Would you suspend the resold cd-key?
(i can query keys through the steamworks partner page)
Care to explain this? Otherwise you're in the clear, if you've provided adequate proof to support about the user. And when they do get suspended, shoot a ticket asking for deletion of the giveaway since I assume you wouldn't want to repurchase it again because it will show up as unactivated on the user. Or, leave it be I guess, since they probably won't be able to change the feedback.
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im a steamworks partner, on the steamworks partner website theres a function where you can query your OWN KEYS
it sees the key was generated on third october 2016 and redeemed on 25th january 2017
he was also online alot - because on steamgifts it says how many hours ago he was last seen
so i checked his account and it wasnt redeemed on it
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Well, that's pretty scummy. Good call, and yeah I'd have done the same had I been in your position.
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if i could revoke keys/gifts i would have done the same.
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Kudos for revoking that key :D If I had the technical possibilities (access to the Steamworks partner page and the ability to revoke keys) I would have done absolutely the same. People like that normally don't care much about the slap on the wrist SteamGifts might give them but revoking the key and forcing them to deal with the pissed off customer and potential repercussions from ### if it happens too often, is much more effective.
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Sadly, it is not uncommon. The site is too big now, and despite the 100-dollar registration bar, a small microeconomy was built on winning and reselling keys originating from here. Add in that there is a fully publicly available autojoin script on Google store that enters everything without the user doing anything (and there are other ones not as publicly advertised), and you can see why most of the fully public level 0 giveaways are promotional, for cheap bundle keys, or made by users who are yet to experience the same thing you did.
Also, the fact that these key reselling sites are growing like fungus and G2A/Kinguin reaching the point where they don't even have to bribe streamers, YouTubers, Twitch itself, or a bunch of gullible idiots to make themselves known, attracts even more people to just get keys and resell them.
Not activating a key on this site results in a 5-day suspension, and depending on when the user will find a giveaway creator who even bothers to check these, they can get dozens of keys before they are permanently evicted. Automating this system would help and increasing the punishment after the second infraction and so forth would also (right now it just mildly increases at each rule-breaking). But since it doesn't seem to happen and the support staff is practically constantly swamped, people just resort to ever-increasing layers of restrictions in futile attempts of trying to keep these thieves away.
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Not activating a key on this site results in a 5-day suspension
How is it triggered? I once had a winner who immediately created a new GA using the key he won and I wasn't quite sure what to do about it...
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You need to tell it to support somehow. Best bets are reroll and request receive feedback tickets. This is why it is important to always check the winners before sending out the keys; since the system is not automated for some reason, users have to make sure to check everything.
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I did check and he had a couple of not activated wins (just not activated, no GA created with them), but... they were more than 30 days old, which seems to be the criterion to ask for a reroll :/
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It is not, but it is phrased horribly in the system. If the user was suspended within the last 30 days, you can ask for a reroll and it will be granted. You can ask for a reroll even if the latest non-activation was weeks before, but if he already served the suspension and it was over a month ago, then it gets denied.
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Always ask support to check - it can't hurt and it might help
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Thank you for the advice, I got the occasion to use it yesterday. Support was very fast and GA got rerolled to someone who follows the rules :)
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i recently asked for a reroll for a person who hadn't activated games several years ago. I think it was there first time checking him because I still got a reroll. You should still ask for a reroll in case something like that has happened.
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I can't really imagine much profit can be made by winning and then reselling games.. any of the games which you can resell are going to have thousands upon thousands of entries, and the odds of winning them are so minuscule, I wouldn't place much stock in winning them..
most of the time you'll win some bundle game that wouldn't even be worth the hassle of reselling..
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It is still free money on the side. You cannot imagine how cheap people can be.
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Best move you could've done, hopefully his 'customer' gets angry and tries to get his cash back. Probably won't change anything in the long run unfortunately, but a little bit of revenge has to be allowed ;).
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the big problem with those guys/sites, is that it's not them that get hurt, but the buyer (he's the one who lost money).
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A couple of months ago someone stole two tires from my car - f*ck knows if they needed just two or someone interrupted them.
I parked in an area which wasn't well lit or covered by nearby security cameras. Lost a grand on buying a new set of tires [come only in 4].
You live and you learn, so would the buyers for buying from sites like those.
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In fairness, if you're going to make a homemade Segway, you may as well go for some expensive tires for it. And, y'know, someone happened to leave a few $250-per tires just laying around.. What's a Gypsy-minded tinkerer to do but accept such a generous gift?
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It was that expensive because it was a new car with "shiny" wheels.
You can get a plain no-brand set for as low as 250$~300$.
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Wait, you haven't heard the real kicker.
I only had the car for 2 months and apparently its not covered by the insurance** :/
**would've have jacked up the price more than it would've saved me, but still... f-ckin' insurance.
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Personally, I am not entirely opposed to the idea of people realizing that shady resellers are shady.
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But the buyer bought it in shady conditions (on websites known to sell keys from unofficial sources or directly), so they should accept that risk... Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose.
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I know that, but many "influent" people (mainly youtubers) speak good about them so their brainless followers buy on them thinking they are as reliable as Humble Store.
edit : and all the "I never had problem with them, so they are OK"
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What would you have done?
idk tbh.. i kinda feel bad for the buyer/trader that received the steamkey in the end though, they were likely a innocent bystander that got wrapped up in the actions of the thieving winner of your key. assuming of course they are separate individuals and the winner just didn't redeem on an alt account.
without a doubt though i'd report them to support here though with the evidence that you can provide that most everyday users cannot. i would hope in this case that is enough "court worthy" evidence to just skip a first/second offense suspension and go straight for the perma ban.
with that being said though i by no means blame you. i may still of done the same exact thing, but even while doing so can't help but feel bad if there was an innocent that got wrapped up in it.
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innocent
Anybody that trades game keys, even on SteamTrades, or buys keys through a reseller like Kinguin or G2A, is far from innocent - I include myself as a general trader in this definition. They accept all risk when they consciously decide to utilize these grey markets and communities.
OP, good on you for your action. Were I in the same role, I'd do everything you did, as well as reporting the user to Steam for fraudulently distributing keys (but I'm an asshole). Sorry you had to experience this.
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buying and trading if you are the receiver and lose out on what you traded for, you are the "innocent victim"
i get your point and they should of been well aware that any and all trades have this potential revoking possibility. but it doesn't mean they are immediately at fault, therefore they are "innocent".. poor choice of word to quote, i'd of at least gone with "bystander" xD
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Sorry, but I'm not so softhearted. By accepting the risk of an action, you lose your innocence in associated event. Partial blame can be placed on the victim, as they knowingly exposed themselves to the situation that they could have simply avoided. They are still a victim, yes, but are far from innocent.
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- what crime or offense are they guilty of? trading is now offensive?
- how are they directly involved with the theft of the won game? they are however indirectly involved by receiving it in a trade
by definition they are innocent.
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To use an alalogy what would you say about a guy who buys a 2000€ TV for 250€ from his neighbor in Manchester without explicitely knowing it is stolen ?
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wait i gotta think this one over, i misread it... edit coming...
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Yea, I know this thread is about the person who stole the key in the first place but you two were having a side-discussion about the question if the buyer of dubious merchandise carries part of the guilt as well so I jumped in on that.
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i hate comparing ants to elephants, i can't even really begin.
idk if either of you caught what i said in my first post though.. "i may still of done the same exact thing, but even while doing so........"
the only part i'm arguing is the person that bought it in this case by definition is innocent so quoting that word and claiming they are not innocent would be completely incorrect. liable = yes but still also innocent = yes & victim = yes
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I wasn't comparing those 2 situations I was using an analogy on a larger scale to make it easier to see.
Sure, the guy who bought that key from ### is innocent and if he takes the time to do so I'm pretty sure he can get his money back but it might also teach him a lesson about the risks involved when buying from dubious sources.
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oh i totally agree. but azure is confusing liability with innocence.. by trading in general it doesn't automatically make you guilty or offensive, it just makes you liable.. whereas azure was claiming they automatically lost their innocence by trading..
took me forever to find the correct word for this situation, but back to your analogy.. "what would i say about that" the purchaser is an innocent, liable, victim. & the seller is a thieveing whatever i said earlier b4 the edit crook. xD
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We can completely agree on that :D I have to admit I didn't read your discussion carefully right from the beginning. I just saw a stalemate discussion and decided to play Advocatus Diaboli.
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You ever think that a person might not be aware that the site may not be safe??This is one of the things those site prey upon is people thinking they are safe and not everything is a scam on said site.These are just like flea markets,not everyone who sells at a flea market is out to get you the same with this site.
Your analogy is a bit strong...
To use an alalogy what would you say about a guy who buys a 2000€ TV for 250€ from his neighbor in Manchester without explicitely knowing it is stolen ?
While I can agree some of the things and how keys are handled on some of these sites are not on the up and up.The prices are not so low that it screams "too good to be true".They do not sell new releases at over 75% off or more like the TV price you just mentioned.
You just assume that everyone who goes to said site should automatically know it is dubious.Given how anyone can be fooled I guess we should treat the whole world as dubious.It happens on all sites that have market places even Amazon has scammers.So I guess if we get scammed on Amazon we should know better because it has dubious sellers on the site.
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The point of that analogy is, even trading with a trusted neighbor or family member still puts you in some degree of risk. Legally, stolen goods are repossessed from the end-buyer without any recompensation- so even in that most favorable circumstance, you're still looking at the same foundational risks as someone using even more illicit avenues for trade or sale.
Sure, going through something like G2A is throwing all rights to indignation aside [being betrayed by a known-to-be-scummy marketer is definitely different than being stabbed in the back by someone you trusted], but Azure is right: Fundamentally, they all carry similar risks, and it's our own decision to go through with such involvements.
I'm staunchly behind right-of-first-sale, but that doesn't mean I ignore the fact that humans can be an unpredictable, disingenuous lot. Much like how the OP's "repossession" protects the sanctity of the developer and SG, the laws that return items to their original owners where possible are similarly positive contributions to protecting product owners. The fact that the developer in this case can generate keys out of thin air doesn't negate the immorality of the act, or ignore the fact that the end-buyer should be well familiar with legal and moral expectations on such matters. The developer had clear expectations that were known to the recipient, and can't be blamed for properly following up on their own interactions [which is something commendable, rather].
In the end, the end-buyer can go "I shouldn't have trusted that trader" or "I shouldn't have used that site", but they can't blame anyone but themselves and the con-man/thief for the end results.
//
As far as not knowing how untrustworthy G2A is goes, there's a certain amount of research you should do before using any site. But past that.. well, sometimes you get conned, especially when you're too inexperienced to be familiar with such things. You're right- in that, the permissiveness society has toward such scummery is to blame, not the "innocent victim". But in that, getting experience toward such things from something minor like this, is definitely better than certain alternatives. It's not ideal, but lacking any way of contacting the end-buyer directly, there's not much to be done about it.
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If you do your research then you would find overall most people who use those sites have no issues.Yeah some have had issues and some stolen keys have got in the wild but that has happened even with authorized resellers.
So unless you have some tin foil conspiracy shit going on were you think the world is out to get you then a lot will still see this site as a trusted place to buy goods since most who use it have little issue
Still why is theft being throwing into a debate about fault vs innocent.Yet Sundance has to chime in with some random banter about stolen goods.When nothing here was stolen.They were given a key and they had the right to do what they want with it since it was legally obtained.
Sure the OP had the right to do so i guess it was his key.Though now that I have thought about it some more I can not agree on it being revoked as the best soultion and imo the wrong one.I know a lot or most will not agree.
The person who recieved the key got it in a legal manor so from a legal stand point they have the right to do as they want with it.The moral end of it what they did was wrong.The only person who got punished was the person who got revoked.Unless they were set out to get said key by fraud I would say they were innocent.
Just because some want to twist it around to lay part blame on the buyer/trader to some how justify they are partly at fault and should have knowing better is imo just silly.Then no real proof has been showing that the person indeed did sell it and did not just trade it.Still even so it was thier key to do what they want with not saying I agree as I said it was a immoral thing to do what they did.
But none of this has anything to do with law or legal because no laws were broken.Actually now that I think about it the person who reovoked the key might have broke some law for taken away the key from someone who obtainted it legally by trading/buying it legally it was not stolen.The OP was just upset that it was used in the manor it was but I think revoking it was a step to far.
I do know where I live law says you can not take away what you give someone without a legal cause to take said item back and re-gifting/selling it in my eyes is not a valid reason to revoke a key.They should however be reported and punished but in the end the only person as I said that really has been punished is the person who ended up with the key.
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on G2A if you buy insurance, if your key is revoked you'll get another one or your money back.. shady buyers can scam legit sellers on there fairly easily if they were so inclined to do so.. Since G2A support tends to favor buyers in 99.99999% of cases.. or so I've heard as I've never sold anything on there.. I only buy very limited items on g2a as I don't know the legitimacy of the keys on there.. That part aside I've only purchased keys from developers who have proven to be anti PC gamer.. Namely WB..
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They do have insurance but it does not say much about the site as a whole.While it is good in a way to have that it also shows how bad the site may be operated.
Ebay and many others do not ask you to buy protection to promise you get a working item.They do it for profits as they would not offer that if the site had a high volume of complaints of bad keys.It just another way to generate income there idea of microtransactions.Heckit is nothing new Cell phone companies charge an average of 11 bucks a month to insure your phone and in two years that is an average of around 240 pure profit if no claims made.
Also Ebay works the same way pretty much 99% of the time they side with buyers when it comes to buyer protection but at least that is a free service.
In the end, I will share I do not approve of those sites but I am not here to tell someone how to spend thier money.That they are to blame for being scammed for using such site.
Thing is being scammed is a two party deal so nobody is 100% at fault but that still does not disqualify you from being a victim despite that.
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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make because you didn't say much I wouldn't more or less agree with.
Living is a learning process. Some do their homework in advance and use a healthy portion of scepticism when buying from the grey market or avoid to do it at all. Others don't. Some of those that don't fall down and scrape their knee. Others are lucky and everything works out fine. Those are the ones we keep seeing here on SG saying stuff like ### no scam site not understanding that the fact that a site is dubious doesn't mean you will necessarily get ripped of on every single transaction.
And yes we should use common sense even when buying from legitimate platforms like Amazon.
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Several times I did my homework before I made a purchase and thought I bought the best product to only find out it was not as great as I thought.I do not blame myself I can not as I did the best I could to make an informed decision.You can not account for everything in life even if you do homework sometimes you still fail.
Every site can and will be dubious at some point so just using the word devious should not automatically make it the plague.
If you look on sites about computers and motherboard RMA from Newegg you find lots of articles about bent pin issues as a mean to reject RMA.Does that now imply that the site over all is dubious.
Somethings never change and one thing that has not is one bad apple spoils the bunch.While I can not suggest using said sites because the proper way to support a Publisher/Developer would be buying from a source that gives them a direct cut of your own money.
Though in end it is no riskier than using any other site they all have there dubious way and you will find people on both sides of the fence.In fact, Amazon/Ebay due to the size of the market is knowing as a good place to sell knock-off and merchandise and cheap junk but that does not imply since you know about it that you are partly to blame if you get a bad product.
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If you're going to fight with Google definitions, expand the definition box first. The attached image has the appropriate definitions boxed in red. To surmise, there is more to innocence than "legal" innocence.
Adjective, definition 1, sub-definition 2: Should a person have sufficient experience with a situation, one may assume that they are no longer innocent.
Adjective, definition 3. By using morally ambiguous services, such as trading, which if rife with keys of uncertain origin, and grey market sellers, the victim loses claim to innocence (and in legal terms, may even be labeled an accessory under certain crimes, even if they were themselves harmed).
Noun, definition 1, sub-definition 2. If you're on G2A buying a key, or SteamTrades trading, you are not there by chance, period.
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liability vs innocence
huge difference, i'm not going to try and explain the english language though.
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You're right. There is a difference. But we're not discussing liability.
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no you're right.. you keep claiming that by trading you automatically lose your innocence and are found guilty or offensive when instead you are merely liable.. but for that same reason you really want to claim that liability is the same thing as innocence.
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No, I don't, and I don't see how you are inferring that. Liability refers to the state of responsibility, which I am not at all touching upon here.
For example, I know full well that I may be scammed at any moment when trading keys, thus I am not innocent to the danger. However, that does not mean that I am responsible for being scammed should the situation arise, unless one may argue that my experience should have lead me to avoid a situation that I may have been known to be a scam.
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you are not innocent to the danger.. you are liable for anything that occurs (i.e. danger)... fixed
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The first one you circled is completely unrelated and you are misunderstanding it.
Second one you'd have to justify the purchase as a morally evil or wrong act.
Third one is tangential.
Anyhow, that's not how definitions work.
You determine if the term fits by using one or any of the definitions, not by having it fit all of the oft mutually exclusive definitions.
You are ignorantly arguing semantics with a misapprehension of how words work...
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Am I now? Then let's use the analogy of sexual innocence. When a person, traditionally a child, is exposed to sexual content or taught about sexuality, they are referred to as having "lost their innocence" in that regard. That is highlight #1: by gaining experience, innocence is lost.
Next comes the moral question. G2A, Kinguin, and other key resellers are referred to as "grey market" for a reason. Their content comes from ambiguous sources, potentially illegal ones such as key generation, database theft or CD key stolen from retail box, or they could be proper sources such as a developer selling their own keys. The buyer has very little way to know which is which, but knows that the possibility is there. Under that circumstance, can somebody who buys a stolen key from G2A then claim innocence, "I didn't know G2A has stolen keys"? Perhaps, though anybody looking to prove such when they could have bought the key from Amazon, GMG (questionable in light of certain incidents) or, I dunno, STEAM, would be hard pressed to do so. By accepting the risk of moral ambiguity, claim to moral innocence is lost should an ambiguous act turn.
In case of definition 3, that was pulled based on the "bystander" comment here.
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https://pay.g2a.com/downloads/agreement_for_accepting_payments_with_G2APay.pdf
how many times is the word innocent or innocence on there?
and now.....
how many times is the word liable or liability on there?
idk about you but i counted 0 & 18
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Your point being? You appear to be the one confusing liability and innocence. As previously stated, there is more to the word that legal innocence, but you seem fixed on that definition.
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yes there is a much deeper meaning to the word innocent (or innocence). but at no depth what so ever does general trading make you void of innocence, unless you intentionally or unintentionally do harm before, after, or during the trade.
i think we both agree this person would be classified as a bystander.. and also liable.. but we differ in our opinions on their innocence.
edit: additionally you could say that the "bystander" has "lost their ignorance" or "void of ignorance" but that too isn't the same thing as "loss of innocence".
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So, you're a relatively experienced trader. Would you claim that you are innocent to the fact that fraudulent keys are traded?
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i would say that i am not ignorant enough to believe all trades will be non-fraudulent and i am liable for anything that may occur during said trading.
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Then I would contend that you are not an innocent trader, but one experience enough to to know the risks involved therein, not denying the chance that a seemingly harmless trade you complete one day may turn out later to have been a key from an illegal source.
Have we come to an agreeable consensus, or at very least an understanding?
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but i am an innocent trader. i've never done any harm before, during, or after a trade. i'm just not a ignorant trader because i'm fully aware that i am liable for all my trades, even if that includes me accidentally trading a key that otherwise shouldn't have been.
if i accidentally did ever trade a key that shouldn't of been, at that point i would no longer be innocent. even though it was a mistake, it's a mistake i would of been guilty of.
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Perhaps you are innocent of causing harm, but not innocent to the risks. Context. While it could be viewed as semantics, the separation of innocent and ignorant can be used as a description of outlook. Ignorance may carry negative connotation, in the sense of lack of knowledge, compared to Innocence, used in the sense of the loss thereof due to the acquisition of knowledge, a positive connotation.
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Whatever the case, I've enjoyed this innocent debate (sorry, couldn't help it) quite a bit, but have no further time for it. May I add you on Steam for a moment? I'd like to send you a WL game as thanks for your time.
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yeah you're welcome to add me, no need to gift me anything at all though. it's been quite an interesting debate though.
english is such a bitch xD lol
by no means did i mean to offend you anywhere, if i did sorry. =)
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Oh, but there is a need. I greatly enjoy debates, arguments, straight-out fights... blame my upbringing (German-Irish Texans with military background - don't accept Thanksgiving invitations from us unless you WANT to fight). And when I enjoy something, I have to give something in return. Call me eccentric (positive connotation) or weird (negative connotation), but it's just my way.
And I too meant no harm, and took no harm from your side. So all is good.
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me2 actually, thanks for it.. kinda needed one. ^^ lol
i really needed the break from copying and pasting a bunch of long links to make goo.gl url shortened links out of them for the DIG thread.. this gave me the perfect break. xD hehe
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Again, as long as any one of the definitions fits the person, the term may be used.
- Yes. It's unrelated.
2 and 3, I'm not going to bother with since you don't seem to understand what you'd have to prove to show that the term innocent doesn't apply.
That said, now, he's corrected himself to using "liable". So, you can give that one a shot.
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It's the fact that "one definition fits" that has lead American English, perhaps all English, to be the nightmare it is (and by extension, the legal system and defining the United States Constitution).
My argument started with opinion, yes, but the point was never to PROVE innocence. My argument was over the fact that the term is by far broader than as defined starting here. In terms of definition 1, if somebody acknowledges a fact, they are no longer innocent to that fact, in this case, G2A being a place to buy keys from potentially illegal sources, for example. Proof may not be easily established on a circumstance, but opinion of state of innocence (whether or not someone used G2A knowing that they may buy an illegal key, for example) may still be formed.
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What are you rambling about???
You really want to spread your propaganda and win your argument you're grasping at straws.
Adjective, definition 1, sub-definition 2: Should a person have sufficient experience with a situation, one may assume that they are no longer innocent.
Keyword: Have,as in enoug
Adjective, definition 3. By using morally ambiguous services, such as trading, which if rife with keys of uncertain origin, and grey market sellers, the victim loses claim to innocence (and in legal terms, may even be labeled an accessory under certain crimes, even if they were themselves harmed).
First off you this is not a black market.Second, while I may not agree with using sites like G2A,ect they do nothing illegal if the keys have not been stolen.Third the only way you would be an "accessory " is if you knew without a doubt what you was being sold was not legally able to be sold.You can go to Amazon and buy a stolen item does that mean you should avoid them at all cost?
Noun, definition 1, sub-definition 2. If you're on G2A buying a key, or SteamTrades trading, you are not there by chance, period.
That implies to everything we do, nobody ends up any place by chance, period.Just to be clear I know what you were trying to say but we are talking about an online market, not some random person being caught at a Brothel and saying I did not know this was a Brothel.Amazon has a market place so if you shall get scammed Amazon can not just blow you off because you should have knowing the risk of buying from someone with uncertain origin of products.At least that is how you seem to imply it works.
In the end, the person who got the key revoked was the victim unless you can prove without a doubt they intended on purpose to get said product by fraud.Just because some of the sellers on these sites/traders may not be legit does not mean you are guilty if that is the case do not buy on Amazon,Newegg,Ebay ect. as they have markets where people may committing fraud and you know it is possible so if you get scammed then you are also at fault and not a victim at least the way you are trying to twist things.
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1: You're a little late, the argument is over.
2: It was a discussion of the meaning of the word "innocent", not the actual actions described.
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I feel bad for the guy who bought the key and wasted his money, but the dude deserved that sold the key deserved a punishment
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Well, if he bought it from some kind of grey market website (G2A, Kinguin) or with Paypal, there is a chance he could get his money back (not guaranteed though). I really hope he does and that the seller now loses on that money and hopefully even gets flagged on the specific site.
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You seem to have done the right thing, and hopefully Steamgifts permanently bans him. Sadly it's probably just a small suspension.
Might try to get along with Valve to have some reprocursions on his account (like you being funded the game from his wallet) though I kinda doubt that'll actually get any result :/
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You know what's even worse? That guy will be suspended for a few days and will go back to what he's been doing before. Rule breakers aren't really punished ever and it sucks.
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He might get perma-banned over it. It's one thing to regift, but giving/selling to third party would be a more serious offence, I believe.
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but giving/selling to third party
Isn't that the entire meaning of "regifting" (the giving part, not the selling part)?
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regifting = making a giveaway on steamgifts for the same game that you've won without redeeming it on your account
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Ah yes. You're right. Still, I don't think it will be handled any different.
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Actually, regifting also includes giving it away to a friend. (Or giving it away on a different site)
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Yes, I know which is why I stated that selling to 3rd party would be a more serious offence. Since OP hasn't posted any photos to back up their claims of a sale being made, I can only assume that they are not lying and that a sale has really occurred which would put this activity one notch above regifting.
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In both cases it is self-enrichment at the cost of the giveaway creator. I don't see a difference, really. Some trade it, some regift it, some sell it. All of it should lead to a permaban. I've actively discussed this dozens of times in the past, but it never changed anything. So all I can say is that I do not approve that rule breakers are being spared when the driving force behind this website are all the people spending their money on the content it has.
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At the very least, even if first offense is 5 days, future offenses should get harsher, leading to eventual permaban. Some will learn on their first, others will go at it again, and never learn.
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+1 After getting suspended once, there is really no reason to do it again. You should have learned by that point and the next time should just be a perma ban. I'm all for allowing people to redeem themself, but after a suspension you have that chance and if you decide to waste it, it's your problem.
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The worst about it is that firstly I have never seen anyone permabanned for regifting, only multiple accounts, and secondly it seems to be handled on a caught basis - if that makes sense, I don't know how to describe it. Basically I have reported people with over 10 unactivated and regifted games and all they got was a suspension for each game, but they were welcome to return afterwards. Which doesn't make any sense.
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I've seen quite a couple of people permanently suspended for not activations (not always regifting). I think so far I have 3 confirmed kills due to reroll requests :)
Making SteamGifts a better place. One reroll at a time.
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I've had an awful lot suspensions, but never has anyone been banned. Good to know it exists at least.
Still waiting on a ticket for someone that has multiple accounts (over a year now), but he still hasn't been banned.
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I've never had one of my user reports adressed that's why I stopped sending them and switched to just reporting those rulebreaker that win my GAs through reroll requests.
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It depends on how many times they're suspended, not how many games.
If they get caught once with 5 unactivated wins, they get 25 days off.
After that, each time they get caught, they chance being perma'd.
They can't simply be perma'd the first time they're caught, so the first time serves as a warning.
After that they're walking a thin rope, though.
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It's ridiculous in my opinion, although I understand the notion to give someone a second chance (yuck), but if they're successfully regifting, reselling or simply not activating over 10 games why give them a second chance to being with? Also they can simply do it a dozen times again before they get caught a second time.
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What I don't understand is how the accounts aren't marked to some sort of review. If SGtools can do that, why can't SG too?
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Well, I don't know either and it's a mystery to me. That's why SGtools is closing a big gap, though.
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I believe it was Khalaq (I may be mistaken on who) who said that something on the order of 90% of users don't make the same mistake after being suspended once for it.
Those who are suspended multiple times for it do get perma-banned. Seen it many, many times.
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Well... I wouldn't trust that to be honest. 90% don't do it again... First, I'd like to see official data on this and secondly how many of those 90% haven't just been caught a second time?
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well i had a small conversation with him.
he doesnt think he did anything wrong.
he doesnt care i voided the cd key.
he told me he uses a google chrome extension to win many games he doesnt want anyway...
he only sells games in latin america on g2a.
he neither does care what i will do - afterwards i was blocked
Sadly i cant add those screenshots to my support ticket =(
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This is also a reason why it's better to giveaway games for people who have Contributor Level at last 1+ , Less people who are scumbags.
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Or do invite-only forum giveaways to avoid auto joiners. ^^
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There are auto joiners in forum section too, sadly. :/
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That is why I wanted the captchas... But no, people want to use their scripts...
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Anyone who sees my "gifts won" can know I use no scripts but hell no there is nothing on this earth more evil than captchas
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keep them safe though - as support might be happy to have them later :)
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he only sells games in latin america on g2a.
Well, at least the buyer then has a chance to maybe get a refund. In that case the seller would lose his money and might even get flagged (or at least a negative review) making it harder to sell later.
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If you have the mobile app, it should be archived there (at least for a short bit).
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Now it's too late but for future use you can download a little program called "chat logger". It makes a log file of every steam chat you make in the steam client. It's a very usufull tool if you talk to many "friends" and want to check something.
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Sadly i cant add those screenshots to my support ticket =(
Why not? Isn't that what the "Edit ticket" button is for?
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I think I entered nearly every giveaway for this game from you and Zuurix, have it on my wishlist since last May. And it's frustrating to know the people who win these giveaways don't even want to activate it. And for this guy defiantly selling it and telling you he doesn't care? So disrespectful in addition to breaking the rules. Fuck'em.
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Why are they entering Giveaways of games they won't play just for commercial purpose. I honestly used all the keys I won on SteamGifts or any other website I always enter on Games I'd like actually to play. And I'm a trader but never traded Games I won
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And this is why name calling being against rules is stupid. Dickfucks like this should be named and shamed without further questions .
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While I'd usually disagree, in this case it's indeed a shame he can't put a link to his SG profile.
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Too easy to mix with imposters. Then again, I lost hope when peeps mixed up my profile with a lvl 3 with 4 games who ended up scamming them -.-.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you for this case, although it is a rule that if removed can be exploited really badly and lead to brigading, trolling and witch-hunting, and is even more serious when the person being accused is actually innocent. It's a shame, but it prevents greater harm than the limitations it imposes. (And while SG is nowhere near the toxicity levels of reddit, it's still something to take for consideration)
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absolutely wrong. we recently had a case where a new guy gave away expensive games. everyone shouted fake giveaway. turned out, he was legit. and all he got as a new member was that stupid negativity we have here lately. we need the calling out rule for cases like these.
and even in this case - how can you be really sure the OP is not lying? you would need detailed evidence, and someone who checks the authenticity. you would need something like steamrep integrated in SG, with all the extra work this means. because if you don't, you will have fake reports from people who got angry over a trade, over a blacklist entry or whatever.
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This. Sadly, it's too easy to start a witch hunt based on incomplete proof.
If OP has all the proof he requires, then support will handle this in time.
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No, no, no, just no.
You'd have people wrongfully calling out others just because they don't like them (which already happens anyway), or calling out others based on incorrect or falsified "evidence", or calling out the wrong person entirely.
I've seen it way too often already, especially impostors costing another user their reputation.
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Hey, we're calling it alternative facts nowadays! Get your wording right. tststs
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I had a conversation with somebody recently that we already have a Queen (although she hasn't visited her subjects for a while) and an offical SG pet but strangely the positions of King (or President) of SteamGifts have not been claimed yet. I do have to admit President of SteamGifts has a certain ring to it but with great power comes great responsibility so for now I'm content with being just your friendly neighborhood datadog :D
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you can't make exceptions to rules, people will think they can do whatever they want.
oh, i guess it's already happening since calling out is a "petty rule"...
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I would do what you did. Exactly the same but no more than that.
Just wait and hope for a ban but honestly, that is not going to help anything I am afraid.
If it's your business to sell keys a temp ban or even a permaban is not going to stop you?
You just make a new account and start again?
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hopefully, to create a new account you need at 100$ spent on your account, that's not cheap at all.
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tbh i hope that specific user gets permabanned
Me too!
Wish I could block that person, but sharing his info in not allowed. =/
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Hopefully support can detect all of the alt accounts that douche must have been using in addition to the one you found.
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With what right? Did you revoke the key? Not activating won games (including giving them away or selling them) breaks the rules of Steamgifts but that's it, outside this website the key is valid and legitimate and should stay that way. Imagine if bundle sites started to do the same (AKA enforce the TOS they already have in place)!
Lame, lame, lame.
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I would've reported the winner on this site a long time ago (about a week after winning and not redeeming the game). They would've maybe said "oh, I forgot" - but if it is as it sounds, there would've been have several unactivated wins to pick from anyways for support to stop the party.
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the winner you speak of is scum and should be banned
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I'm with you, screw that guy. Maybe it's naive of me but I honestly had no idea that was happening. Guess I need to start checking my winners as well, though I don't do any public L0 giveaways anymore anyway.
Hopefully it gets him banned on <insert resale site here> but probably not.
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though I don't do any public L0 giveaways anymore anyway.
They're everywhere unfortunatly. There have even been people claiming to have seen them at level 10...
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That would be quite the investment to sell some bundle keys!
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Not really. I got to level 6 with mostly bundle leftovers. Games I would have gotten even if I wouldn't have given them away. It doesn't cost anything extra. Sure, it takes some time, but it's not necessarily expensive.
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Aye, same here (L5 at least) but I didn't give away 212 keys in hopes of getting a few back to resell. Getting to L10 would take plenty more to seemingly get a terrible return on investment is all I'm saying. Not saying it hasn't happened (though I would be curious to see proof) but I would say it's astronomically less likely than it is to happen at L0 without, say, an account being compromised or similar.
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Definitly. That's probably why you rarely come across them at higher levels.
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Seems like a steamgifts issue and you should not have revoked the key.
Clearly you abused your power, I would first call you scummy, instead of them.
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Why? I mean if user had made honest mistake he can provide a new key for correct account.
Just letting buyers to get away every time is what is ruining things...
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Because like gbaz69 said, the winner broke an SG rule but he did nothing wrong "in the real world" so what he did shouldn't have "real world" consequences. But I'm on your blacklist so clearly we think differently.
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You mean I'm on your list... Not the other way around.
I don't see problem with disabling key that clearly ended up in the wrong place.
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The way I recall it, I found out I was on your blacklist and added you to mine in retaliation... Removed now.
Anyway, the key is innocent, so to say, and so is the person who activated it. The winner broke SG rules so the consequences should be limited to SG. Like I wrote elsewhere, imagine if bundle sites had the same power - revoke keys when they're used in ways they don't like.
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Like attained by credit card fraud? Where both buyer and seller would make out laughing with the money and rest of us and site would end up with the bill? I see it as exactly same scenario.
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No, not credit card fraud. I'm thinking more about trading, reselling, giving away. You know, the stuff Steamgifts and Steamtrades are all about.
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^This!
Suspension here OK, but abusing steamworks partner to revoke the key...? overreacted... :/
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I'd have reported him/her to SG support with whatever evidence I had, and let them take it from there.
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From FAQ
If you've been unable to reach the winner of your giveaway using e-mail and Steam after seven days of your giveaway ending, and they have not yet activated or redeemed any keys or gifts you attempted to send, please contact support to request a new winner. When creating a ticket, we ask you to include data that suggests you made an adequate attempt to contact the winner, such as screenshots of e-mails, friend requests, or gifts pending on Steam. If the request is approved, a new winner will be generated by the site.
I would've requested a new winner after the week. And if the winner sold the key, first would be report to SG support. If had the chance to revoke the key, i'd do it too.
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For GA's of over 50 keys - as in this case - SG auto gifts the winners...
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Well, as you can see i do quite a few giveaways, but many of these giveaways get abused and some keys land on shady key websites.
3 Months ago some user won one of my public 50x giveaways.
The key wasnt redeemed but he was online almost every day.
4 Days ago the key was activated (i can query keys through the steamworks partner page)
but not on his account...
i reported the user to steamgifts and revoked the cd-key since it was obviously resold
his groups also indicate that he is a friend of most cd key websites or gambling pages.
What would you have done?
I mean reselling promotional keys sucks - i give them out for free and he sells it for 5€+ on youknowwhatwebsite
tbh i hope that specific user gets permabanned
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