Could have been avoided, but it justified regardless
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If I have a gun, and a dog lunges at me, the dog is getting shot. Being a police officer or not doesn't really change the situation.
They should have demanded the owner secure the dog better before placing him under arrest, but that's just hindsight and all...
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One thing about that post though is he is acting like the guy sent his Dog after the cops, Which he didn't. He put the dog in his car, then got arrested without personally causing problems.
Now, I can understand why the Cop shot the dog, It was attacking him, and that was the only way he thought he could react. Though, Personally, I would of reacted a lot different, There were plenty of Cops there that could of subdued the dog, and I'm sure one of them had a taser gun on them.
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If you'd have been in this situation you would have reacted exactly the same. No one in their right mind would wait for a dog to bit their hand off hoping that a guy next to you has a taser gun and is fast enough to use it.
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Would do exactly the same in situation like this. If I had a gun, of course.
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The guy should of stayed away from the scene further, and not said a word. The dog suffered from the man's ignorance, and paid the price.
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The owner was an idiot. The police were only doing their jobs. Check this video out. It compares three different dogs' bites, one of which is a rottweiler, and the rottweiler has got the stronger pull force.
If a Rottweiler was charging me with harmful intent, I'd have shot it too. Not once but twice, because I wouldn't want my arm or face ripped off. (And this is coming from a dog owner.)
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It could have been worse. It could have been a Wroughtweiler.
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C'mon, this is disgrace. Police was doing their intervention, ok. But black nigga could film it. It was his right. And that wasn't aggressive rottweiler, dog was quite passive. However, he could at least finish it off.
All the problem is a result of police overreacting.
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Since you decided to start this thread, you need to link the background video too.
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Situations like this happen far too often. This guy was in a car, which changes things from when you are on your own property.
Two situations here lately where cops have killed dogs in similar fits of aggression (the dog). Both times here, though, the police were approaching the door of the owner of the property (once to serve a warrant, once to answer a call) and the dog came from the backyard.
How do y'all feel about the dog approaching police on private property?
In one of the cases here, the cops had responded to a call at the wrong house. So they killed the neighbor's dog (happened to be a blue heeler that time).
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Well, the argument from the owner (alone at the time) was that the dog wasn't attacking, but was simply coming around the front yard (rapidly) to find out what the noise was about. They were playing frisbee in the backyard (this was confirmed by a neighbor that had spoken with them just previously).
Interesting perspective, too.
I'm not really weighing in either way, but you're saying that police officers trespassing on private property while answering a call to the wrong address have the right to kill any animal they feel threatened by at any time?
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First of all policemen approaching the front door is hardly trespassing.
I don't know the concrete situation you're describing, so I won't judge it.
In general I think if a dog attacks anybody unprovokedly, in a way that might result in considerable damage, the attacked person has the right of self-defence and the priority in this situation isn't on the dog's well being, as harsh as it may sound.
Of course there is an argument to be made about if a situation is dangerous enough to warrant (deadly) force.
Edit: I'll answer your second post here for the sake of order:
I never said anything of that like. Of course defending against burglars is legit, who the hell would argue otherwise?
The way things went in the case you described may or may not have been justified, I couldn't tell with the little information I have. In the video this thread is about the police officers' actions were 100% justified, though.
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How is it that policemen having no warrant and no right to be on your property isn't trespassing?
Again, I'll ask you for clarification. Do you think there is any time that it is warranted for a dog to protect you or your property from trespassing or other crimes?
So it's okay for someone to come into your yard, or home, or bedroom, and a dog should never attack that person until they make a move to what? Hurt? Kill? What is your measure of what is a provocation?
edit: Just saw your edit. :)
I wasn't sure what you were arguing in regard to provocation. Again, where do you draw that line? What about someone yelling at you and banging on your door? Is that fair provocation for an animal defense? At what point should you be required to control your own animal on your own property, and under what duress?
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Depending on the situation, that distinction (between friend or foe) can be tough for a dog to discern. :)
A dog with no history of aggression coming around the front yard quickly to investigate a stranger in the front yard might normally be greeted by a smile and an attempt to pet the dog. If the person pulls a gun and yells, there is a much higher probability that the dog might get aggressive, IME.
In fact, a burglar might know that he'll have better luck giving a dog a treat and a pat. Some cops haven't quite figured that out yet. :)
I also realize that every single situation is different. But also realize (perhaps anecdotally) that cop->dog shooting seem to be on the upswing.
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You're right. You argued that if your dog acts aggressively it "doesn't matter where it happens."
My position was questioning that self-proclaimed normative standard when personal property and private abodes were involved.
My perspective is that suddenly "aggressive behavior" from an animal at home might become much more gray. Especially when presented with seemingly aggressive humans that it doesn't know and who have no right to be there.
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To add...there is also little way of knowing whether a person has a history of aggression if you don't know them and they are on your property without notice. :)
However, in the case of both dogs and humans, there are certainly telltale signs to distinguish between excitement and aggression. Fear and adrenaline from both species can cloud the ability to be able to process those signs, unfortunately.
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To clarify, also, that means that anyone trespassing on your private property should never be attacked by your dog? Is that correct in your view?
What, in your view, constitutes provocation? Is entering a window or door of your home provocation? Wielding a weapon? Physically striking the owner? Where does one end and another begin at your own home and in your own yard?
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Did you even watch the video? He's blaring music out of his car, gets out to heckle the cops, but leaves the music on. The cops tell him multiple times to turn down the music because they are talking over a bullhorn with an armed robbery suspect and they can't hear things. After a couple of minutes talking with the guy, they decide to detain him for 1) breaking city ordinance b/c music is too loud 2) interfering with a police operation by blasting music loudly enough that they can't hear the armed robbery situation. He puts the dog in the car but doesnt roll up the windows, so the dog jumps out, lunges at the cop TWICE before he gets shot.
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Not talking about this situation. Using it as a springboard for other similar situations.
My personal opinion is that both parties could've handled themselves better in regard to the OP. But that's usually how I feel. Many times adrenaline takes over after just one attempt at dissolving a situation.
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Okay, I was just going over your very first paragraph, where you state "This guy was in a car,"
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Yes. That was in reference to the OP. But the second clause of the sentence details a differentiation between the two situations. ;)
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La verdad es que no creo que este sea el lugar de poner este tipo de cosas, pero de todas formas diré lo que pienso.
El policía disparó en defensa propia lo que no veo mal, yo haría lo mismo si un perro como ese intentara atacarme. Lo que me jode es que lo dejaran sufriendo de esa forma después de dispararle.
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Yo creo que en esa situación, en caliente, hubiese actuado de igual forma, aunque no sé si sería capaz de dispararle, pero se supone que un policía está entrenado para pensar en frío en situaciones así. Me da la impresión de que podrían haber hecho que el dueño tranquilizase al perro y volverlo a meter en el coche.
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Lo mismo pienso, si a mi me pasa eso y en ese momento tengo una pistola, en lo único que pienso es en defender mi vida. Lo que tu dices también es verdad, podrían haberle quitado las esposas un momento al dueño para que tranquilizara al perro y así se podrían haber ahorrado eso que le han hecho al pobre perro, que solo quería defender a su amo.
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As an animal lover it tears me apart to see the poor dog suffer. This situation could have been prevented if one of the camera men went over to the dog and secured it proberly. Instead of saying a lot of bs. The cops could also put a last bullet in the poor dogs head, just to make it's pain stop. It makes me really angry that the situation wasen't handled proberly.
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You could take it's collar. It didn't look higly aggressive. It looked more like it would protec it's master. There is a huge difference. If it was really aggressive it would charge, not wander around and than bite. Ofc if the dog was really aggressive i wouldn't have go secured it. Even after it jumped out, the cops could have made a warning shot before actually shooting the dog. Most dogs flee when they hear gun shots.
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looked like and to be in place of police officer on whom dog jumped on is kinda makes difference...
there was hostage situation and i bet all policemen were in adrenalline situation with all these nerves about hostage...
i think mistake was try to catch dog who was barking on officers, tho you can't really say which action would be best in this situaion...
i think, warning shot wouldn't be final solution since rottweiler is moslty guard dog so it won't just flee from place leaving it's owner without protection ^^
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+1 for reasonable explanation here. No parties involved (including dog) were acting with their entire brains (not calling anyone brainless, but clarifying that reasoning and ability to think of multiple solutions was shut down by core instincts on all parts).
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It seems they wanted man to secure the dog, but they didn't make sure of it. The animal doesn't have conscience of aggression or violence, and in situations where the owner is put in distress there is a chance that the animal will attack to defend his owner. It's action by instinct and predictable.
Non-lethal such as pepper spray would most likely have done the trick to scare the dog away. In police operations you see officers point their gun at dogs. The dog doesn't have the conscience that a lethal weapon is pointed towards him but just the gesture of potential aggression towards the animal may scare it away or hold him off. Firing a weapon towards someone or something should be the last resort, there is always a risk involved (you might miss, hit someone else, or a ricochet, etc).
While the action could be justified it's totally avoidable, first by the owner and finally by the police who had the upper hand and the power to kill.
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so let me get this straight.
this dog jumps aggresively onto a police officer because the owner did not keep his dog down, aubecse of this, a police officer who was clearly in a tense situation with a dog who was probably going to attack him, responded with brutal force, and now everyone is against the officer because well, fuck the police.
seriously guys, you are overreacting, sure the police officer could have sprayed pepper onto the dog, hit him, but the owner could have also calmed and keep the dog away, plus the police officer had already the beast into him, he had no time to think so he shot him, the only possible thing to keep the dog away fast, and probably kept shooting because he was scared.
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and this is how a cop kills an unarmed protester here
my thoughts? the dog owner was lucky his dog took the bullet this time, not him
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that guy in the video is dead btw he was shot in the head.. And the court released the cop saying it was an act of self defense...
the police is full of them and police violence against anyone protesting the government is supported by the government itself here.
another guy who was just going back to his home from work he was mistaken to be a potester, 5 cops beat him to death, then gauged one of his eyes out, threw him into fire and left him to death.. now he looks like this
a lot of people were shot by tear gas shells, using the gas greande throwers as guns aiming them at people's heads.. some of them took permanent brain damage, some lost their eyes.
and no I don't trust cops in most cases they just follow the orders even if that means to kill innocents
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The dog isn't trained good, he must jump and bite them right at the start when they don't ready, but he is just barking, and ofc the dog when see something in the hand start attacking. The police can prevent this and guy isn't really smart. In Russia we can make some photos or video of our police without the problem. Why police arrested only this guy? near other two guys with cameras.
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ранее пояснили за что полицейские начали задерживать того типа:
Not necessarily arrested, just justifiably detained for interfering with a police operation. Please watch the background video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffwxaTpJTyI) to understand. The police asked him numerous times to turn down the volume of his music because he was interfering with a negotiation during a hostage situation.
Did you even watch the video? He's blaring music out of his car, gets out to heckle the cops, but leaves the music on. The cops tell him multiple times to turn down the music because they are talking over a bullhorn with an armed robbery suspect and they can't hear things. After a couple of minutes talking with the guy, they decide to detain him for 1) breaking city ordinance b/c music is too loud 2) interfering with a police operation by blasting music loudly enough that they can't hear the armed robbery situation. He puts the dog in the car but doesnt roll up the windows, so the dog jumps out, lunges at the cop TWICE before he gets shot.
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They arrested him because he wouldn't turn down his car stereo and he was interfering with an hostage situation. Instead of complying he cursed at them.
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Aw poor dog :( fuck the police he should get shot 4 times by the owner or dog D:<
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Warning: In case you are oversensitive towards animals and/or easily scarred you might not want to watch this video.
Video
So to sum up a bunch of police officers are attacked by a ¿Rottweiler? while arresting its owner and one of the cops shoots it down when it leaps towards him.
Do you think that killing the dog could be justified in this case? Is there any rule or law in your country concerning the way this dangerous species should be handled?
In my opinion the only thing that could have been improved is that the policeman should have finished off the dog so it would not suffer anymore and even if I'm always against any kind of violence I think that in this case it was more than justified considering that the presence of a exalted dog was severely threatening the integrity of everyone around.
What are your thoughts?
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