The dev was definitely acting shady.
With 3 card drops per activation key even with a sale price of 0.01 and a transaction costs of 0.02 (0.01 going to the Dev) that's $1200 in cards (40000 x 3 x 0.01) going to the dev and another $1200 going to the farmer.
That money is coming straight from Valve, and the reason why Valve stopped letting devs make cards until their game sold past a certain threshold.
To me he got greedy and it bit him.
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You mean that Valve is getting $1200 in profit from users for doing nothing? They aren't paying anyone out of their pocket but out of the wallet moneys users have deposited there.
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That money is coming straight from Valve
As Starwhite mentioned, that money is coming out of the wallets of people buying the cards. For Valve it's just free money coming in.
The reason Valve made changes is to combat fake games and asset flips sold purely to farm cards. They're making free money on those but having too many fake games on their platform car erode customer confidence and that would be a lot more detrimental to their bottom line if gamers move to other distribution services.
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I meant that Valve would be the one cutting them a check (despite the dev adding no value to the community), but yeah your right it's the Steam users who buy the cards who are directly funding this.
Added the fact that cards can be turned to gems, a single person with dev access on steam technically doesn't even need people to buy their cards though, they can and sap the remaining value from the marketplace value of gems. (keys -> cards -> emoticons -> gems -> wallet)
Reminds me of the npr episode on insider trading (episode 671)
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I meant that Valve would be the one cutting them a check [...], but yeah your right it's the Steam users who buy the cards who are directly funding this.
Yeah, ultimately Valve is only moving money from one user to another. (And taking it's cut along the way)
(despite the dev adding no value to the community)
You could say that if the cards do sell there is value in there for someone. Otherwise they would all stay there, unsold.
What I'm wondering is, if the cards are turned to gems, does it cut the developer out with 100% of the profit going to Valve?
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What I'm wondering is, if the cards are turned to gems, does it cut the developer out with 100% of the profit going to Valve?
Not necessarily. depends on how the gems are used. If they are sold on their own, Yes: only the seller and Valve get a cut. Alternatively, if they make booster packs, the devs of those games also get a cut.
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You delete a booster pack to get gems, which you can then exchange to get new booster packs from different developers.
Unless you sell or buy gems off the market, there's no steps where anyone could take a cut off them; However, yes, Valve makes extra profit off gems, due to their being able to be marketed (and presumably eventually being used for packs regardless). Then again, the gem rate for cards is so low, it's a bit hard to say offhand if Valve's overall profit due to gem conversions is higher, even if their profit rate compared against developers does end up being higher.
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Oh, you can be sure. Valve has been proven to have spent money on two things as far as we know. On lawyers to ensure nobody knows how much they actually earn; and economical analysts and consultants to create an almost completely closed internal economy system fine-tuned to perfection for one purpose: making as much free money from users as possible without making them feel robbed. I keep maintaining my view that if they completely closed down the store and only keep the in-game marketplaces, they would still hardly feel any income/profit loss.
Valve's cards, skins and all assorted things on its market are probably the second most profitable legal free money printing device in the entertainment industry after the 1940s US comic book industry.
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I'd assume it increases profit, looking at the factors involved- but as you yourself stated, a lot of what Valve does is intentionally obfuscated. As I said, presumably one can't offhand tell if it leads to higher profits or not (even though you and I both assume it does).
The one thing I find most interesting about the Golden Age of Comics is that apparently it was completely gender-neutral, with both girls and boys freely reading comics. The gender expectations on comic reading only occurred after that (making more modern conceptions on the matter only that much more absurd).
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I barely ever craft booster pack so yeah, I only thought about the profilt from market sales since that's pretty much the only use I have for gems.
I usually turn cards, backgrounds and emoticons that I don't need into gems when their resale value is lower than that of the gems that comes from them. Otherwise I sell them directly.
That's why my mind automatically went to profits plit between between Valve and dev on game items vs all profit going to valve on gems sale. Incidently, if the gems are turned into a booster pack for a different game, and the booster (or some of the cards) sold on the market, the profit from the originall dropped cards would end up going to a completely different dev.
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You don't understand where funds for market transactions come from.
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Hmm I was making the same calculation. But that calculation is assuming $ or € for currency. Since the steam market uses more currencies, I wonder what happens if you use a currency that is 'smaller' like rubles. 0,01 rubles is a lot less than 0,01 euro.
So the percentages might also shift. Instead of a 3 way split, it might be closer to 87% for seller and 6,5 for dev and valve each.
But I'm not sure how currency on the market works.
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I reported one of the devs posts on the Geocode discussions as being rude for calling users "Smug assholes" and got banned.
Such nice self aware dev. /s
Why are people buying his game out of pity again?
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You reported him for THAT? Seriously? LOL!
The dev might have been a little harsh but the other prick had just made the stupidest comment.
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Well he said
I will not accept any kind of abuse or attacks
I guess it only applies towards him. He can attack people however he likes.
The only thing I wrote in the report comment was "rude" and he banned me with even ruder comment that I reported him for. He should have just edited out the rude remark or just ignored my report.
Maybe someone should tell him to calm down, before he falls even deeper.
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Maybe someone should, instead of attacking him like the horde he feels he is facing right now.
I'm not defending the guy, he did a pretty damn stupid move. But now he has to face off internet hysteria or however you want to call it. For something that seems more like a hobby project than something even close to making him money. So I can quite well understand he is a bit short tempered.
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There's being short-tempered, and then there's attacking people in a one-sided manner while feeling your actions are fully excused by circumstances. One is understandable, while the other is a sign either of lack of maturity or of extremely poor character.
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That's an explicit violation of Valve's code of conduct for developers (regardless of how vaguely that may be phrased). (Your online conduct and interaction with other subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette. In all activities on and related to the Sites, You agree to abide by the conduct rules [..] [You will not] [..] abuse [or] harass [..] others.) It may not be to your tastes, but it wasn't in any way an inappropriate reason for reporting.
But putting that aside, it's hard to believe you're still defending the developer after the message they left in the ban. At this point, you need to decide if the developer is worth putting your own reputation at stake for, since they've very clearly run their own down far enough to lose any credibility.
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Maybe I'm just not as easily offended as some of you are, but I didn't find the dev's answer to be abusive or harrassing in any way. At worse it was a slightly harsh comeback to some of the dumbest accusations.
The ban itself was defnitely an overraction, but you can't obectively say the message the dev left was wrong. The dev did something dumb without knowing all the ramifications, like so many small time devs do, and it blew up in his face. And people are attacking him because in their mind he should have been aware of many thing he never ever heard of in his life.
I've seen so many clueless devs over the years who had no idea about most of the things we take for granted. Heck, most gamers don't even know you can buy Steam games outside of Steam. We tend to forget that we're part of a minority of enlightened people who are aware of a lot more than your casual gamer and small time developers.
At this point, you need to decide if the developer is worth putting your own reputation at stake for
So my reputation is at stake for not being easily offended now? Good one!
since they've very clearly run their own down far enough to lose any credibility.
Says who? They've been pretty honest and helpful through this whole ordeal and did their best to help the people who were affected by this. They've responded harsly to attacks and accusations, that's true. Is that all you base someone's credibility on?
He made a dumb decision and he's owning up to it. I've yet to see anything that would change my mind about him. People throwing baseless accusations is not something I respond to.
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you could also report him for card farming. There's a piece of text that shows exactly what he was up to with the guy that...well, ultimately, was the better scammer.
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and now dev beg for money
I feel stupid doing it but it's a good idea so here check this out, my PP
also use special way to talk with his customers
Do not try to blame me in any way for this bullshit.
:)
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and now dev beg for money
Based on suggestion from people for whom he replaced the disabled keys.
Do not try to blame me in any way for this bullshit.
He's right about the fact that he's not to blame for people having had the game revoked. He made a (terrible) deal in good faith and was assured that no actual human were using the keys. Yes, he was naive to believe it, and clueless about a lot of things regarding resellers.
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Based on suggestion
terrible suggestion.
With such "generous" devs (when they generate 40k keys for easy profitz) i won't surprise if valve complitly remove free key generating oneday
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They're gonna end up putting it behind the same gate as Trading Cards.
Or otherwise throttling the amount of keys new devs can make at one time.
Although that wouldn't have affected this particular fiasco.
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-.-
That's exactly what I quoted on his thread lol
But it's pretty pointless to go into a discussion with him.
By saying that you are trying to convey to me that everyone here isn't after me you are trying to imply that I feel like everyone here is after me which I do not in any way.
Applying that same logic to
you cant make me look bad here because i am not bad.
he is trying to imply that I want to make him look bad. Which goes against the 1st quote (him thinking people are after him while they're not)
Ugh, people and their failing logics and being emotional and stuff. :P
I mean, I could try and point that out to him, but he will only get more defensive if he stays along the lines of previous behaviour. And then I'm not really helping him either. ^^
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Just as a notice - I actually wrote to the dev a private message on Steam and got a replacement key, so despite of all bad things that were written here, I see him as a very positive person that is trying to fix his mistake and I recommend all people that got affected by this to do the same. The intention to fix the mistake is far more important that the fact of making it in the first place, as he's a human just like everybody else - I for one appreciate his transparency and honesty, he could act in entirely another way if he didn't care.
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I traced mine to DIG marketplace. I understand that the dev wasn't the one who sold it to me, but they do share some responsibility. The key wasn't actually 'stolen' by me or the person I bought it from. The dev sold it willingly. I don't think it's reallistic for a dev to sell 40,000 keys and then say you can farm these but you can't trade them. They created the situation by flooding the market with questionable keys and with limitations that can't be controlled except through extreme measure like this. It's like buying food and saying you can look at this but you can't smell it, or you can eat it but you can't give it to your friends to eat. LOL. Better analogies are possible.
Is the dev's position that all traded keys must first be cleared by them? Or that keys should never be traded and places like steamgifts shouldn't exist? Doesn't it make more sense that the dev should just sell keys through more legitimate channels and purposes?
I've made 3 or 4 requests for the key to be replaced. It appears that these are being ignored. I'll try once more by FR request and PM. Otherwise, I have no issues with giving negative reviews. I would not want to buy more from this dev nor should others. The dev knew or should have known this would be the result when they made this drastic decision.
UPDATE: The dev (Psion) accepted my FR and promptly and pleasantly provided me with a replacement key and an apology. I was surprised at a reaction that was so different from early comments and other views expressed in defense by others. I think that despite early defensiveness, this dev does realize that they made a mistake and there's no point in taking it out on the community they depend on. Thank you and best wishes
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Yeah, responsibility and accountability for bad choices... Can be fixed, but in "hindsight"... well, you know. negative "pooey" actions create these ripples onto everyone else, and we all get waves of poop as it goes outwards from the initial "corruption", whether we asked for it or not. Food for thought, maybe, if we eat it. It all becomes poo eventually.
There's my anal-ogy... jeez I'm terrible...
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Just explaining to my wife about people getting worked up about something with value of pennies. It's really the principle of it. My time to write that response or ask the dev to replace the key is worth more than the underlying game. I'm just giving them a chance to do the right things but SMH at the comments they've been making. They clearly don't realize that the more they try to make excuses to 40,000 lost customers, the more they get it back in return. Just apologise and return the keys?
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The dev knew or should have known this would be the result when they made this drastic decision.
That's assuming a lot. He sold keys to one person who promised they would only use them for farming an nothing else.
You would be suprised the number of people who don't know about trading end reselling keys. I've had to explain to coworkers, who were long-time Steam users, that they could acctually buy games from other sites. They didn't have the slightest clue about gifting or trading.
Believe or not, many developers are in the same boat. (Especially the samller ones.) To them, Steam is a place where they can sell ther game and they don't know anything outside of that.
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Actually, I wrote "or should have known". I stand by this. It's not a big assumption that a lawyer should know about the law, a car mechanic can change a car's oil, a game developer knows how games are sold etc, etc
The problem with the 'I don't know what I'm doing' defense is that it should be followed with a lesson learned and efforts to fix, not attacks on the people affected.
It's not about anything of value. What I spent on this game I wouldn't bother to bend over and pick up from the sidewalk.
So, why do I care (even a little)?
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This game was activated months ago. I don't like that games can be revoked at any time for any reason. Steam should fix this.
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I'm very supportive of independent developers and fellow members alike. But a big part of being part of a community and having it's support is the ability to say 'sorry dude. I made a mistake'. Where's the mea culpa? This developer seems smug and entitled and you come across as their apologist. I'm not feeling the love. This happened to me from a different developer about a year ago with identical community reaction. I don't even know if that developer is still active anymore. Again, the devs should know this. You can't expect loyal support from the community and act with disdain or indifference for large portions of it. All the best customer service stories start out as stories about bad service.
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It's free for a developer to just replace the key with or without saying sorry. This developer posted that they would if asked. I've been asking for some time now and have been nothing but polite. Where's my key? ISTM that asking politely is not enough. I suspect that what's really required is you have to kiss their a$$. I won't. I'd rather forego the pennies and give justifiable bad reviews.
Why do you seem like such an apologist? Aren't there more deserving developers and members that could use your support?
UPDATE: The dev (Psion) accepted my FR and promptly and pleasantly provided me with a replacement key and an apology. I was surprised at a reaction that was so different from early comments and other views expressed in defense by others. I think that despite early defensiveness, this dev does realize that they made a mistake and there's no point in taking it out on the community they depend on. Thank you and best wishes
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What you're saying is that a car mechanic should know everything about selling cars and trade laws as well because those are related to a car. Game dev should be assumed to know about making games and that's it.
1) Any reason being that the games are stolen property. At least here law says that such property should be returned to the owner.
2) You're not a customer of the dev in any way. His only customer ripped him off and stole the games. You're a penny paying customer at a black market so how much loyalty should that deserve?
3) So giving blatantly fake reviews for a game to punish a dev because you both got ripped off by the same scammer makes sense how?
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Wow. It's like you didn't even try to read what I wrote.
Game devs should also be assumed to know how to market and distribute games. The title assumes more than programming knowledge.
- They sold the games willingly.
- Even potential customers are customers.
- I wrote 'justifiable' review.
Good marketing knows that all feedback is valuable.
Do you want to be right or do you want to be successful? (lessons learned from marriage)
Nevermind. There's no point in trying to change such obstinate views and it matters little to me.
UPDATE: The dev (Psion) accepted my FR and promptly and pleasantly provided me with a replacement key and an apology. I was surprised at a reaction that was so different from early comments and other views expressed in defense by others. I think that despite early defensiveness, this dev does realize that they made a mistake and there's no point in taking it out on the community they depend on. Thank you and best wishes
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No they should not, that's what publishers have marketing departments for. That's why they also have lawyers etc people.
1) Games were sold to 1 person who didn't even pay for them so they are stolen
2) You are still a black market customer only spending pennies on stolen goods
3) Did you even play the game?
So if I steal 100 items from you and sell 100 people an item each each, it's your responsibility to give them a replacement if the cops take away the stolen ones? You are still asking for the victim of the crime to reward you for buying stolen goods for pennies.
Couple pennies don't matter, just the principle of defending criminals? If something doesn't matter, you just forget it instead of posting about it several times and demanding that you get rewarded for buying stolen goods.
If you buy games from the gray markets, you're the one taking the risk that it's black instead. The dev has nothing at all to do with this transaction. So why aren't you whining about the black market instead of the poor dev you didn't buy anything at all from?
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When you sell goods and don't get paid, legally it's a civil contract dispute. Theft is something else, but I'm not here to educate you so, bye. Prefer not to waste my time
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LOL, you have wasted so much time because of couple pennies that you keep claiming don't even matter to you so what's a little more.
I threw couple euros at the dev because it actually doesn't matter to me and it was worth all this funny drama. You threw couple pennies at a black market lottery and lost this time.
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So this dev deleted original announcement where he beg for money and call people thoughts "bullshit".
xD
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In my time at steam I have never approached a developer asking to buy bulk keys for a cheap price. However, 3 have approached me and made the offer. There were a number of games where I could have bought thousands of keys for fractions of a penny each. I don't know how this transaction occurred but it was a commercial transaction that the dev agreed to for financial gain. It was their choice. No one stole it from them while they were sleeping.
You can't expect support of a group that you show disdain or indifference for.
It didn't work out. Good marketing would accept some responsibility for the effect on others that their bad financial decision caused. Others will justify their one sided views all the way while riding a bullet to zero. And its not even me that decides. The irony is that it is their choice.
Peace out.
UPDATE: The dev (Psion) accepted my FR and promptly and pleasantly provided me with a replacement key and an apology. I was surprised at a reaction that was so different from early comments and other views expressed in defense by others. I think that despite early defensiveness, this dev does realize that they made a mistake and there's no point in taking it out on the community they depend on. Thank you and best wishes
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Why are you ignoring the fact that the games weren't paid for? The dev sold the games but didn't get paid, so they are stolen, period.
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When you sell goods and don't get paid, legally it's a civil contract dispute. Theft is something else, but I'm not here to educate you so, bye. Prefer not to waste my time
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Right, that justifies buying stolen goods and then demanding more from the victim. I'm sure you would make a good lawyer.
You are customer of whatever black market that sold you the key. Why aren't you asking for your money back from there like would actually be justified?
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LMAO, instead of being embarassed by your misuse of the word 'theft' when pointed out, you prefer to show your inability to learn by repeating the mistake. Can I suggest you look it up? No point in the rest of it if you won't even use the right word. No point in debating that a potato is not a mammal.. Pretty much defines waste of time.
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Since what word gets used to describe getting things without paying for them matters the most in this and not actual principles of it being wrong. Some people don't read their morality from a law book but can think for themselves. Can I suggest you do that?
That kind of BS is exactly the reason I said you would make a good lawyer. You're already defending criminals like a champion saying they did nothing wrong, it's all the fault of the victim.
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Morale and ethics, you look those up since you can't read apparently LOL.
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Hello SG,
A large amount of keys for the game Geocore have recently been revoked.
As it turns out, a user bought 40k keys from the dev, supposedly for farming purpose. The developer naively agreed to it, not knowing that the user was reselling the keys. On top of that, the user revoked his Paypal payment to the dev and after months of trying to resolve the situation, the dev was left with no other choice than revoking the keys.
He's now stuck with a mess, having a negative Paypal account he can't use and angry users posting negative reviews because the key they bought from a shady website got revoked. Most of them seem to be gone now
Still, the developer is doing the honorable thing and offered to replace the keys of those who got screwed over this.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/355190/announcements/detail/2887254881753042837
So if you had your copy revoked, you can contact the developer with your revoked key an he will try to sort it out for you.
Personally, I bought a copy to support the guy and help him out of a dreadful situation. (It's cheap enough, a kind of game I do enjoy, and it has trading cards to boot.)
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