It all depends on the individual child. If the kid is a total social reject and only plays games all the time then yeah, limits are in order. If the kid is mature enough to know when they've been doing too much then one could be more lenient.
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What I am planning to do when/if I have kids:
up to 10: No own PC, perhaps a Children console (Wii?) and up to 1 hour a day
up to 12: Playing at daddy's PC is allowed, 2 hours a day
up to 14: 3 hours a day, maybe more at weekends
with 13: allowed to play 16+ games
with 14: allowed to buy own PC
with 15: allowed to play 18+ games
and from then on they are gonna decide on their own, and I generally say: homework is more important AND assuming that my child understands what it does in the specific games and is not a complete psycho
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changed to "it"
just woke up when i wrote that comment^^
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"It" isn't better. "It" removes the sense of "human-ness." Humans aren't "its." We're he's and she's.
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As with almost anything, vidja games can be used as a tool for growth and learning, or addiction and waste.
And so can television. My son has learned more about dissecting crocodiles in the past two weeks than I think I'd ever care to know. But now he has transferred that knowledge (mostly accurately) to be able to understand where intestines are in other creatures, and (very basically) how digestive and circulatory systems work.
He's learned how to search for objects and use them together to make new objects and solve problems in a Wallace & Grommit game.
He is three. He's also under parental supervision this whole time.
I saw a post from a friend of mine on Facebook the other day (which had many echoes of ignorance in subsequent comments) lamenting "kids these days" in the U.S. playing too many video games and watching too much TV and citing it as a cause for a declining education system.
But this is a not a new mantra. My personal opinion is that if kids are paying attention to something more than school, then you integrate those experiences into schools as quickly and effectively as possible. For me, that includes video, music, video games, and more. And that includes creating their own media to that end. That's an even MORE effective way to get them to both create AND engage. And before some contrarian jumps in with some comment about "You want kids to do drugs and drink in school?", my definition of "something more" refers to media and entertainment of the legal variety. Drugs are another conversation entirely.
Somehow there is this false dichotomy of good/bad when it comes to tools we can use for either. And I guess it's fear based on the parents' part (and probably a little classist (at least) too).
Ken Robinson has a great TED talk that RSA animated a few years back regarding the fact that our education system is broken, in part, because kids are bored as holy hell due to the fact that we're still using the same basic methods of engagement we used when the publicly-subsidized education system was founded, oh...150 years ago, give or take.
So let's see...what are kids gonna care more about? An overhead projector with notes and worksheets, or an engaging program or video game? Of course we know the answer.
My final thought is two-fold. There are a lot of responsible comments in this thread from caring parents/future parents regarding regulation of content consumption and life balance. I applaud those parents. The OP's (source, not actual) parents and my friend on Facebook may, ironically, be part of the problem. They are so entrenched in tradition that they can't look outside of it to find the ways we can educate better and instead are afraid to let the system evolve to better engage and involve the children. In some ways, they're actually hindering eduction further by espousing that it stay the same as it ever was. There is a lot of comfort in tradition, but there can also be a lot of ignorance.
TL;DR: Tools are double-edged. Think about how to use them best.
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I don't think there's anything worse then watching TV (usual TV, not talking about educational channls or anything that makes you use your head and not just sit like a zombie) And in many aspects it can be even argued that games are better than books as well.
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I think all three can be great in their own way.
Good TV, even non-educational, can make you think about all kinds of things. Social situations and norms, politics, language patterns, historical events, and more. It can make you think about what's going to happen next in your imagination (rewarding if you get it right, thought-provoking or critical-thinking active if you don't).
For example, Boardwalk Empire might make you ponder real events during Prohibition, how much violence and organized crime is rewarding versus risky. How people still use some of the techniques created then to make money now, and how social norms played into character development, especially in regard to women and minorities.
Books are great for imagination building. All the characters, settings, and ideas have their "meat" filled in by your own mind. Your brain picks up where the author leaves off (sometimes led by them and sometimes not) and finishes creation. Amazing. Again, language use, symbolism, social norms, politics, etc., can all be explored here. And Books are king (to me) for being able to introduce new ideas and flesh them out more thoroughly than TV or games.
Good games shine in problem solving, object recognition "on the fly", hand/eye coordination. And like TV and books, can make you question moral choices, politics, social norms and more. They are great for rewards through perseverance (much moreso than books/TV).
All three can be amazing brain exercisers. Obviously, they can also be soul-sucking, time-wasting tripe. :)
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As I said 'and just sit like a zombie'. So as long as it's even just a movie with psychological aspect or anything that makes you think, it's fine. But lets be honest, how often that happens? Unless the person is cyinical/critical (person who looks for flaws in a movie while watching it), and the movie (like the far majority of them) is not thought invoking, he'll just sit and watch it brainlessly.
I know that, that's why I said 'in some aspects' and just "it's better".
Obviously, nothing is black and white, I was just generalizing things, wasn't aiming for a constrctive and deep argument.
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Shrug. Okay. I guess moving one's thumbs is "un-zombie like". ;)
I will spare you any constructive/deep arguments. :)
Just trying to see the positive in media out there.
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Obviously by saying games I don't mean ALL games (nothing is black and white) But the far majority of games, basically anything beside beat/shoot em' up against the easiest possible AI with absolutely no other elements and objective beside killing the plain easy AI, has some interactivity with brain (Yeah, even multilayer COD). versus movies where the far majority of the movies and audiance don't really think while watching movies. So abviously I generalized movies as zombie media and games as not-zombie media. I think my sin of generalizing movies is much more forgivable than you summarizing gaming as "moving one's thumbs", a shrug invoking statment indeed.
But yet I still fail to see what problem you have with what I said. I said things as they are, or if you indeed honestly think that majority of people engage in any thoughtful process while watching a movie, or that majrity of movies are thought invoking. Then all I have to say is the infamouse ". . .".
EDIT: Of course, majority of movies have an intense moment here and there, which creates some manner of thought, but majority of those moment are so few and short, not much of a justification for the rest of the movie.
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I never had any problem with what you said. I was just clarifying that I don't agree that any particular form of media is worse than another.
I can't speak for what's happening in other people's brains whist watching movies. In my brain, there is a lot going on.
Do I think the majority of movies are thought-provoking? I'm not sure. But many are. Do I think the majority of games are thought-provoking? Again, I'm not sure. Many I've played are. I've certainly played some that aren't, much as I've seen movies that aren't. I don't tend to come back to those kinds of movies/games.
I guess the bottom line is that I disagree with you that TV or movies are inherently more brain-deadening than video games (or anything else, for that matter). Some are. Some aren't. But I don't find any type of media to be wholesale "worse" than another. That being said, I have no problem with what you're saying. I just don't agree. Not a judgment against you or your thoughts at all. But definitely a disagreement.
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My argument wasn't towards the media exclusively, nothing can't be good or bad, what makes something goood or bad is how it is used (notice that I was talking about majorily the audiance), Like I mantioned, any movie can be good if a critical person watches it because he'll be engaged in thoughts to find flaws during the whole movie. What I criticezed was how majority of people watch movies, and this is for a fact.
My argument wasn't about you (Obviously as I don't know anything about you), I was talking about the general audiance. I'm a critical person, so I also engaged in thoughts no matter how thoughtless the movie is.
You got something wrong here, the point of games aren't the 'thought-provoking' aspect that movies should have. The point of them is the gameplay elemnets and diffuculty that makes your brain engage in differnt process.
The differnce between the differnt medias isn't how good or bad they actually are (because nothing can be good or bad) but how it actually used by the majority which creates generalization. And that's what I was talkin gabout the genral use. Even while movies can be used in better manner than games or anything else, the reality of the use by th majority is different, i do not condemn the media, I condemn its majority of audience.
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How do you know how the majority of people are using their brains during a movie? Why would they be different than us? Or, more importantly, why would they be different than us during a movie, but the same as us during a gaming experience.
I may be dead wrong here. But I'd love to see data backing up the fact that the majority isn't using their brain during a movie showing, or that they use it more during gaming.
Differently, I might buy as a truism, but your statement, "this is for a fact" seems to be normative.
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Say, the things you think about during movies, you think that other people also think about it? if no, what else is there to think about during a no thought invoking movie?
Urgh, as I said, differnt game elements makes your brain active in one or other manner (even when playing multiplayer COD), So they don't need the 'thought-invoking' grace saving point as your brain is active even if you don't think about something particular.
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Ah. Here ya go (Lord forgive me for linking to a Gawker media property).
http://gizmodo.com/5633312/brain-scans-can-predict-how-youll-react-to-a-movie-scene
Definitely a lot going on. Sometimes many people are taking away the same experience and thinking the same. Other times, very different takeaways.
There is a lot of brain activity going on.
Just different brain activity than games. :)
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(Note that I didn't read the article)
1) Obviously your barin is active, but your brain is always active. What is important in beneficial brain activity, is what part of your brain is active and how much, you can't tae the regular brain activity and say, hey, they are active, so it's good. It's like taking aperson and saying "hey, he didn't die yet, that measn he is in superb health".
2) I did say that there are intense brain active moments during movies, I just said that they are short and few so it doesn't excuse the whole movie.
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How do you know that those moments are "short and few"? Please share that evidence.
How do you know there are more moments like this in a game? Please share that evidence.
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Usually in movies the thing that invokes thinking is plot developments. Majority of movies have close to no plot, so the plot developments are few and insignificant (So it doesn't make you think about it for long, therefor 'short')
Oh my god, am I talking to a wall? The 'thought invoking' moments we talking about in movies are even fewer in games. As I keep telling you for god-knows what time; The point of games isn't that there might be something that makes you think about something particular like plot developments, the point of games is the brain engagement you have when you actually play the game itself. And it's not 'moments', it's constant, aside for times you have to grind in RPG, or just shooting/slashing through really weak/stupid mobs of AI without engaging other gameplay elements.
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THo one aspect that makes differnce between the media (creates more zombie-like audience) is that majority of movies simply don't force a person to engage in any thoughts, obviously the person can create think, but it's simply not forced unto him, and majority of people won't think if they don't have to, which creates the main problem of zombie audience.
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I disagree. How can someone watch something and simply not think? I don't even know if that's possible.
Maybe they aren't being forced to think in the same way as in a video game? That, I'll buy.
But to not think at all? Nah. Not in agreement there.
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Urgh, read some articles on brain activity during plain movie session. 'thinking' is basically how much you analyze recieved information. Which doesn't happen much with avrage person during th avrage movie.
EDIT: A person anlyzes recieved information whenver there's a change, and how significant the change is, a movie with close to no plot doesn't have much changes beside constant sooting or car chasing, so there's no much to analyze, therefor lack of thoughts.
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Okay. So you're saying movies without plots are not good for brain activity. Perhaps so.
How many movies just have no plot at all? Again, we move into individual pieces of media as markers for brain activity.
We can agree to disagree here, but I won't change my mind about thinking that movies aren't any worse than games when it comes to brain activity. I've already clarified that they may activate different parts of the brain and what each might be good at, IMO.
Unless you're able to present some hard data to prove me otherwise incorrect, then my assessment isn't going to change. There are a ton of extremely thought-provoking movies and television shows out there, as well as games and books.
There is also a fair amount of mindless junk in all three media we've discussed.
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Majority of games have close to no plot, even if they have little bit of plot it doesn't mirically change evrything, what matter is the plot development, so even if there's a little bit of plot, there still won't be much plot development, so it doesn't change much.
Again, I'm not talking about the media itself here, I'm talking about the chemistry between the media and majority of people. Hey you could have more brain beneficial experience from movies than me from games, but I'm not talking about possibilities here, I'm talking about the reality of the majority.
I'm not saying there are little intellectual movies and shows out there, I'm talking about what is being watched more, I'm talking about the general audience.
That's the magic of games, the game's content might be mindless (like plot and such) but the game mechanics will make your brain active nonetheless.
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Both named Matt with numbers following. Briefly appeared as if there was a dialogical soliloquy going on.
Just punning around. :)
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So if the kids are enjoying their games and are improving their imagination or mind it's OK?
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I haven't been drunk my entire life. I'm probably the most hideous creature around your parts.
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I've got 3 kids, and I limit their screen time (all screen media) to 6 hours a week. A lot of research shows that the parts of the brain that are used in computer/internet/game interactions are the same parts that are used for social cues and understanding. There appears to be an inverse correlation between computer/internet/games and social skills. This means that kids who are good at the internet are poor socially. This might be why we are seeing a whole generation of "immature" teens and young adults emerge. That said, I'm sure the my parent's generation said the same about me growing up.
What I find more concerning though, is the lack of empathy that kids have these days.
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Probably unrelated to video game discussion at hand, but I agree about your last sentence.
Although...certainly there are many sociopaths in my generation and my parents' (baby boomers).
I find empathy and kind communication to be one of the most lacking areas of proper education. There is a ton of emphasis on STEM, but so little on communication and sympathy/empathy. This is especially apparent in medical fields, where doctors are more talented and proficient than ever, but many (majority for me anecdotally) also seem to be socially incapable of listening or sympathizing with patients. A stay in the hospital is dehumanizing for almost anyone. Many doctors don't realize how much so till they themselves experience it.
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They're linking the lack of empathy with a decreased amount of eye contact in children of a young age. Why? Their parents are buried in their smartphones, computers, televisions, etc.
It's important to not only consider a child's exposure to screen-time, but their exposure to a parent's screen-time/attention.
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Leading by example is one of the hardest (and most important) things for a parent.
Pretty much a given that your kids won't listen to you except in crises. But they will pay attention to you when you aren't directly addressing them.
edit: Of course, that doesn't explain why doctors my age and older are douchebags, but hey. I still think that we get too tied up in how much of our "natural resources" (children - shudder at that term) are pre-determined to need a robust STEM education to "pipeline" them into jobs for the benefit of financial institutions and how little they are taught communication skills. And that goes for interpersonal bedside manner, small-group dynamics/theory, and mass communications awareness.
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I would argue that the decrease in empathy is less about the entertainment media we consume, and more about the prevalent attitudes adults / role models have towards one another. Although, news-media counts as entertainment, so perhaps I need to re-word that. Sure it can be a contributing factor, but culture as a memetic element between generations is a far more central culprit. Though the term may be off, there seems to be an absurd amount of "memetic cruelty" these days, and not originating from children. They tend to mirror the world they live in. By "memetic cruelty" I mean mindlessly regurgitated judgements and needless negative sentiments. Where you could call things like "racism" and "sexism" a form of memetic cruelty, I am speaking in a more general and less subjective way. Once upon a time, when you heard someone was suffering from an unusual medical complaint, the remark "they're just pretending so they can be lazy!" would be more likely to be uttered as a joke, now it's almost an automatic sentiment.
Okay, so, that was a badly written block of babbling, my bad. What I'm trying to say is that culture and environment in general plays a heavy role in shaping children's patterns, and that entertainment would certainly be a factor, I don't think it would primarily effect things like empathy.
Sorry for my bad articulation. Long-ass day at work, haha.
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Can you provide any links to these so called researches?
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Speaking as a grown man who works at Gamestop and spends nearly all his time in front of the computer, either studying or gaming, and have done so for around 25 years on a daily basis, I'll say that I believe limiting time in front of the computer for both children and adults is a good, but difficult, thing.
As such, there's no problem with games and the Internet, but when the computer becomes the primary lens through which we view our reality, a problem may occur.
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it is highly recommended in general for a limited amount of screen time in general. These articles look into children and family relationship/effects.
However, one can also look at the adult population in terms of back pain, obesity, hypertension, addiction, etc.
Some Journal articles:
Reduction of Cardiometabolic risk
Elevated Antropomorphic association
Increased Adiposity
Another Obesity assoication
Hypertensive Issues
Changes in Family Models/Behaviors
For those who do not review or read journals.
Here is a common list of associated health problems noted to worsen or be effected by a sedentary lifestyle (excessive screen time is considered a sedentary lifestyle).
Anxiety, Cardiovascular Disease, Mortality in Elderly, DVTs, Depression, Diabetes, Colon Cancer, Hypertension, Obesity, Osteoporosis, Hyperlipidemia
Those are some of the most common due to a lack of physical activity. Depression, I have noticed here on the forums seems to be brought up by people a lot. A recent journal from Geriatric Nursing showed physical activity in the elderly population to be a protective factor in preventing depression in older adults physical activity
Returning to children.
My attendings, fellow residents, and myself recommend at most 1-2 hours of screen time daily - Age dependent. As once a child is in highschool, homework becomes a great deal more internet search and computer write-up related. So limiting the hours is improbable, so we emphasize the idea of interruptions of physical activity between school work - sports, a jog, etc.
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Wait. My back pain, hypertension, and alcoholic beverage consumption all increased markedly in association with becoming a father. What are you telling me? Is that causal or just correlative? ;)
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Fixed,
In health, there are a lot of relationship between issues. Example being female, family history, and sedentary all play a role in development of osteoporosis. Reason why its recommended for women to exercise with some type of small weight resistance to keep bones strong.
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I'm sure. Balance is critical. It's also insanely difficult for many of us.
I have maybe an hour of free time away from work each day. I often times spend that reading or playing a game. As much as I should probably be strapping on the jogging shoes at 9pm, I find it thoroughly unenjoyable.
I'm somewhat fortunate to have had jobs for almost ten years that are very physically active (though often times not as much as pure exercise might be). I'm also unfortunate to now have repetitive stress injuries from those same active endeavors. Hard to "win". I just try and stay as active (walk places when I can) and happy as I can.
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Seeing as within this community, and consequently thread, I would be considered a child (I'm 13), I'd like to share my thoughts. I, personally, am not limited in terms of time on the . I have performed well in school for all of my life. I have many friends, despite spending a large amount of time on the PC. None of them are regulated in terms of time allowed, either, and all of them perform well in school. We meet regularly in real life and frequently talk over the Internet. However, I think such a restriction would be beneficial for a lot of people; I've never had any trouble with school, and have consistently scored in the 99th percentile on standardized tests. For people who don't find completing the assigned work easy, I think a restriction (though more than an hour) would be a positive thing, in order to encourage attention to school work.
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pc, I just want to say thanks for sharing, and also that at 13 you write really well.
Keep up the good work, buddy. I hope you always find something to look forward to. :)
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Studies have shown gaming increases your language skills because you have to be able to read and comprehend what is happening int he game. Though the specific study I'm thinking of is prolly a bit old now and was more relevant when games were primarily text based.
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Yeah, I think restrictions can help where there are unhealthy genuine 'addiction' patterns forming. Especially when they are becoming a form of evading real problems. Though I've seen a lot of parents do it without reason, and often abruptly when their child is used to spending a lot of time on the internet/various games. People forget that the internet is as much of a social tool as modern cellphones, which in turn can be a good placeholder for using an actual phone or constantly knocking on your friend's door (which bothers some parents just as much). It's one of those double-edged swords, but one that is easily cured by using empathy and due consideration at all times.
I can't really remark on your parents' methods, but you actually carry yourself with a certain dignity, demeanour and standard of english that probably speaks really well of them (as much as it speaks well of you). I may however be biased because you found Sparkle 2 Evo for me, in my "What's that game?" thread, haha.
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Modern technology is Satan! Rise up against it, and raise your children to be proper soldiers!
Video games were created by the enemy to weaken our fine soldiers! The schooling system was invented to train our soldiers from birth, and we need it to keep those filthy foreigners at bay!
LIMIT their time? HAH! Give them no time! We can't raise fine soldiers for our country while their brains are being rotted by the horrors of LittleBigPlanet and Bioshock!! Reading is much different from video games because it teaches the history of our fine country, and gives them something worth dying for!
RISE UP! THE HORRORS OF VIDEO GAMES SHALL BE TOLERATED NO LONGER! WE NEED MATHEMATICS TO PLAN OUR STRATEGIC ATTACKS! WE NEED LANGUAGE CLASSES, NOT TO SPEAK OUR OWN LANGUAGE, BUT TO TAUNT THE ENEMY IN THE BATTLEFIELD! WE NEED SCIENCE CLASSES TO INVENT ADVANCED MUNITIONS FOR OUR BRAVE SOLDIERS!
VIDEO GAMES TEACH US NOTHING, THEY CORRUPT WHAT WOULD BECOME THE BRAVE HETEROSEXUAL MALES WHO FIGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY!
TV is okay though.
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Lol.
"I don't know where I am, but I know my destination."
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Hey, we have a law called 'SHUTDOWN' that prohibits all under the age of 15(or 16) from playing games after midnight and it's too protect teenagers' right to have appropriate amount of sleep. The government is trying to expand this act. haha. IMO, if the kid has enough self-discipline, appropriate amount of game playing will do no harm to him. It's all about balance in life, isn't it?
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I read somewhere that y'all have issues with hardcore competitive studying to all hours as well. Is 'SHUTDOWN' related to that as well?
Is that even true? :)
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As to enter high status top class universities, a lot of high school students here study until 23am and go to school at 67am.
The SHUTDOWN law was more related to parents yelling 'my kid would have been great if he/she didn't play those fxxxing video games.' Also, to rip off money from game devs :P
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Gotcha. I remember reading an article about how shittily educated we are here versus there. And then reading on about criticisms of the system there as well. Good article. Compared systems here, there, in Finland and somewhere else I can't remember now.
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I'd say, I learned the english language from games more than I learned from the school. Then again, it depends on what type of game kids are playing. And if I had a kid, I forbid them from playing any of those shitty free tablet games or free mmo.
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+1
"91.3 hours past 2 weeks". Unemployment rocks!
But srsly; bad parents who let their kids play computer games or watch TV all day give us a bad name. As long as the debate is about TV vs. games vs. whatever's next, we're just running around in circles.
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Yes, reading a book is way more productive and (believe me) it pays off later in your life. Watching TV... well nowadays there are way too many BS in there - so this is not a good alternative for video games. Anyway, everyone has to have some free time to do things that they like or feel the need to do. If someone wants to play video games during that, so be it (when it comes to underage people, then there has to be some guidance and some restriction, BUT every parent has to also respect and take into account her/his child wishes).
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I think it depends om the game, honestly. They've done studies showing that people who play certain video games have increased reflexes and memory retention. You can learn from the right game just as you can learn from a book.
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So as the title says. There were some parents who limits their children to about 30min to 1h a day for gaming but there want mentioned about their own habits about spending their own time so I was wondering is playing video games that much worse than watching tv or reading a book if the kid does his homework and cleans his room and stays social with his friends? Any thoughts on this?
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