You should stay away from then internet then if you care so deeply about how complete strangers perceive you
(for the record i don't even know what EDL is)
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English Defence League... a racist group basically.
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I feel bad about it. I'm a Muslim myself and i'm always getting hate about it. I'm not angry in any way, that's just my username. When I told one of my friends I was a muslim. He called me dipshit and left me. Now people are going to friend me on steam and spam me.
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Some friend he was. Nothing bad in being a Muslim. Or a Christian, a Jew, a Buddhist. Belief is not a crime.
Being a fanatic is totally different and it doesn't matter to me behind what religion or other ideology fanaticism is hiding. It's all the same to me, they all care only about what they think and nobody else. I equally despise all people that claim they are better than others and should be treated differently because of their religion, nationality or skin colour. Doesn't really matter to me if it's a stupid skinhead or a black guy calling everyone around a white racist (being in fact racist himself), a Christian who says he's offended by shawl or a Muslim or an atheist being offended by cross, a Turk or a Bohemian demanding larger social benefit then other citizens because of his heritage (all examples taken from my real life experiences).
Islam problem IMHO is large number of fanatics and plain dodgers hiding behind the faith.
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Actually, I do. In short, it's easier to live when you have something greater to believe in and life seems to have more meaning if there is some afterlife with some reward for good deeds. Believer can always tell himself god will reward him for his sacrifices, or at least that god will be happy if a man has done a good thing. Atheist can only tell himself that sacrifice felt like a right thing to do and it may make some other happier. Unfortunately faith, like love, is a blessing and one can't simply choose to believe or love. So, I guess atheists are poor people. At least I am :P
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i'm an atheist too.
firstly, to be an atheist and to be a phrenetic atheist is a big difference as you compared religious fanatics. atheism is just an another religion.
secondly, there is no reason to prove the existence of God or some mysterious force, as there is no reason to prove his lack of. this line of thinking is called pragmatism.
finally, i want to say that religion and manners are different. the main task is to respect someone else's faith. I not prove anything to anyone, because in that case, I would be the same fanatical religious atheist (inquisitor) who runs around and kills dissenters :)
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Interesting...
While some of your extrapolations might be off target, you do manage to make some good points. Fanaticism is a bad thing by default as it involves going to extremes, and extremism is bad by definition. That is one of the reasons why extremism is forbidden in Islam. Arrogance is also a huge mistake. Being offended, however, is an emotion and therefore cannot be "wrong." Your issue is not with a person being offended but rather with the actions that person took when offended. If the actions of such a person are inappropriate for the circumstances, then that is a mistake. In truth, the difference between "right action" and "wrong action" is usually one of context. Pour a glass of water on a potted plant and it's considered right. Pour that glass of water on the guy beside you at the pub and it's considered wrong. Same action, different context.
As for the "Islam problem," that one's based on ignorance. If both Muslims and non-Muslims knew the religion better, there wouldn't be any problem.
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I think he meant "islam's problem" not "islam problem" context sounds like he dropped the "'s" by mistake(and I actually read it that way until you pointed it out by reading it differently). so the problem had by islam, not the problem of islam.
not that it really matters lol. just that it explains the different way he said what that problem was(both seem right though)
yours was that people on both sides through ignorance can misinterpret or can be lied to about scripture and his was that the main crazies would find something else to be crazy about anyway regardless of their excuse
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Exactly. What's funny is that almost nobody knows that the Jews and the Christians are Muslims, according to the prophet Mohammed. He never tried to convert them because he saw no need, as they were already believers in "The One True God", having been brought to the "True Faith" by the prophets that came before him. He just saw himself as someone who was tasked to bring the Arabs to the true belief, the Arabs at the time being polytheists. He did worn the Christians though about the mistake of deifying Jesus, but he understood that they were doing it out of zealotry, out of having too much faith. In fact Mohammed was friends with the Jews and the Christians, he sought and received shelter in these communities when he was at war with his enemy polytheist arab clans who regarded him as a heretic. What's going on today between the followers of these 3 so called religions, that are essentially the same religion, is a disgrace. But I guess that's just human nature; we seem to find it much easier to seek out the differences between us instead of the things we have in common. Just look at all the conflicts between different Christian sects throughout history: the official version of the faith adopted by Roman Emperors (I'm avoiding the term Catholic because today it has a different meaning) and the Arians (not Hitler's arians, but the followers of Arius, the bishop of Alexandria, who thought that Jesus was not equal to God, but subordinate), or the ridiculous schism between Rome and Constantinople that's been going on for almost a thousand years now, or more recently between the Protestants and Catholics.
P.S. I'm not really a believer in any of these faiths, though I tend believe in a God. I guess in a way I'm a follower of the teachings of The Great Buddha not to accept as being true anything that society or tradition tries to impose on me, but only that which I consider to be true because of my own reasoning.
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About offence, what you wrote is what I meant. I myself feel offended quite often by various opinions or behaviour. But when I know it was caused unintentionally, why even mention that to anyone? And one has to be foolish to think that someone wears or displays religious symbols just to offend. Even what action was intended to be offensive, I try to understand why such action was taken. But that's me. Everyone has right to feel offended and to say he felt offended. Not right is imposing behaviour, way of life, culture on other people and justifing it by completely subjective feeling.
I agree, it's about the context. I think we should always respect and observe culture of the place we're in. That applies to something as large as country and as small as single temple. For me it's equally inappropriate to wear shorts and sleeveless shirt to church, as it is to forbid someone to wear bikini on European beach. Even more, in Poland it's considered indecent for woman to publicly sunbathe topless, while in Vienna women do that on river bank in middle of the city. So if someone feels offended, he shoudn't go to Donauisel, or some African countries. On the other hand, no one forces anyone to take off her bra just because she walks Donauisel boulevard. It's so simple, and if all people undestood that, we woudn't have incidents like recent events in London.
I hope I didn't offended anyone by comparing religious behaviour and partial nudity, but I think this is one of simplest examples of the common principle.
One more thing your example with glass of water reminds me. In Poland Easter Monday is called Monday Cast. Any other day if you pour water on someone, it's wrong behaviour. On that one day in that country it's not wrong - it is tradidion, and even though I don't like it, I have to live with it. So I stay at home rather than expecting everyone to know that I do not wish to be soaked.
I apologize for "Islam problem". Like TheGannet suspected below, it was just a slip of a tongue (if I use that idiom correctly, again), There's nothing wrong with Islam, and in fact, problem that Islam experiences is common to all religions, it just unfortunately happened to be bigger in this case. In Poland, mostly a Christian country, we have our own deal of biggotry and some fanaticism, and I personally never forget how many blood was spilled in the name of Christ in past ages.
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Unfortunately, that is the world we live in. A lot of people "left" me when I embraced Islam, including most of my family. I don't regret my beliefs in the slightest, but I did expect more from them. It's all for the best, however, as I now know them for who they are as opposed to whom they pretended to be.
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I think converts, especially in america(Where we're all mindless sheep who startle at every twig and shadow) are generally viewed differently. its one thing if you're born to it, but if you switch to it you get lumped in with the guys who do so in prison and turn out nuts. so lots of people who'd be accepting if you were already muslim may feel different that you went out of your way to convert(there just seems to be a higher proportion of fanatics in converts(cause those born to it either a: know what its about more than a noob or b:may be muslim by default, but converts have to really care to bother) and people like to generalize try not to take it too personal, they really don't know better than to go with the kneejerk bs. individuals are smart, people are idiots.
thats for strangers...families tend to take that sort of thing as rejecting them rather than finding a something you like.
that sounds worse than I meant...basically I was trying to be reassuring,
they'll get over it in time when they figure out the difference,
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Yes, well, it hasn't turned out that way. I haven't actually changed my beliefs nor myself. I believe the same things I always believed, and I'm the same person I've always been. The only difference now is that I have a lot of knowledge I didn't have, before, and I found out that the religion I had been practicing, the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him) is Islam.
Most of my family, on the other hand, act as though I suddenly turned into a different person. One day, I'm considered the most intelligent, reasonable, skeptical, honest, religiously learned and level-headed person among them, and the next day they see me as foolish, fanatic, crazy, and the most ignorant one among them. It has been over twenty years, now, and I don't anticipate them changing any time, soon.
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I honestly do not care what people believe in, as long as they do not use it as a guise while they hurt others.
Oddly my attitude towards things might be why I am friends with people of different faiths.. including those who are satanists and practitioners of Voodoo. That and the fact that I like to read up on all of the different faiths out there. Mainly so I have a better perspective of others.
So, when it comes to your "friend" who no longer wanted to be your friend for what you believe in.. well.. they where not really a friend now where they?
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Getting bombarded with tweets from them.. Jesus man.
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hate 'em, it's about 90% full of chavs that just wanna hit someone, i'm not a muslim but i'm part arab which somehow makes me a bit of a target as well, but eh i can take care of myself when they start shit.
funnily enough i was messing around on pastebin the other day and managed to find a huge list of EDL members and their supporters, had info like phone numbers, postcodes, addresses and net worth lol
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I like ignorant people as they always manage to act as the fools they are.
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For a second i thought EDL (English Defence League) had a similar meaning to Grammar Nazis or similar.
Sadly, i was wrong.
It saddens me to see such irrational hate towards someone that thinks differently.
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Something seriously needs to be done about them..
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Australia - it consists mostly of prison colonies anyway :P
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and no, the "say it until it becomes true" quotes from msnbc about "making war on a black man in the white house" don't count...unless today's lefties see everything in terms of skincolor and they(especially the white ones) only hated bush because he was a honkie cracker?
(I'm not a teabagger or even a republican but I'm tired of the same exact transparent bullshit argument for everything coming from what I used to consider my team.
Don't like government controlled medicine? racist. Object to the list of emails the whitehouse collected for doctors who spread damaging information about obamacare? racist. object in theory to drone strikes against american citizens on American soil without so much as a token treason charge to justify the kill order? racist. don't like veiled tax hikes or general sneakiness? racist. object to all americans being monitored without warrants all the time through google apple and microsoft, through internet history and smartphones? racist(also they'll probably blame bush. (it technically started in 2007, but was ramped way the hell up(like a couple orders of magnitude) by obama administration(bush for example wanted to look for version phones in a certain region making foreign calls because a terrorist leader was known to be using that brand in that place(and only until they narrowed down which was him). obama listens to everybody all the time))) call bullshit on fast and furious, something fishy with Benghazi, or complain about the irs being used as a weapon against political enemies? racist(even though that last one they claim has nothing to do with obama, somehow its still because hes black and if we had a white president everybody'd be cool with the irs intimidating and harassing political opposition in an attempt to kill grassroots) Hell Pelosi is white and criticizing those idiotic quotes about "you can read it after you sign it" is somehow racist.
with half the stuff this guy's said, done, or at least been attached to all the people who wanted bush impeached for the patriot act should be howling for this guy's blood. but they don't want to be racist.
not that I have actually made(or necessarily believe the common portrayal of(for example the drone thing probably isn't true)) most of those arguments, but the people who do deserve a bit more than "shut up racist" as a rebuttal.
I mean isn't it just a little(lot really) bit racist to see obama as only a black man? as if he has no other values traits or personality outside of his elevated melanin content? Whatever he does he'll always just be "the black guy" to his own party...thats messed up.)
Electing a black president was supposed to make this shit better not multiply it tenfold; hes half white can't the teaparty just hate(not even really hate...more "opposition") the white half?
I never should have voted for the guy....even romney would have been better and he was terrible. :(
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@WPacey_89
@Thedoverkid @Nationalist_UK The way things are going, the last thing you'll have is unity and equality! Nationalism is the only way!
facepalm
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Nope:P
English parents, agnostic, white. Just upset by racism..
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Because I assumed wrong, I wasn't laughing at him.
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Because he was called a retard by some fucking Anti- Islamic dumb group.
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I'm now genuinely confused as to why you're still even bothering engaging in dialogue with them on the internet.
Things no one has ever said: "That person on the internet has completely convinced me my bigotry is wrong and I hereby declare peace, love and unity!"
What can (and does) actually happen: "That person on the internet who thinks I'm wrong is definitely wrong and I am now feeling more justified in my ludicrous opinions than ever!"
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Not true. I've changed my mind on topics before and members of the Westboro Baptist Church have managed to realise they are wrong thanks to contact with the folks of the internet.
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"These people say they'll attack us if we come protest in their town. Sorry guys, the trip is off."
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I wasn't actually talking about that, but of people who realised that their entire belief system is wrong and that they're living in a cult. Something like forty members have left the WBC in the last ten years and that includes the pastor's own children, one of whom ran their Twitter account and the like and so had a lot of contact with other people's views.
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Thing I find must amusing is their constant retweeting of my tweets... hmmmm
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... nothing I've never met anyone who was a member of the EDL as far as I know, the only time I have heard about them is when theyare on the news harassing Muslims or beating up some other idiots (Muslim idiots this time) who thought going to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq (or maybe it was Afghanistan) spitting on people and burning Union Jack Flags was a good idea. Best solution, round up all the bigoted dip-shits, whatever their race/religion and put them on a small island somewhere with no way off until they settle their differences one way or another.
Course I haven't lived in the UK for over a year, maybe they are worse now but I guess they are mainly in a few areas.
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I like you, havent lived in the UK for a while, but if youve never met someone from the EDL, youve probably never known anyone from Luton.
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Oh, SNAP. I live very close to Luton and I can tell you it's the dankest hellhole outside of Mos Eisley.
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I used to live in Aylesbury. Too close to Luton for my liking.
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In fact I know only one person from Luton, and he's definitely not in the EDL, I am from Norfolk, which doesn't have the same problems as their are not a lot of immigrants at all, probably because, there are not a great deal of jobs to tempt people to move their. I lived in the North of England for quite a few years to, in places that do have racist tensions but heard a lot more about the BNP than the EDL. These days I live in New Zealand so don't hear a great deal about either.
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Norfolk is beautiful. However I live in Mexico but still keep up with the English news.
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We have idiots doing the same thing at U.S. funerals, only they're Christians. It would seem that Idiocy is an equal-opportunity employer.
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I'm... undecided. Blanket statement time: most members seem to be not particularly bright and likely spend their weekends hurling insults at another set of not particularly bright people over a game of football.
And yet...
...and yet...
...multiculturalism doesn't work when one of those cultures seeks to become dominant. The EDL have come to prominence recently over their stance towards Islam, the extremist branch of which would like nothing more than to enforce Sharia law on the entirety of the UK. As someone who most certainly does not want to live in a Muslim country, I can dislike the EDL for their ignorance, their bigotry, and their stupidity but I can't, I just can't, discount the whole of their message. This worries me and I haven't got a clue what the solution is.
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Actually Islam says to follow the rules of whatever country you're in so long as they don't go against the religion and not cause trouble essentially, basically common-sense stuff. Also, nowhere in Islam is it said that women must wear a burqa or niqab, this is solely a cultural phenomenon, stemming from generations of ignorance about Islam in patriarchal societies. In fact, if you do your research, you will see that Islamic societies gave women much greater rights than most if not all civilizations before them.
All these extremists who believe that the killing of innocents will grant them a ticket straight to heaven are brainwashed and misguided, the only place murder-suicide will put them is on a fast track to hell.
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So... what about homosexuals then? What about the English culture of drinking alcohol, in particular the pub as a social hub? What about the right to free speech and the right to protest against Islam/Christianity/any single religion ever? What about in 50/100/500/whatever years time when Islam isn't the second most popular religion in the UK but the most popular and we have Muslim MPs in parliament?
It's not going to work and it's going to get nasty.
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I don't support trying to implement sharia law in any nation's government without the consent of the people, and honestly to me it seems like a stupid idea in the first place; it would never work. I don't get a) why someone is still trying and b) why people are still freaking out about it.
Homosexuality is explicitly forbidden in Islam, however nobody is forcing anyone to interact with anyone if they don't want to. Drinking is also forbidden, I live in the US and I don't go around blowing up bars or disrupting the people in them (this is hyperbolaic, not sure if that occurs in UK lol), and Islam doesn't say that I have to murder every nonmuslim I see.
I can't tell the future, but hopefully if someone is intelligent enough to make it to parliament, they can follow the rules of their religion.
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"...the extremist branch of which would like nothing more than to enforce Sharia law on the entirety of the UK."
Don't believe everything you hear on the telly, mate. For starters, extremism is a violation of Islamic Law. It might be OK for you Christians to be extremists, but we Muslims aren't allowed. That, right there, should tell you something about the trouble-makers.
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1]we aren't either. it makes baby Jesus cry(and probably full grown Jesus too, but those are that single manly tear sort of thing) and violates some old testament commandments.
(the whole crusades thing was started by "priests" who were actually the third sons of nobility and basically after the same political power as lords deciding to make a powergrab and all being promised a chunk of the holy land if they lied about the bible(most couldn't read it for themselves so when god says kill the devils over there for the holy roman empire and Constantinople or wherever he must have actually said it) and sent random pawns off to die...basically the same kind of crap going on with the crazies in the middle east today and having just as little to do with the actual religion. "the infedels must die. its right there in the bible, I'll show it to you because i know you can't actually read it, especially in latin"
(I think the violence Jesus ever supported was that one time he kicked moneychangers out of the temple(and I think down some stairs) as a kid, so old historic churches in quebec get turned into giftshops for tourists and piss him off lol))
2] he did say "the extremest branch" those are the crazies. they probably actually do want that sort of thing. those guys aren't real muslims tho and at least most people know that
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I'm about as WASP as you can get and I think they're a bunch of cunts who need a right rollocking. "Peaceful protests"? Bunch a' bollocks, if ya ask me. Every time they come down to Luton, the fuckers start shit up and then claim their rights are violated when the cops come and smack their arses back out of town.
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I don't know why anyone would want to go to Luton anyway!
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sighs Yep... that Luton. That's the road up to the police station they're marching up. I remember this happening. Pretty sure the EDL had a counter-protest about a week afterwards and made dicks out of themselves again. The Muslims may have all been whores and I hope their 72 virgins are rampaging bulls, but at least they didn't cause any violence. The English as a rule are generally more tolerant of extremist Muslims than they are of the EDL, bunch of cunts.
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well....that would probably make me click a like on the edl's facebook lol XD
that was just a ridiculously stupid choice there. did that win any supporters?
(and then what you said the counter protest would of course make me take the like back)
'sides, its all the same God anyways.
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I just got called a retard by them.. I'm 16...
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