NVIDIA doesn't only have PhysX (which makes a huge difference to immersion, btw), but also ten times better driver support. Too many games have issues with AMD cards.
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Intel CPUs are clock for clock infinitely more efficient than AMD and that's why people pick them. (That means they're faster regardless of the numbers)
And for the GPU just pick whatever the best card is in your budget range.
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As far as CPUs go. Ones of differing architecture(Intel/AMD) can't be compared by just looking at things like cores and clock speed. Only true way to gauge performance in this case is to look up benchmarks about how each CPU performs. AMD's latest CPU offerings are decent, but for gaming I would stick to the i5 2500k/3570k for best bang for the buck(solely gaming) CPU. As far as GPUs go, that could go either way. There are those that'll claim that AMD drivers are sub par, which might've been true in the past, but I've heard they've made great strides nowadays. You can't go wrong in the GPU department from either side. At this moment AMD offers best bang for the buck in the GPU department. My $400 GTX670FTW is still near $400 to this day, while the nearly comparable in performance 7950 has dropped to $300. People prefer nvidia for things like brand loyalty, their drivers were generally better than AMD in the past, things like Cuda if they're into rendering, PhysX which isn't worth it imo as it's rarely used in games, etc etc.
Not sure where you heard the 1 nvidia vs 2 AMD GPU thing, there are always potential complications when running multi GPU setups. SLI(Nvidia), Crossfire(AMD). You'll need a beefier PSU to run the two cards, they'll make more noise as there's more fans, output more heat, and you might be subjected to micro stuttering in the games you play. What's your budget? Do you have the other parts picked out already?
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Wow thanks for all this info. It's realy helpful :)
But I don't understand why dual Amd gpu's would create micro stuttering (an exaple of micro stuttering would also be apreciated).
No there is no buget for now. I will begin picking the components around june or so, but untill then I want to be well documented about everything. I did some mistakes the last time I got a pc and I don't want to repeat them.
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AMD GPUs may be slightly cheaper, but just think of it as paying a small premium for better driver support, CUDA, and PhysX. Until AMD gets its driver act together, I'll never recommend an AMD card to anyone.
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Drives are much improved from before actually, especially with the 12.11 and now 13.01. These days, its about on par with nvidia and at worst, maybe a little bit worse. Even with multicard setups, its improved as well. I've done some testing with 1-4 cards and it has shown a lot more stability than in the past. The 7-9% performance in 12.11 doesn't hurt either.
More and more applications are supporting OpenGL, which can work just as well as CUDA if implemented. The current 7970s have much better GPGPU power, so it will perform better than any nvidia card if both OpenGL and CUDA is implemented.
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While drivers are certainly improved from the ATI days (man was that horrendous), it's still not up to par with NVIDIA's support. A quick visit to various games forums tend to show that AMD users tend to have more issues than NVIDIA issues. Whether you want to chalk that up to better drivers or NVIDIA working closely with developers to ensure their cards work well, either way it doesn't paint a pretty picture for AMD. The only big advantage AMD used to have was more VRAM, but NVIDIA cards are starting to be produced with higher VRAM numbers and it's also become questionable whether most games even utilize VRAM properly to begin with.
As for your OpenGL argument, most modern games are still D3D, not OpenGL. The only developer that seems to be consistently sticking with OpenGL for PC gaming is id...but what's funny is that its latest game (not counting D3BFG), RAGE, actually runs better on NVIDIA cards by practically all accounts. Graphical software (eg. Maya, Blender, Photoshop) use OpenGL, but the OP is talking strictly about gaming.
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What forums are you talking about? On the various forums I go on, it tends to be just about even for both amd and nvidia in terms of problems. As for VRAM, it still helps quite a bit in certain games such as Skyrim and with higher resolution screens, which is becoming more and more affordable and popular in the future.
I was talking about OpenGL in regards to CUDA, which is not used for games either. It was entirely for graphical softwares, in which case AMD does better there.
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I'm talking in cases when both OpenCL and CUDA has been implemented. You can see that here, here, or in any OpenCL benchmark that the 7970 has better raw GPGPU power.
As for testing, I did testing via 7970 3GB, 670 2GB, and 580 3GB. In Adobe products, the nvidia cards are ahead, but the difference was miniscule enough that it didn't matter much. On after effects there is a difference but only because Adobe can't fucking implement OpenCL on Windows but on OS X only. (Hackintosh works very well here.) I only personally own a copy of Maya so thats I all I tested with. The 7970 ended up being very similar to the PugetSystem test in that it was ahead by about as much of a margin.
If you want to know about my setup, its a 3930k at stock with Asus Rampage IV Extreme so there isn't any sort of bandwidth problem. Programs were ran off a Plextor M3 256GB with 32GB of ram.
EDIT: I just realized that using Adobe products on Windows (for GPGPU comparison) was poor to begin with because of the fact that they don't support OpenCL.
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For adobe premiere and after effects, rendering times for AMD are horrible even they have more horsepower. Cuda is still a no-brainer option for video rendering. Cuda (Seconds) vs OpenGL (Minutes)
For those Synthetic benchmarks, Again AMD wins those but it tanks pretty much at real world performance due to their poor drivers.
If the OP is looking for a bitmining machine, I would suggest immediately getting an AMD card
In that pugetsystem test, you only need to look at physics and render tests. Others are not very much used intensively(In my experience). If you got Autodesk yourself, Intel feels so much faster than the AMD counterparts when switching mode for mode.
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Obviously physics is going to favor nvidia because it can utilize PhysX. In terms of video rendering and other real world performance, CUDA does give the advantage a lot of the time because most program works very well with nvidia and AMD has never been implemented that well for those in general (partly because they had always been poor at GPGPU till 7xxx).
Once again, using premier and after effects is not a fair comparison because of the fact that on windows, you are using Cuda vs something without GPU acceleration with AMD.
Of course right now nvidia for a pure workstation is the way to go because not all of AMD's potential is tapped into with current software. When you start throwing in something for gaming and rendering, AMD is a pretty good choice.
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But that's part of my point - support for AMD cards is poor. You can make claims that AMD performs better in OpenGL/CL all you want, but unless/until developers actually do that, it doesn't matter. You don't buy computer hardware for theoretical performance, you buy it for actual realized performance. I've seen no evidence that that's going to change anytime soon.
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Your point was games from the start, in which case support isn't poor . You keep making the claim that game support is poor but there isn't any indication of that anywhere. As for OpenCl, why wouldn't it change? Vegas along with Autodesk now all support OpenCl properly in their products and the performance with that is only going to get better. Adobe is doing it on OS X as well.
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Only real problem I've had with my HD6950 has been the cursor corruption bug in the drivers. There's a workaround for that but it's somewhat annoying. Also in games vsync is pretty much mandatory as there is very noticeable tearing with it disabled.
With my old 8800 GTS I had some freezing and blue screens when playing games but that might have been caused by something else and not the GPU.
Can't say much about CPUs as I haven't had one by AMD. Intel is quite a bit ahead of AMD when it comes to manufacturing process and technology.
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Intel & Nvidia -> High price but excellent performance. (if you have a lot of money you are fine with this combination)
AMD -> More bang for the bug. (if you have a specific budget for your build)
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Well if your using the new pc for gaming then you wont need more than an Intel I5, that is sufficient.
As for gpu. Its honestly up to you... do you support nvidia or amd? I have gigabyte radeon hd 7850 and it plays everything on max setting with at least 30 fps which is pretty good (i havent tried BF3 on ultra tho, but i do game on triple monitors and still get over 30fps on games that support eyefinity)
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Last time i tried BF3 with the latest patch, with a Sapphire 7850 factory OCed, it was running the game at an avg of 64FPS at 1680x1050, i don't know how well it would scale with 3 monitors though.
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For CPU you really don't need more than an i5 3570k, for GPU I'd go Nvidia all the way. I currently have a sapphire HD 6870 in this build because my budget was tight when I originally built it. Ditching it for GTX 680 soon, or 780 if their release info comes soon.
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dood, what have you done? the 10 year debate intel vs AMD, Nvidia vs ati XD. As far as i know AMD/ati, cheaper but hotter (compare CPU fans against intel fans). Nvidia vs ATI, same ati hotter since its AMD CPU on GPU, also Nvidia better technologies, for instance just check how many smartphones use ATI and how many use the Nvidia Tegra 4.
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Compared to Intel/Nvidia:
It is my experience that ATI/AMD usually gives you nearly the same performance per generation, for lower cost per unit of performance.
Intel/Nvidia have higher performance available, but at a much higher cost than I consider reasonable when ATI/AMD are available.
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There's a whole lot of information out there, only some of which you need. You really just want to start by identifying your needs.
1) Do I have a heat concern? (cooling is a problem in Arizona, but not Minnesota)
2) Do I have a noise concern? (does it bother you if your computer sounds like a hair dryer?)
3) What is my budget? (AMD + Radeon is often cheaper)
4) Am I building my own computer? (much more bang for the buck if you or a friend build it)
5) How long before I replace this one? (future-proofing is more expensive than buying older parts at discount prices)
Once you know all of the above, you can find the parts that meet your needs. For CPU and GPU reviews, I like to check Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com). That site has comparison charts and price-point recommendations you can easily access and understand.
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Intel/Nvidia has much higher performance and is overall the current leader. CPUs have been maxed out, but intel has also upgraded the motherboard to work along side the cpu in 2nd/3rd generation pcs, meaning less bottlenecks and overall 60-80% performance increase from 1st gen pcs.
I would suggest it depends what you want the pc for and how much you are willing to spend. For hardcore gaming: Intel i5 or i7 with Nvidia GTX 660Ti or better!
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Intel beats AMD at every price range except for AMD FX-4100 vs Intel Core i3-3220, AMD ties Intel; However the FX-4100 vs i3-3220 price range is irrelavent because its better to buy an Intel Pentium or Intel quad. Also Intel's Haswell processors are comming in Q2 2013 and are based on new architecture, not a die strink like ivy bridge was.
For AMD's FX 8 core cpu vs Intel's core i5 or core i7 4 core cpu, AMD's 8 core, high end FX processors are rubbish, the low end FX-4100 is okay for the price. First, most of the new games only fully utilize 3 cores, except GTA IV and Borderlands 2, to a lesser extent. Second, the FX processors are not energy efficient. Third, Intel's core i5 and core i7 are better in games, the FX bottlenecks in Metro 2033 and Skyrim.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-core-i7-3770k-gaming-bottleneck,3407-3.html
However in the future, about the year 2020, games will fully utilize 8 core and FX may be better. Also Playstation 4 and Xbox 720 are rumored to have 8 core AMD cpus so console port games may become better optimized for AMD.
For graphics AMD or Nvidia doesn't matter. However if you get an AMD cpu you should get an AMD gpu.
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I was a systems administrator for three years, prior to switching to the programming side of things and I've worked for OverclockersClub.com since 2007. I do agree that SG is not the place to ask though...you probably have too many people here that actually buy pre-builts and don't know shit about building a computer.
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+1 There are people here at SG who actually know something about this subject. Some of us have been working with computers since the mid-1970's. Even so, you're still better off checking a dedicated hardware forum/website.
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As others have said before me, Intel and Nvidia are the winners here if you got the money. Also, a dual-core GPU is really pointless here. While it should raise the performance to at least 150% in theory, it normally raises to 130% max. You are better off with a single-core GPU. AMD had been slacking off for too long, probably cause they thought they were invincible. However, Intel has proved them wrong with a total beatdown in performance.
GPU wise, I don't see many games using ATI as the official card for them. I see more of Nvidia than ATI. The reason is because Nvidia constantly improves their cards' performances with each new card of the same genration like 650 and 660 and generation like the 560 and 660 for not that much price change. On the other hand, ATI seems to be focused on making their cards cheaper for about the same performance per generation.
Conclusion? It's your money, so choose which side you wish to be on.
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"The reason is because Nvidia constantly improves their cards' performances with each new card of the same genration like 650 and 660 and generation like the 560 and 660 for not that much price change. On the other hand, ATI seems to be focused on making their cards cheaper for about the same performance per generation."
Not even close to true. Nvidia uses $$$$ to pay their logo into games. has nothing to do with performance. They both do the same cycle btw of 1 generation of new tech followed by 1 generation of a dieshrunk version of the previous tech, rinse and repeat.
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Intel CPUs are more efficient, and even an I5 is more than enough to run pretty much any game you throw at; AMD CPUs are known for their great power with multitask applications such as CAD, Photoshop and the like, and while they are cheaper, they do not have as great performance as an I5 does. So in that case, your answer is pretty straightforward: go for Intel.
When it comes to GPUs though, the high end spectrum of Nvidia GPUs do not have as much power as the AMD ones (simple comparison is between the GTX680 and the ATI 7970, not to even mention the dual GPU solutions like the GTX690 vs something like the ARES, or two 7970GHZ. Sure you won't get Physx, but with that much power you can calculate those effects off the CPU instead.
Big thing to bear in mind when talking about GPUs, is that while both mid/high end models of GPUs (either Nvidia or ATI) have an incredibly low power consumption, when it comes to the HIGH end (like the 7970 mentioned before) the ATI models require a really beefy power supply, while something like a 680 has a really low power requirement.
In the end, the high end series in both brands are damn expensive, but for the moment, ATI has the edge when it comes to performance, if you're not looking for the high-end stuff, then you have to pay a lot of attention and ask around in forums for comparisons between these brands, as well as different manufacturers.
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Go for Intel and Nvidia, you won't be disappointed. For CPU, get an i5 3570K (Ivy Bridge), you don't need hyperthreading, hence the i7 for gaming at all. For GPU get a Zotac GTX 670/680 AMP! Edition and be ready to be blown up.
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you don't even need and i5 an i3 is fully enough for gaming,but if you have money for i5 go for it!i7 is for programming and some more serious sh*t on the PC,you need a powerful GPU Nvidia - GTX 560 Ti or above! Do not buy GTX 650(you can go for SLI but its a waste)! you can go for GTX 650 Ti(doesn't have SLI) or GTX 660 and above if you intend to go for ATI go for 7000 series I do not recommend you AMD for Gaming or ATI for gaming!For gaming people prefer Intel + Nvidia and for programming ATI + AMD ;)
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...Do your research. AMD bought out ATi in the mid 2000s. There is no ATi anymore.
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facepalm, you're clearly not educated in this subject at all because they are NOT called ATi GPUs. They are AMD GPUs, regardless if they were ATi in the past. The mere fact that you say SLI is a waste, and ATI+AMD are for programming only, when AMD GPUs hold the best bang for the buck in gaming makes it clear to anyone with knowledge that you are clearly lacking in it.
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and still the video cards are called ATI not AMD...or I'm not sure actually but still alot of people call them ATI I'm one of them aswell its sounds stupid to say AMD RADEON HD ...ATI RADEON HD sounds way better I don't care who bought them they are ATI...
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Hello.
I am intending to get a new computer in the near future, but I don't have a clear idea of what to buy.
It all resumes to: - Intel vs Amd
For example Amd has a CPU with 8 cores and 4+ Ghz but people still prefer Intel's i7 that has 4 cores(8 virtual) and lower frequency. Why is it like that?
For the video cards, some people recommend having just 1 Nvidia one instead of 2 Ati ones. Is this true?
I want to hear some reasons or opinions from those that had experience with both brands form any of the 2 categories.
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