The majority of the comment in this tread. Sharks frenzy
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I voted like 230 items(games and "software") and I pressed many times the "red button" No. I saw so much things like this:"comment and receive it for free". The most recent one I saw was(so funny reversing the letters :P) CastleMinerZ that if you vote yes and send a screenshot for some mail, you would receive a full copy for free. At least they didn't advertised this in their Greenlight page, I made a little search cuz it looks interesting.
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Well, in the end only Valve is to blaim for this as they seemingly have absolutely no desire to maintain a certain level of quality in their catalog and just sells everything that might send a bit of money their way.
Greenlight was a good idea, but unfortunately a lot of the products are utter crap. They should remove early access and only showcase finished products and then a certain amount of pre-orders should result in the software getting greenlit.
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No. Kickstarter games are pre-development/in development, these should be finished games only.
Pre-ordering in this context means ordering a finihsed game (demo should preferably be availible) that is not yet on Steam. If only a few people buy the title it will not get greenlit and you won't get charged for your purchase and the game is removed from Greenlight. The pre-order should run a few months I suppose and a year or so after failing to generate enough pre-orders the game can have a second and last attempt.
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Valve never really seemed to care about the quality of items available through Steam. It just didn't show as badly before Greenlight.
Greenlight exists because Valve didn't want to review submitted games. Valve already waved through games by "trusted publishers" (where "trusted" simply meant the publisher already had a game on Steam.) But the growth in commercial indies meant that Valve was getting more games by publishers not already on Steam. More than that, Valve was increasingly taking heat for rejecting "fan favorite" games (while waving some train wrecks through) and it was becoming publicized just how awful Valve's review process was.
Valve's solution wasn't to improve their approval process, but rather to crowdsource it and just review the top items. That still ran at a glacial pace, even though there were suspicions that Valve was just rubber stamping top titles without even applying their review process. Their most recent fix has been to just rubber stamp much larger numbers more frequently.
Gabe Newell's idea of turning Steam into an open storefront itself came from not wanting Valve to deal with the whole approval process.
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From the Dev blog on what is wrong with Greenlight:
"The experience I had with Mosaico brings to light what, in my opinion, is a big shortcoming of Greenlight. Positive votes (hence the chance to be published on Steam) started to increase after I had inserted an engaging video and an interesting promotion. But the software itself didn’t change! In other words the current Greenlight mechanism rewarded my ability in communicating my work, but not the work itself. Every developer who has tried to sell his game/software knows how marketing is a difficult and time-consuming task. I, as a developer, saw in Greenlight the opportunity to be relieved from an hard duty. I saw the hope to focus on developing an excellent software, leaving to Greenlight the big chore of promoting to a vast audience."
I can't believe this guy... Greenlight is not a marketing tool. It's a tool to get onto Steam. Where the hell did he pull this idea from? You cannot sell a product on the internet without WORKING to advertise it. This isn't a shortcoming of Greenlight; it's reality. It's the business world. It's human nature. People generally don't notice things that aren't trying to draw their attention! WOW big surprise!
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Actually, Valve has said that part of the purpose of Greenlight is to ensure that any game that gets added to Steam already has a built-in follower base from the people who followed it and voted for it there. So part of its purpose is to serve as a marketing tool -- you think Valve is totally disinterested in the fact that Greenlight helps a lot of new people see the game as they vote on their queue, gives them an easy way to bookmark it, and provides a chance to sell it to them when it's greenlit?
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"purpose of Greenlight is to ensure that any game that gets added to Steam already has a built-in follower base" Um, exactly my point...? So its purpose isn't to DO the marketing for the dev. It makes sure a game has enough demand. It's still the dev's job to increase that demand; not Greenlight's. And yes, it does help visibility as people go from one item to the next in their queue but that's NOT it's purpose. Greenlight is NOT intended to do all marketing work for the dev and that is what this dev is saying.
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Hello, I'm the author of Mosaico. I'd like to post here what I also posted on Steam as a response to some comments. Thank you!
"@Jur thank you for taking your time to express your ideas here :) Reading your comment I suppose you have never used Mosaico, I suggest you to do so by downloading it from www.soulidstudio.com
Promoting a software on Greenlight isn't that easy, since many users here are mainly interested in games. Being a small studio (basically me and few collaborators) we don't have the money to pay for a big ad campaign. So I thought it would have been a good idea to give Mosaico for free to whoever wanted to share his thoughts about it. The campaign has been successful, I'd be glad if any other studio promoted his game/software with this method.
The post you mentioned on www.soulidstudio.com isn't a rage post at all, I suggest you to read it again. It was proposed also on GL developers forum in a discussion on how to improve GL process."
"
@Jur what you call a "shameless way of getting to Steam" is in my opinion one of the few things a small studio can do to promote its software. It isn't even the first time that something like this is done.
For example the creators of Anodyne (great game) and McPixel (another great game) put their game on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (thus giving them for free) to promote them. Whenever you see a sale on Steam it is only a "shameless way" of earning money selling something to more people.
On top of that, Mosaico's promotion only required users to leave a comment to provide some feedback, but nobody was required to vote "yes" in order to get a free key. I can't understand all this hate, I'm sorry you do not agree with our promotion but I don't feel like we did anything wrong or immoral.
I am indeed very proud of being able to publish my software on Steam, and I have to thank everybody who made it possible and helped me. I feel the free key is even underwhelming as a reward for what voters made.
Good luck to you.
"
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First of all, congrats on getting your product greenlit. As you may have noticed from the majority of the replies here, reading isn't always involved when it comes to getting things for free.
Anyway, I'd like to differentiate your piece of software and the Greenlight process, because I'm not personally interested in the software. But I agree with you on the method of garnering more interest for your GL campaign, it's totally within the rules of the system, so I can't see why people dislike it so much.
Since Valve isn't yet up to the task of creating a process where the product's quality is mainly defining whether it reserves a spot on their store. Most of it is up to the marketing of the campaign creators themselves right now. You see alot of "buying" votes for promising something in return (keys,giveaways etc). I view it as very similar to a political campaign where they do the same thing to get people to go vote on their party, instead of convincing them through their standpoints and policies.
Some might considers it unclassy, but right now it is the most common way to get your product through GL if you haven't got a large fanbase (AVGN) or are driving a hype train (Surgeon Sim). Not by choice but by design.
EDIT: on the subject of your GL improvement proposals, I can see where you are coming from. But I can imagine the idea of a subscription fee being related to any part of Steam would be a scary thought for the users. Even though it is has nothing to do with the rest of Steam, it could potentially raise alot of protest in fear of being locked out of even more services.
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Thank you!
What I proposed on that blog post was substantially to move GL to a subscription service where people could actually TRY the software before voting, not voting on it based on a short video. That would improve quality of accepted software and the number of users interested in GL, IMHO. I can't see any people scared by this, since it is exactly what Sony does with its PS+ service. If you subscribe you can access a lot more content, if you don't you still can buy games as PS+ didn't exist.
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Yes and I agree on the part where you actually test the content instead of promises (a reverse Molyneux) and let it prove itself. Of course we both know what it would entail when there is such a premium feature implemented for the Greenlight.
What I mean was that I could see where having several tiers being set up in Steam, as it stands, isn't exactly a welcoming thought for most people. Being more like console services is not usually seen as positive either. I guess if you would just make sure to segregate GL entirely from the store and community and make it its own thing, it could work. As long as they communicate it better than Microsoft has done lately and ensure the rest of Steam will stay the same.
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1: You think the greenlight system is bad.
2: You prove your statement so easily, so smoothly it hurts. :D It was the stupidest bribe ever, but it doesn't really matters, 'cause your campaign was FREE and still 100% efficient. You didn't even had to give away 5k $ worth of games (shots fired).
At this point no matter what people think, say or do, you already won. And I really hope, others will follow your path. Even if Gabe removes your program (wild guess - maybe after 1-2k reports they start to worry; thanks to this thread you might get 100> ,including mine, these gonna have no effect at all) you already got what you wanted.
TLDR: Good job man.
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I didn't break any GL rule, so I don't think report letters will have any effect ;)
TLDR: thank you!
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On top of that, Mosaico's promotion only required users to leave a comment to provide some feedback, but nobody was required to vote "yes" in order to get a free key. I can't understand all this hate, I'm sorry you do not agree with our promotion but I don't feel like we did anything wrong or immoral.
I'm really curious if you're that dumb or think we in general are that dumb. Would people get their free Steam key for posting a comment if your product wasn't on Steam? So what do you think they fucking did beside leaving a comment that you totally didn't see coming and didn't encourage them to do by your promotion, especially that they were already on the webpage?
You knew your shit isn't getting anywhere even remotely close to Steam for what it is so you just cheated your way in and yet you have the nerve to insult at least some of us after, writing such bullshit. Bravo.
I am indeed very proud of being able to publish my software on Steam, and I have to thank everybody who made it possible and helped me.
Such an achievement - your hard work and dedication resulted in a great piece of software that caught people's attent... oh wait, nevermind. You just cheated the system and you're so proud of yourself. Again, bravo.
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I think that your idea is based on a wrong statement: "If something is good, it will be accepted on GL". This is sadly not true, I'm sorry. Your software MUST be good AND you have to gather as much people as possible to vote for it. That's why you need to promote it. I can see you didn't like our promotion, but I wonder if you think you are actually paying for 5-6 games when you buy a "Greenlight bundle" for 1 dollar ;)
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Didn't I write about 'caughting people's attention' or maybe you'd just start reading what you're replying to? And I don't know what I'm thinking when I pay for 'Greenlight bundle' as I never purchased one.
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I'm happy your product was greenlit and that you found a method that works. Most of the games I vote for are because I already own the game on Desura (and they tend to give you a Steam key if you own it there). I disagree with your idea that Steam should be a subscription based service. Steam is a vendor above all, like Desura, GOG, and Gamer's Gate. First of all I for one would not be willing to pay a monthly fee to have temporary access to games. Second of all, giving Steam a subscription model to access games would completely destroy the gift and inventory system. The fact that you even suggested this shows you have no clue how Steam or Steamgifts even works.
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You said in the post and the blog that people needed to buy the product in order to get the free key. If that's the case then I don't have any problem with the promotion. Sure it's likely that a lot of people didn't realise they won't be getting it for free unless they buy, but it's still very different from just giving things for free, because it's one of the rare cases when people's "I intend to buy it" votes really mean that.
By the way, don't take Steam Gifts opinions too much to heart. It's one of the most opinionated forums I'm on, with people regularly commenting without really having any idea about what they're commenting about. (Well, I know there are even worse forums, but I keep out of them. :) .)
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Initially the idea was to provide an additional free key to whoever bought a copy on Steam. But later on it became clear that a lot of users understood this in another way. So to not let them down we changed the promotion offering a free key to whoever made a comment, not requiring a purchase anymore.
I agree with you on opinions here ;)
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This software really has a shit use case. Maybe a few people have a need for this. Anyway, I left this comment on their Greenlight page:
"You have a pretty tough sale on this considering "Snap" already allows you to perform this same function with two windows: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/snap
Why is it worth $20 ($10 on sale as of this writing I see) to be able to do this with 3+ windows? Tough sell. "
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Reading is rather important.
The, utterly useless, programm Mosaico - Tiling Window Manager has just been greenlit with use of following methode "Drop a comment and get a free steam key". That is the most stupid and lame way of getting on steam. On top of that the program is just useless as it's already possible in windows with the Win + arrows.
It gets even beter. The company behind this shovelware made a blog post with as title, "Why Steam Greenlight is a remarkably good failure". It's basically a rage post because they couldn't get Greenlit, untill they started using the Drop a comment and get a free steam key-methode
This program should be un-greenlit. It won't be long untill other programs/games will copy this methode. And thus will get even more crap on steam.
Greenlight failed, again.
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