Do you accept the Terms and Agreement for Paid Mods?
I look forward to the first lawsuits. Either from copyright infringement, damages or even not paying tax. Hope everyone who jumps on this has adequate legal protection.
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Why some people are so against paid mods is beyond me.
Remember that nice mod that never finishes or gets abandoned? The many started that doesn't see the light?
Why on earth people creating content of their own volition can't receive for it?
Are people supposed to spend their free time doing stuff for you for free? Really?
The fact that some and many do doesn't change things. If paid mods brings even one stellar mod worth the money id gadly pay for it- with much way more gusto then any bethesda dlc ever will. Sincerely.
Does it open the 'gates' for many small mods (and bad ones) attaching a price when it wouldn't ever before. Sure thing.
Will this people become well regarded in the community for what they make? If bad and small mods do get some cash won't be much- they will end up buried by the good ones, free and paid.
1) Those that mod small and want to really cash in will have to start putting more effort and mods to make it worth their time- we end up with more mods.
2) Money=Picky buyers=Competition - people modding for cash means more effort and better mods on the long run.
3) If your paid mod breaks/doesn't work with famous ones you will get less buyers - more mod compatibility in the long un
Is this bethesda being greedy and wanting a cut? Yes. Thats a companny being a enterpise business.
Does that gives money only to bethesda or more for then? Nope.
I couldn't care less if bethesda is taking their cut and ever so more profit- if the hard working deserving modder is getting the most of the cash this is a PLUS on my view. They freaking deserve it.
'Oh modders can make links for donations'. Will you really throw that argument? Tell me how many modders you tipped/donated. Tell me how much of your used and essential and most liked mods you donated for.
In their minds people like to think they're more rewarding then they actually are. When it comes to money people aren't- i know throwing guess-statistics is dumb but in this case it applies- we can guess around 98-99% of people who enjoy a mod don't tip in any way even if they like to think of thenselves as tippers. Some may tip some modders but far less then they could and perhaps should if we're talking supporting modding scene more.
Longtail profits for gaming isn't bad.
Bethesda making this work opens up the way for other games and eventually smaller titles as well.
My relationship with bethesda rpgs has always been hate/love. I Hated upon playing every. single.one. of their titles- in their vanilla form.
I just hate how unchallenging, shallow, unbalanced 'you can be everything consequential-less' they are. How story wise most fall short and shallow and generic. How it falls short of potential. How the immersion of first-person with many interactions rpg is awesome but they end up disapointment me on pretty much every level.
Fallout: I can resume fallout 3 to some areas and moments of brilliance and really engaging story. They nailed pretty well some parts, they make up for their unfalloutness in epicness in many parts.
But for every right they make at least 2 if not more mistakes. They hurt the ip they bought(my most beloved one ever- so yeah im picky). They bring dumb story choices, shallow quests, unfitting difficulty and gameplay elements.
Skyrim is even worse. It have like 2 top 3 moments (we're talking 10 minutes to half an hour) tops of specific worthy moments. For every great emergent moment theres dozen more hours of shallow and short, easy and wasted potential.
If id could resume my impression of bethesda in rpgs is: sellouts with little creativity that happened to find, create and improve upon what is probably the BEST formula for rpgs ever- the most immersive and fitting one ever... wich happens to be in the hands of some of the most boring rpg writers ever. Bioware isn't far behind but damn bioware have some saving graces titles.
They do well on tech/format. It lacks however all soul.
...but then comes mods...
And turn those bland under-realized games into the BEST one could play.
So yeah, support for then, go for it
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Are people supposed to spend their free time doing stuff for you for free? Really?
Say that to Bethesda
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If only everyone had endless supply of wealth. Then this would be a perfect way.
But since many don't, this is as good solution as corporatism is to the world. We can talk about what is fair to the modders and how they should gain for their efforts. But if profits is presented they would easily follow the same greedy path as any corporate does. Minecraft would be one example where some famous modders actively prevent others mods from working due competition. That is just one small example of what would happen when there is competition over money. The fallacy of competition over money doesn't usually benefit the consumer.
It is a long broad discussion, just like capitalist world would be. Personally though I find the current way better for consumers.
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Damn. I was unaware of minecrafts modding community.
Guess jerks happen everywhere.
Those are good points, i pointed some myself and a bunch of modders putting pay walls and fake mods crash gabbers will surely appear (they try to do it with whole standalone releases fgs, of course they will mod).
Question is wheter this should prevent the good that may come out of this direction. Its a openended question.
Not saying Bethesdas way is correct- i don't even know the details; But that this might be worth the effort.
Either way if theres a positive (more positive then negative- it will always have the negatives) way to do it we will only find it by trying.
Gamers backlash upfront do more harm then good- if this take doesn't work believe me no preconception or early backlash is necessary. They can and will sink on their own.
I fear whoever that a good new take with potential sink from gamers too eager to disaprove too soon.
I imagine a proper direction will involve curation and filtering (to prevent fake mods, etc, etc).
The biggest danger i see that Bethesda will probably indulge is making it so so that is harder or nil impossible to get mods outside their fancy project. This in particular is terribad business evil that can undermine plenty of good mods/modders.
But since im not a fan of bethesda as company i have hopes that even if they shoot their own foot it could pave the way so other companies and titles follow a similar path but, as competition instill inovation, do it 'differently' then 'the wrong bethesda practices' - and here is where i invest my hopes, where a good balance can perhaps be reached.
Either way we will only see a good outcome/balance by trying.
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Why some people are so against paid mods is beyond me.
We're not. The idea is great. If anyone else was doing it, we'd be cautiously anticipating the matter.
No, we're against Bethesda- who already leeches off the work of modders to make up for their own minimal efforts in game development- and Valve getting the majority cut from someone else's work. The original paid mods scheme had them getting 75% of the profits, and not putting any curation into the mix. It was an "Anyone can post anything, charge whatever they want, and we get huge profits" combined with "Valve won't guarantee or refund the mods" affair. It was a complete ripoff of the consumer base and the modder base alike- and, frankly, extremely typical behavior for both companies involved. Furthermore, Valve and Bethesda made the process as unfriendly for the modders involved as possible.
Creation Club thus far seems to only differ in having "curation", but given that there have already been previews of Club catering to plagiarized mods, this may be a loosely applied term, at best. Likewise, neither company seems to have taken any time to directly address any of the previous concerns, or indicate that they'd been considered.
Again, most of us don't mind (and would otherwise even be willing to support) the general concept- we just have some fairly justified concerns with the specific implementation. You're confusing a lot of details- for example, you reference "gamer backlash upfront". It wasn't "upfront", it was reactive to a lot of bad decisions on the part of Bethesda and Valve. Moreover, we already have established free mods as being a functional, reliable resource. "Sinking the ship before it sails" is a course that can only benefit us (keeping us in stable, consumer-friendly waters), until Bethesda and Valve are willing to approach the matter with a perspective that's less based within their typical hands-off, cash-grabby nature.
Think of it like Wal-Mart promising to implement a $5 cover charge just to enter the store, to make up for air-conditioning costs [despite them already having more than enough profits off their products to make up for such expenses]. If we boycott the store before they implement that change, it'll be far more likely they'll take us seriously and disregard the idea, than if we wait for them to implement it and get invested in maintaining it.
And, unlike Wal-Mart, where we're inclined to immediately start shopping at other stores if they do go through with such a thing, digital goods that successfully implement such procedures tend to get surprising amounts of support from the portion of their user-base that is less considerate toward financial concerns. It can be quite the challenge to reverse such practices once they've been established.
It's far better to make sure we've got something that's somewhat stable to begin with, than get stuck with something that is, bluntly put, awful.
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You misunderstood curation. Curation in this case means "please upload your mod files to our system, thus officially reverting every part of their rights to us, so we can continue ripping off ideas and directly copying your files into our next game without the whole Fallout 4 debacle ever happening again."
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Whoops. Cross-checking the Bethesda definition, I see that you are correct. Unlike me to make such a significant grammar mistake as that- but I guess that's the challenge of dealing with foreign languages. Can't say I've any plans on becoming more familiar in the nuances of "Lazy Self-Centered Greed", so please continue to translate it for me where necessary.
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It was only a matter of time. When corporates want something happen, it will eventually.
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not a fan of paid mods....... but i do give in to those modders who create great content hell look at enderal as instance and there's lots of other quality mods out there that the creators deserve some more love.... i also think that's why modders should have a paypal link or so like many streamers have so ppl can donate to them as a symbol of the apreciation for the hard work they had and of how much they enjoyed the mod
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I'm only really for this if modders get 100% of income with no cut taken by bethesda.
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Could we at least stop with the "It's a company, obviously wants to profit. It has to make money"? That's not a valid argument.
Last time I saw, we used to think that ethics SHOULD be an issue. That profit at any cost it's immoral, and a bad thing to do. If Bethesda needed more employees to provide more content (or god forbid, a bug-free game) could hire this people like everybody else.
Mods are different. You are tarnishing a good colaborative effort, with the promise of pennies.
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I honestly am surprised they went this route. Were heading down the road where were gonna have to buy the base game + expansions + mods. We need more companies like CD Projekt RED.
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Indeed. Nowadays we are paying for broken game launch products and Companies are like, "You want a Technical Patch to fix bugs and Glitches? Please Pay $$$. Our Patches are now DLC"
It no longer justified the End Product and the price tag.
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Meh - they also don't/didn't respect regional pricing, so why should I support them as well?
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I see this going well for modders - if Bethesda pays well - but for many of us average Joes and Janes there is nothing in for us.
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Till Modders learn they will no longer have support from the community and realize the ruse of a Scam it has become
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If they don't put fair prices, I'll just pirate it. No biggie. xD
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It took awhile but I finally able to play the Arr Version for Dishonord 2 and the game is still plague with Performance issues that its so not worth its price tag unless it goes way below the current discount it has to offer (even though they recently reduced the based price)
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/598110/Fallout_4__Creation_Club/
Fallout 4 - 1500 CC Credits - $14.99 😧
Question - will people bomb Fallout 4 with negative reviews?
Answer - yes 😎
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EU is actually cheaper, gotta buy tons to support this pricing!
(13€ vs $15)
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just checked video on Creation-Club store page 😧
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When the video was originally release there was a lot of backlash for that same reason but apparently it was just a joke in reference to the "Horse Armor" for Oblivion.
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Because some modders will delete the Nexus version and offer it only for money?
I am getting ready again for mod piracy, assuming the pressure from the sane people won't be enough this time again to sweep away the brain-washed fanatic Bethboy crowd and this entire concept.
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not everyone will move to paid mods and even if half of them do, there's a lot of content available for "free" users.
and yes, there's always the DirectDownload™ option. 😎
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What a weird ethical conundrum. Modding is something where you normally give full respect to a modder's wishes [and wouldn't consider pirating their mods (unless pirating is something you do to begin with) just because they want to charge for it]. On the other hand, if they support something as consumer and modder unfriendly as Bethesda and Valve's take on paid mods, then does that make them 'illegitimate' enough that we no longer have to treat them with respect?
I'd love to see modding get established as something supportable [though, as V:tMB alone proves, with its 13 year long and ongoing fan support, modding can already do more than well enough as-is], encouraging even richer contributions..
But frankly, we're not actually likely to see too many more mods out of it (as people inclined toward modding already engage in it, and those that aren't inclined likely wouldn't give us anything of quality), and the modding landscape as a whole is going to get far less friendly and fun and accessible under the influence of massively overpriced publisher charges supported by modders who are just glad to have any income from their work at all, no matter how scammy the overall arrangement may be.
Add in how mods are, more often than not, based in other foundational mods, and you could see this arrangement not only greedily leeching funds from the player-base, but offering them less worthwhile mods for their troubles, as mods themselves have fair odds of ending up more barebones than before [or, at best, requiring several layers of payment to function].
Even putting aside Bethesda and Valve handling this matter with all the grace and consideration of a starving child left alone in a candy store, there are a lot of considerations to address in the matter. Of course, "the easiest, laziest solution is the best solution" mantra of the companies involved means that such considerations are going to reliably be swept aside without thought.
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Wow. Look at those recent reviews.
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They earned it. I love many of the Bethesda franchises - but that doesn't mean I have to support bullshit. Much of the popularity of Bethesda games and much of their sales have come from healthy free mod communities. They made huge amounts of money from people buying their games to enjoy stuff that modders made for free or even just play their games with basic bug fixes they couldn't be bothered to sort out themselves. And now they don't just want to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs - they want to violate the dead goose in its butt.
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I see there 2 Problems, one of it with the potential to destroy the free mod section almost fully.
1) Slave Paid Modders who will start to sue creators of free Mods because they see some parts of their Mod copied.
Up to the Point where u wont even make free mods of fear for lawsuits. Especially since i await people going into the paid mod category only to do that and profit out of it. < i see there a real danger for free mods.
2) People adding Skins of rl Weapons / Cars / whatever without even having the allowance of the Brand.
If you have a free mod this Brand owner might oversee it but you can be sure as hell if you start that in paid mods that many of them will start to sue the modder if not even Bethesda by supporting and profiting out of it.
Whats your thoughts on this 2 Points?
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I can already see both going up in flames everywhere because there were bunch of stories of "Stolen Mods" everywhere with Claims this and that.
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http://kotaku.com/bethesda-announces-creation-club-for-fallout-4-and-skyr-1796008701
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-12-bethesda-unveils-creation-club-a-kind-of-paid-for-mods-initiative-for-skyrim-and-fallout-4
http://www.pcgamer.com/bethesda-announces-creation-club-which-looks-like-a-new-paid-mod-system-maybe/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/bethesda-creation-club
Seems they really want Full Control over Modders and kill off the Free Modding Community.
Extra Info: Bethesda has also decided it was wise to Jack up the Triple A gaming prices ignoring the Standard Prices.
They ignore Regional Prices and GDP.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/612880/Wolfenstein_II_The_New_Colossus/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/601430/The_Evil_Within_2/
V Rather than a DLC for the Based Game, they decided to make it a StandAlone Main Based Game V
http://store.steampowered.com/app/614570/Dishonored_Death_of_the_Outsider/
V This one is the biggest Scam I've ever seen V
http://store.steampowered.com/app/611660/Fallout_4_VR/
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