Do you care if someone you trade with resells your games for profit?
As a general rule, if I give a gift to someone, it then belongs to him and he may do whatever he likes with it. That being said, illegal activity bothers me. I believe people should be trying to follow the law. so deliberate law-breaking really rubs me the wrong way. As for lying and deceit, that bothers me a lot, and I avoid such people whenever possible.
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Not your business.
If he doesn't acquire what he sells thru fraudulent means, it's not your or anyone else's business.
People butting into others' lives are horrible.
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If you believe me or not - trading has been very good in most of the cases for me, just like you explained in your last paragraph. Barter is a much better place for trading than Steamgifts - easy comparison of tradables / wishlists, easy accepting / declining of offers, fast process, almost no time wasted and trading a lot with the same people you already traded with before.
Still, I'm separating myself from trading and going on distance (as stated in my opening post). For several reasons, some heavily discussed in this topic :)
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I'm retired from trading but when I traded I traded only and always games/games.
I never put games up for Paypal, keys and other steam currency. What the traders did after we traded that's the responsibility of them but most just activated the games to their Steam account.
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Aren't subjective things great topics for discussion then? Discussing whether 2 + 2 should equal 4 is a lot less interesting. ;-)
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So what? Resellers are everywhere. You are angry because he sold some games for more profit than you got? Then try to sell your games for more the next time. I really don't understand why you even care about this. Never heard that something like this is illegal. Even if it's illegal, as you say, then it's a shitty "law". I mean, ok, people that lie about a game's price and buy it from you for cheap, are actually shitheads. But did he lie to you about its real price? If not, then what's your problem? There are also many people that used to buy games from me during the sales and then reselling them after the sales. Should I be angry with them? Nope, that's trading. Just like many key sites do too.
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Hmm...I didn't even realize that HB's TOS seems to indicate we can't trade our games. "We do not allow selling or redistributing keys from your purchases." I guess "redistributing" means trading? So then-- I guess we can't trade them either. That sucks, because like you I like to trade game for game. On occasion I will trade for cards, but I guess that is closer to selling.
But as far as your original question, in the past when I've traded games, I don't care what they do with them. It's not like I'm trading weapons that they can resell to terrorists...it's just games. If they can make a profit, good for them. For me it's not worth the time to try to get a better "price."
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I honestly would not care if they resold the games I traded with them, but every game that I get from trading I play for myself because I don't really do trading for profits
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If you willingly traded your game to someone and got what you wanted for it.. it's basically none of your business at that point what that other person does with said game.
I'm not sure what is making you so furious about it.. jealous he managed to make profit on the game you traded?
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I have answered this question before but decided to remove the game titles, to not engage key selling. Hope you understand.
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It is illegal to resell bundle keys
Im pretty sure European Court stated that its allowed to Sell / Retrade your Digital Games.
Even if it would not be, you had broken the Rule yourself by Trading / Selling the Game Key to the Person.
My 2 cents: Its nobodys Business what someoen does with a Key he traded for. Its not his fault if he can make more Profit with a Game then you where able to.
I myself dont trade for Game Keys to resell / trade them. Since i dont like to bother with them when i dont know how legit they are.
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Yeah, i wouldn't sell keys/links on any commercial site, but privately - why not, if people are willing to buy, give em'.
Have sold quite some steam gifts on g2a - which is surprisingly safe, effortless and lucrative on occasion ...
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I think I'd make a terrible trader. While I try to see the best in people, business is business and for every good person out there, there's probably two more that do anything they can to screw me out of my possessions - so I never really got into trading.
That, and I'm not sure how profitable trading is - but I'm probably naive in saying that it's not that much. I could probably pick up a minimum wage job and walk away with more money. Trading for profit just doesn't seem worth it.
But yeah, I'm not very fond of that sort of behavior. Verbally attacking you makes it all the more worse.
Thank you for the thread. It was a good read :)
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Trading can be very satisfying and has been satisfying to me. If you missed a bundle and don't have the chance anymore to get a certain game for its bundle value or if you don't want to buy a bundle because it only contains 1 out of 10 games you actually want.. To some its not worth the effort, I met a lot of great people through trading and ways to split bundles with them. It's a process between 2 people and can either be focussed a lot on communication or a quick, uncomplicated exchange. My experiences :) And when someone destroys all those positive associations, you just don't feel the same anymore. Might only be for the moment, since I went through a lot of stress with this user. I won't let stuff like that get too close to me anymore is what I learnt.
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I probably edited my post as you were writing that comment, since I wrote the original comment in a hurry.
I've never been a good people person, so I probably won't be able to have experiences similar to yours.
Yeah, I can see trading for games you want/missing games in your collection, but I don't really see trading for profit.
Glad you were able to take this in a positive way. Good luck with your future trades :)
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Haha I'm on the go right now too and replying from my phone, which makes answering very very slow. I signed up for Steam in January 2015, I missed the winter sale and some great bundles. I had to learn about bundled, sales etc. first and since I'm interested in many different games and wanted to build up my library, trading was a really good thing. I had a lot to catch up on, so to speak. It escalated quickly though, if I look at my library now XD
Wish you a great weekend, thank you for your contribution.
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You made a trade, what he does with the stuff he received from you is his business, not yours.
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If I am trading a key I do not care what the other guy does with it after I give it to him.
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Strictly speaking, trading game keys from bundles is against their ToS in general, profit or no profit.
As for your problem, OP… I hate to be the one breaking it to you, but what you described is called capitalism. And the entire Western civilisation is built upon this practise. (Heck, most of the Eastern too now…) This is what makes our economy work, for the most part.
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Many users already pointed out that trading is not allowed which is a) new to me (you learn every day!) and b) my definition of trading differs to what others define it as. I am not a "sales / business / economy" person and never want to be, so some things are new to me.
BUT, and it is a huge "but".. This is about games. It's entertainment, it's for the fun. I never liked the idea of people trading for profit. It's about joy and sharing great games, which is why I am feeling more and more satisfaction in just giving all of games away instead of trading for something that would make me happy, too. Even though I had very great moments with trading and traders as well.
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Well, to you, they are games. But for many people, they are just products. We can also use this analogy for toys too, so… well, again, capitalism. You can turn pretty much anything into a product, regardless of its original intents.
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ironically, these games were made by the devs for profit in the first place. ^^
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Or to make no profit and then complain that the world is unjust cough Tale of Tales cough
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oh, did i miss something? i don't even know the tale of Tale of Tales. ^^ have to look that up.
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As others pointed out: for you, it's about entertainment and fun, for others, it's bussiness. Yeah, it sucks if someone lies to you about what they're gonna do with it, but you did agree with the trade. And once you agree and you proceed to trade, it really is non of your business anymore. The product is now rightfully theirs to do with as they see fit. If they want to play it, fine. If they want to make profit from it, fine.
Also, you don't need to be a business person to understand the very basic concepts of capitalism. If you get something in return for something else, you are basicly selling it. In the same logic, if you get money from it, you're also just trading (trading money for a product).
Also, I saw you point out the ToS of the bundle sites. But if they got it from you or someone else and not directly from the bundle sites, they have nothing to do with their ToS, since they never agreed to it or ever directly got involved with them.
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the only bad thing i can see with this story is, that the guy lied to you. he really shouldn't do that. but i generally have no problem with people reselling my bundle games.
yes, bundle sites generally prohibit reselling. but i think that mostly addresses professional companies, not the small guy who trades/sells his leftovers on SG. and where is the difference between selling/trading on SG and selling on G2A or Kinguin? all you get there is wallet, so you can buy some games for yourself. you can't even cash out (correct me if i am wrong here). i would even argue it's good for the customers. not everybody knows trading sites like SG. G2A&Co are market places with a big customer base. so whoever missed a bundle can still get the game he wants relatively cheap there. how is that a bad thing? seems to me like a win-win situation.
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Yup your right with kinguin - have never sold there but heard about it ... but on g2a you can choose to cash out without any ado.
For safety and legitimacy i've never sold anything but steam-gifts there - and its most surprisingly safe and works effortlessly well ... while its likely not worth the effort unless its a good selling game acquired in quantity or cheaply. (Had been ripped off once on ebay before as they have no rules for digital items + private sellers, and i was a baboon not to look that up beforehand).
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As long as you're not directly lying about your intentions, I see nothing wrong with reselling keys or gifts.
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You rarely have strong feelings when it concerns matters not involving what's in my pants, xarahoney <3
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'# < hashtag for maximized attention-whoring >
Let me sum up your logic-defying/kinda-insulting and unintentional hypocritical wash of a post:
- his ethics be bad, bcuz he's doing it to resell the game (= financial gain and business)
- yous ethics be good, bcuz you're doing it for fun and for a game (= still financial gain and business)
How he lied to you about what specifically we can't even see, nor have you had a clear set of rules that would
unmistakably state "i trade only with people who don't resell games" - if he lied to you, it was probably because it made
him feel uncomfortable ... as you ill-informed-user didn't even know the value and for what it might be used for.
Besides, the law of commerce not only varies from country to country ... heck even county, but is also based
around a wash of exploitable cutthroat regulations that are mostly useful to big fish - while lastly might
not even be legitimate and uphold in court when brought to that instance.
So all traders who resell gifts/keys/items somewhere for monetary units have bad ethics and break the law because its:
quote: "It is about ethics, about rights and about justice." - but trading those for other games is still alright somehow.
^ Which obviously applies globally, doesn't differ, everyone agrees and solemnly swears upon . . .
Now, where is your concrete proof, that he really re-sold the game you willingly traded? Isn't it it bad ethics to assume
something like that without proof? And even if, how would that change anything - if you're uncomfortable that someone
might sell games you've traded you should've made it clear to begin with or avoided trading altogether,
since else its out of your control.
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In your 'wash of a post', you're really washing. I definitely know the kind of lying complained about here, and yeah, it's lying. For example, answering a direct question about the source of something in a false and untrue way, or pretending one forgot where a game acquired just a day ago was acquired from. That's lying.
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If that is the case he is lying - but that is not the (only) issue anymore.
This a public forum and posting a thread about personal experience(s) and leaning upon greater values and legislation
"ethics, rights and justice" isn't just personal anymore ... especially if you go the length to discredit people on the way,
while being deeply entangled in the issue itself.
The real issue here is almost all of those resellers are LYING. It is illegal to resell bundle keys. They have second accounts to hide their identity and they lie right into your face. They use you to make profit, even if you think you did a good trade. I don't want to support this grey market stuff anymore and nasty traders not being honest but leaving with a good reputation.
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When I sell a guy my old car before shopping for a new one, I don't ask him if he's going to rob a bank with it, and I certainly don't follow him around for a week to be sure he's not breaking traffic laws. It's no longer my concern what is done with the vehicle once he owns it.
Once the trade is done and agreed upon, the new owner is free to do as he wishes with the spoils. I got what I wanted, he got what he wanted. If he lied, I might not trade with him again (I despise liars), but again -- we both profited from the trade.
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A number of traders have me purchase games from the NZ Steam store to resell at a profit. Granted, they would make much more than I do, but they are the one supplying the funds required to purchase the games in the first place, so I accept the offers. I still make money I wouldn't otherwise have.
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I dont really care tbh .
I rarely trade stuff , and 99% of the times im the buyer anyway .
On the selling point of things , ppl should research when they sell something , and check its REAL value b4 they trade it away .
So if someone is going around and buying stuff , just to re sell it for profit , props to him ... its good that he found himself some little business like that :)
On the other hand . G2A is a scam site , and everyone knows that ... there is legit stuff there , but you can get your ass scammed and get no support whatsoever .
So there is also risk involved if thats the platform of choice for doing his business .
There is that small auction site i use , that i wont name :)
Where ppl can sell anything ( its not only for games ) , and there is that dude , who puts like 5 copies of each IndieGala bundle that came out in the past ~3-4 months .And has been doing similar stuff with Humble bundles for a long time .
Every game is selling for between 1$ and 3$ ( note that this cash is only usable in the site tho ) .
But the guy have bough An Iphone and a bike from there with that cash :)
And a bunch of other random crap ... like a Toaster and microwave .
So yeah , props to ppl who find a nice way to make some cash online
As long as they are not scamming anyone , and just trade the stuff fair and square , im cool with them .
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Finally, found something useful for this pic.
I cannot tell the trading-businessman what he/she should do or should not do because I am not him/her. Let everything be as long as both parties are satisfied.
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Merci camarade, je suis tout à fait de ton avis :)
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Edit, to clear up a couple of things: The use of this thread is to raise awareness. It is about ethics, about rights and about justice. There's very different definitions for words like trading around and I only notice that now. Trading, to me, is a simple and fair exchange of games that each party already has or don't want but happen to own it because of buying a bundle.
This thread is not much about the real profit someone gains. It's about ethics.
So. There's this massive trader on Barter that just announced his happy 1000th completed trade celebration.
Great you think?
No.
In reality he's just someone that trades for games he can resell for profit (sometimes huge profit..). I didn't even know some bundle games would sell that well on G2A & co. But I got suspicious about him a long time ago. It dawned on me when I saw he completed a trade that looked SO unrealistic to me. The Vanishing of Ethan Carter (his nuuvem key) for a game that has been bundled 3x and is not really wanted in the trading community anymore?
I just needed to investigate the case and found that specific game is selling very well for 10-12$ on the grey markets.
I know many people I traded with would resell my games because of them explicitly wanting gift links or Steam gifts. I only ask for those things if I want to make a giveaway for a game or I don't know the trader really well. Most of the times I didn't care too much but things have changed.
I can never be 100% sure what happens to my games but I'm separating myself more and more from trading anyways..
The only reason why it bothers me today a lot is because said person lied to me for half a year, he called me a conspiracy theorist because I questioned his sources and actions (I started asking out of curiosity where he's getting games from, not even to insult or judge him).
He made me believe I'm crazy. He even called me "sick" today.
The real issue here is almost all of those resellers are LYING. It is illegal to resell bundle keys. They have second accounts to hide their identity and they lie right into your face. They use you to make profit, even if you think you did a good trade. I don't want to support this grey market stuff anymore and nasty traders not being honest but leaving with a good reputation.
today's rant's over, go get your popcorn
PS: I'm looking forward to play your game, Mr. master trader. You told me you need RPG Maker gift links because you are still looking for people to hire to work on your game, which is why you need a 100% working key for later. ;) One of many sweet little lies.
PPS: In case someone asks why I even care: Read the text again.
PPPS: Mistrust and being cautious, imho, are good things. Don't trust anyone on the internet if you don't know them for a longer time.
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