Personally, I favor a partial legalization of them. The main reason they are not allowed publicly is because whenever a new bundle comes out (and there's many indie bundle sites) the same games get spammed/flooded by the dozens or even hundreds, which makes it difficult for people not using the add-on for the site. However, in groups or private giveaways, they should be considered fully legitimate giveaways since, obviously, they can't be seen publicly.

As for the claim that giving out keys is a "violation of terms of service", I have checked several indie bundle terms of service and the majority do not mention the issue. Some terms of service agreements state the following: "The Service is only for sales of products or product rights (collectively, "Products") to end user customers for their personal, non-commercial use". However, the main emphasis of this legal jargon here is that the keys be used for non-commercial purposes. This is a standard legal phrase and it's concern is not so much about sharing keys but rather not making money off of them. I seriously doubt the sites would view it negatively for people to give out extra keys for free to either random people or people they knew -- especially as doing so advertised both the game in question and the bundle site offering it. The main concern of these sites is that the person doesn't sell or trade the extra keys. In any case, some indie bundle sites have dealt with the issue of people selling/trading keys by creating a single key for all of the games so that extra keys simply do not exist (and thus cannot be sold). Therefore, the issue of terms of service violation is irrelevant in regards to these "one-key" policy indie bundle sites.

Regardless what the official decision is going to be on SteamGifts, the fact remains that extra keys will always be given out -- as long as indie bundle services do not switch to the "one-key" policy. There's nothing illegal or bad about this. On the contrary, extra keys being given out mean more advertisement for games and bundles.

The only complication is that now that we have contributor giveaways, it'd be easy for someone to buy loads of bundles for very cheap and then create individual giveaways with the result that his SteamGifts value would skyrocket. That's really the only abuse that exists. However, if a database listing all bundles and the games that go with them was created and a program could check each user for abusing bundles, such users could be searched for automatically by the system. In which case, they'd be banned or their SteamGifts values heavily penalized to reflect their actual values. The problem is that to create such a thing would probably take a good deal of programming and time. That's probably why a simpler, less technical answer is being searched for.

That said, all I want to add is that the issue is not really important to me so whatever is decided is fine by me. I know that there are a lot of fanatical people (mostly on the side of restricting extra bundle keys) who are really bothered by this issue but I'm not one of them. I've never created giveaways for bundle keys but at the same time I don't really care when I see other people creating them either. I'm just posting this as a way for us to collectively brainstorm ideas.

First thing people should do is read the ENTIRE F.A.Q.

Not sure if this has been suggested or if it is even possible but what if for a few months and bundle key games worth is dropped to "1" both for the person giving away the game and the entry price?

Well I never understood why it is prohibited, but, i think it got something to do to the control of contribuitions that a person made. I think it should be implemented a new option in the create giveway page, something like a check box written "Bundle Key" if the box is checked it means it is a bundle key and should worth less or something. Sorry for my bad, ugly and retard enlgish, im brazilian...

1. Can't rely on individual users to check whether their giveaway is from a bundle, but you can rely on groups of indignant, self-righteous users to help you maintain a list of games that have been in bundles.
2. Inventory integration. If a game has been in a bundle, and the user doesn't have the game in their inventory, automatically assume it's from a bundle. If they don't have a public inventory or the game isn't in there (e.g. a GMG key), put the onus on the giveaway creator to prove it's not a bundle game.

Just discount the "price" of previously-bundled keys to 1 or 2P. Or add seperate listings for games. Like, you chould choose between, say, Beat Hazard, and Beat Hazard (Indie Gala). It wouldn't stop people trying to rapidly inflate their value, but maybe you could have a hidden flag for people listing a bunch of "bundled" games at non-bundle price all at once...

I just give those away on the forums. It's easier and hassle free.

If I understand it, spare bundle keys (i.e. for individual/duplicate titles) are not allowed.

However, this is steam gifts, is it not?

I have seen spare bundle keys up, which I'm actually interested in as I want the game. So to ban them actually harms me and other contributors in the same situation.

It seems rather odd if the reasoning is.. "we dont' want them to be recognised as contributors!". Pardon my ignorance, but surely they are exactly that.. contributors. They are gifting a game. Why do the means of aquiring the game matter at all?

So.. they got their free games as spares in a cheap bundle. Are we assuming every other giveaway has cost the contributor money in some way? My recent gift of Torchlight 1, didn't cost me a penny. Nor did the reams of Nuclear Dawn giveouts cost their contributors a penny. How's it any different?

If the core issue is you are worried about people abusing indie bundles to buy for a penny and gift out multiple copies, then:

• Have a flag on your database (if not there already) to recognise any game that's ever been in a bundle
• These games cannot be "multigifted"; so only single gift promotions.
• Users may only gift one (or two?) of them per week, max.

There, volume/abuse issues fixed.

I'd definitely suggest putting up gieaways for whole packages. If the galas can have it, I don't see a reason why the rest of the somewhat way better bundles shouldn't have them (Royales, Be Mines, even the Bundle in a Box series, if it will ever continue).

Actually, now that the early buyers of Be Mine 3 will get an additional gift copy of the bundle to give away (which is a gift url activation key), it would be most suitable; otherwise we'll have sooooo many single keys going out again. This should fix at least part of that problem. I say part of it, because assholes will always be there and sneak the games in one-by-one to raise their contributor amount.

To be honest, the "inflated giveaway worth" problem isn't as big as it used to be. Not that it isn't a problem at all, just that it's no longer as serious as it used to be. When this policy was issued, you could get 100 Frozenbyte Collection keys for $1. Now, 100 keys from Humble would cost...$100. Other bundles have switched from "pay what you want" to "beat the average" or "minimum price tiered" models.

For example, if I had a copy of Bastion (which I already own) from the last Humble Bundle, why can't I give that away (it came as a seperate Steam key)? Because I "got it cheap"? The min. for the other games was $1, the min. for Bastion reached as high as $9. So, if we subtract the other games, that was $8, for Bastion. Which sold for $7.50 in the last Steam sale when I bought it. If that is "getting it cheap" then we need to shut this entire site down for the Steam Summer Sale. If not, then we need to reconsider what constitutes "too cheap". Yes, you can get copies of some of the games from some of the bundles for low amounts, but this doesn't apply to all bundles (like Be Mine or Indie Royale who have had minimum prices of more than token amounts) and doesn't apply to all games in the other bundles (like Humble and Indie Gala, the latter of which puts MOST of any given bundle above $6).

Steam's even getting into the indie bundle game. Why are games from, say, the Potato Sack or the Cube Pack, not considered "bundles" for the purposes of this site? It's possible to part those out, too, and then get inflated giveaway values.

I just think this policy is obsolete. It came from a time when practices and prices were different.

i vote for the separate section,
and about the sale copies, if there was a way of know if they was bought in a sale or not.. the points could match the sale price, but since its not possible, its unfair to the people who paid the full price..

The site is about gifting in the first place.
Remove contributors option and u have no problem.
We have private and group giveaways - why contributors ? Contributors can join into a contributors, invite only groups.

Damn. Stop whinig about simple things.

As much as I can understand there is a difference between single game keys from bundles, the principle idea of it is no less then getting lucky and catching a sale. The point value of any single game shouldn't be affected by whether or not it's stuck in one of the indie bundles. If a game is theoretically worth 10 dollars, then the points should reflect that, especially when those games can also be separately bought on steam.

The sentiment of gifting a spare key to someone who genuinely wants the game doesn't change depending on the value.

I have to note though, what I've seen a couple of times with the last indie bundle is that 7 games are gifted as part of the bundle, and Bastion in this case being gifted away separately because the total of those two giveaways trumps the point and monetary value the complete bundle returns. In those cases it's blatantly obvious what's been done.

Other then that I think it hard to think of a condition for keys from bundles, because you have no way of knowing for sure, bar asking the gifter, where the key has come from. Aside from that, You don't know how much money they've stuck in the purchase of a bundle, bar knowing whether or not they met the minimum amount. There also are TONS of alternative locations keys can be gotten cheap/for free from. If we're not particularly concerned about those, why would we be concerned about bundle keys?

You can want to stop abuse, but in this case you inadvertently also end up 'punishing' pure intent.

Okay, I understand that giving away bundle keys seperately is considered "cheating" for contribution. But I dont see how it is different from buying a game at 75-80% off and getting full contribution for it. tbh I dont think that the bundle key thing is a huge issue, aside from when someone buys a bundle then puts all the keys seperately instead of posting it as a bundle. But if there is only 1 game left from a bundle they bought, they should be allowed to post it as a seperate key.
This site is suppose to be about giving is it not? So why are we complaining when someone gives away something? Because they are are getting more contribution then they paid for? Might as well ban giving away games that were purchased while on sale then.
Okay sure the people posting bundle keys seperately are making more contribution. And everyone is making more points each time someone posts a key. But the game is still the same game no matter where the key came from right? Shouldnt matter if it was paid for full price, on sale, or in a bundle. The point is that someone wants to give it away. Making a big deal over the fact that it was in a bundle seems a bit silly to me. A bit of an elitist idea. Its still the same game!

Just my 2 cents anyways.

I say you just let them post the giveaways. What's the harm?

I have a solution, one that most of you aren't going to like right away, but I think it's the only way that's purely fair to all involved.

Whole (Humble/Gala/Royale/etc) Bundle URLs/keys should be much closer to the total perceived RETAIL price of the collection of games in the bundle, rather than the paltry number they're valued at today.

Hear me out.

When I got a four-pack of Nation Red for like $7.50 total, less than $2 per copy of the game, did SteamGifts adjust the rated value of the game to account for that? No. I still got credit for $9.99 worth of contribution, because, in theory, the game has a perceived value of $9.99. Every game you can list on SteamGifts has a perceived value, whether it's Skyrim, Dota 2, or Fortix, and it's not based on the absolute cheapest price you could get on the game; it's based on what the game sells for (or in Dota's case, some other number I don't know).

However, with regards to the Bundles, we somehow want people to not get credit for the full complement of games that they're offering. The Humble Indie Bundle V (which is flippin' epic) is listed at a $9 value for the purposes of points. Meanwhile, almost every game that comes IN that bundle is worth at least that amount. So you have a circumstance where $100 worth of games are being valued at $9. Show me another place on this site where there's a disparity that large. Show me another place on this site where we call people out for finding a good deal, and try to prevent them from getting equal value. If someone buys Max Payne 3 on Amazon for $30 right now, do we insist that they indicate where they got the game, and tell them not to post it if they didn't pay retail price? No, we welcome the giveaway, and congratulate them on finding a good deal.

The whole REASON that people split out the bundles is because it's arbitrage. You have something "worth" 9 points, but you can move it around and suddenly it's worth 75 points. If you start actually valuing the bundles more accurately with regards to the value of the items, I think you'll find far fewer people posting them individually. Now, I don't mean to say that the bundle should be the exact total price of the individual games; the other packs (Valve, Paradox, etc) have an innate discount as well.

So my suggestion is twofold.

First, while a bundle is going on, there should be a moratorium on ALL posts involving any games from those bundles (if you like, you could allow circumstances where the contributor has the item in their Steam Inventory, but that sounds like it couldn't potentially still be a lot of work). It may be over-reaching, but people can wait a couple weeks for Braid.

Second, after each bundle is concluded, the Steamgifts bundle value is set as the average of the total retail value and the average price paid for the bundle. An example for art history majors: Mega Bundle D has a total retail value of 88 dollars, and the average price paid for the bundle is 12 dollars. The SteamGifts value of the bundle is (88 + 12) / 2 = 100/2 = 50. I know 50 feels like a lot for something that people might've paid as little as 5 or 6 dollars for, but the VALUE of the games is what it is.

I think individual game key giveaways should be allowed, assuming that it is within the rules of the bundle and the person who purchased the bundle didn't get a separate DRM free copy.

However, there should be a limit imposed on it. Say, if you create a giveaway for a game in a bundle, then you can't create another giveaway for a game in the same bundle for a week. It wouldn't affect people who just wanted to give away one or two keys they didn't want, but it would discourage people from buying bundles to sell piece by piece to inflate their contributor value since it would take months to unload a whole bundle. Though that's not a perfect solution.

A large banner that pops up when you try to give away a bundle game that says something along the lines of "It's not permitted to submit bundle keys!".

Of course, I don't know how difficult this is to implement.

Here's my opinion: for any bundle game, you have to wait a month (or two, or three) to submit a giveaway for that game after the bundle ends.

The Easiest Solution: Once a game has been in a bundle, permanently tag that game

Once a game has been sold in a bundle with an individual key, that game should be tagged as a "past bundle"

Games that are tagged as "past bundle" can be discounted for both cost to enter, and contribution level of the donor. Games in bundles that were $1 min could be discounted more than games that were in say a "beat the minimum" offering. Over time the value could be raised if the game is not common anymore and demand for it is larger. Beta keys like Dota2 currently have fixed prices, these "past bundle" games would be the same way.

Also a filter could be setup on the listing of games to exclude "past bundle" games since that seems to be the main complaint of people who don't want to see these.

For people who purchase a past bundle at full price - tough luck. The game could have been bought as part of a bundle, so it's not worth full price anymore. If you are going to buy games for giveaways to get your contribution level up, don't buy "past bundle" games for full price. Buy Skyrim! :)

If you were to try to trade the game with someone else, they wouldn't care how the game was activated, they would care about how good of a game it is and how easy it is to get it (how many people have extra copies to trade). They also wouldn't care if you paid full price, bought it as part of the Steam Summer Sale, or got it in a bundle.

Another policy could be when a game is currently on sale in a bundle tag it as in a "active bundle" - temporarily hide it from the choices in the create new giveaway screen until the bundle ends (or leave the choice, but do an error check when they try to submit, that informs them it's currently part of a active bundle). When the bundle ends, tag it as a "past bundle".

Also you could put a cap on how many of the same "past bundle" game a single user could give away for credit. Like after 5 giveaways of the same "past bundle" game, you no longer will earn any credit for giving that game away.

I think this approach would accomplish a few things:

• Get people games they want, most people that want a game don't care if it's from a bundle they missed out on.

• Reward people for giving away keys, but value that reward much less than people who give away retail games. i.e. you can't just buy 100 bundles and be on the same level as someone who gives away Skyrim a few times.

• Give people a way to avoid the bundle keys completely (with the filter)

The trickiest part of this approach (besides the website changes :P ) is setting the prices / contribution credit for the "past bundle" games, but that seems like a much easier chore then trying to police giveaways.

Bundlers like Humble Bundle who have TOS against giving out individual keys have changed their distribution methods to tie all games to one key. Other bundlers that give out individual keys don't seem to have a problem with this:
Indie Gala wrote it on Twitter & Facebook: "Btw keys are unique per game in the bundle so you can gift the ones you already own."

Also, the problem with giving no feedback for bundle keys is that, even if they're discounted, it does still cost some money. The days of getting half a dozen Steam keys per one cent are over. Some bundles can cost $4-5 or more minimum. Humble's BTA prices are so high, they rival the bonus games' Steam prices. It's really not fair to make a seperate section for them that gives no feedback.

I don't understand why this thread keeps getting revived. It is very simple. It is a violation of the terms of service of those keys to redistribute them. Allowing them on this website puts both this community and the bundles themselves at risk. They cannot be allowed, and that needs to be vigilantly enforced.

Sometimes I buy a bundle and only want one game out of it. I have multiple unused individual game keys that I could be giving out.

Quick question ,

I bought the Be Mine 3 bundle and received an email with a giftable copy .(I bought it early )

I accidently clicked on the link in the email , and it added a second copy of the Steam keys to my Groupees account .

Even though it's a gift copy that came from Groupees , is it still not allowed to give these keys away on Steam Gifts ?

Thanks .

Edit -
The keys have "(gift from Jonny Cappuccino) " written beside them .

What about this:
When you are creating a giveaway, then you can only select the games you have in your inv currently from the dropdown meny. Then, to submit keys you would have to run it by a admin? Then, if someone posts a indie key, then it is insta ban? Harsh punishment is effective sometimes. Also, for people who want to giveaway keys should be allowed to do so, so what about having a checkbox that ou check for indiekeys? The giveaway would count for nothing and it would cost nothing to enter, but contribution and time etc. all the settings should be available.

Unless one check the box then it will have to be greenlit by an admin before it shows up on the SG page.

Any comments?