I really want to see a proper legal case about this at some point.
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Value has nothing to do with this, this happens when sellers don't pay developer/publish for the game but I've never heard of this happening from Fanatical before.
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Where did you get this info from?
It was the original publisher that didnt pay the devs.
The devs then went on with some stupid statement about 3rd party sites because they "panicked" (bad excuse from thei side).
All the blame here is on the scamming publisher and the dev that revoked keys and then tried to blame 3rd party sites.
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I think Valve has everything to do with this. They provide the mechanism. They have absolutely no right to revoke access, or provide access to revocation, to anyone's property without a court order. This is not a neutral process. They would be legally liable if they randomly gave away keys for no reason; they are equally liable for allowing developers to use their mechanisms to revoke keys.
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Digital property is very much a thing- in this case, that'd be a digital license, for use within the Steam service.
The problem is that it's unclear if the property ownership was properly transferred to the consumers (or even to Fanatical), since the publisher renegaded on their contract. It's possible they had a transfer of right of sale, which would have made it a court case related to compensation of profits, but it's also possible they didn't have full rights of sale- or, put more simply, that the developer still retained rights to revoke/reclaim the property if the contract was in any way breached. This wouldn't be an uncommon setup.
Put more simply, if the keys were legally defined as "stolen", it doesn't matter if Fanatical had the best intentions or if we spent money on it. We- and even Fanatical- could still very much be in a legal situation where we have no rights to the property. In this case, the proper response would be for us to enquire with Fanatical as to whether or not they properly reviewed the sale rights of the publisher, and for us to seek compensation from Fanatical for our damages, and up to Fanatical to seek compensation for their damages from the publisher.
Of course, if the publisher did have the rights to sell to Fanatical, regardless of their not providing compensation for the products, then the developer would be liable to Fanatical, and this thread'd be a bit more justifiable from that perspective. However, if the publisher didn't provide a base payment to acquire the keys in the first place, that circmstance seems unlikely- after all, if no payment was transferred to the developer at any point, then it's uncertain that the publisher ever "bought" the right to the keys in the first place.
That's not to say there aren't contracts which transfer rights; Rather, that's the norm when you're under a major publisher. However, such publishers are fundamentally investors who've funded your project and therefore "bought" rights, and may even own the IP or other aspects of development outright. Conversely, we're discussing a small end distribution publisher, which generally just takes a marketing role. It's possible that the developer did an unfavorable contract, but since we don't know that side of things, it'd be quite weird of us to be assuming they did, without any clear indication of such.
Further, add in that the developer explicitly stated that they were unaware of any legitimate attempt at sale, and had only come across the keys on unofficial resale sites like G2A, and it becomes far more understandable why they revoked the keys (versus, say, interacting with Fanatical on the matter, whom they apparently were entirely unaware even existed). Obviously, their approach would have been different had they taken a bit more time to investigate (which is on them)- but given the framework of "some sketchy grey market site with a terrible reputation when it comes to interacting with developers has our keys", would most anyone else's kneejerk reaction have been much different?
While the developer handled this poorly- rather, kneejerk reactions rarely have a good outcome for any of us- even more disappointing are the warped perspectives in this thread, some of which deliberately misrepresent the information we've been provided while putting the full onus of the matter onto the developer, all while engaging in unnecessary hostility, entitlement, and pettiness.
That's not by any means to say that the underlying sentiments aren't entirely reasonable! It's just to say that the presentation is not being handled at all appropriately. ..Oh, hey, that dynamic sure does sound familiar.. though I don't recall the developers getting nasty about it, so I guess they're objectively still ahead.
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How is it Gaben's fault that a publisher(not a store!) doesn't pay their developers?
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That isn't Gaben's fault, and I never said or implied that it was. Allowing devs and publishers to revoke legitimately purchased keys at the click of a button with zero mediation is.
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It's a small annoyance, for me personally, but it's starting to get out of hand when stuff gets revoked this long after the fact.
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Same here. I won it and now i have revoked game. :(
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not willing to give out my email to a developer team like that, iam happy without that game.
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same here... won this game here on steamgifts and now key is revoked
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there is a thread for that
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Dgscb/a-list-of-games-whose-unredeemed-keys-were-revoked
thanks :)
PS: already mentioned there https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/dd1bLc6
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Dgscb/a-list-of-games-whose-unredeemed-keys-were-revoked
A list of games whose unredeemed keys were revoked
Even putting context elements aside, PSAs are typically considered to have value outside of compilation threads while the event is unfolding. Rather, if you close one, you'll only see more open up, so it's counterproductive to even make the attempt. Think of it like having a thread for X Bundle, while also having X Bundle mentioned in the active Bundles thread (is that even still around?). The organization is useful (and my typical personal preference), but focus and visibility can be as well.
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that thread got closed 1 year ago -_-
and "got merged" to the other.
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that thread got closed 1 year ago -_-
That's related to the point I'm making, yes. :S
and "got merged" to the other.
That doesn't appear to be an actual thing, either by the thread title or description?
In light of that, I'd interpret any such posts as the associated users intentially spamming/derailing the thread.
While I'm not seeing anything in the updated site rules to restrict excessive off-topic posting in informational threads, it's still inadvisable from the perspective of favorable community interaction. In any case, as noted, it'd be irrelevant to the validity of this thread even if it was a thing- as even the previous, more relevant compilation thread wouldn't pose a meaningful inhibition on the justifiability of this thread.
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please don't. wait for this to sort out. don't be greedy, even the google form itself may be phishing
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I don't see how they think they'll get replacement keys out only to legitimate purchasers with that form. Should just replace keys at Fanatical.
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Deals
Snrk.
"Overfall" keys revoked by developer
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So that explains it
I was wondering how in the world a 3 years old key revoked
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I was wondering how in the world a 3 years old key revoked
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:D nice gifs I like them
but I mean I had 1 month revoke, 3 month revoke, 6 month revoke at max, but 3 years cmon :D
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I was pretty darn startled to see that in my Steam pop-ups, yeah. :S
Less because of the revocation and all the associated elements thereof, and more that Steam allowed a revocation after three years.
Frankly, at this point, Valve is the biggest offender in this matter; I mean, the text on the revocation itself reads "Your recent Product code activation"..
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I feel like revocation was originally intended to be used in cases of actual payment issues with the end-user, such as fraudulent gift card/credit card purchases or charge-backs which normally would be caught fairly soon after purchase. And perhaps in rare cases if a store (or dev/publisher's compuer system) was compromised and keys were stolen en masse.
But using it as a way to solve contractual disputes between devs/publishers/stores is inappropriate. Those are legal matters and should be taken up in the courts.
There also seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding at play in most of these cases. Dev XYZ sees his game for sale on G2A/kinguin or whatever and thinks "OMG I'm being scammed!" because they don't realize people buy bundle keys and sit on them for years trying to flip them on these marketplaces.
Revoking activated keys and then replacing them seems to be a massive waste of time for all involved. If they are willing to replace (for example) Fanatical keys but not G2A keys, then they should have worked with Fanatical to get a list of which keys were sold on their site so they could be excluded from the mass key extinction.
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Or just revoke all unused keys if those old bundle keys are still circulating G2A or sites like that, problem solved. No one is obliged to replace an unused key from years ago, so there wouldn't have been much of an issue with Fanatical in that instance.
They've just created a massive mess for themselves. And they deserve the fallout. Some people on Steam are complaining that their account got flagged because of this revocation, and I wouldn't be surprised, especially if they've been unlucky enough to have been caught up in past similar messes.
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That's false. Any key is a contract made and breaking the contract is a law suit case.
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Keys often expire after x number of years. Indiegala is notorious for expiring unused keys. That's why it is better to use them rather than hold onto them for years to come. I wouldn't lose any sleep if an unused key that I had sitting in an account from 2018 expired. If I had it that long, I never intended to use it.
It's like buying a 50 euro gift voucher for a shop. Most do not last indefinitely. A law was introduced pretty recently (2019 I think) here to ensure that people get at least 5 years to use that voucher. Before this, they could expire them after 2 years, maybe even 12 months.
I don't even know if there's a law that covers Steam keys. Pretty sure there isn't, but it would fall into the realm of gift voucher since it needs to be redeemed.
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Only a few sidenotes:
The key revoking from the dev, if they don't got paid from the publisher, that got money from a store, isn't a waste of time for the dev's.
The dev revoke the keys, that they don't get paid for. That way Fanatical want replacements from the publisher and that said publisher, of course, can't provide them. So Fanatical want there paid money back from that publisher. And A store like Fanatical have much more power and might (+ a legal department) as a tiny/small dev studio.
Don't get me wrong, the way the devs done it is, from my point of view, wrong. To do such a stunt 2.5 years later is, in the best case, stupid.
And of course it would have given possibilities to handle the situation better with example, hiring a lawyer to take the publisher to a court, inform the playerbase earlier about the incoming key revoking and communicate with steam and fanatical about their options for new keys and/or key delivery to the owners/customers or maybe help with their legal departments and advices what to do as best in such a situation (i am sure they don't would gave the hint to revoke the keys in that way ^^).
I hear from devs and publishers, very often, stories about "black sheeps" under the publishers and let's say i hear and see the same "company" names again and again and again. The one from this case too.
So i would say the "beginner/new" devs jump into a ocean full with sharks and mostly don't have the knowledge and money do defend their property in a equal way.
Easy said, homework not done -if i want to sell something i should be sure that none rob me with a contract or after signing a contract...- but i partly understand why so many step in the traps of the much better informed and prepared shady publishers that do that stuff over and over and over again (because no or nearly none experience with such stuff like contracts, laws, programming skills + [expensive] tools to encrypt their gamefiles).
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Great that you link to some stuff that some random people posted there.
Partly without context and in all cases not linked to the right publisher they spoke about.
They wrote the publishers name Flying Interactive
https://steamcommunity.com/app/402310/discussions/0/3068614788762142906/
Sometimes it's much better to read what the devs write instead to trust some people of a mob with torches and forkes in the hands and not much brain power to read complete texts with more as 200 characters and understand the written words too.
It give contracts only for a ammount of keys (in this case 30 or 35k, in other cases around 50k/per game) and that publishers aren't listed at steam because they get only a limited publisher job and not a "publisher for all" contract that have something to do with the daily steam stuff.
So not uncommon that the shady publishers/black sheepy nearly never listed at steam (as far as i have myself infos about the black sheep publishers they do to 90% only contracts that don't list them at steam -i assume that is "common" for such ones-).
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Those "random posters" got their info from the game's list of publisher changes as recorded by SteamDB. Try to find that publisher there:
https://steamdb.info/app/402310/history
They were already publishing under their own names as far back as 2016.
I can understand that you're still mad at me because I banned you from everywhere I could a while ago, but standing up for scammers is a new low even for you.
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It was clear that you don't want to see the difference between listed at steamdb's official publisher list, that were as info in the steam store page at some time, and the publishers i listed above.
Which publishers are listed on top, to the one that don't paid them -if their info are correct-, is complete uninteresting.
I am not mad at you because you blacklisted me (you are a online stranger... so not important for me).
But i don't like it when people come around with "when you say something against my opinion then you support scammers" without to bring a clear proof that this people are scammers. Such "discussion style" is from my point of view, at least, bad taste and mostly very dumb.
Right now we don't kow something for sure and i prefer to look at the facts (that fanatical is involved now as example) and besides that i see only the "brainless mob" as always when a key get revoked.
Only a small part act normal and wait till something is CLEAR (i count me to that part).
A fact is that fanatical care for stuff and that something will move, normaly in a more positive way as right now after the revoked keys.
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There is nothing to argue about here. The facts are clear, the developers (who are also the publishers) are scammers, and people who defend their scam are worse than them. The end.
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The developer has something like a survey form for support, but there is no mention that promises to handle the information.
It does not seem to be an immediate reissue.
(Email address etc. may be used for other purposes)
It looks like the developers have chosen an option where no one is rescued.
Umm.. :(
For now, let Steam (Valve) know the situation and see what happens.
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Dev edit.
Edit: We're not talking about Fanatical with the whole fraud situation, we're in fact in contact with them to make things easier for you guys.
not talking about Fanatical
...┐(´Θ`)┌
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I wish they would also update their notification about when key gets revoked, that shit scares me so much how it looks, like you got banned or something...I remember first time I got it because some dev didn't know how to set up beta keys to expire by themselfs and instad used revoke feature...my heart stopped when I saw yellow notification and took me quite some time to relax...
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I also bought it 3 years ago.
And now the key has been revoked.
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Your thread is very misleading as it indirectly implies that it was Fanatical that scammed (didn't pay) the developer for the keys sold in the bundle, even though the developer says in that thread that it was (unnamed) publisher that contacted them for a deal on 30k keys (and I assume it was that publisher that then sold a portion of those keys to Fanatical for their bundle) and didn't pay them for it.
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These revokers are both crimey and stupid. If they have problem with sites they sold or not sold their product why they not sue them? Why they f@ck those who legally bought them. Angering hundreds or thousands are better than sueing one? Also now they provide a form to obtain key again, but why they revoked them originally if they provide them again. Ideally all purchasers will do the form and everything will be at the same place where it started but with extra hassle and anger added. i won't do the form and ignored and added scammer tag to their games. Good advertisement if many people would do.
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Look up laws for "receiving stolen merchandise" and see what rights the recipient has when they think they've legally bought something from a third party. Hint: basically none.
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These things like this has happened before. Time for Valve do something about this
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I bought that Origins bundle in 2018.
I did fill the form to get a new key.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Revoking every key was a mistake. Overfall will possibly be review bombed and that dev will get a bad rep. Not good for business.
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A lot of people, including me, want legal action against this kind of behavior to prevent these incidents but I wonder if it's even possible since a key is just a license to use the game.
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How its possible that they can revoke game after ~2 years? Thats kinda strange. Hope they lost all money for each copy they revoked
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2 hours ago · 1 April 2021 – 14:13:42 UTC
Changed Associations1/name: Gathering Tree › Pera Games
1/type: developer › publisher
2/name: Pera Games
2/type: publisher
https://steamdb.info/app/402310/history/?changeid=11121816
A game development studio based in Istanbul, with a legacy of making community-focused, moddable, expandable, replayable, strategically deep, and content-heavy games. Inquiries: gatheringtreegames@gmail.com
https://store.steampowered.com/developer/gatheringtree/#browse
Pera Games is an independent game studio located in Istanbul, Turkey.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/perags/about/?ref=page_internal
Same publisher different name? What is happening here?
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I bought it. I flagged it as fraud, ignored it, and left negative feedback. This is bologna.
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If any of you have the game but don't remember where. I got it from
Fanatical - Origins Bundle tier 2
2018-10-18
From fanatical we can get the key to fill out the form
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Overfall I purchased from the Chrono.gg coins shop 3 years ago has NOT been revoked, so far.
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I've just got a Steam pop-up (and apparently wasn't the only one) saying that the activated product code has been removed from my account. As further explanation it says "Your recent Product code activation has been revoked due to a problem processing payment for this item."
Here's a screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/dXgiCYW.png
The game was part of Fanatical's 'Origins Bundle' and could also be purchased as part of Fantical's 'Staff Picks 2018 (Build your own bundle)'.
I had won the game here on Steamgifts and activated it the same day on 8th September 2019, 6pm. The developer made a post on the games community page on Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/402310/discussions/0/3068614788761423239/
In that post they've linked a google form for you to fill out in order to claim a replacement key - if you still have the original key and know where you've bought it. [Warning: It is advised not to use that form as supplying the requested information has the potential to render your Steam account vulnerable to be claimed by third parties.]
In short it says "they were going to pay us after-sales. Unfortunately, we got scammed by them and couldn't receive payment."
Update 1:
Fanatical published a little statement on the issue: https://support.fanatical.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018863437
Update 2:
Another dev made a second statement (https://steamcommunity.com/app/402310/discussions/0/3068614788762142906/) about the issue and apparently they want to let fanatical replace those keys originally sold by them.
What the statement fails to address is what is going to happen with the data that people already have provided in their original Google form.
Update 3:
Fanatical have updated their blog post with part of it saying: "we have received new keys that we are in the process of sending you over the next couple of days."
Update 4:
According to an update from 6th April, 11:51 am to the Fanatical blog post about the issue, they are now in the process of replacing the keys and sate that the system will notify you via email once the new key is in place. They also clarify once again that this issue was caused by the wrongfully doing of the game's devs.
As for revoked keys from other shops - there's no info on that as far as I'm aware.
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