I've got an older, but generally pretty good gaming rig (see some specs below). It has worked fine for lots of newer, top-tier games, running at 60 FPS on 1080p. CoD, DOOM. Project CARS, Tomb Raider, etc. all work fine. In some cases, I'm actually below required specs, but that hasn't stopped me before. I maybe have not been able to play all at max video settings, but at least more than the minimum 99% of the time.

I've started making an effort to play through all of my wins on SG, and I've run into trouble as a result. Basic 2D games work fine, no problem. But TONS of indie-level 3D games just hard crash my system - and I mean HARD. Full power down, no errors, no warnings, no system logging, nothing. Just a dead computer. In some cases, I can load the menu (which show minimal graphics), while in others, it all comes crashing down before I even see a real screen.

Some recent games that have caused me trouble:

  • Abyss Raiders: Uncharted
  • Blinding Dark
  • Phantaruk
  • Pineview Drive
  • (Others as well)

At first, I thought it was just bad optimization for these games, but I fear now that it's worse than that. Not only are these crashing, but some of the previously better games are now unstable. I loaded up DOOM the other night and made it half-way through a single player level before a full-stop occurred. I can't get past a course loading in Project CARS. Even Cities:Skylines crashed after about an hour of play. Maybe repeated crashes have broken something. Meanwhile, others still work just fine (my main game Paladins is well optimized and runs at 60 FPS at max settings). Maybe a part is just old enough that (regardless of these new games) it's just time to go.

I am thinking I'm going to upgrade/replace my system in the somewhat near future, but I'd like to postpone that for as long as possible. At this time, are there any suggestions/recommendations from you guys that may help?

The important (to me, tell me if I'm wrong) components:

  • AMD Phenom II X4 830 2.8GHz
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660
  • 8GB RAM
  • Win 10 Home 64
  • Thermaltake TR2-600NL2NC PSU

Thanks, SG community!

Thanks for giving me the time to explain.(L1+)

7 years ago*

Comment has been collapsed.

Have u checked your PC for dust on the processor or elsewhere

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Yup. Actually removed everything and sprayed it all out. It does get hot in there, though. (Per my nerve's sensations in my hands. According to my HW monitor, it's not that bad. :P)

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Did you recently update your GPU drivers? I have a GT740 that constantly crashes if I install the latest Nvidia driver.

Try cleaning your drivers with DDU and then installing an older version to see if it makes a difference.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I always have updated to the latest with no issues. I'll see if that doesn't do something for me, thanks.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

heat issue

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Clean out the PC (get the dust out). Most common problem in these cases is overheating due to dust buildup or fan breakage.

Then run a memtest overnight, check for memory errors that might be exposed only when you truly push the machine... Maybe run a stress test and see if it reacts similarly if the memtest doesn't find anything. There's different ones for CPU and GPU, and some that stress both. Now if it crashes here it might seem like it would be the CPU or GPU that has problems - but more often it's actually the PSU - power supplies can degrade over time and give less stable power, or have caught one too many power fluctuations and now lets them straight through, or whatever - end result, not enough power delivered during high pressure.

So yeah, first de-dust, then check ram, then try with an alternative PSU if you can... That's about the order I'd go about it.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Cool, thanks for the tips. I'll try a mem test later.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Mem teat came back with a small number of errors, but errors nonetheless. Not sure if this is the cause of the problems (never crashed during testing), but certainly still an issue. Thanks for the suggestion.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Sorry to hear that, but at least now you know! It's still quite possible it's PSU issues, but it could be PSU issues that have broken your RAM (and who knows what else). Since it's a bit old it might be a good idea to get a new PSU that will work with your future upgraded build and throw it in, then check memtest again and if it still errors out replace the ram and hope for the best.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks. The whole thing is old, hence my original statement being that was thinking of soon-ish buying a whole new system as it is. These problems are just making me get closer to that end sooner. :)

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It could be the motherboard. I don't know what MB or RAM configuration you have (posting that might help), but if you have free RAM slots try moving the RAM to them and checking again.

Edit: Found that you have two sticks of 4GB (presumably DDR3), so hopefully if your MB has four RAM slots you can do this move and check again.

If it turns out one of the sticks is bad, leave just 4GB in your PC and see if that helps. If it's the RAM slot, then the motherboard itself is in questionable condition, and might develop further faults.

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Start from monitoring your temperatures - running some game in windowed mode while having temperatures open in another one could tell you what is overheating and to what temperature.

Hard resets or permanent freezes can be caused by pretty much any component overheating, but it's GPU most of the time. It could also be CPU, PSU, Mobo or RAMs, in this order from likely to unlikely.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'll do this as well. Looks like idling at least is OK. (33-45C)

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

If temperatures will be normal then I'd go with a classic and say just replace your PSU. This issue is also common when there is not enough energy - computer will work in idle, but might freeze under load. Even if you used it this way previously, PSU could simply degrade in performance with time.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

That's a nice, cheaper option. :)

I just crashed CARS again, and nothing peaked over 53C (GPU), so I don't know that it is heat.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The crashes you are having do sound exactly like PSU issues I was having a while back. In my case I'd upgraded my computer and the extra load when gaming was causing it to die until I also upgraded my PSU - but it could well also be a failing PSU causing the issues. Possibly some badly optimised game just pushed something that was already struggling a bit too far.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'm seeing a trend in these comments. Thanks!

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

your PSU is?

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It's 600W, which has always been enough for me on this system. Haven't added/changed anything that would make me think there's not enough power, except for this piece failing?

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Do you maybe know the exact brand and model? From my experiences (and since the temps seem fine) I would say 60/40 between PSU or motherboard failing.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thermaltake TR2-600NL2NC

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Ugh, I would get rid of that and buy a decent power supply that is not a possible fire hazard if the PSU is the cause of the problem or not.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

XD Why do you say this one is so bad? Mine is years and years old (and yes, it may be dying) without any problems up until now.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I can not tell you what exactly is wrong with it but when I looked it up I found it listed on a few do not buy lists bunched together with some cheap Chinese "it is gonna burn your house down" PSUs. That and the amount of people who seems to have problems with it would make me never want to put that thing anywhere near near my PC. I mean the chances of anything really bad happening are really low, but I wouldn't risk it. Do with this advice as you wish, but you should never cheap out on PSUs and get something of quality as it can fuck your other components up.

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Gotcha. Again, this one's a bit old, and there are certainly better (more efficient) units out there now. I wouldn't necessarily look to replace with the same exact model, anyway.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

When you say "Full power down", it means the computer power off? This could be a bad PSU. But these kind of trouble is hard to debug, a friend of mine had one similar issue but was the motherboard.. it´s hard to diagnostic without spare parts to test and replace.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Exactly why I come to you guys!

Yes, full power down as if I had held the power button to force it off.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Do you have another psu at hand ? I'd tray to replace it

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Not on hand, unfortunately, but I can get one.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

If you can try another one befoure you buy a new psu, just in case it is something else
a good psu it's not that cheap

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Do you have a particular recommendation?

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

evga g2/g3

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Id be thinking power supply as well, its most likely on its last leg.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

  • Right click to "Start", open Windows PowerShell (admin), write "sfc /scannow"
  • Use Ccleaner and clean your registry, remember to remove it afterwards because I've heard that it's not a safe software nowadays.
  • Remove your GPU driver from Programs and Features, then use DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) in safe mode and remove everything, restart your computer normally and install newest drivers, only install Graphics Drivers and PhysX because 3D drivers and Audio drivers are unnecessary and may even create problems with other drivers.
  • Reset your bios to default settings, only change your SATA mode (IDE if only HDD, AHCI if you use SSD)
  • Check startup programs, disable whatever you're not actively using (OneDrive, Acrobat Update etc.)

But before all that, check your temperatures. If a non-demanding indie game makes your CPU run 70+ degrees there're definitely an issue there. Clean dusts with canned air or with a compressor, change your thermal paste with something good (Arctic MX2-4).

If none of those solve your issue, use memtest86+ and leave it running overnight to see if there's something wrong with your RAM and CPU. I recently had a similar issue with my Phneom II 1075T x6 3.0GHz and it turned out to be dying so I upgraded.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

How do you reset your bios?

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Press DEL while computer is rebooting (or F2 in laptops and some motherboards), it gets you into bios, then press F6 or whatever it is that says something about bios default settings. This is just a soft reset though, removing CMOS battery or using jumpers to reset is more reliable.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks and what is the Boot Option? Because i see 2 in my BIOS

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It's where bios will look for an operating system so whichever HDD/SSD your windows is installed, make it #1. Other boot options are probably for booting from USB,CD-Rom etc.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

if you have access to another psu, you could try changing them and playing a bit with the new one to see if it's that.
just don't go buy it blindly in case it's something else...

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Fully understood. Only problem is I don't have any immediate access to one. :/

I'll check with friends, but I'm kind of doubtful they'll have something to just hand over, even temporarily.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

How many years with the PSU? How dusty It is? I´ve heard stories of people saying that the TR2 sometimes might just pop, just like somebody told you above (can´t confirm tho).
Have you changed your CPU thermal paste lately? or you´re still with the stock cooler from day one? how many years If this is the case?
Seasonic or Antec power supplies are reliable.

Hope you can find the culprit.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'd also say it 's your PSU. However, you should also test a different GPU.
It could be that under certain circumstances it tries to draw too much power and then the PSU shuts down. Try a different GPU or your 660 in another PC.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Aside from the hardware suggestions here, I would also recommend looking at disabling any unneeded windows services and/or auto-start applications as well. And if you haven't done so already, disable Steam from downloading while you are in game (occasionally I enabled this setting and forget to turn it off until a resource hog runs into problems).

But since you specifically ask about hardware, from what is described above sounds to me like it could be the PSU or RAM. If you don't have spares lying around to try swapping out, then I find RAM to be easier to test/rule out first. Many Linux distros will allow you to boot from a disc or flash drive and many even include memory testing tools. I mention this because if you notice slow down outside of games at all, it may be worthwhile to compare if you encounter the same slowdown from another OS (all without touching your Windows install). I find Linux Mint is pretty easy if you're already used to Windows. If you aren't interested in using Linux to help diagnose, you can also try memtest x86+ as a standalone memory test (a word of warning though... it will run indefinitely until you shut it off; my recommendation is to just leave it running overnight and see if it has found any issues by the time morning rolls around). Another thing to try might be running some benchmarking software and see if any of those flag anything hardware-wise.

I will also ask about one thing I have not seen mentioned above:
What is the state of your hard drive? If you have an SSD, I recall hearing about issues if at least a certain percentage of the drive isn't kept free. The percentage seems to vary depending on who you ask, but generally I hear at least 20% of the drive should be kept free. If you have a traditional HDD, Western Digital and Seagate are reputable brands but even they are prone to failure eventually. I have seen older hard drives have issues with speed and especially if you hear a mechanical clicking sound it could be on its way out.

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks for the feedback. I've run Linux in the past, so I'm at least comfortable to try that out if need be. As for the HDDs, I used to have a SSD, but that crapped out like 2 years ago, so I moved everything over to the tried-an-true HDD. Yeah, it's slower, but cheaper and more reliable.

I kind of doubt the download thing is the cause (I'll check to be sure, but I'm pretty sure I already disabled it to prevent lag in online multiplayer stuff). I can pretty reliably recreate the crashes as the same point each time I run into it. (i.e. after loading x screen in game y, etc)

I currently have 4x drives, 2x internal, 2x external/USB. Of the internals, the system drive has ~17% free. I can definitely clean that up (and really should, regardless. It's mostly games I'm not playing, but have saved so I don't have to re-download later. The other internal is about 40% free, but I use that only for data storage/backup, not applications. The two externals, which are solely for game installs as well have 15-20%, so I can probably squeeze a little more out there. Not sure if that's really to blame, though. All drives have 50+ gigs free, with the system having ~140 currently. I've had physical drives fail in the past as well, so I know that clicking sound you're referring to, and that's not happening here. The brands are mixed, big name to small name, though I can't tell you off the bat what they are without disconnecting everything to look at the label.

It's almost sleep time, so I'll be kicking off the memtest soon, per yours and other's suggestions. I'll report back tomorrow with any noteworthy results.

Thanks for the help/feedback!

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

When you said some of the drives were external, it jogged one other memory worth mentioning .. I have a fuckload of usb devices attached to my living room rig (which was previous on win10 before I went back to win7). I recall that when I had been on Win10, with all of my many many peripherals attached, I used to get a bunch of crashes as well (keep in mind this was well over a year ago tho, possibly 2). Anyway, point is that it could be some peripherals that don't play nice with Win10. In my case, Win10 decided to uninstall some of my shit during one of the fall updates (Python, Classic Shell, and I think a couple other things) so I said "Nope, fuck that shit; I'm done" and never ended up diagnosing what hardware/drivers/etc was causing the crashes. But Win7 and Mint 18 both work great on the same rig with all the same shit plugged in. If it matters, I recall Win10 crashing fairly consistently when I was doing testing with speech recognition stuff but it was definitely not limited to that alone.

To give a rough idea, the rig in question also has like 4 HDDs (all internal tho) as well as: 2 dedicated usb hubs (1 for 2.0 and 1 for 3.0), a logitech wireless kb receiver, an omnidirectional speaker, a wireless headphone receiver, a wireless xbox 360 receiver, various microusb cables for charging shit, a kinect, various usb extension cables, and a couple other gadgets. I think it has a 1 or 1.2 kw PSU to support all my toys without crapping out.

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

So... my BIOS won't let me change the boot config to do the memtest (from USB). lol

I changed the boot priority, forced the drive to read as a floppy, removed ALL other drives from the boot order list. Every time, it just boots into Windows as normal. I'm still fiddling with it, but no test results yet.

Scratch that. I got it to work on an SD card, rather than USB. Running now.

aaaaaand already found an error.

7 years ago*
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I find interesting what you wrote above. We realized about a faulty RAM because the system just didn't allowed to install an O.S. (It was failing half way). The thing is, no matter how many errors you found this will make your system unstable. Just curious, was the RAM a trusty brand?. Get one with heatsink from Geil, Kingston, Patriot, etc. It's pretty weird that RAM fail. You should use the other RAM socket with the new one just in case. Did you or the motherboard (automatically) overclocked the RAM? Most RAM has lifetime warranty you should check that out.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It's 2x sticks of 4GB from PNY with heatsink. The RAM is not overclocked, per the BIOS/memtest reporting.

And yes, unfortunately I know that bad RAM is really just bad. :(

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

PNY is not a trusty brand, skip them next time. Time ago I read about faulty PNY RAM modules. Wouldnt be surprised If they're the same model. I do remember PNY modules were the cheapest even in my country. Check warranty. And If that doesnt work go for Klevv 1600mhz 1.5v (If the motherboard supports 1600mhz) that company is new but using quality components and lifetime warranty I think.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks for the tip. I've had issues with other PNY products (flash drives, or whatever), but have had no reason to replace RAM until now.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Just realized your CPU memory controller is límited to 1333mhz. Old Corsair Vengeance DDR3 comes at stocks 1333mhz 1.5 and the XMP is 1600mhz. Kingston memory is a good option also.
Laterz.

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

My brother and I have also used G.skill and Corsair without issues on several builds for ourselves / family members (I think out of something like 20 sticks over the course of several years, I have maybe had to RMA one set after a failed memtest stat and that easily could be due to shipping)

7 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Closed 7 years ago by Gaffi.