Oh crap, the day is here.
Good bye Greenlight, at least you tried.
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Not really, the new system has enough differences to be considered "new".
That doesn't means that it'll be any better but I'm gonna wait a few months before declaring it another failure, it deserves at least a chance.
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Greenlight wouldn't have been a "failure" if Valve pulled games that used some time of bribery to get votes. i.e. A dev could come to Steamgifts and do a ga for a popular game with a link encouraging people to vote on their game. Or those pages that will give you a free key to the game if you do something simple like subscribe to their youtube or something.
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Greenlight would have worked as intended if Valve had used humans to administer it instead of algorithms, but who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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STEAM FLOODGATES IS DEAD! Greenlight
LONG LIVE STEAM FLOODGATES! Direct
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Too bad we can't check on what items we followed or put in our favorites there, I guess. I don't see how we can for now, at least.
edit: I guess you can under the Workshop Items from your own profile, but I wonder if the entire greenlight page will disappear along with all the items you followed or favorited too.
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This is my main concern atm. I have a bunch of games I voted for or favorited that don't have store pages yet so I can ad them to my wishlist :(
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I wonder about games from Grouppes and Otakumaker Greenlight Bundle.
Will they released with strict selection ?
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Over the next week, a team here at Valve will be reviewing the list of titles that have not yet been Greenlit and will be selecting the final batch of titles to pass through the Greenlight process. Our goal is to Greenlight as many of the remaining games as we have confidence in. There are some titles that will not be Greenlit, due to insufficient voter data or concerns about the game reported by voters. Titles that are not ultimately Greenlit may still be brought to Steam via Steam Direct, provided they meet our basic criteria of legality and appropriateness.
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Wait, Valve have actual people do actual work, not automatised?
You're lying right? "A team here at Valve" really means "the bots we hired at Valve", right?
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They just put their workers to click through greenlight like we do and then pick those which someone voted yes on...
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I doubt it. That MUCH human EFFORT is just... not something known to come from Valve.
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The "team" is probably this...
UPDATE [Greenlight]
SET Approved = 1
WHERE (Upvotes - Downvotes) > 5000
AND FlaggedAsFraudulent = 0Comment has been collapsed.
It always worked like this. But at the start of Greenlight, they greenlit less games. After, they started greenliting around 400-600 games per month. Before announcement of Steam Direct, they followed quota. around 600 games per month, with some specific ratio of different genres based on Store demand. It wasn't automated, but it looked automated, because they picked games to fill quota, not only the games they personally liked.
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Are you REALLY sure it didn't look automated since it was automated?
Because that would be the Valve I know.
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Don't forget that it is nearing the end of the spring semester, so they can get a few dozen unpaid interns to do it as a summer job/training.
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A few dozen?
Are they going to hire 2 or 3 interns per Valve employee?
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Time to let more shit in...
said Valve and no-one else :/
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Those additional checks sounds nice. I did not expect Valve to actually think that far.
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Do devs who bought access to Greenlight have to pay for access to the new system or does it carry over?
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It's per game now, so no. (but if they're 'proven', then don't have to pay at all)
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Greenlight Bundle is over.
I feel how few users are crying now, but I do not want to reveal their name. Everyone already knows them ;)
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Long Live Direct Bundles - where you buy games to fund dev's 100$ fee :)
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Probably will be popular. Unlike Greenlight you'll be guaranteed a Steam key after all.
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This game has changed significantly and at this point we won't be providing keys for bundle buyers. Sorry for any inconvenience.
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"Valve sees no reason to give a damn about this direct title scamming users. Proceed as normal. What, you expected IMPROVEMENT? Haha ha ha ha"
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That seems a very possible scenario, where a minimum of 1000 buyers would "fund" a game for 0,10 cents.
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greenlight was a good idea, but its execution was terrible. nothing will change, its still worth to pay the money and then release garbage and earn more with cards via massive giveaways etc.
There should be simply a team at valve which control quality and check candidate games and they should filter out any game what just unity asset and no effort in it.
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They will.
to point out discrepancies that our team may not be able to catch.
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100 people pointing out a game is a scam haven't changed Valve's mind on any of these yet. Why would that change in the future?
(When reporting, scam isn't even an option so little do they care about it)
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Please, look up full info before you talk such things. Noone will be able to " earn more with cards via massive giveaways" because as it's openly said, games will only get cards if they sell enough copies on *steam*. Not on bundle sites, not number of activations from bundles and giveaways, but on Steam. If you really want to pessimistic at least do that about real, confirmed info and not what you made up.
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Because selling your game for 50 cent and giving them away as keys are mutually exclusive activities that cannot in any way be combined or done both?
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What part of "no cards until enough sales on Steam" you don't understand? Most of the card-laundering games sold close to NOTHING on Steam.
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And for Valve between $100 and $5000 is... $100. Refundable.
And they get a part of each market sale.
My faith in Valve isnt so high this likely isnt meaningless PR like Durectitself (for "more crap")
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Where does it say "no cards until enough sales on Steam"? You just invented that part.
What it says in the official announcement is that "games don't start to drop cards until the game has reached a confidence metric that makes it clear it's actually being bought and played by genuine users". They haven't given any detail about what that confidcence metric is, and they are not going to give any information, since they want to keep it secret to avoid exploiting the system ("the confidence metric is built from a variety of pieces of data, all aimed at separating legitimate games and players from fake games and bots"). So please, look up full info before you talk such things.
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Oh, so you can use words as well? Improvement from your recent behaviour :)
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Recent behaviour = posting a dog drawing in one of your old giveaways?
Anyway, I think our personal differences should be resolved privately, adam, without posting funny insinuations in the form of videoclips with descriptive titles.
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I have literally nothing to discuss with you. And fuck me for liking and sharing one of The Prodigy's most known musics, right? Can't everyone constantly complain and whine about random shit that they could google, unlike you. I don't even know why I ever did unblock you on Steam, it was so peaceful before it. And don't bother with answering, I won't read it as you're ignored here as well. Bye, and keep your shit for yourself or for others who has tolerance for that.
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"Invaders Must Die", nice from you, the same day you blacklisted me. Totally by chance, sure, why you were going to lie...
I have tried so hard to understand what is on your mind, why so much hate towards me without apparent reason, but I finally have to give up. I definitely should have selected people in my whitelist a lot better.
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Really nice that you post all those claims because you know that SGIgnore hides the comment and I wouldn't see it, good thing I was told about it. Quality move, really.
You were on my whitelist for years, amongst the first people until you proved in chat day after day what a shallow, vindictive and ignorant person you are who keeps on hating on people and corporations years after they had redeemed themselves, and I won't let you to do the same with me, including me in your conspiracy theories.
You were removed from the whitelist MONTHS ago. And I blacklisted you because maybe I don't want such a person to post retarded dog pictures on my giveaways without any content, while it's perfectly sums up your personality - weird shits without context, then acting hurt.
You defy logic, keep on arguing over irrelevant or opinionbased things and despite how you pose as a nice person, you're filled with hate that just lashes out every now and then, and I want nothing from a person like that. No talking (main reason for the blacklist like I said), nothing. Also I would appreciate if you wouldn't cover with your whitelist as I didn't enter a single giveaway of yours in the past one and a half year, while I just know how... "nice" you really are for a few months..
Also I don't know if you noticed, but I often posted games and music in chat. It's not my problem that you took one out of context...because sure, after being in a chat for 2-ish hours I post a MUSIC video only to mock the person I blocked.
But if you want a video that really has a message? there you go but before you will have crazy ideas that I wans you fucking dead for being annoying, no. Just away from my life, and ignore/block perfectly does that job for me, you won't have to life a finger!. So..
Bye, and keep your shit for yourself or for others who has tolerance for that.
mmmm... This one, still :)
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Well that's a shitty system then. It should count for key activations. This is purely about money and not what people who use the service would want.
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It should count for key activations.
And how exactly would that prevent developers generating 20.000 keys for givaways then, farming the money from the cards like they did so far, hm? That would change exactly nothing on the problem lol.
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NOW you get it.
Just like Direct, same shit, new packaging.
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Or not fully :) So far we only know Steam Direct's 100$ fee to put your game onto Steam. But we don't know the threshold to get cards - look it up, it's a completely different point in their plan to reform the store! Being on steam doesn't mean cards by itself :)
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So you're saying sites like Humblestore and Amazon which sell keys are shit now?
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No, absolutely not. But they won't count into the sales that required for a game to get cards.
Devs will need to sell games on Steam for X amounts of dollars so their game unlocks card drops, that will drop for Steam-bought and key-activated copies as well.
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And that's exactly why I said it was a shit system and why it should count key redemptions instead.
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You need to sell X amount of dollars ($1000) to get a refund of the $100 fee you paid for submitting your game to Steam Direct ("the developer will be asked to pay a $100 recoupable fee for each game they wish to release on Steam. This fee is returned in the payment period after the game has sold $1,000."). In any official announcement it is said that you need to sell X amount of dollars on Steam to unlock card drops.
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I'm sure that the games from keys can contribute to the the card drop unlock. Valve is probably including in the metric not only sales but reviews, number of achievements, play time, ...
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Really can be, but I have some doubts. Really, they are only doubts.
Reviews can be copypasted, and Steam already set a preceden with only Store-bought games matter for review scores.
Achivements can be unlocked by SAM and Valve knwos about times.
Playtime can be idled
And their buzzword for everything is the store-algorythm - idling gives fake playtime and relevancy, just as well as fake reviews.
I would like to see key-based games matter at least because I mainly get my games from bundles, but Valve clearly went to a direction that they only trust their system, as the 2-round review-updates proved, just as well as Steam Direct's Steam sales-requirement. It would be really weird if suddenly they would greet the idling bots with open arms (every gameplay stat is artifically doable, and most games don't contain leaderboards to prove proper playing effort)
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I agree that everything can be faked, but that doesn't mean you can't conclude anything from the data. I imagine that it's possible to mine the game stats to see if the pattern of achievements and play time corresponds to what players normally do. It's probably also possible to analyse review text, cross reference play time and achievements with reviews, that kind of thing. It's also possible to check what range of games a player has bought or is playing and discard players who only own games from the specific publisher.
I have no idea what Valve is really doing there, and they obviously don't want to say exactly what, but I do think it's possible to do something clever enough that does take into account players using keys. I'm sure that sales vs. keys does matter to the algorithm, but I can see enough ways to make keys relevant that I can't say with certainty that they don't matter.
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I try to be optimistic from the key's standpoint, but furthest I would go is that they have way less weight in the final score, decision and such than store-bought copies. (How fun it would be if we're discussing this for X length of time, only to Valve say "it's sekrit" )
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Fee is too low, get ready to some decent games sinking in tons of trash.
bai bai Greenlight, you will be missed ;(
hope they at least will keep our votes, favorites and subs in the memoriam of greenlight
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I have hopes for this. Of course, I had hopes for Greenlight, too.
It's easy to gloat, but Valve made a big step supporting independent voices when they started Greenlight. We live in a greedy world, and a lot of creeps swarmed the gates and piled up the shovelware, but the idea was strong. I'm sure the creeps won't be changing their spots - creeps never do - but a stronger system might do a better job at keeping most of them out and away from proper customers.
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Is there any other thing going to be greenlight's replacement?
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Steam Direct, where there's a $100 submission fee per game (not per account) that you'll get back if the game does well enough.
Steam users won't get to vote on what they want anymore, so Valve no longer has to pretend it's willing to deal with rampant vote manipulation via boost groups, bribes etc. anymore. Now they can fuck up on the screening they say they'll be doing, and they'll be relying on consumer reports to decide what needs to be booted off the store.
Read the community announcement linked in original post (and here: https://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791457287600/announcements/detail/1265922321514182595) for the full details.
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All I have to say about Steam Direct is this: Welcome to shovelware / Early Access approval by Valve, as long as they get $100 first.
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So that's why about 60ish shitty vns got greenlit at the same time.....I see...
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So glad with Greenlight, gets us such quality games like;
http://store.steampowered.com/app/628490/Zen_vs_Zombie_Achievment_Hunter/
or
http://store.steampowered.com/app/625400/Sisters_in_hotel/
Yes, things have much improved... facepalm
Oh look, they got trading cards too. Things sure work fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.
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I should cash in and make game with 1 million achievements :D
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Nah, make Unity Flip Level 1 with 1m achievs, then the next day Unity Flip level 2 with a 1m, then Unity Flip level 3. Again 1m achievs.
Stick all with trading cards, and wane yourself Gaben as money comes in from utter crap.
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/640310/DriveBy_Hero/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/646450/Adventure_Rage/
and every day we will see more trash"games" with +5000 achievements. Sad days 😭
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It's simple. New games can't have cards until they "prove themselves" by selling on steam. So some game creators think that giving their game bunch of letter/sign achievements will get people on board to buy those games... and if enough people buy them, then it will prove itself... and they'll get cards... and then it's all rainbows and sunshine... I guess?
Now, this is the perfect opportunity to "vote with your wallet". Unless you really need bunch of letters for your profile.
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The sad thing is; it's working, since these games HAVE cards.
Which means Valve's algorithm is, as suspected, pure utter fucking trash. Unsurprisingly.
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Are you sure these aren't the old games that were greenlighted a long time ago and are only now getting released? If so, they'd have cards by default from when they were greenlighted.
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I was under the impression the system would be effective immediately for all titles, not just new Steam Direct stuff.
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Yes and no. If something was greenlit a year ago, it falls under the rules that were valid a year ago (some games take time to be realeased after being greenlit and so on). I think changing the rules backwards would be against the law. So they can change the rule and apply it immediately from that point... but only for the games greenlit/direct from that point, not those that were approved before.
I might be wrong, I'm not all-knowing.
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RIP Greenlight
https://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791457287600/announcements/detail/1265922321514182595
There's some checks at least:
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