Should people read giveaway descriptions as a show of respect for the giveaway creator?
Luckily I haven't had that problem yet, but I would be very disapointed if someone on my whitelist did something like that, but I would hope it was only a mistake on their part... When I do a whitelist GA, I'm always happy for any comment:)
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Honestly, I'm a little bit confused if I should contribute to this conversation or not. It feels like this topic has been explored so many times and both sides had the opportunity to express their opinions in a polite and civil manner. On the other hand, it seems like some people are just unable to learn. And just recently I found myself in a situation where I was blacklisted by a user for asking for "Thank You" from a winner of my giveaway.
So, I don't know... It's good to be good, and bad to be bad. But it just doesn't matter much on the internet in general, where at least vocal minority of people happily participate in all acts of trolling, abuse and just whatever else.
So, here's a gif of confused cat:
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Honestly, I'm a little bit confused if I should contribute to this conversation or not. It feels like this topic has been explored so many times and both sides had the opportunity to express their opinions in a polite and civil manner.
I think you're thinking the 'generic thanks' threads?
Regardless of if this is the first thread of this sort or not, this is actually directed toward specific people, and not actually meant to be opinion based, but to point out a shortcoming on the site as it relates to common social expectations of behavior.
And, regardless of that, it's an assertion of my own request for a certain form of behavior, to a specific set of individuals.
In other words, this isn't a thread about complaining about circumstances, or trying to assert an opinion, but about trying to politely ask people I directly interact with in groups to reconsider their approach.
Mind you, we're talking about a hundred users here, 14 of whom were on my whitelist at the start.
It's not a 'oh hey, you four people let me down', it's a "I've noticed you all regularly not reading descriptions at all, and I want to make a point of pointing it out to you, specifically, so that you're aware of how others might consider that behavior."
It's not a criticism persay, but a nudge for them to decide if their current approach is something they want to stick with, or if they can acknowledge the other perspective.
I dunno, I thought the thread worthwhile- certainly, there wasn't an easier way to call the matter to the attention of the 100~ people involved :P
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Yes, I think I understood your message here. And I'm not trying to argue or anything. Just expressing my frustration with a situation where it does not matter how hard you try - some people just continue to behave the way they did before.
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I'm quite surprised to be on your bl as I always read descriptions, I must have missed that :\
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I hope it wasn't posted before:
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Woah, I was kinda surprised when I found myself blacklisted.
I must have totally skipped the description. Please, have my deepest apologies for that.
I'm very sorry because I'm used to read descriptions and you know I often take the chance to give you a reply with a Skeletor meme :)
Well, I surely deserved the public shame this time D:
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Actually, you should have had an exception made for you, sorry about that. :(
I do love your memes :D
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You do realize that this attitude is as toxic as the one "i blacklists whoever says thank you on the GA"? Most people don't want you to comment and often add you to the BL without saying nothing, so I just stopped reading descriptions on public GAs (still read group/forum).
It doesn't hurt me in any way to call myself out. I checked for curiousity and the only GA of yours I joined was 8 months ago so I guess it's not about what you wrote. If you have a problem with me, it means YOU have a problem with me, not me with you. You are not on mine and won't be as long as you're respectful and polite, and I don't intend to beg you to remove me. I'll just go on with my life ;)
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Seems I'm a victim of my own thriftiness.
It would seem that I, too, have offended, given the non-response to a GA I entered.
It's no excuse, but I've been using the Greasemonkey scripts to streamline my viewing on SG of late, which has landed me in more situations like this than I expected, and removed using it from this past weekend.
My apologies for having offended you, and not having followed the required instruction.
There's a lot more photos of fancy animals than I thought there'd be. Must be a thing. :)
Credit to tyzzy for the owl image
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I admit, I didn't expect to see you on there, myself. =O
Though I've had a good opinion of you since your response to the last quirk we had to sort through. :)
It is a thing. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Embrace it!
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Yeah man, I feel so embarrassed now.
Guess we're all human after all, but admitting to mistakes may help.
Being on SG has no room for being proud (in a negative sense). I've seen a few guys being slaughtered on here for it, and like to stay clear of such public shaming.
I'm loving the fancy animals, especially the owls, they're my fav.
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When a giveaway is on my wishlist or a whitelist/group giveaway I always comment, but if i'm on my phone entering giveaways before bed then i'll admit, I sometimes don't comment (on public giveaways). I do always try to make the effort as I can't stand it when people don't comment on my Invite/wishlist/group giveaways.
I'm unsure if I entered/commented on whichever giveaway but if I didn't then i'm sorry!
Either way, here, the best animal there is.
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Nope, you've got no tags on you for the gib either way :)
And I don't mind if people comment or don't, ever.
I just want to know they're actually- at least most of the time- reading my descriptions.
Else, I'm just a game-withdrawal-service to them, and while that's fine in some aspects of the site, that's not what I want out of my key groups, and certainly not from my whitelist. :/
Since there's been a bad habit of the same people not commenting on my gibs over the past 3 months I've been paying attention to it, I was starting to get a little.. disheartened?
Definitely didn't feel very good, anyway. :X
If the majority'd commented this time, that woulda let me know, yes, they ARE reading, and y'know, that's well enough. Up to them if they actually want to comment.
But when the majority doesn't comment the single time I ask for it, that gives a very bad implication to the matter. :/
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That sucks man, I know the feeling. added a few people to my Whitelist based on ratios and such and nada comments from a fair few of them on my whitelist giveaways. I used to assume the higher level someone was the more likely they were to read and comment but i've been proven wrong many times.
I took a hefty break from both Steam and SG and when I came back it seemed that even less people read the giveaway descriptions than they did before, but oh well!
I hope your future giveaways run a little smoother! :)
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Speaking of giveaways, did you want me to add you to Steam at any point for the one I just won off you? :)
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Copasta  to link it as an attachment, if that wasn't an intentional non-linking. :)
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Sorry for that, I always forget how to do attachments. :P
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Not blacklisted but this fine gentleman wanted a picture of himself in the thread.
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I did add you earlier on Steam aswell btw as Robin.R if you got confused by that. : )
Might be me & my dog on the pic might not, anyway we are fancy as fuck!
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not blacklisted and i do read comments i dont always respond to public giveaways if there is no description personally since u dont know if the person will blacklist u for it ïts weird but some people actually blacklist u for thanking them] but when there is a description i like to participate. I do think its common courtesy to thank a person after u won a giveaway wich some havent on my giveaways :) Personally i mainly got serial regifters in my blacklist but i can understand why u would blacklist some people. Anyways have some pics ;p
like neo got the pug one 30s earlier while i was making this comment ;p but good thing this one is differnt ;p
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Well, anyone that doesn't read giveaway descriptions, no longer has a right to claim they don't know what the giveaway creator wants [comment, no comment, no generic thanks]. :P
Past that, yeah, if there's no description, do what you want! That's on the creator for not putting a description up, not on the entrants for not reading.
The not-thanking-after-winning is definitely another topic of concern, but one I'll leave unaddressed for now. :X
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Oh dear, what did I miss? =o
Since I'm always following the instructions (even when there are no instructions in the description), it looks like I'm safe =)
Recently I was pretty disappointed by the fact that even members of good small groups could be ungrateful assholes =(
I also strongly dislike SG addon, which allows to enter giveaways from the main page, without seeing/reading what's inside =(
And here's the animal =)
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:laugh: Sounds like you've got the psychic bit down!
Ugh, they actually made an add-on for that? That's.. bleh.
And y''know, I don't mind the asshole bit as much, as the 'taking wins from non-assholes'. That bugs me :X
I'd rather give the games away for no CV than that, honestly. :P
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Off topic: have you heard anything about a game called Whiskey?
There's no info on it, and I'm just trying to remember why and when did I add it to my waitlist on Isthereanydeal =o
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I can't find a thing about it. Are you sure it's not just a metaphor for the game we play in real life?
Y'know, "drink all of the whiskey, drink it all down, and then drink some more"? =O
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Of course, it's very symbolic, but I swear the game was real!.. Seemed real... =<
There's even a proof in the database - https://steamdb.info/app/398870/subs/ Maybe they're testing it, and it was in store for some time by mistake? Or they put it down for some reasons...
Now I'm thinking about whiskey. In the morning. =o
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whiskey. In the morning. =o
Nothing wrong with that :')
I'll drink with you, if it's not too late in the day now? =O
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Sadly there will always people who can't be bothered to look, even when you spend a ton of money on them :( I'm think of doing a 3 strikes you're out system on my GAs. If someone continues not to care they will be permanently blacklist with no exception.
I don't like blacklisting anyone, but sometimes people just like poking the hornets nest.
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Oh please! Don't make me do it again!
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If someone can't show your incredible generosity proper consideration, they just don't deserve it. :X
I only hope I've never made you feel unappreciated, because you're definitely one of the pillars of SG. :)
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I understand your sensibilities on this issue, but I respectfully disagree (maybe disagree is the wrong word here, have another perspective) and I hope I'll be able to explain myself.
I apologize in advance that I'm not participating in this event, hopefully you'll see why.
My approach, to most things, is of non-coercion principle and encouragement (aka positive reinforcement). If I make a GA I don't want people to be forced to act one way or another by commenting/not commenting or taking any other actions. The explanation for that is freedom of agency. I'll try to elaborate - when you put a request with negative consequences attach to it, you're basically weakening their individuality (which I consider an important aspect of human progress) by using fear of punishment. They conform to your way of thinking instead of acting from their own volition. What's preferable when possible, in my opinion, is a positive reinforcement - those who want to act in accordance to you will gain some benefit (like being whitelisted for example).
I've employed this way of thinking with my group, which has no ratio, no rules, no level requirements etc' - so people were never forced to make GAs, but they have because they wanted to and felt they want to give back to a group they like (I've talked to a lot of them so I know that's the case). Some of them almost never made a GA before they got into my group.
I almost never comment on any GAs, whatever type they may be. While I do read descriptions, on most occasions, on those in a group or whitelist. If I'm asked to do something I might not enter even if it's a wishlisted game. And I don't expect people to do so on my GAs either. Let's say someone is in a bad mood - why should I make them conform and post a happy picture if they don't feel like it? That's just one example to illustrate, but there might not be a 'valid' reason, and that's also 100% acceptable - because like I've said, I don't want to diminish their freedom and individuality.
Sorry for the wall of text and believe me, this is the short version! :)
Edit: I really dislike pictures/memes/GIFs, that's why I'm not participating. The people I most admire are great debaters like Hitchens, Sam Harris or observational comedians who make the effort of explaining their position, whether it's funny or serious, in a deep, meaningful way. "Picture speak" is lazy and superficial and one of the ills of our millennials generation IMO. (I wonder on how many blacklists I'm going make an appearance now).
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If you think negative reinforcement is a factor in this thread, you've quite missed the point :/
And it's not a matter of pictures/memes/GIFs, it's actually things I personally enjoy looking at, and am looking forward to seeing each post of.
I wasn't asking as a meme, but as a personal favor.
And it's not 'picture speak', it (the current theme) is purely aesthetic art. It's an expression of wonder, possibility, cleverness, and quirk-your-mouth-with-surprise charm- the same foundations that the Steampunk genre is based on.
Add in the chance for people to surprise me with their interpretations, and it's quite engaging.
It's beautiful, and it's unfortunate that you feel you needed to assert your point at its expense, rather than acknowledging my viewpoint that it's something to be appreciated, as an acceptable alternative to your own.
In other words, it seems you've mistaken quite a lot of my perspective.
While your assertions toward me are a bit harsh in their flawed assumptions, you've been nothing but respectful in overall presentation and tone- so believe me, I don't mean this as an insult:
But it does seem your ego, or rather, your need to make your point, ended up overriding the underlying sentiment that's the very foundation of it: That is, of accepting my individuality and difference in perspective.
Or did I misunderstand the premise?
Well, I'm sure we all do that , so it's not a criticism. And changing the way we make our assumptions is a tricky task. So I'm not asking for anything- I'm just noting that things aren't always black and white, and that's an important thing to keep in mind.
In any case, you actually ARE participating by not posting an image (non-image posts are -1 count), so.. uh.. not getting that comment of yours at all. :'P
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I'll try to elucidate what I was saying:
If you think negative reinforcement is a factor in this thread, you've quite missed the point :/
Didn't talk about your thread. I was referring to your GA, that you yourself told us that was the catalyst for this thread, in which you requested:
"Please leave a comment on this one, thank you.
(Whitelisters not commenting may be removed :( )"
^ Saying people may be removed is signaling a punishment. Is it not? (if it is not, please explain how).
If it is, than that's the whole point I'm trying to make - signaling punishment as an outcome if people don't correspond to your way of
behaving/acting (in this instance, commenting) is coercion, whether you intended it to be or not, and is lowering the freedom & individuality of those involved by fear of punishment.
Like other have said here, there are many reasons - using mobile, bad mood, busy period in life etc' - which make them disinclined to do this action you're trying to get them to do.
And here's another problem with this attitude that comes to mind while I'm writing - do you really want people to do something they don't want to just because you told them to? How will you be able to know differentiate "who are your friends", so to speak, if they are acting by your standards and not theirs? I, for one, wouldn't want that.
But it does seem your ego, or rather, your need to make your point, ended up overriding the underlying sentiment that's the very foundation of it: That is, of accepting my individuality and difference in perspective. Or did I misunderstand the premise?
Yes, that's not the premise. Disagreeing with you, doesn't diminish your individuality. I'm not making you do anything that you don't want to do, your freedom and individuality stay intact. I actually think that disagreeing, in a proper discourse, is a way of personal growth. When everyone around you agree with everything you say/do, it's an echo chamber and it will stifle you as a person. So what I'm doing here is disagreeing, and explaining (in length) why. In contrast, what you've been doing in that GA was telling people how to act "or else". I hope you see the difference.
And it's not 'picture speak', it (the current theme) is purely aesthetic art. It's an expression of wonder, possibility, cleverness, and quirk-your-mouth-with-surprise charm- the same foundations that the Steampunk genre is based on.
Add in the chance for people to surprise me with their interpretations, and it's quite engaging.
I rarely see things in black/white. That is to say - there are instances where sharing pictures is a great activity and not at all a "lazy and superficial". It's all about the context. Not all conversations need to be deep. But I understand how this would be easily interpreted as an attack on your thread - so I apologize for that. I fully accept your viewpoint that this thread is celebrating art. So my "picture speak" moan is irrelevant here.
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"MAY" be removed.
It wasn't punishment for not commenting on that single giveaway.
I've intentionally been working my whitelist down ever since I started using the PosTho group in place of it, which is why noone new has been added to it in 3 months.
The people who were removed from the whitelist this go-around were the ones that had been tagged as never commenting, saying thank you, etc in the past.
For reference, of the 20 whitelisters affected: 5 commented, and had commented reliably in the past. 1 did not comment, but had commented reliably in the past, and thus was not removed. 14 did not comment, and had been completely dismissive for the previous 6~ months.
I don't think your "make sacrifices to keep them as friends" element applies when they've made a point of never talking to you to begin with? :P
In any case, you can't punish someone by removing a luxury, that's..
..and nevermind that you can't punish someone by revoking something you did on your own without their involvement..? That'd be like saying "You fell out of love with me just to punish me!" it's illogical, nonsensical, and self-centered.
But finally, the 'contract' for being in the whitelist in the first place was an assumption of social interaction, which they failed to meet over an extended time. It's not punishment for any action, it's a "your trial period is over" or "you didn't work out how I thought you would" or "I made a mistake in my assumptions on you".
The only way to get punishment out of this scenario is from a self-centered, entitled viewpoint, where you believe others are obligated to give to you, and cater to you. By that viewpoint, I'd never be allowed to remove anyone from my whitelist, ever.
Disagreeing with you, doesn't diminish your individuality.
I wasn't referring to disagreement, but your dismissal of what I enjoy and downputting of me for enjoying it.
You've apologized for the implication of an attack on my enjoyment of the matter, so I believe we can push that element aside. :)
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Sorry, I was a bad, bad bear. I was probably very tired or did it in a hurry. But I don't want to list excuses.
There's no worth in that. Both could have been avoided, to be honest.
I actually like reading descriptions and I'm surprised to find out that I missed yours.
I rarely do descriptions myself anymore, because of the very same reason.
It can be quite disappointing when you realize that most people just don't care.
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Wasn't meant to be punishment, certainly not toward people whose names I recognize off-hand, like yours.
But when only 1/5th of a whitelist/'respectable people' mixed-group giveaway comment when prompted to, it's a bit disturbing overall :X
And, y'know, I'd been seeing so much of that [overall] lately, it was starting to make making new giveaways less fun :X
I figured I'd rather take a gentle jab at it and see what happens after- if most people end up seeming to be more responsive following, that's good enough, but if it still seems like only the same small handful are paying any attention overall, I may need to consider actually seriously blacklisting-
Likewise, not as punishment, but because I'd much prefer the people who put the effort and consideration in, get the reward as well. :X
(Again, no negative considerations toward you, please don't stress out over it. I just wanted to nudge people on it, and this seemed the best way to get their attention. :) )
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I liked looking for a cat with balls... (that must mean just male cats?) LOL
I found this gif of cats playing with a huge frozen water ball that was amazing for your thread! I wonder how to make that ice ball because the cats loved it... licking it and being totally absorbed in it. http://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/lrfiaMx
I like reading all descriptions and responding with whatever is asked... it is being part of a community and sharing in on the fun. Not only posting my gif but looking at everybody elses gifs and funny responses... It would be utterly boring if it was just a bunch of ga with no interaction. That is what is lacking with steamcompanion.com
I don't like it when people are punished for not doing something though... because there are all types of personalities in this world and some people just prefer to stay to themselves and be reclusive... personally that is sad and I wish they would reach out to others as our inner psyche doesn't do well being a loner. We are social animals.
Yet we should respect peoples differences and if they choose not to comment or read a description for whatever reason then thats ok...
We teach by example--- they will see the fun of community and be impelled to join in.... BUT, to make someone join in because they are forced or threatened they will be punished if they aren't... that's just not something I would be comfortable doing... but, again I respect everyones personalities being different and dont look bad at those who do so... I just think there may be a more positive way to encourage community...
EDIT: Wow this is a hard subject because now Im leaning differently... I guess I do agree with a GA creator putting any stipulations on their ga that they want... we put level restrictions, require this or that... even when we go get a free game you have to join this group, send this twitter message, etc... if the ga creator asks or really requires a comment to be posted for all who enter then that is what should be done. And it is a good reminder that we are dealing with real people here not just automated machines... it is common courtesy to read what the ga poster posts.
Here's a repost of the cat with the ice ball...
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OOps almost forgot to post the fancy pet gif.... my bad!!!!
This one pets outfit is so fancy he looks like two pets!!
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If you're referring to me, as I've stated repeatedly, this was never meant to be about punishment. There's simply no better way of pointing out the matter to the people involved without this, especially given that it's already been clarified they don't read giveaway descriptions. So how else would you get their attention to ask them to consider your feelings on the matter? :P
That aside, not commenting is totally a matter of differing preferences, and each side should try and show respect to one another- or accept their viewpoints on it won't match.
But flat out refusing to read descriptions, that's.. almost deliberately insulting.
As I said, a temporary 'hey, please consider this matter' event like this aside, I'm not sure yet if that's something I'm willing to blacklist for.
It is, however, something I definitely don't want out of my whitelist. :X
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I added the edit above before I got this message, please re-read above...
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BTW, I wasn't referring to you because you did not threaten with punishment...
what you did was a great reminder for us to read descriptions... I totally support what you did and felt it was positive encouragement...
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I hope not too many people viewed it as punishment. :/
I'd be a lot more careful about it, were I seriously adding people to my blacklist over such behaviors, not just a random 'okay, check in now or gtfo'. :P
I just.. well, I demand my comment, that's all!
If you didn't do it there, you gotta do it here, that's all there is to it! :'D
~.^
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I care MUCH more about the comment by my friend... (in this particular case you, Sooth, the founder of the Positive Thoughts group (which is da bomb btw))
than the ga...
And yes I want to read what you say and respond back... that is what a friend is... and does...
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Thank you. I must say events is the most interesting part of SG for me)
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Why, hello there, good sir!
I'm chuffed as nuts to see you looking as humbly jumbly as her Majesty's watermelons!
Pip, pip, cheerio! Gin and tonic. Wot?
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I'm not sure I can count that image.
That is clearly not what I asked for-
I asked for a fancy animal.
You gave me an adorable marshmallow with legs in a top hat.
..oh, who am I kidding, I have to give you credit for it no matter what, it's too gosh darned cute.
..but now I'm hungry for marshmallows, and that, that's on you! :|
~ ♥ ~
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Now you're reminding me of Ojisan to Marshmallow.
But really, now how will I make us S'mores? :'(
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If not marshmallows with legs, maybe running potatoes will suit you better?
Sorry for spam, but I have to do something brainlesly and finding gifts is perfect to achieve it xD
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This is now all I will think of when I see potato as a poll option :X
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and a fancy one
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Sadly, the majority of those that don't read descriptions probably also don't read forum posts/rants either.
I've tried asking for gifs or conversations in what I'd consider my "best" groups and often I still get a very low percentage (I'm talking 5-10% participation)
It is a little depressing, especially since I actually like to see comment and read them all... and even reply to some.
I'd also contend that it's gotten worse over the past year, as I think the "Don't comment or I blacklist" crowd has some users scared, figuring if they say nothing they fly under the radar.
I don't comment on every give away I enter (especially if I enter several from one user at a time) but if the poster asks for something or writes something I can comment on, I usually will. Most of the ones I tend to not comment on are ones with nothing in the description.
What REALLY sort of irks me is a winner not saying thanks. ESPECIALLY on a group give away. I really feel that's ungrateful.
This isn't steampunk, but you better watch out complaining to him...
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The event has ended!
Without reaching even 65% Fancyness, we've failed to attract the unbundled giveaway to this thread, and it has has relocated elsewhere. :(
~⁰ ・✧ Bundle Train! ✧ ・ﾟ ~
I hope you find the narrative entertaining, but there's certainly no obligation to read through it. :)
Enjoy the train!
In the spirit of the event, if you participate in the bundle train, additional Steampunk images in this thread would be welcomed. :)
The original thread post has been moved to the first reply of this thread. If you find you're blacklisted, and don't know why, you should take a quick look there!
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