal stuff. Let's just say that I had several opputurnities to do so and declined because I won't do things for money I don't believe in myself.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fair enough.
Doesn't mean that developing DLC's is unethical. The devs are doing what they believe in. If they think people will enjoy useless skins even if they are put at high prices it's their choice. Unless they are robbing the customer by withholding stuff that is already in the product i.e Day one DLC or unlocking content from base game.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just because someone buy something you find useless doesn't mean they value their money less than you.
Comment has been collapsed.
I never said that DLCs and such were useless.
But spending loads of money on skins et cetera? C'mon.
Comment has been collapsed.
People spend lot of money in alcohol,cigarrettes, clothes,drugs,cosmetic stuff.... I don't spend money in that, and i spend little money in videogames... SO.....
Comment has been collapsed.
Man paradox is on the the big offenders of this too. It literally broke my heart when I heard that Cities Skylines would be following the same DLC policy they use of EU4 and Crusader Kings 2. Unless you shill out well over 200 bucks you still can't buy all the dlc for crusader kings 2 in one go. I can't even have the complete game of Victoria 2 because the dlc costs just as much and sometimes more than the main game itself! Not to mention being screwed out of the full game of Tropico 4 because of half a dozen DLCs.
Comment has been collapsed.
I, for one, am ok with game devs shoving DLC; as it signifies that they are still supporting the base game. What I don't really like is Day one DLC. Now that is batshit silly.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm okay with DLC so long as it adds value to the base game, i.e. expansions or new content, and clearly isn't somethig cut out and being resold for, like the infamous Metro LL Ranger Mode. It should also never exceed the price of the base game.
Sometimes though, I buy DLC I don't even care for just to support the developer but that's on a case by case basis. Personally, it really depends on the DLC, and the game.
Comment has been collapsed.
Casual, shills, autistic spergs and politically correct air heads calling for "equality".
Comment has been collapsed.
I do not mind it so long as it isn't overpriced, already included on disk, day one, pre-order only (only to be released later anyways), or is needed to fully enjoy the original game in its entirety or as originally intended.
Comment has been collapsed.
Your poll isn't very good, seeing as there isn't an option for people who just disagree with you and who pay everything themselves.
Comment has been collapsed.
Previously was the cut content sold as DLCs, and then Season Pass, and then the incomplete Season Pass, and now they started with this "Remastered" crap.
It only gets worse, gaming is already doomed indeed.
The newest example is this Dark Souls 2 re-release on PC, it's not even frustrating, it's beyond insulting. A player had the game + season pass and a year later his version is inferior and obsolete, and in case he wants the new version he gotta pay 40% (50% in my country) its full value, even though he already bought the game+season pass earlier.
Comment has been collapsed.
Like other's noticed, DLC is nice if it actually ADDS to the base game.
Another story chapter presenting the main event form some other character's perspective? - ok.
Skin for $15? - no, thanks!
Day one dlc? - DIE!
The poll though...
Comment has been collapsed.
TL;DR Version: DLCs suck. And the poll is a joke, deal with it.
I am a bit upset right now and thought about doing a thread about a topic that has been talked about a lot already, but I don't think it should drift into oblivion since it hasn't changed.
I used to be a full-time gamer. I grew up with games and played a lot until I kinda lost interest 3-4 years ago.
Now I am back into the biz after I bought this PC (two months ago) and realized what a f*cked up thing gaming became.
Every major title releases DLCs and Pay2Win Content, some games even divide the complete storyline into seperate buyable episodes.
Weapon Skins for CS:GO and Items in TF2 get sold for hundreds of dollars.
People spend shitloads of money on trading cards, just for the virtual dick-measuring contest.
I know that there are a lot of people that are old enough to know that things used to be better, but they still encourage developers to go on with that strategy by buying that stuff. In the time I haven't touched my console and didn't actively played videogames I thought that this was a mobile apps thing only, where you could buy in-game currencies for hundreds of dollars on Candy Crush or whatever kids play these days.
The main thing that got me to write this thread is Payday 2. Great game and all but 5 bucks for some weapon modifications?! And 5 bucks EACH for new missions?! I know nothing comes for free in this world but back in my day you bought a game and this was it. No further DLCs or in-game microtransactions. And IF there was more after the release there were things called Add-Ons, that had multiple hours of additional gameplay.
Gnaaaaaaaaaaaa, this so messed up.
Sry for my bad english. Potatoe.
Comment has been collapsed.