Haha I have the same thing. Even though I was raised bilingual I still feel more inclined to the russian language, as I perceive it as way more emotional and personal than any other language I speak. There are quite a few times when I feel like there are words missing in other languages to describe properly what I mean/feel. But, pretty sure you just feel about English that way because it's not your native language.
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As someone who also speaks 2 (well 4 languages but only serbian and english fluently, my russian is meh and my german is quite bad), I can tell you that indeed, it feels like english is like that and if you don't specifically emphasise those words, it sounds like you're reading a book.
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At least there's someone who understands me
high five!
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It's well made puzzle for sure. I liked it. Too hard for me though.
edit: Hahahahaha, wrong tab. Sorry.
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But I don't. I actually can think in English, I don't need to translate anything. Anyway, I've encountered that most of what I write is like a straight translation, yet it doesn't seem wrong to me. Have you seen something weird and unnatural on this page from me?
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Where exactly were my grammar mistakes? I'm looking forward to write correctly. I got it, but it still doesn't entirely answer the question. People don't use "you've put all eggs in a basket" or other idioms in their speech
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What's wrong with "it happens that"? And how would you replace "lose face"? And by that I mean "I don't feel like myself"
when I say "I hear emotion" I mean emotions in general, not the exact emotion or an uncertain emotion, and not emotions. Don't really know if I explained it right.
Yes, I know those, but they are still not the ones to make this post (for instance) more emotional
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He lost face/he lost his face?
"Parla
"It just so happens that . . . " is often used—but so is "it happens that . . . ". Either is idiomatic. And so is another alternative in the same circumstances: "As it happens, . . . ". In English, one often has several equally acceptable choices."
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As it happens, I personally don't consider "it happens that..." to be incorrect, more a stylistic choice. You could just as easily have said "It is the case that I'm fluent in English too". If I were using "it just so happens" or even "it so happens" I would omit "that", because "it just so happens I'm fluent in English too". See Collins definition 4.
Regarding "lose my face", you're literally saying you have misplaced the front of your head. In the phrase "to lose face", the word "face" does not refer to the front of anybody's head, it means "worth in the eyes of others; dignity" and doesn't use a pronoun (maybe someone who studies these things could explain why that is so). The phrase "to save face" uses the same meaning, so "avoid humiliation or embarrassment, preserve dignity" and not "rescue front of head". See Collins definition 6.
If you really mean "I don't feel like myself", I'd suggest replacing the losing face expression that doesn't have that meaning with "I don't feel like myself".
Edit: Something I haven't seen picked up by others, "...to sound it more natural" sounds very unnatural. This seems to be similar to "lose my face" in terms of incorrect pronoun insertion. The normal way to form that expression would be "...to make it sound more natural" or "...so that it sounds more natural", but "...to sound more natural" without "it" also works.
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"Jill says she's not looking forward to Jack's party next weekend."
" I'm looking forward to write correctly. "
What?
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"What we are looking forward to can be exemplified as either as a noun phrase or as a verb-phrase with an -ing pattern"
"Jill says she's not looking forward to Jack's party next weekend." - noun phrase
"I very much look forward to meeting you soon.","They're looking forward to joining their children in Australia" - verb phrase
"I'm looking forward to write correctly." - verb phrase
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omg I'm such a shame for myself
I've always written with -ing, but something clicked in my mind and not a long time ago I started writing without it
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Well, can you tell me anything of that? I mean, sure, when I watch movies in English, I see their faces and hear their emotional tone, I can do that in real life too (not that good, but yeah), but in written it's just all the same, whichever words I wouldn't use.
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*tell me anything about that
*emotional tone. I can do that in... etc
*not that well
*when written its all the same
*whatever words I wouldn't use
You asked for help with your English.
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thanks. But what's with "just all the same" and "whichever"? It seems right.
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The just is unnecessary, but technically not incorrect. I was really just focusing on the when. Whichever is usually only used when referring to one of two options.
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A word of advice, my friend: don't take English advice on the internet at face value. I'm a grammatically-focused English literature major, and I wouldn't even recommend taking my English advice at face value, because we're all fallible.
Flux, for example, provides you with some very helpful advice and pretty accurate corrections--albeit in an almost-rude tone. However, he's wrong about "whichever." This word is not usually used only when referring to one of two options. Instead, "which" and its children, including "whichever," are used when discussing a defined number of something, and that number can most certainly be more than two.
Nevertheless, your usage of "whichever," and that clause in general, was a bit awkward, to be honest. I would provide you with a corrected sentence, but I'm not completely sure what you were trying to say :) I'd be glad to provide further help, though.
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My sincerest apologies for conveying an inappropriate tone on the internet, I'm deeply sorry. As an English major, you have a more classic approach towards the language. In my short time here on the planet, I've never heard someone use the word "whichever" when correctly referring to anything but a predefined set of options, so you are somewhat correct. Most of the time this describes answers for which "yes" and "no" suffice. As KnightFury is not a native English speaker, I simplified the grammar lesson to something more manageable.
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I didn't mean to come off as rude towards you. I'm sorry if I did.
I don't think I have any extra authority due to my English major, but it does mean I pay more attention to grammar than the average person does. And I didn't just pull that description of "which" out of my brain. I looked up a specific definition of the term to ensure I expressed its meaning accurately, so I'm more than somewhat correct. When someone is trying to perfect his ability with a language, giving imprecise information is not advisable.
And now I have let my tone drift somewhere near the offensive, so I'll stop here. To be fair, I said the rest of your advice, the majority of it, was correct. Can't we be friends, instead?
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Freddie, I don't see any rudeness in your post. And that's the matter of this topic in general. I can't seem to find any emotions in written text. What's the matter with me?
Well, when I write things in English, I try to make it sound good. I knew I should have used "whatever", but it sounded perfect for me if I used "whichever". Shouldn't I do that to make my language more expressive and vivid?
Why aren't you sure of what I wanted to say? I think I've enounced my thoughts right. I don't get emotional tone when I read.
Over and above: I'm reading Ray Bradbury's "The Martian Chronicles" now. I understand emotions. I hear voices of the characters. I hear the author's voice. But what I read on the Internet is far from my cognitive understanding.
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You seem to use idiomatic expressions from Russian or another language a lot in your writing. Spending some time in Britain or America would certainly improve your speech. I'd recommend avoiding Britain, as they do use some phrases not in common, American English, but if that's your only option, its better than nothing.
Ray Bradbury has written a lot of great literature, but its slightly outdated. If you want to get better at modern English, read more contemporary works, from authors like Cormac McCarthy, Philip Roth, and Jonathan Franzen.
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Yes, I don't like British English too. I know I should've spend time abroad a long time ago, but it just can't happen yet. Later I'm certainly going to go to English-speaking countries, but since I can't at this particular moment, what else can you suggest?
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Watch a lot of English movies, and television too. If there's something like an English-learners club where you live, that would help too. But honestly man, you can write pretty well. Don't worry too much.
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What is it about "British English" you don't like?
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Don't worry, KnightFury. You're doing perfectly fine. I'm impressed with your ability to speak English. Full fluency will come with time and exposure. Like Flux said, immersing yourself with English by living in an English-speaking country is the best way to hone your English skills, but if this is impossible for you, then just keep doing what you're doing, writing in English and consuming English media.
Also, I love literature, but literature, especially good literature (like Bradbury's writing), is often experimental, so don't take its use of English at face value. The best way to learn English in text form is reading well-written English news articles, like in The New York Times or, if you really want to challenge yourself, The New Yorker. Journalists, in theory, practice proper writing at all times because the goal of journalism is to transfer information efficiently to the reader, while the goal of literature is to create art or at least to entertain.
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But as you can see, English media is not enough. I've spent thousands of hours watching "vsauce", "scishow", "RWJ" etc. on youtube :D
Well, "perfectly fine" is not fine for me. It's gruesome. You see, I'm starting English philology studies at university next year, and I simply need to be as much perfect as I can. Not that they won't teach me or anything, but it's my intention to become more viable when I get my masters degree at translation.
My friend from Moscow is studying journalistics for $4000 a year. He's got only about 10% of writing lessons in the whole course and he's on the final year. Therefore I doubt they really are that much of a skilled writers
About news: they're not always honest about things that happen in Venezuela and Ukraine, for instance, so I don't believe them. It just butthurts me when I read them that they show wrong news that fits their political needs.
Anyway, I'll start checking news since today in English then. Thank you.
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Just a word of advice - the New York Times is often considered to be on a middle school reading level. The New Yorker is a good idea, and I'd recommend Harper's as well.
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If the political biases turn you off, then I'd recommend frequenting games journalism instead. Giant Bomb is my home, but their written stuff isn't that great, so I go to Polygon for my written games journalism. Does anyone else have website suggestions for well-written, interesting games journalism?
And, of course, you could always just frequent my beautiful prose on these here forums :P (That was a joke)
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KnightFury appears to have a grasp of the English language somewhat close to that of a privately-educated 6th grader, not yet able to convey his voice in writing. This is not at all offensive, I hope, because he is certainly better at his second language than most people are. Its even more impressive because English is incredibly difficult to learn. Would you teach a 6th-grader the practical use of a word, or the one that used only in highly-advanced literary essays and works? We can be friends, provided we share common interests and spend a good deal of time together. Seeing as how those conditions are unlikely, I think we should just stick to "friendly."
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I would say he's more at a high school level in many ways. I don't know what private schools are like where you live, though. Here they're like expensive public schools with uniforms.
I have a cow, a sheep, a goat, and a hen. (What would you like?) (Which would you like?) Circle the correct answer.
I don't think saying that which is used for more than just two options is highly advanced. As native speakers, we intuit the meaning of this word before 6th grade, which is why I corrected it so he wouldn't be confused when asked the sheep, cow, etc. question or something like it.
Also, we're on this site, so half of your conditions are likely met. Based on your profile picture, you like Elder Scrolls stuff, and I've put 500 hours into Skyrim alone. Not sure how much I put Oblivion, but it was a lot. The spending time together thing is a bit harder, but I'm willing to move in if you have an extra bed.
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Well, if we get off to school education then I can say that I've passed my local high-school exam and got C1 (the highest rank of this exam, 95-100%)
Therefore I find "6th grader" status a bit offensive though it's not meant to be.
Things are becoming a bit serious between you two, huh? :D
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Wow, great job on that exam! And don't worry; My roomie Flux and I both think you're smarter than a 6th grader.
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Hey man, that's great. I'm assured of your high level of intelligence. You speak multiple languages; if that doesn't speak for itself, you've held up quite well during our dissection of your writing skills. That takes a lot of courage.
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I like your sense of humor. You make a fair point about the intuitive nature of English. I concede. Anyways, the private school I attended managed to properly teach me Algebra 2 by 7th grade. Calculus was a breeze in high school. Three of my classmates in 8th grade won awards for an English competition; I didn't enter as I felt uncomfortable with the subject matter for the essay. I live in New Haven, Connecticut, where the contrast between private and public educational institutions is quite disturbing. 80% of the public school's population is free or reduced-priced lunch. The closest private school is a known Ivy-feeder.
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I live in the Midwest (Missouri), and the free/reduced rate for our public school is around 50%, I believe. Perhaps the New England middle/upper class is more into private schooling, or maybe the Connecticut public school system is less.. "good."
However, my public school most definitely did not put us through Algebra 2 in 7th grade. That was a 9th/10th grade course. Also, I've never taken Calculus, as it wasn't required at my school. I'm stupid when it comes to math, and I like it that way. Fuck numbers.
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The cities in CT really personify the "ghettos" of modern American life. The city I live in had the 3rd highest per capita murder rate of any city in the US for many years running. As soon as you go a mile outside the city line, though, you're in the most rural community with the best education this side of the Mason-Dixon line. We house institutions such as Hopkins Academy, founded in 1640 and still causing suicide to this day, as well as various other schools where the likelihood of my exiting sane incredibly low. Some of my friends went to these schools, I hardly see them anymore, and their standardized test scores aren't higher than mine. I realize that's not the best way to gauge knowledge, but still, I'd rather not exhaust myself to obtain an education deemed "better." I learn other things, like social skills and how to identify with people you never thought you could.
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Yes it´s hard . But we all suffer .As a someone from Bavaria , sometimes I understand english much better than some regional German dialogue-technic. You ask them some thing like "yes or no?" and they answer always with "nü"(yes) that sounds very similar to "nö"(no) :-)
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why do you talk in English when you both know German anyway? o_O
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English is an imperfect mishy-mashy porridge of a language that's never going to be just right :|
I think it's okay to not feel completely comfortable while speaking English as a non-native speaker honestly. As long as you are able to communicate your message, I am sure no one would think less of you and neither should you :)
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Its that mishmash that makes English beautiful. We have a ridiculous quantity of words synonymous with each other, and yet retaining slight differences in their definition and connotation.
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All languages are imperfect. If you find a truly perfect language, please let me know so that we can make it the global language and get rid of these pesky language barriers.
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First of all, I think you just don't know English that well (compared to your mother tongues). I'm sure you can imitate formal/informal/mid-century and whatnot way of speaking in Latvian/Russian, but can you do that in English?
Just speak/watch/read more in English and with time you'll be better at saying what you want to say, not what you can :) (Sometimes it can be difficult to do that even in your native language :D)
On the other hand, it might be the case of the grammar, yes. English has no cases, so it's bound to a certain grammar structure, while languages with cases (Latin, Russian, German) can mess up with the word order any way they like.
In Latin (from wiki):
Romulus condiderat urbem. ["Romulus had founded the city."]
Romulus urbem condiderat. ["Romulus the city had founded."]
Condiderat Romulus urbem. ["He had founded Romulus city."]
Condiderat urbem Romulus. ["He had founded city Romulus."]
Urbem Romulus condiderat. ["The city Romulus he had founded."]
Urbem condiderat Romulus. ["The city he had founded Romulus."]
Like that you can emphasize words without intonation. I guess that might be the case English seems stiff to you. Also, both Russian and Latvian have grammatical genders, so that may also be the case.
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Well, I can try. It's not going to be that perfect, but I think I'll manage both informal and formal. And I'm not taking upon myself :D
I'm speaking/reading/watching in English for 7 years. So I've been around English language for a quite time now )
Yep. I understand that. Love the ability to emphasize things in Russian like that, yet I've heard there are inversions in English too. Aren't they alike a bit? So what do you suggest? That I'll always think of it as of the stiff one, or will it change with time though?
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I haven't. But I watch The Simpsons and get 70% of references. Why?
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The way you emphasize things is based on how YOU talk. Some people are very expressive, some people are more monotone. It isn't the language, it is how each person speaks it.
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The core of this message was about written use of language, not spoken. The spoken is easy
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He is talking about spoken language, as in when he says something like, "You know what? I've slept one hour last night and don't even feel like going to bed."
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I hadn't noticed that, I don't pay that much attention to who exactly says what. The only time I notice something like that is when it is a continued conversation, back and forth, rather than a while later.
I just hadn't seen anything in the OP about written as opposed to spoken, especially as it doesn't say anything to suggest that.
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Oh my, it's like that King's Bounty kerfuffle on RPS all over again. 'The translation is stilted like butler's doo-doo!' - 'But you just can't translate humour!' - 'Yeah, you can't mangle up English phrases the same way as Russian ones!'
I've never played King's Bounty in Russian, but I don't think it's anything like Joyce's Finnegans Wake in terms of density of cultural connotations and wordplay - which indeed would render it almost untranslatable. So the problem probably was that the localisation team just wasn't good enough. I'd guess that if your original intention is to deliver an emotion, or a specific (e.g. playful) tone, rather than a particular titbit of information, you ought to start by looking at the means of expressing the same emotion in the target language, rather than the means of conveying the same message. Think of English phrases that made you feel the same way, and figure out why they did. As soon as you start pondering the 'proper' way of expressing duration in English - 'Do I use "for"? Should I put "only" before the verb, or the numeral? Shall I go with the exact numeral or a loose one?' etc. - the original tone is lost. Take your suggested phrase: even without venturing into the expansive wasteland of profanity, you could easily muster something like this: 'Check this out: barely an hour's wink and I'm not even sleepy, like at all.' Would that emphasise the things you want to emphasise?
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Well, that seems like a sage advice, thank you. It turns out that I need to find a proper equivalent expression for everything I want to say instead of trying to translate it if I can't remember how's it called.
Yes, the phrase you composed is much like the one I wanted to.
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In English, we emphasize our speech and give it color through various means:
The only reason English doesn't seem expressive to you is because you do not spend enough time with people who speak it well. Using the phrase you mentioned in the OP, it might be translated into English as follows:
"Check this out: I slept one hour, last night, and haven't even the slightest desire to go to bed."
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Dunno why but I imagined a British accent and tea at the last part lolz.
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Probably because they still speak English in Britain. P
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Thanks a bunch, sir! But why do you intend to use "check this out"? It sounds very very very strange and childish
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LOL!
More ghetto, perhaps, but not more mature. )
I chose the wording I did because that is a common form of drawing attention to what is about to be said. There are other ways, of course, but they are less desirable for different reasons.
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Ok, then the phrase should simply lack this "attention drawer" because nothing fits in.
What's crimony? is it christ?
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You could do well on your quest if only you have the will to incorporate google search in it ...
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yep, I did. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crimony
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The attention drawer is there in the Russian phrase, so you want one in the English translation. The difficulty comes in trying to convey the meaning and usage without changing the sentence structure too much. You could use something as simple as "Hey, ..." but you would lose the additional meaning that comes with прикинь. Since a literal translation won't convey the correct meaning, you want to use an equivalent expression.
Ugh... This is turning into a linguistics discussion. P
Regarding "Crimony," that is simply a nonsense word used in place of other expletives which are either vulgar or offensive. Other such words include "crocachips," "flipblazes," "tarhooty," "tarnation," and many more of which you've probably never heard.
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Hey, do you understand "прикинь" yourself? Because it seems like you do. Anyways, "прикинь" is a vulgarism. So maybe there's no need for one in the translation, but without it sounds not that awesome
Yep I didn't. They sound crazy :D
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Ah, yes, I should have added that to my "emphasis" list. Memory fail. P
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I'm convinced that Russians use them more than you do :D anyway, I did translate it like that in the topic, and it didn't sound right to me
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This is American English. Not many people would say "Check this out" or "Crimony" or "Get this" outside the US.
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In my limited experience of dealing with English speakers in different parts of the world, "Check this out" would seem to be fairly universal. There are more common expressions which vary from region to region, but those tend to be slang rather than "proper English" (as understood by Americans, Australians, and Britons).
I am not, however, the world's expert on the English language, nor is my memory perfect. If you know of a better way to translate the sentence given in the OP, one better than what I could come up with in five seconds' time, please share it with us. I enjoy learning new things.
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No one says "Crimony" in the US. That's undoubtedly only used in the British Isles.
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You sounded awfully confident about that assertion, so I had to double check that I hadn't been missing something in my little corner of the British Isles...
This is undoubtedly off-topic though! :p
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I actually wanted to learn Finnish. Thank you very much, I won't! :D
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Well if you really want to you could but you just need to be aware of what kind of language it is. It is very blunt and straight to the point kind of language. Some see it as a good thing since there are rarely double meanings for words. I'm not saying there isn't any. There is just less of a chance for confusion than in some languages
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It doesn't seem much different to me. Where are those three supposed to be used?
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In terms of the grandiose nature of these words, kingly is the least, and regal is the most. Kingly also sometimes deals with morality or ethics, whereas the other two aren't as likely to, e.g. "behaving in a most kingly manner." Regal often invokes a feeling of absolute authority and splendor. Royal has the fewest connotations.
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English is a mess of a language, but its also incredibly versatile. And both are from the same reason: Its Borg. Its been incorporating words and concepts from around the world for a long time, so common phrases can have a wide variety of origins. But context can be a very delicate thing in English. Juxtapose two words and a sentence can have a different meaning, or be pure gibberish.
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I am a native English speaker and I speak some Spanish. Sometimes I make weird faces while speaking Spanish. So anyways, good luck.
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Interesting, because I also have Russian as my first language, and whenever I speak in English I feel the same way as you
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After this topic I realized that I haven't held many spoken conversations in English in my life. Probably that's the main problem.
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Well, that's a priceless advice. I never even thought of that, taking into account that I'm always losing matchmaking only because of people that don't communicate.
Thank you very much.
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But Russian or CIS country natives (thank Steam for CIS) always have their own mother language dialect ... perhaps thats whats keeping you.
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What? Don't get it. How can dialect in one language affect another one? Also, there are no distinct dialects in Russian. There are, but they differ only with the way some certain words are used.
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i was born in ukraine and i grew up in the states.. so i actually feel the same way you do, but about russian.. in english i can express myself fully, and i'm comfortable with it.. in russian i'm always struggling... i speak hebrew too and always have trouble expressing myself in both russian and hebrew
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Thanks for your answer, now I understand that I just have to spend more time with English.
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I'm originally from South Korea but and learned English as my second language but now I find English more comfortable. But I can see what you mean when I compare English to Korean. Korean stresses in expression are much stronger and noticeable than English. I think it's kind of why when people watch animes and hear Japanese voice actors (because their stresses are similar to Korean) it sounds so expressive while if you go to English dubbed, sometimes it doesn't sound so emotionally diverse. Of course this isn't the ONLY reason (bad voice actors in some cases) but it could be a factor.
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Hello, guys. I came up with a conclusion that I'm trying to prove wrong to myself. What's that? English. As a native Latvian/Russian, I speak both languages fluently and when I speak them, I have my emotions expressed correct. It happens that I'm fluent in English too, but when I speak it, I seem to lose my face. It's like I'm speaking in borrowed phrases from books or dialogues and not my own tongue.
As an example, I would say in Russian "прикинь, я спал всего час и сейчас вообще спать не хочу" which means "you know what? I've slept one hour last night and don't even feel like going to bed". In Russian, I hear emotion - I emphasize "YOU KNOW WHAT" and "DON'T EVEN" (bro), but even if I try to emphasize anything, it still sounds like a formal language expression. Just like a fact. Okay, I've slept one hour. Okay, I don't feel sleepy. Okay. That's it.
So tell me, please, is it just me or is English really that straightforward? Should I speak more of it so that I become more accustomed to it and express myself in the way I want to, or should I use some special words in my speech to sound it more natural, or is there actually nothing I can do?
Thanks.
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