Thank you all for your hard work to keep this site.
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Thank you for all your moddy work and, every mod else’s, to keep the site going!!:)
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Thanks for all of your, and other mods', hard work!
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Started growing mine since october, but I'm affraid to join a regular job and shave it.
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Depends on the job but you will have so much fun with some cops when they stop you for a regular check up(if you have a longer beard say something like 15-20cm)
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True dat, all of it.
Thanks for all of the effort.
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I sure couldn't do what you do, I take my hat off to you and all the other mods, Khalaq.
Here's hoping things will calm down!
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Thank you friends for keeping this site up. It's very clear to me that is not an easy task, not really. God bless you all.
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Mods should be respected or feared? Looks like this thread aims the second option.
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respected,like they respect you,like i respect you. dunno how difficult it is to do that :S.
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Looks like this thread aims the second option.
You didn't read til the end. Read til the end.
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i did.don't worry. maybe you don't think the same,but that doens't make it wrong
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We actually think the same... but what you said (the first part) was not the point on the original comment (the second part).
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Thank you for taking time and effort for us. Sometimes we need to be reminded that without you volunteers, we can't keep a good community.
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4 years that im here and 0 problems with mods,never suspended..dunno how difficult is it... xD the only "problem" was that my brother and i shared the same ip because we live togheter, and it was resolved in less than 10 minutes xD.
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I pointed out 1 guy doing fake giveaways in all his giveaways. Didn't know it was illegal, BAM... 5x 2 day suspensions (instead of more reasonable 1 day... why multiply by 5 for one mistake? Oh well).
Then another one for "trading" in a grabbing bag bundle where we all were doing it since it made sense, being it was a random games bundle... about 50 people got suspended that day.
So yeah, it would be fairly surprising how easily you get suspended here for stuff that seems logical to do but apparently is ban-worthy.
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well...you have to read a faq...then you will not get suspended ... :p. made a ticket and report them, don't calling out is a rule sadly...but imagine if all people start to calling out the others...it will be a mess...maybe is not the best system,but is the only they have..
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types out giveaway/BPDDA/ then wonders why it doesn't work
Bump and meow
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You check each other? Does that mean other mods felt that the 2 mods who suspended me for opening 2 threads for 2 different suggestions were fair for considering it spam and then later changing it to inappropriate behavior? Lol.
And that one mod suspended me for calling someone a cunt, which was actually a joke, while that same person was calling other users assholes and telling people to shut up left and right, and never got suspended? Is there a superiority of the word cunt over the word asshole that makes it suspension-worthy and not "civil"? I didn't know calling someone an asshole was being civil.
If you can't see the double standards and inconsistency that the mods (well, 2 of them, as far as I know, but one resigned) have when suspending users for inappropriate behavior, you're a part of the problem.
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Inconsistent moderation is a problem... a lesser problem than not suspending for blatantly abusive language at all, as far as I'm concerned. And "they were doing bad things too and didn't get suspended" is never an adequate defense, unless it can be used to show blatant favoritism by a particular mod (and that's rarely relevant, and not a thing to throw around lightly).
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Again, my comment was meant as a joke. The person basically made an entire thread demanding people to stop calling women "cunt" and as a joke I called them a cunt. Kind of like when someone specifically tells you not to do something and you go ahead and do it anyway, just to piss them off. I was not actually calling them a cunt. And I know it was childish, but I was tired of seeing that person make multiple threads about feminism.
And if that was still suspension-worthy, I'm pretty sure there was favoritism, not only because the person I called a cunt was the one calling others assholes and telling them to shut up, which I would say is not a civil thing to do, but also because I submitted a user report against that person and nothing was done about it.
So my point was, I disagree that my comment was suspension-worthy, but if I had to be suspended, then so should the other person. That is a very adequate defense.
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So my point was, I disagree that my comment was suspension-worthy, but if I had to be suspended, then so should the other person.
Well, here's where we fundamentally disagree (without going into the specifics of this case, which I wasn't involved in).
You can raise this as a reasonable point to improve moderation behavior in the future, but it's not a "defense" in the sense that it doesn't make your suspension any more or less wrong in and of itself. (Assuming it was wrong, which again, I have no strong opinion on as I only remember the thread vaguely as one of those I had to hide ASAP because it was flaming all around.)
Forum moderation isn't a court of justice. It's good if it's at least impartial, it's even better if it's perfectly consistent, but failing that, giving someone the banhammer because they're clearly doing nothing but make the place worse at the moment is a good thing to do for the forum as a whole, even if you're not also hammering all the others that are in some way involved. Whether that is because you think their behavior was just slightly below the suspension grade, or you have reason to believe their problem behavior will stop entirely because their beef is only with the other party which is now out of the picture, or there's just not enough time to give everyone their day in court because there's more pressing issues.
Disclaimer: I'll freely admit I'm generally biased in favor of the mods. Not because I have a strong positive opinion on any mod here (I don't see enough moderation behavior to be informed) but simply because I've seen what kind of awfulness the users get up to without moderation. In that sense I consider even bad moderation better than none at all, since at least some bad stuff will get weeded out. Of course it'd be even better if we could all just behave ourselves, but hey...
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I agree that it doesn't make my suspension any more or less wrong, but it does make it wrong not to suspend the other person, when the behavior that got me suspended is the exact same one they are showing. Especially when mine was a joke.
Your logic is very flawed, it makes 0 sense to suspend only one of the people involved, everyone involved should be suspended if one of them is, that's how a fair system works, period. And if we're going down that road, then they are the one that should have been suspended, because it was their thread that prompted me to make the comment, so with them out of the picture there would be no problem. See how flawed that is?
It's exactly because this isn't a court of justice that everyone has time to have their day in court, I'm sure it doesn't take a mod more than 5 minutes to read a user report. And may I remind you that I did send a user report on that person and the ticket was closed without anything being done about it, which means that they read the report and decided it wasn't suspension-worthy.
It doesn't matter what a mod thinks is above or below the suspension grade, there should be a clear guideline on what is accepted and what is not, and everyone showing the unaccepted behavior should be suspended equally. Who decides that "cunt" is above the suspension grade and "asshole" is not? Aren't they both insulting remarks? Are insulting remarks used as jokes allowed? Are insulting remarks used as jokes worse than actual insulting remarks? Are parody threads allowed? The inconsistency and lack of a clear guideline is too much.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the mods do a very good job regarding other categories, but when it comes to inappropriate behavior there is a lot of inconsistency on how things are handled, which puts me in a position very against the mods.
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Especially when mine was a joke.
For the record, I don't think you should use the word "cunt" on a public forum to address people, even as a joke. I know there are dialects of English where the word isn't considered very severe and that would actually fly among close friends, but I take it that's not the kind of dialect you're using and you weren't friends. You can reasonably expect this to be taken the wrong way. Perhaps you even wanted it to be taken the wrong way, or at least it would be hard to tell for an observer.
Who decides that "cunt" is above the suspension grade and "asshole" is not?
If you put up guidelines that spell out such things explicitly, it won't improve things at all. You'll just get people gaming the system, in preposterous, annoying and time-consuming ways, because "it says in the rules I can call them assholes / it doesn't say in the rules I can't call them cunts". The guideline is: don't go in a thread and stir up shit with insulting language because you're annoyed at the subject matter. And no, that doesn't need to be spelled out either, as it falls under the general assumption of civil conduct. And before you now cry out that that "civil conduct" is also subjective: yes, yes it is. That's why the proof of moderation is in the pudding, so to speak.
You can certainly disagree with the mods because you disagree about the actions they've taken; I don't think there's really any way for the mods to take away that disagreement by putting up more explicit rules, though.
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I've never used that word to address anyone in my life, I was simply making a joke, and I don't think anything is off-limits when it comes to jokes.
I wasn't saying put up guidelines spelling those things explicitly, but I was saying there needs to be more consistency from the mods. That's the point I've been making since the beginning, but clearly you disagree with it, so there's no point to this conversation. If you think someone who calls another person a "cunt" should be suspended and someone who calls someone an "asshole" shouldn't, there's no point. The same can be said about that: don't reply to someone with insulting language because you're annoyed that they don't have the same opinions that you do, which is exactly what the other person did.
Like I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree, since this conversation is going nowhere.
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I've never used that word to address anyone in my life, I was simply making a joke, and I don't think anything is off-limits when it comes to jokes.
People have been hauled off airplanes and arrested for less than "a joke." Thankfully, this website is a bit more relaxed than a modern airport.
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I'm sure it doesn't take a mod more than 5 minutes to read a user report
Multiply these 5 minutes with 17762 user report tickets.
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That's only 62 days of work for a mod who works 24/7.
Alright, so staying up for 62 days is perhaps unrealistic. Let's say we put 10 mods on it, then each of them only has to stay up for 6 days. That's doable, even if we account for a few microsleeps along the way. If we're really generous, let's add 4 more mods to keep the other 10 awake.
14 mods, 6 days, all tickets cleared. Let's put those slackers to work, I say! /s
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By the way, as long as we're on this subject, thank you for putting in the options in ESGST to filter threads by user, in addition to the one that applies the filters automatically for blacklisted users. I think this makes for a good way to increase overall happiness and avoid conflicts before they have a chance to predictably escalate, and I wish it was integrated in the main site. Now all we can wish for is the wisdom on the part of the users to apply those filters. :-P
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No problem. I personally don't even use them. :P I dislike the idea of hiding stuff.
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So do I, don't get me wrong, but the past week I saw so much garbage in the forum (with an apparent lack of moderation) that I've started to tag people for consideration on my blacklist. I have never blacklisted anyone before, but if that's the only small, minute way I could possibly encourage people to stop being dicks, I'll take it. And if I can include a filter with that so I don't have to see the next terrible post they'll make and I can remain just that tiny bit happier, I'll take that too.
I don't want to be lose faith in humanity every time I open the SG forums. :-P
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I'm not much active in the community, so I think I missed whatever happened in the past week, but SG is constantly full of drama these days, so I can understand those who want to stay away from that. But I'm not personally affected by it.
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I think its been mentioned a million times but a big problem is there are no defined rules of what is deemed "inappropriate" more defined rules and dedicated forum mods are needed is a site so vast. The mods do their best with the team they have at the time they have with the rules they have to work with. If several people spam and you get flagged for it on that day, a blanket ban is probably the easiest solution and you get caught up in it.
I don't think it was personally aimed at you though, I don't think the mod team have time to be malicious. However inconsistency is a thing that stems from the lack of defined parameters. I've filed reports for being called a cunt before and aforementioned reports have just been closed with no explanation.
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Just the mods having a conversation between themselves should already remove a lot of inconsistency. But I highly doubt that they check with each other like mentioned in the OP, at least on a lot of cases, because if they did then there wouldn't be so much inconsistency. Instead, we get situations like yours. Your situation is even worse than mine, because in my case I called the person a cunt and they called someone else an asshole, so the mods could try to make excuses that "cunt" is worse than "asshole", although both fall under the category of insulting remarks. But in your case you were called a cunt and the other person still wasn't suspended, so clearly if staff checked with each other that wouldn't have happened.
But if the mods were always checking with each other, then they would be wasting a lot of time, so having a conversation on some basic principles would already help a great deal. Like, calling someone a cunt is either acceptable all times or not acceptable all times, there should be no middle ground.
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The problem would then be time to workforce. They cant discuss literally every case completely and its neigh on impossible to have a defined ruleset of words deemed inappropriate. Especially with multiple languages, so many times broken English comes across as rude or offensive, just like saying "I don't understand" may offend the speaker. You just have to trust the mods are doing their best to remain fair and impartial.
I've been in your position of frustration but I do think it is genuinely a thankless impossible task.
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You just have to trust the mods are doing their best to remain fair and impartial.
No, I don't. Mods are not error-free and should be challenged on their actions.
It's not impossible to have a basic defined set of rules and suspend both users who are showing the exact same behavior instead of just one of them. It's not rocket science.
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No one is error free but there is a way to challenge decisions made by mods.
Its impossible to define subjective actions an offensive word to me might be seen as ok to you.
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By creating tickets? They are just closed down without anything being done or any explanation.
You're clearly missing my point, so let's stop this discussion, because we're going nowhere.
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Thank you and sometimes some hammertime are needed.
And as always, Bump!
hey look I know how to do all these stuff
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I've just started watching Naruto, and I'm wondering if it gets better ? It's not that I don't like it at all so far, it's just that...I expected it to drag me in right at the start, like Attack on Titan or Death Note did. So, does it get better ? Right now I find it a tad too childish and light.
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beware tha rulez or get redy for Hammer™-Time :D
dudu dudu du di di du didi earwormtime
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What a shame this message is even needed!
Keep up the good work and hopefully less hammering is needed!
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"Don't keep making the same mistake. " I know a certain person who posts here and has made MANY of the same posts with no real punishment.
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I really don't like that I keep repeating myself, but any chance for a proper rules / guidelines/faq update that will include the various information from all kinds of announcements? Like we have a different topic for levels and CVs, the recent change about free-giveaways is in the FAQ but the wording is just the slightly changed version of the original... I joined relatively late in the SG1 era so I don't know the beginnings, but despite how focused a part of community is, and how consistant the moderation tries to be if not understaffed (sorry. I see the trying, and the problems as well) the site's rules-guidelines-faqs-whatevers are superhard into the beating around the bush category. Suspension times are hidden. There are no "rules" just guidelines filled with "may". The two main info topics miss fundamental information about how the site is working (like the levels, real CV calculation, etc). It's the case of I can use it because I've grown used to it and lived through many changes, but it's a chaotic mess for a newcomer who would need like 4 different tabs open to even be able to find an answer for a question, and getting the general idea is even harder than that.
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Unified documentation and more explicit and up to date rules are definitely needed, but I don't think it's a priority for CG. And my alternative FAQ initiative didn't really take off, so I closed it.
As things are now, newcomers will be smart to just lurk in the forum a bit before actively participating. And if not, they'll just make a few more mistakes, perhaps be suspended once or twice. No biggie.
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Don't antagonize the Mod. Mods only call you out when they feel required to do so. Making excuses only irritates them.
Oh fuck off.
The whole post basically reads as some "thin blue line" bullshit, and it's got to be at least the third thread you've made in the same vein. You present some blanket appeal to authority to justify whatever vague premises you're alluding to as if they're universally understood instead of citing specific examples with the hopes of.actually curbing that behavior.
It's sort of a running theme. Even if you are right about whatever it is you're meaning to talk about, then It's nonsensical to expect meaningful behavior changes and people paying attention to rule enforcement when the issues, individuals, and consequences are kept to the shadows instead of publicly available. The purposed evasion of drama from the privacy ironically does the opposite; and has only created more issues for a place that already won't shut the fuck up about drama and pursues to meta-level "stop the drama" drama. You need transparency to provide examples of expectations and results, and to backup yourself here too with this sort of thread.
When this causes you so much grief you can walk away, and perhaps you should. I mean.for fucks sake, its a voluntary position as an internet janitor on a website where people give out free shit to other people. If you really think there's some widespread issue with whatever you're alluding to then another mod will likely step up to make their own propaganda post--and might do a decent job of explaining the problem--but since that's not happened I'd heavily advise making this the last of these threads and encourage more self-reflection about the source of your frustrations,
Either-way should you or any mod start talking about the rough and tumble world of modding in another one of these threads then you'd be well-served to at least address some of the year old user reports despite their complexity instead of just leaving them to rot because of that same complexity. It might be simpler enforcing some strict literal interpretation of unimpeachable rules and playing babysitter on the forums you're casually browsing anyway, but focus on whatever people actually seem to care about instead of enforcing some esoteric technical violations that bother none. You might even make a good dent in the origin of whatever forum problems manifesting and morale that you perceive.
Consider recently the silly way you stomped your feet closing the DIG thread and shouted of insolence. That wasn't the sort of "self-promotion" the majority give a damn about; the benefits far outweighed the 'cost' of one simple thread. There's such an obvious interest in a direct line of communication with one of the more popular sites here considering the cheap full-cv games often popping up on their marketplace. Instead of fostering that relationship--even utilizing it to help keep the bundle-game list current--you tossed it aside, and with a personal touch as some affront to your authority. You clearly disregarded common sense pursuing this technical application of the written rules--as interpreted with emotional investment ironically enough--to resolve something totally not worth giving a fuck about anyway,
There's nothing common sense about it, and I'm pretty confident it wasn't the only time common sense flies out the window when modding which makes that 3rd premise even more ridiculous. And all that shit is true without even honing in on the thread's utility to the posters here (as distinguished from interests concerning this site), which is a matter deserving to be nearly as dominant guiding your decisions if there's any consideration of practically when modding at all...
The appeal towards pursing common sense is a damn good point---but pointed at the wrong party entirely.
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Consider recently the silly way you stomped your feet closing the DIG thread and shouted of insolence. That wasn't the sort of "self-promotion" the majority give a damn about; the benefits far outweighed the 'cost' of one simple thread. There's such an obvious interest in a direct line of communication with one of the more popular sites here considering the cheap full-cv games often popping up on their marketplace. Instead of fostering that relationship--even utilizing it to help keep the bundle-game list current--you tossed it aside, and with a personal touch as some affront to your authority. You clearly disregarded common sense pursuing this technical application of the written rules--as interpreted with emotional investment ironically enough--to resolve something totally not worth giving a fuck about anyway
Wow. I wasn't aware of this and fully agree with your view. I wonder what else I missed...
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That a post/discussion like this is necessary at all...
well. Can't find that gif anymore that said "You can be everyone you can imagine on the internet - but you decided to be an asshole" and it was my go to gif when i worked as voluntary support fro an browsergame some days back. People are awesome...(please notice the sarcasm tho xD)
Will edit this post when i come across it again :/ Thanks anyway for your effort and keep up the great work! :)
Have some Whack-a-mole for so long:
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I've been a mod before and it's crazy how people just assume it's a full time paid job, or treat it as such. And what made you think you were allowed to have a life outside of it when so many urgent things are going on like "it's been 2 days and that person still hasn't activated his/her win, what do I do??"? ;)
Thanks for the hard work you put in so we can enjoy a nice place to kick back and relax. It's a rare thing nowadays and it's most appreciated.
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Lately, I've been on a tear, hammering people left and right, and I'm not the only one. Despite rumors to the contrary, we Mods are in communication with each other and fairly consistent in our responses. We do this because we "check" each other. If one of us makes a mistake, the others are there to correct it. If one of us needs help with something, the others are there to lend a hand. We work as a team, and we let each other know what is going on with the site.. As a result, it is inadvisable to try playing us off against one another.
With that said, I would like to remind our users of some common-sense techniques for staying out of trouble. We Mods prefer to let our community police itself, but some individuals have been lacking in common-sense, recently. Here, then, is a cheat-sheet to avoiding The Hammer™.
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