Not like this is the fault only of Russia...
US weapon industry need wars so they creating those. Iam curious what would be the reaction of US government if Russia would ally Mexico and would plan to move armies and nuclear devices there... Ukraine became a manipulated puppet...
There are no good or bad side in this, just brainwashed humans, propaganda newspapers and fake channels as no objective news sources existing anymore, corrupt politicians on both side and nonelected shadow councils behind them, with billionaires whose want wars/chaos based on their interests.
A bigger war in Europe is unavoidable sadly, perhaps not now, but in 10years. Either it would start with a Russian attack or as an inside civil war, but it will happen sooner or later, just like in the US as leftists and rightists (both) became extermly intolerant and hater to eachother, they calling now eachother as rats and comparing humans to vermins, based on history, it is the first sign of an upcoming genocide.
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You're creating scenarios that don't exist. First of all, the US doesn't want Mexico. Heck, haven't they wasted all this money building a useless wall to stay away from them? The US here is the big power, which has nothing to do with the small power. It's not like Mexico has any plans to attack or expand into the US.
The difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Russia is a big power, and it surrounds Ukraine with Crimea and Belarus which are Russia's allies and they bully Ukraine which is a small country.
You can't compare the US or EU giving Ukraine tools to defend itself from a giant as fighting for them. Russia is basically fighting them with 2 other countries. Also, they're not giving them no nuclear weapons, hence why the US took even it's guards out of Ukraine to avoid any possible clash with Russia despite knowing it would only give more of an incentive to Putin. US did all they could to avoid war, but it doesn't seem fair to them that Russia doesn't stop already.
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"All you people are saying is that the rape victim is guilty of being near a rapist."
Where I said that? You full of anger, which is understandable, but I am against any war, but I also against lobbysm and such peacuful, but still hostile takeovers and manipulations.
"UKRAINE IS NOT RUSSIA!"
I also never said Ukraine should be part of Russia. Borders of Ukraine should be restored but Ukraine also should restore the human rights of minorities, else there will be never peace. Ukraine quite bad with that, as i heard from ruthenian and hungarian minority friends from SubCarpathia.
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There are no lesser evil for me. Evil is evil. Probably this is why i going to skip election this year too in my country, can't choose between bad and bad. And i never said Russia is good, i just saying that the fact this escalated into a war not only the fault of Russia. The first step to a global peace would be to find the faults inside of us, but neither western, neither eastern leaders or lobbyst behind them capable for that.
I have a quite optimistic personality and still can't see any bright future for humanity.
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Escalating it at all is all the fault of Russia right from the start and especially the mad dictator Putler. Voting there is completely unnecessary since every mad dictator always gets 110% of the votes. The first step to global peace would be Russia becoming a free democratic country, not invading everyone to get at least a bit of attention.
You're still saying that wearing a miniskirt is evil and that its at fault for the rape. And because both are evil the rape is equal to wearing a miniskirt
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Its only russias fault. None other.
Fairy tailes about ukraine wanting to attack ? The mighty russia ?
check this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
never gets old
Its only russia who attacked all their neighbors dozens of times.
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US weapon industry need wars so they creating those. Iam curious what would be the reaction of US government if Russia would ally Mexico and would plan to move armies and nuclear devices there... Ukraine became a manipulated puppet...
It doesn't seem like the US wanted this war at all. No NATO countries sent any soldiers and material help was quite minimal, too. And NATO already borders Russia and doesn't have nukes or significant armies in the Baltics either for example. It's not the 1960s any more, NATO and Russia can totally annihilate each other from anywhere on the globe. It's funny you say that Ukraine is a puppet now when Russia will most likely install a real puppet goverment themselves if they succeed.
There are no good or bad side in this, just brainwashed humans, propaganda newspapers and fake channels as no objective news sources existing anymore, corrupt politicians on both side and nonelected shadow councils behind them, with billionaires whose want wars/chaos based on their interests.
This just reads as a typical 'both sides bad' enlightened centrist take. Of course the West is very far from perfect too but I'm very grateful that we managed to escape Russia's sphere of influence and join the NATO and EU when Russia was at its weakest. I very much believe that Ukraine would also be better off with getting closer to the West than with getting chained to Russia. Unfortunately in the current situation they don't have the de facto sovereignity to choose what would normally be most beneficial for themselves. They probably should have done more to appease their powerful neighbour. But that's a hard sell when said neighbour already occupies parts of your country.
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And NATO already borders Russia and doesn't have nukes or significant armies in the Baltics either for example
I'm not sure if the emphasis is on not owning nukes, or not having them in the region, but intercontinental ballistic missiles exist for decades at this point. It really doesn't matter where the nukes are on the scale of Europe, even on global scale. For example UK has nukes and the ICBMs with 12000 km range capability. No place is safe from nukes, their location doesn't even worth discussing because of the enormous range + submarines.
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russian propaganda stands on "nato systematically weaponizes russian neighbour countries, thus nato's expanding towards russian borders". so in their logic, nato provoked putin to destroy ukrainian forces to avoid a bigger conflict on russian territories. brainwashed people come up with these oneliners, but when you try to talk to them, you understand that they don't read anything but putin's papers and they don't care about repressions inside the country as putin's opposion is aways "sponsored by the west and only works to destroy russia as a state".
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Don't get me wrong I like the USA far more than the Russia but I think Biden pushed Russia too much. This thing did not happen under Trump. under Trump, both countries were in friendly relation. also, I was watching China Global Television Network (CGTN), and they were saying that the Ukrainian president was a clown( literally) or something with no political knowledge. So much information, don't know what to believe.
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Trump is a narcissist, that's not a curse word but a medical term, a mental illness.
Part of that illness makes Trump look up to and admire people that are bullies.
Trump loves Putin, is a fan of Kim, and sees Xi as an equal.
Trump surrounded himself with (war)hawks, that's not a bird, put a political term for people that prefer conflict to solve problems.
While Trump acted like a dove (a person that prefers peaceful ways to solve conflicts) he was heading for a war with Iran using a Russian tactic of bullying till they crack.
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american society protested against iraq war. what russians do? they either support massacre if they are brainwashed, or they are afraid of siloviks kicking in their home's doors if they stand up against agression. also, soviets were in afghanistan, but it's not something you'd want to use to support your position, right?
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Does Russia have an alliance with Guatemala and all the other Latin American countries roundabout? Nope, just Cuba. Do the USA invade Mexico? Nope. Quite contrary. A poor comparison.
The USA is only part of this, because they are an ally of the European countries for 80 years now.
Why has the USSR not built up such a strong alliance with the European countries to avoid this situation? Why does everyone want to get in the NATO? And not into a new Warsow Pact?
Regarding Afghanistan: you know that Russia had gone there before, too? And the US and allies didn't go there to occupy it.
Regarding Iraq: There I agree, it's been a desaster.
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Don't get me wrong I like the USA far more than Russia but I think Biden pushed Russia too much. This thing did not happen under Trump. under Trump, both countries were in friendly relation. also, I was watching China Global Television Network (CGTN), and they were saying that the Ukrainian president was a clown( literally) or something with no political knowledge. So much information, don't know what to believe.
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Huh? If Russia hasn't invaded Afghanistan, then it also has no right to be proud of winning WW2. If, on the other hand, it considers itself to be the USSR successor, then it also hold responsibility for its acts like invading Afghanistan. Or are you just really, really bad when it comes to recent history?
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What they really should do, is take Russia's invading military as prisoners and allow them to live in a part of Ukraine as long as Putin backs off and of course pays for all of it because he wanted this.
But the UN will probably not interfere anymore other than restrictions as to not start WW3.
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He doesn't care much about his closest allies, what makes you think he cares about expendable cannon fodder? The moment these soldiers are imprisoned is the moment the propaganda machine starts saying something like 'oh look they've imprisoned our brave soldiers and torturing them now'.
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As a Turk, we're tired of being stuck between great powers, I hope peace will prevail here as before, because all the countries in the region, including us, are badly affected by these wars.
In fact, such wars between the powerful and the less powerful only show us that institutions such as the United Nations are only a toy in the hands of the powerful, and unless this order is disrupted, powerful countries make excuses for everything they do and are justified, while other countries only deal with what will happen to them
I hope Putin will step back before this ridiculous conflict-war goes further (I don't think so, but there should always be hope) and at the same time, NATO and the United Nations either act as necessary and apply international rules against Russia, or they do not set Ukraine on fire because of promises they cannot implement. A beautiful country like Ukraine and its citizens get rid of these dangerous days and return to their ordinary days..
God save all people from wars.
May Allah protect all people from wars.
Whatever you believe or don't believe, what you believe or don't believe will protect you from wars, wars only bring sadness.
I hope the grand plans! of these great countries! will stop one day and the world will find peace.
The territorial integrity of any country is not open to discussion, especially if it is determined by agreements.(I hope the big countries stop saying this for themselves and see that it applies to all countries. We are all human and we should all be equal.)
Look what Putin says, "The fact that Ukraine has advanced weapons and nuclear weapons is a threat to us, this makes us right to be aggressive,"
The funny thing is, isn't it a threat to other countries that there are so many nuclear weapons in Russia?
Why do nuclear-possessed countries, instead of doing something to get rid of all nuclear weapons, threaten other countries to not to have nuclear weapons, or go further and invade them? These need to be stated openly.
I hope that these senseless wars of interest will end as soon as possible and in the most bloodless way, and the territorial integrity of Ukraine, which is right in my opinion, will be preserved.
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I am agree with your points, but still dont think we had to start a war with a Ukraine. I do believe there was other options. I also dont think Russia is surrounded by enemies, as our goverment says on regular basis. Myself i feel like gov try to hide inner problems and economy starvation behind outer politics and global manipulations, ie "enemy at the borders, we r surrounded, thats why prices on literally everything skyrocketing every year, we must show them that we are strong still".
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Just wanted to say thank you for this thread. For me it was very important to hear that sane foreigners don't blame each and every Russian person for our country's crimes. It's hard to stay strong today, I've started having panic attacks (never had them before) and can barely sleep. Basically, tears are a normal reaction to the horror that's going on right now. But I do believe that this world still deserves a chance (although my country probably doesn't). I hope your family will be fine.
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Sorry mate, I'm sure most of the civilized world supports Ukraine and wants this invasion to end, but no one dares to go against Russia. It is one of the 3 big global players and no one wants to escalate this into a possible WW III. We will have to wait and see what USA will do...
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Уже немає сил стримувати сльози. Прокинутися від вибухів, чути гул сирен, а зараз читати всі ці новини... Невимовно боляче. Сподіваюся він заплатить за усю пролиту кров, за всі знищені життя. Страшно, що буде далі. Надіємося на наших хлопців.
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Крепись. Выпей таблетку цитрамона, она немного успокаивает нервы.
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More like Germany and Luxembourg 👀
But yup... that's one silly war...
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Even Russian citizens don't want this war:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/24/we-dont-need-war-shock-anger-and-defiance-on-moscows-streets-as-russia-invades-ukraine-a76574
Also, in case any Ukrainian needs this: There has been false news being spread around that the Polish border has been closed. This is a false and any Ukrainian can cross it! Visas aren't needed anymore either, only a passport!
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I think it's not really a surprise Russians don't want the war either.
It's just the big propaganda machine at work which feeds the loud minority. As you can see the most ruckus in the comments are made by 2-3 supporters who just throw vague statements around to provoke others.. It`s almost like these people don't even realize that while they are sitting in their troll caves there are people actually dying. 57 already dead and 169 injured according to the Ministry of Health
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1496921301705007116 - already people are being arrested for this. I just hope the loud minority gets silenced down by common sense in normal people.
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My grandmother is pro-war (but that's ok, she's senile). My uncle is pro-war. My mom's best friend is pro-war. Most of my sister's colleagues are pro-war. My university friend is pro-war. My neighbors are pro-war. They are not awful people, mind you (well, except for my dearest grandmother, but that a different story); they've just been zombiefied (is this even a word in English?) by government media. Of course, they would change their tune as soon as their children, grandchildren, husbands are conscripted to army, but for now so many people are actually welcoming this war. It's hard to judge by social networks because troll factories are working 24/7, but still, I'm under an impression that voices of reason are actually the minority.
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It's easy to influence people. You just need to believe it a bit to catch upon an idea...
Trolls - to the war criminal prison with them... but most of the supporters between regular people are still good people.
Disappointed I have to bring up something like that in an already sad thread - but covid proved that as well.. both for supporters and for deniers. Neither are bad people but it's so easy to become radicalized to support one side over other and to start hating on the other...
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From my surroundings most people don't want this war or, at least, are too occupied with their own problems to care. But, yeah, there are enough people that support this aggression. Some of them are brainwashed by propaganda, some are just dickheads. It's a minority, but a loud and aggressive minority with untied hands and full support from the government. At the same time, people that are against the war are mostly tired, scared and demoralised. Well, at least my granny hates Putin — that's a comforting thought.
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I used to have a granny like this. In a way, I'm glad she's not with us anymore, she was old enough during WWII to perfectly remember the horrors of war, she knew how actual Nazism looked like, and she would be heartbroken to see what her country has become.
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I remember those meetings with WWII veterans when I was a kid. All of them kept saying: "I hope there would never be a new war". And now politicians and propagandists use them to justify the massacre in our neighbouring country. The war against our brotherly nation with whom these veterans fought shoulder to shoulder against nazis. So, yeah, at least most of them wouldn't see it.
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Russia has changed the languages of not only yours but also the Turkish states that it neighbors. I hope this nonsense ends. The world is big enough and has enough resources for everyone. I don't understand why people are fighting. When they die, they will not be able to take away anything they have.
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NATO is the root of the problem. Take NATO membership off the table and this could all go away overnight. Putin has made that clear on numerous occasions. The US hasn't even tried to negotiate this with Russia, even though Ukraine will probably never be a NATO member anyway. Instead Biden administration digs it heels in, spouting a lot of phony rhetoric about protecting democracy because it wants war - it wants the distraction from it's own failed domestic policies and tanking popularity and a scapegoat to blame soaring energy costs and rampant inflation on.
Before you flame me, I 'm not a Putin apologist - I think he's pretty terrible. But I understand why he doesn't want NATO sitting on his doorstep, in the same way that the US freaked the fck out during the Cuban missile crisis. NATO was formed for the purpose of opposing the USSR, which no longer exists. So why does NATO still exist if not simply to threaten a failing petrostate? So in this particular instance, awful as he is, he has a point, and one that the US and Europe are diligently and willfully ignoring, because, WAR.
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The NATO still exist because it's better to have allies when the next Hitler arises (like we are seeing now) than having no allies at all. The US don't need to negotiate with Russia about the Ukraine joining the NATO, the Ukraine is a sovereign country that can decide by themselves with who they want to partner up with.
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Your argumentation about NATO is... ehmmm.... nonsens. CCCP (Russia) is neighbour with 4 countries from NATO - and Russia was never attacked from this countries and never was threaten from them.
Ukraine is independent country, they can choose "sides". Russia is dangerous and unreliable partner - as you can see, NATO is necessary in this times
(I understand situation of Ukraine, our country has similar experience with "liberating" from Russia/CCCP - nothing changed in this land)
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Of course it does. Ukraine can still remain a neutral state with ties to and support from NATO countries. But whether or not Ukraine gets to join NATO is not up to Ukraine - it's up to NATO and if even one NATO country decides Ukraine membership is not worth the risk of a hot war with Russia or even possible nuclear exchange it will not be voted in. "The key determinant for any invitation to new members is whether their admission to NATO will strengthen the alliance and further the basic objective of NATO enlargement, which is to increase security and stability across Europe." (US State Dept.) This is clearly not currently the case - just the opposite. Putin has been drawing a line in the sand in regards to Ukraine membership since at least 2008. It's quite possible that he is merely using his objection to NATO membership as the excuse to invade. But, the problem is no one bothered to test that assertion and call his bluff to see if he would stand down if Ukraine and NATO backed off. If you want to call that appeasement, feel free, but I don't think that this issue is worth a possible world conflagration.
There are other ways to support and help Ukraine - and the most essential one is operating from a position of strength and will. We are just not doing a very good job of it right now. Putin is an opportunistic aggressor who only moves when he perceives weakness and vulnerability in his opponents. The Afghanistan withdrawal and the curtailment of fuel production in the US have signaled crucial weak points that he is happy to exploit. Now European NATO countries are constrained by dependence on Russian gas and the US has no means to bail them out and leaders in Washington are perceived as weak and ineffectual. Further, he's not worried about our sanctions because he now has China and Iran to help him out.
This is a truly dangerous situation for everyone, that might, might have been avoided. It was certainly worth a shot considering the alternatives. Just consider, all it will take is a Russian cyber attack on Ukraine that happens to spill over into neighboring NATO states to trigger Article 5 of the treaty and then we are all in the shit.
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Our (Russian) military aircraft An-26 crashed on Russian turf. Well, if our soldiers manage to die before reaching the war zone - maybe Ukraine still has a chance.
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I agree Ukraine is NOT Russia and unfortunately have zero power to prevent any of this. I like Russia and Russian culture and have always been an advocate against western stereotypes of Russia. Putin set everything I was doing back to start...
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Napoleon started with Italy and only stopped in Waterloo, Hitler started with Poland and you know what came next. Putin is just one more dictator with the difference being he relies on nukes instead of soldiers and swords and musquets.
If no one stops him, next is Poland, or Romania.
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I kind of expected that.. although it's still unbelievable.
Take care.
Anybody knows how to start nuclear program? I would feel much safer with a couple of A-class arguments on my side.
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Putin = Hitler. He started with Georgia in 2008, now Ukraine. Who will be next? Poland? Lithuania? UN, NATO and USA does nothing. A lot of my friends are sitting with their families in shelters, while Mr.Putin is bombing Ukraine. For what?! He is freaking insane!
STOP WAR! STOP RUSSIA!
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you're delusional . . i was there. i remember that day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Russo-Georgian_War#Overview_timeline
read this:)
anyway, I strongly disapprove of the invasion of Ukraine.
the situation is strikingly different from that in Abkhazia.
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