Why is everybody suddenly using the word "charity"?
I think the rules are working fine. I think people are just complaining because they can't get their CV high enough to fill their enormous egos.
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Rule doesn't actually say "must be in bundle", but now-a-days it's "must get bigger then 90% sale".
But yeah, I guess relying on US steam prices to count CV isn't the fairest idea ever - especially when you consider how many giveaways are from Russia, where game is few times cheaper anyway. But nothing will change until someone will want to make CV being counted more manually then just ripping price from Steam, with some lowest-price-ever in mind (Steam Enhanced got "lowest price" info, maybe it could be used somehow...).
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It needs to be completely dynamic, trawl through all digital game stores, as well as all key sites, ebay, trading sites, databases for physical stores, etc. Looks like we need to hire the NSA just to keep track of game values.
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And also track all free giveaways sites, like Tremor games
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Stop complaining about prices in Russia, unless you live here.
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-person with only bundle giveaways wants change to bundle value rules so they can increase their CV with only bundles-
Oh, this topic has been done plenty of times before, this isn't a new idea. Funny enough, you already pointed out discounts, give away those and your problem is solved.
Bundles have this rule because you can get stupid amounts of value for your dollar or whatever it cost. Discounts very rarely let you get more than 4 times your spent value. Bundles could be a hundred times of what you spent.
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Fair? Who said anything in life is fair?
With more and more games being bundled, I do agree a new system would be great, but not in favor of bundled games. A game on sale for 75% of w/e is not the same as getting 5 games for the price of 1-5$ and expecting to get 100+$ CV out of it.
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Without the "bundle rule", SG would be overflooded by bundle games, non-BTA in particular, which obliterates the very reason of existence for this site. Why would anyone need to keep trying to win a game, if they can just buy 4 of them just for one bucks? Discounts are a little bit different matter - prices of such games are not too low as for bundle games, and discounts don't usually last for weeks. Someone who missed a discount could try his/her luck in winning a particular game he or she would like to play. So I agree with McJobless, rules are working fine. BTW, nice avatar, OP. SZS Kafuka FTW
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Think about what would happen if you happened to have 3000 copies of Humble Bundle 3. It cost a penny ($0.01, that is) to buy and get Steam keys way back when it was around, and so if you happened to give $30 worth of them, you could exponentially increase your CV by $3000 and thus enter any CV giveaways you want. Measures like this have to be taken so the site is more fair for those who actually contribute quite a bit. ^_^
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has only bundle giveaways
complains about rules cause his CV isn't high
Yep, seems legit. @OP Give away non-bundled games and get over it.
inb4 Someone points out my giveaways. All my Metros were Steam Gifts, not from the THQ Bundle or shiz ;)
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As long as you don't complain about value, we don't mind. :P
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Feel free to make your own giveaway site and have any rules you want on there.
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I agree, but the fact is there is no fool proof system and changing anything will cause more confusion than fairness. Fact is, contributor system shouldn't be relevant. You either want to give away a game or you don't. You shouldn't have any expectations in getting anything in return. Unfortunately, most people will not agree and want to be allowed into the super awesome giveaways, but those people are idiots. The others just want to boost their penis size with contributor value... which is fine but also silly in my eyelids.
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the rules are rules, just giveaway not-bundle games and you'll get CV and you can give bundle games to your friends or sell it, at least you'll get something.
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This thread reminds me that. Next person who wants to get more games (higher contribution - more giveaways with less entries). Giving away a few 5$ games isn't a great expense and don't say anything like "in my country we earn less than in you in yours".
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I think it'd be more fair to simply divide the minimum cost of a bundle by the number of games in it, and give that as contributor value. So you'd get a handful of cents, but you'd get something. It's not like bundles are free either, so capping them to 30$ worth is a little counter-intuitive.
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Think about how much work the SteamGifts staff would need to do to keep track of the price of every single bundle. Plus the code required to implement it. Don't forget about bundles with multiple tiers, like BTA on humble bundles. How would you grab the BTA price for a humble bundle ?
The $30 cap is simpler to implement.
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Sure it'd be a little more complex. You'd have to calculate them all individually or something, by using the minimum value of the bundle divided by the amount of games in it. But it's still much more in the spirit of Steamgifts than arbitrarily capping the contributor value. Plus, there's always the grey zone about what is a bundle and what isn't... Valve's Complete Collection is a bundle, and yet we get full contributor value out of the games in it. And in term of code, I'm not sure it's as complex as calculating a certain % of your non-bundled games, so you can get that value max out of your bundle-giveaways, in addition for staff to actually hunt and mark games as being in a bundle, as they already do that. So overall, I'm not sure it'd be that much more complex to give a couple of cents' value to bundled games...
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There is no "arbitrary cap". As long as you give enough non-bundled games the amount of CV you can get from bundled games is unlimited.
You should understand how the system works before making incorrect statements.
Also, "Valve's Complete Collection is a bundle, and yet we get full contributor value out of the games in it."
Really?
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My statement is incorrect? My understanding of the rules is poor? Maybe you jumped a little fast there, M. Support. Do explain to me how 30$ isn't arbitrary then, when it could be 25$, or 35$, and so on? That amount is totally arbitrary. The thing is, it's still weird you have to give away non-bundled games to get value out of bundled ones. They're still games, and they got paid for. Sure I never even hinted towards getting full contribution-value out of those games. But the current system isn't even close to being intuitive, meaning there are probably better options.
As for the Valve bundle, it was an exaggerated example, of course. What's the difference between this and let's say, Paradox Game Collection? Between Paradox Games and Daedelic Collection? The one between Daedelic Collection and Weekly Daedelic Humble? They're all pretty much equal one to another (step by step), yet suddenly it goes on Humble so they get crappy contribution values (I get that part actually and I agree with the current system for reduced bundle value), but they also get a very stringent new condition being that said crappy value is accessible only if you give away another game which must not be on a certain list. And you already have to draw the line somewhere to create that list, as everyone's definition of bundles can vary. Amazon has amazing bundles with triple A games, yet they weirdly aren't on the bundle list...
So the whole thing is much more complex and arbitrary than one might think by reading the rules. And unless people talk about it, it won't change. And maybe it should, as is proven by the quantities of threads on the topic.
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Meh, I have given away over 100 bundled games here. You know how much that must have costed me? Probably about 10-20 euro. So is it bad I get only 30 CV for that (actually, even more because of the non-bundled games I gave away).
No, definitely not.
Yes, I could have gotten more CV for that money, but yes, I should given away non-bundled games than (which to be fair, bundled games usually get flooded here, non bundled, not so much, which also does keep some diversity by the people who prefer the CV for it).
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"[...] suddenly it goes on Humble so they get crappy contribution values [...] but they also get a very stringent new condition being that said crappy value is accessible only if you give away another game which must not be on a certain list."
If you give games that are not on said certain list the contribution value for games that are on that list won't be crappy, but full value.
As for your suggestion to make bundle games count for "a handful of cents" - let's make it 50 cents for easy calculations; you would have to give away 60 bundle games to reach the current cap. I really don't think there are many users who would see their contribution value increase if this was implemented.
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It was more an exaggeration of what is a bundle. You get amazing bundles on Steam, on Amazon, on other sites, and incidentally, on sites such as Humble Bundle, Bundle Stars, and you know the rest. Is the requirement for a game to be on the bundle list to come from a site with "bundle" in their names? Surely I jest here, but a line has to be drawn. And that's exactly why some people (like me), think bundled games of all kinds should have a diminished contributor value, but that never implies any kind of limit of any sort... And I think that's what people are really complaining about.
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Well, actually, now that you mention it. If you give away a Steam bundle, you will get full CV for it. Same with any of the other bundles (you know, you can give away a complete bundle, and get the full $1 CV for it), so in that regard, it is exactly the same to be honest.
Only because a Steam bundle does not let you split the games, means they don't have to be on the bundle list.
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Every bundled game = 0.2 CV points
(so if you bought a bundle for $1 with 5 games in it, that would get you 1 full CV point)
Doesn't matter if it's bta or if the bundle has 4 or 8 games.
Very simple. No one needs to count anything.
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The current rule is much better. If you give out bundles after you hit $30 with bundles, you get bonus for non-bundled games you give out. Much much better than getting $20 with 100 bundled games. That's $50 for $20.
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I kinda like your positivism, but that's how it works only if 80% of the games you give are non-bundled. Otherwise you really just are stuck with a system that blocks you at a lower contribution value because it doesn't recognize that bundled games are games that have a value (even if only a couple of cents). I understand the line of thoughts behind the reasoning, but I'm pretty sure it'd be more fair to just let people give their bundles as they like. I mean, why stop them from giving away, so long as contributor value isn't abused in any way? If you only get a handful of cents per game (I'm totally against Trains abuse, if you know what I mean), you can still pay hundreds of dollars and make hundred of happy souls. I don't see how this is abuse.
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I see your point. But aren't all the arguments about bundled games and the cv cap related to people not being able to enter the over 30.1 cv giveaways? It could feel fair if 0.2, lower or higher, is added to cv when the game is a bundled one but the same complains will still appear when people start adding more to the required cv. For my not-spinning well brain, changing something when there is a danger of more problems happening is not such a good idea. (What's a Trains abuse? Giving out Train Simulators?)
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What you speak of is a problem related to the fundamentals of CV, like if there should be CV or not. I guess there are some who complain because they can't reach over 25-30$ with bundles only, and I think they are both right and wrong (most of them are probably just eager to leech or something, but their intention is besides the point). I for one think there should be CV, as there are advantages to the method. But I'm not sure I see how it would create more problems, as you would actually get rid of all those who complain about the cap and it would maintain the basic idea behind CV: giving advantages to those who give away. It's not like you can get rich fast with bundled-games worth something like 10-20 cents each anyway (or at least, it's not more advantageous that way than with non-bundled games).
As for the Train-abuse thing, there was this one train simulator, last winter, who had a huge discount (something like 90% on a 30-50$ range game). Steamgifts got overflooded by those, even moer than with the usual bundles, because people really wanted the huge boost in contributor value.
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You act like the current limit prevents people from giving away. It doesn't. It merely prevents them from trying to farm value through such a low cost method. Hell, I gave away more than 40 bundle games for my birthday last month, got a spike on my stats page of nearly $1000. I sure as heck don't expect or demand that value, or even a fraction of it, since I spent maybe $15 on the lot.
Buying non bundle games is easy, and isn't massively discounted.
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I might be in the minority here, but I actually believe that your massive giveaways were niceentitle you to 15$ contribution value or something (I took your example). That's my whole point actually. I believe SG could be adapted so that bundled games give contribution values closer to the actual paid price: a couple of cents per game, if we make the hypothesis that you paid minimum price for the bundles. It's not like you can abuse that: try giving away games worth 1$ total for which you paid 1$: you really have a poor exchange rate to contributor value (same as full-price non-bundled games). And yet you get the CV candy for giving away games. Seems fair to me at least, and there's no "intense" mathematical calculations and non-intuitive rules for CV that half the new-people around don't understand.
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The trouble to get it accurate would require huge amounts of on going management. The current method isn't liked by some people (many of them with only bundle games, strangely enough), but its simple and works. There is no need to 'fix' it.
If a person can buy a bundle, I see little reason they can't buy games elsewhere that aren't bundled. PayPal, used by most bundle sites, is also used by most other sites with Steam games that haven't been bundled. Credit card purchases on Humble Bundle? Those work elsewhere as well. Another payment method? Ask here, users could help direct them to sites they can use.
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Well, I believe the bundled rules are totally fair. $1 for 4 games isn't the same thing compared to paying 4.99 for a 19.99 game with 75% discount. I really don't get why this bothers you. Just give out something that's on discount. People will LOVE it.
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WHERE SHALL THE LINE BE DRAWN-ETH
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Most of us are not Charity organisations with infinite CASH.
What. are. you. talking. about??? First, who said you have to give anything? Second, if you do, who said you have to boost your CV? Third, even if you do, who said you have to race against anyone else? Fourth, do you know what a charity organisation is, and how do they get the funds? Never heard of infinite cash, you crybaby.
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Still more games to win. More Entries for you . So i dont know why complain?
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those BASTARDS, giving away games that they bought on discount, they should rot in hell... pay the full price or don't even try, right?...
WRONG
also, yeah, this is pretty much the same topic as always.
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replace "on discount" with "in bundles" and for some inane reason the answer is "CORRECT"
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Giving away games on steamgifts should result in permaban! Right? Don't think so.
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Nope, it is not.
Considering you have been here for over a year, I suppose you do know that being actually in a huge discount, gets a game on the bundle list.
And if you'd feel like actually CV farming with borderline GA's, you will no doubt end up on some of the blacklists the more generous gifters use.
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same topic as always, maybe even more stupid because you think your ideas are different/better.
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the idea of "giving away" a game is to give it away out of the kindness of your heart... not for CV
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I think limiting the bundle-acquired games' CV is fine, but there shouldn't be a cap, not like this at any rate.
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Yes there should. Anything other than a hard cap means people will still get too much from bundle games. There are other cheap games you people can buy.
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I know the rule about bundle games, that you cant get more than 30$ etc etc etc.
But if you think about it deeply, you will notice that 99% or even more giveaways here are made only from DISCOUNTS as well and all the contributors getting always the whole amount for that games. I know that The rules are The rules and u cant brake them bla bla bla. That is not 100% fair, everyone trying to pay less for the games and get the whole VALUE. Most of us are not Charity organisations with infinite CASH. The idea is brilliant but I think we should change some of the rules.
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