I thought it was pretty stupid when I was 14 and my mom wouldn't buy me Halo 4 or let me get GTA V for my birthday, even though all my other friends had it...
I'm 15 now, and it's still a stupid rule so I got a PC - She never actually knows what games I buy now.
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It's exactly this kind of behavior that makes young people so untrustworthy. You tell them no and they go behind your back and do the forbidden thing anyway. First it's video games, then alcohol, and finally drugs. Next thing you know, you're going to be strung out of your mind because of all the crack, and stealing prescription drugs from your grandparents.
Rather than thinking it's that it's stupid that they won't let you do [x], expand your mind and consider the reasons why. I think you'll find that rather than wanting to make you miserable or uncool, it's because they actually care for you and your mental development.
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Yeah, and you know why? Because parents mostly just say: 'NO! And if you ever speak of that again, I'll disown you!' (yes, I'm exaggerating), without explaining why.
If parents would simply bother explaining calmly and understandably why you can't do x or y, it would help build trust, and not defiance. Of course, you can't always work with logic against children, but simply forbidding stuff without reason often backfires.
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Think of it as a challenge to express the maturity you think you possess. Ask them in a reasonable—not whining or self-entitled—tone why they don't want you to have this game, and offer logical counterpoints for why they should. Most adults will begin treating you like an adult when you behave like one. In fact, at your age, most parents are probably waiting for you to. If you are behaving at all like a child from their point of view, they will not see a need to reason with you on a subject because how you'll respond is already a foregone conclusion. Ergo, they see no need to explain because they don't think you even want to listen.
When I was extremely young, a lady at the daycare hated dealing with me because I could out-argue her with logic.
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Why are you talking to me like I'm 14 or something? 'At your age'. Stop acting like you know me. You don't.
And that's exactly the kind of thinking which makes children defiant. Just take the example of alcohol. How in hell could a child (or a teenager, for the sake of the example) present arguments for it if he/she doesn't even have any experience with it? It's the parents, who know what they're talking about, who have to present their child with arguments against, not the other way.
My, aren't we smart? That contributes nothing to your arguments, in fact, if adults treat children according to their maturity, as you claimed, she should have loved conversing with you, right?
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"Why are you talking to me like I'm 14 or something? 'At your age'. Stop acting like you know me. You don't."
Probably because of the way you present your argument. It's close enough to the same tone as Veku's that I probably mistook you for him.
"And that's exactly the kind of thinking which makes children defiant. Just take the example of alcohol. How in hell could a child (or a teenager, for the sake of the example) present arguments for it if he/she doesn't even have any experience with it? It's the parents, who know what they're talking about, who have to present their child with arguments against, not the other way."
So your argument is that the responsibility to decide when the teenager is mature enough for such things lies entirely on the parent, yet the teenager is not responsible to show them that they are mature? Can a teenager not form informed based on what they have been exposed to thus far? In this day and age, is doing research really so hard? The point regarding alcohol is moot at any rate; in most civilized countries, supplying a minor with alcohol is a criminal offense, and likewise, minors caught with or under the influence of alcohol by a law enforcement officer can be issued a citation for Minor in Possession. They are told no because they don't want to have to pay a $100-200 fine and have their child with a criminal record. Things that should be 'for your own good' or 'common sense'—which, sadly doesn't apply to teenagers in a lot of cases—should not require an explanation.
"My, aren't we smart? That contributes nothing to your arguments, in fact, if adults treat children according to their maturity, as you claimed, she should have loved conversing with you, right?"
Look at things from her perspective. You're used to dealing with little kids who behave like little kids. Then you get one child who doesn't think like a child. It's going to be incredibly jarring. Especially when you then have to go back and forth, alternating between this child and the other children.
At any rate, that wasn't the point. The young woman in question wasn't much more than seventeen or eighteen and barely out of high school. She was mature, but of the fresh sort. Don't get me wrong, she loved having me around because of how behaved I was. Just when it came to something that didn't make sense to me, I made my case and she didn't know how to deal with a two-year-old who could argue his way out of nap-time. That I could make my point with cool logic unnerved her, but it was also something the her and the other care providers respected. The point I was attempting to make, and I admit that I failed to expound, was that adults respect you when you can reason with them.
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So... Since I play M for Mature games, I'm automatically gonna become addicted to drugs and stealing things?
Yeah, no, my parents raised me better than for me to fall into peer pressure or ever feel like trying it. My mom just follows rules blindly and since it says 18+ she doesn't bother to check why it's listed at 18+, just tells me no. I'm mature enough mentally to handle and play those types of games and I'm not gonna be influenced by them either ._.
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"So... Since I play M for Mature games, I'm automatically gonna become addicted to drugs and stealing things?"
I think you're smart enough to realize that this is not what I said at all. What I was discussing was the "Go behind your back because I was told no," behavior mentioned by you. Rebellious behavior starts with little things, such as defying parents wishes by going behind their backs. Then they're behaving like laws—liquor laws, for example—do not apply to them. Then of course comes the time when they try drugs just to spite their parents. Maybe they form an addiction. Guess what: addicts often steal from loved ones to fuel their addictions. I have just repeated what I have said to you without changing the underlying message; only the wording has changed.
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Well alrighty then, lets just agree on this since I don't feel like having a chain of replies.
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If the little kids are old enough to be on the internet without their parents' supervision, then they are old enough for all sorts of internet'a gloriously offensive, mature or otherwise innapropriate content.
It's no one else's responsibility but the parents', yet "the internet" is usually blamed.
Ridiculous time we're living in, I tell you...
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I don't think there is such a thing as 'old enough' to be on the internet, period. Regardless of how old you are, you are eventually going to find things that either disturb you, or introduce you to disturbing behavior/ideas.
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Haha, that's true.
However, I meant "being old enough" as in being capable of... how should I say... well, being capable of viewing all those things that disgust/disturb/scare you as a mature person with some amount of common sense (for example just leaving the page never to visit it again instead of, say, being traumatized by it for many years to come).
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Why should we care?
I personally think that games shouldn't have an age restriction. People should use their common sense and ask themselves: "Can I play this?"
Same goes to the parents. If they have some common sense, they'll know what their kids are playing and whether it's appropriate for them or not.
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if everybody just used their common sense... sigh...
Pray tell me - do you believe still in fairies and unicorns? ;P
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I agree with that.
Sadly, it isn't always like this.
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I disagre, first as a general rule I belive we should always care for anything related to kids and second athough I agree that games just as many midia can be of little harm to yong minds if couterbalanced by at least a "regular raising", I thing as a society we should with logic and common sense say that this or that might be inapropriate for the yong though it's ultimately for the parents to judge if it's so for their children or not.
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Idk, I grew up with Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Sonic and some RTS games. I think Im normal.
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Oh boy. You guys blame games/Internet and stuff. You know how it is really? Lack of appreciation from your environment - parents, friends, etc. NOT games. Games can't do any harm to "normal" kid. I played all kinds of games when I was young, like 10, 12. All kinds. True, they didn't have that suggestive graphics like today. Buts still shooting some poor bastard in the face and watching the head explode was fun. Yes - FUN. It was fun for me. Killing monsters and enemies in games was, and thank God, still IS fun(because if I stopped getting joy from gaming I'd be dead...). And I NEVER had any problems with law, I didn't get into fights when I was a kid. Later on, being a teenager of 16 to 19 I got some bruises, and bruised some morons. But that was because of hormones. Not red mist descending, the Internet taking over, hours of playing FPS games destroying my psyche. I had friends, I had caring parents, I felt appreciated, loved and I felt safe. And nothing I saw and did in some of the games I played as a kid transformed me into a monster.
So please stop that hate speech about games and games ONLY! making psychos out of kids. Instead review some cases of child/teenager violence around the world. When you read about such sad events you can see a pattern. Sad, lonely, bullied child, who's parents were either too busy working to care, or simply were a kind of people who should haven't been allowed to breed(sorry for harsh words, it's the Internet taking over :P). And if such child played video games? It was usually because only there he/she could find appreciation. And in such cases I agree - violent games can fuck up already fragile mind.
So, all things considered. Encourage kids to go out and meet people instead of spending time on facebook. Devote an hour or so from your oh-so-precious time for the kid you in your brillance spawned to this miserable world. Child won't raise itself I'm afraid(yeah, I like stating the obvious, because, obviously, people forget). If you're adult enough to make one, be adult enough to care for it. And don't sell anyone bullshit like "games make children do evil things," "games are evil." People are evil. If there's hell it's run by men. Not Satan. Men. omnious music playing(preferably from the movie "Omen")
Damn I need a smoke and I have none... Now THAT'S drama!
TL;DR?
It's never the exclusive fault of the Internet/games. It's we who fail children.
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Maybe I've missed a few posts here in the thread, but I've not seen anybody here blaming games for anything, or even providing hate speech therein. Most of what I've seen has been regarding the detached method of parenting, letting their children into whatever they find without moderation, or regarding whether or not those children are really mature enough for those games. People are talking about whether an M-rated game is really age-appropriate for an eight-year-old.
While it is certainly true that video games do not cause people to start Columbine or Virginia Tech-style shootings, you cannot deny that young people playing online games not quite in their age range start to develop certain anti-social behaviors. While it is not solely on the fault of the video games, for it has its roots in television, music, and their life experience as well, it doesn't contribute anything positive. Think about how common 'SWATing' is becoming. You don't see anybody sending SWAT in on a live broadcast of American Idol because the person they liked didn't get picked, yet it is apparently hilarious to find someone's name and address [if you don't already know them], and call the cops on them in the middle of a match, or after a match you've lost, so you can listen with glee while the cops kick down the door and hold him at gunpoint.
The last time I played TF2, I used my mic to request back-up at a control point, and was promptly told by someone, who couldn't be much older than eight, to "Shut the fuck up, you stupid nigger." People dislike little kids playing mature games, because they hear one bad act like that, and suddenly it's perfectly acceptable for them to start talking to others that way. All the while the parents sit back and do nothing while their 'precious angel' becomes a disrespectful little monster.
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I overcooked my reply. But I bet you understand how it is. When there's talk about kids and games someone's bound to hm... how to put it? "Drop the baby on the anvil?" In other words blame kids for everything, forgetting that in most, if not all cases, it's the matter of neglect.
About anti-social behaviors. Well, can't argue with that(as you kindly stated.... you're prophet or something?). But again, a word you used - moderation. Even though my dad wasn't big on gaming(he liked Fallout and Baldur's Gate most), he used to check on me from time to time and see what I play. And if I was spending too much time in front of our PC, he'd take me out somewhere. Or shoo me away, simply saying "time's up, go do something productive."(still haven't mastered that skill, to be honest)
Sooo... What was I talking about? Ah, let me quote you - "detached method of parenting"(u sure u's not insulating me, m8? or sumtin... sorry :D). That's what my rant was about. Mostly. To me. I failed... :(
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I played Bad Rats, now I'm a sadistic cat murderer... ):
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The age restrictions are ridiculous anyways. First of all, I'm against the banning of sexual content. I don't see any harm for a child to see porn or play porn games. Actually, the only reason they would do that is because you BAN that. I can ensure you that the majority of the kids would find porn/porn games boring to the bone, as long as you don't ban that from them. They won't turn rapists or prostitutes, the "worst" they can end up doing is masturbating. After all, I can't see the point on banning sexual content because it "ruins" children, while you see adults acting like s*x is an important factor of their life, or even their relatioship. Kids should be taught what it is for early, otherwise they will end up as the adults of today, and that's thanks to the banning of content that should be provided to them earlier.
As for the gore and blood-filled games, I'm not much against that either. It depends on the game itself. Games like Counter Strike could be played easily by 10+ years old kids with no affection. They don't have a story and all they have to do is kill. And yes, this isn't bad at all, except if you tell me that serving meat every day to children could make them go nuts, since you serve them dead beings. I never had a problem with that, and the only reason I would say "I wanna kill someone" is because they did something terrible and I want them to pay, not because the game affected me by any means.
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I absolutely support this post 100%. Even though it is never a guarantee, children can and will imitate things they've seen. Think back to all the times in the 90s and 00's when you'd hear about kids imitating TV wrestling. Heck, you still hear from time to time about kids seriously injuring each other because they thought it would be cool to clothesline one another. It would be and has been no different with porn. There's playing doctor, but then certain things are too far to be 'innocent childish curiosity'.
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The only age where kids are dumb enough to play a game, then go out and do stuff from the game, is like 6 yrs old and younger. At that age, it is definitely the parental responsibility to watch what the kid plays. Anything older than that, they should have the ability to make their own mistakes, with parents there to catch them before a really bad fall (of one kind or another). Ultimately, what I'm saying is it's not my dang problem if your kid wins an M rated game from me.
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I think it's parents responsibility to control what child is looking in the internet. No one's else.
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Might just be me, but I certainly wouldn't want a parent sending me angry messages because they just found out their child won Killing Floor from me, about how I have no right to be giving their child violent video games, and possibly accusing me of being a child predator attempting to lure their devil-spawn.
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Playing games like Doom and Resident Evil since I was very young, would not hurt a fly now at 25 years old, pretty sure it does nothing...
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I think to a degree it should matter. Allowing a 7 year old to play MK9 is just stupid... but a game like... Watch Dogs... Maybe? I don't know I'm on the fence. I was aloud as a kid to buy M rated games when I was 15 or so, but only after my parents looked at the back for what it contained, if it was massive amounts of swearing and gore, than nope... maybe case by case basis?
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It's the parent's responsibility, not yours at all. Even if you won't let a kid into a giveaway group, they will find a way to play the game some other way, like from a friend. And asking for people's photos/identification cards/Facebook profiles would be rather creepy, and there's loads of ways to get around it.
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I just want to say that when my friend was 8, he got GTA: San Andreas from his friend. When his parents saw it, they took the game and locked it to some box. He never saw his game again. (He asked many times about it.) Now his brother is 8 or 9 and is allowed to play GTA: V. I find it really weird because my 14 year old friend isn't allowed to play GTA: San Andreas (Yea, he still can't play it) but his way younger brother is allowed to play GTA: V. Parent's should't let them both play GTA games or should allow them to play them. Also, my friend's dad asked him if he wants GTA: IV. His dad thought that it is some racing game. My friend was stupid enough to say that it is similar to GTA: San Andreas, so he didn't get it :P
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Maybe they're aware of the Hot Coffee thing, which makes SA worse in their eyes? They might have also just thrown it away or sold it.
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The whole rating system should not be taken too seriously. It doesn't really matter what the kid is exposed to, what matters is the parenting methods the adults responsible of the child prefer to use. Some adults prefer to keep their child oblivious to the real world by censoring what they're exposed to, some just allow them to go ham but explain what certain things are and what not. As a human being that played Duke Nukem 3D at the age of four, I actually am not that far off different from someone that has been kept completely innocent to the topic. What was important was me being taught how to handle my own problems, how to co exist with the world, etc. I played GTA 3 and Vice City when I was 12-years-oldish and I knew, since forever, that the games are only interactive fiction and should not be a source for how to live my daily life.
With all that said, I think censorship is ridiculous. It hurts the kids none at all. Do I want to hear them use mics online? Hell no. Do I think they should be playing very violent or sexually "inappropriate" video games? Depends on the parents and how they choose to sit their kid down and explain what is really going on and what everything really means. What the parents choose to do must also act upon it. If they're going to censor their child's life, it is up to them to either monitor or flat out block sites that might help them get exposed to the undesirables... It is up to the parents to make sure their kids don't enter giveaways for games they don't want the kid to be playing.
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Unfortunately, responsibility for this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, a parent could argue that their underage child is getting exposed to violent games by people on this site and others. However, just the same, people who give away games can argue that it isn't their responsibility to check the age of the winners. As far as we're concerned, we're holding a drawing for a free game and it's not up to us to make sure that underage children aren't getting their hands on games like Manhunt.
By and long, it is the parents' responsibility to monitor what their children are exposed to on the internet. Many ISPs and browsers offer parental controls that will restrict access to certain websites to make this easier. Of course, kids are pretty ingenious and if they really want to get their hands on violent, gory video games, they'll find a way.
Personally, I don't believe it's our responsibility to make sure the giveaway winners are old enough to play the games we give. Some parents are pretty lenient when it comes to more mature games - my own parents never really concerned themselves with whether the games we were playing were violent, because they trusted us to know the difference between a game and the real world. Doesn't mean they liked a lot of the games my brother and I played as kids.
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I began playing games, when I was 6 yo and I played RTS and games like GTA. What it gave me? Now I can predict future and I do it rather successful. However, it has disadvantages, now I can't sleep normally, cause I'm just thinking about what happensand how it'll end.
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If anything it only draws attention to their existence.
Reminds me of back in the original run of the City of Heroes MMOG. They decided it would be a good idea to censor terms used by the pornography industry, even if they have common usage for other things. The effect was that it caused people to ask why certain things were getting censored, leading to them digging deeper, etc.
"Why is the word 'facial' censored?"
How could they explain this?
There was a martial arts hero named Flaming Fist that was auto-censored, so anyone with the censors turned on saw a guy called "Flaming ####" running around. Good times.
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It shouldn't be something for you to worry about. I doubt it's a major issue, I'm underage and there's plenty of people on Steam playing games for 18+ and everyone's parents seem to be fine with it.
Their parents, if they're that concerned, should be keeping track of what games they're playing.
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So, I was thinking, what are your opinions on underage kids winning games unsuited to their age?
Do you even think about it?
I've started thinking about this when I found out that a group on Steam, where I'm a mod, has underage kids in it. This group is a giveaway group and, as you know, a lot of games aren't suited for people of all ages.
I'm sure the same thing is happening here as there is no way to be certain about people's age without invading their privacy.
What could be done? Do you have any suggestions as to how one's age could be checked without invading their privacy by asking them to show their Facebook page or something like that?
Or do you think it is their parent's problem and not ours?
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