Any update about a possible community poll, concerning the new point system updates?
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After using it. I still dislike it. I would have preferred you guys start using Captcha's or something for bots. This won't stop them either, might slow them down some but that is about it.
The site as a whole seems less fun and engaging and I can see major issues with this when popular discounts are given and when the place is dead from times of no good sales. This also leads to potential abuse where players start using long running giveaways to stash points to use during the busy sales where they have a few thousand points to use during that time where before that entire practice would be pointless as the point generation would increase to match the increased giveaways.
Honestly should just do a poll.
The site has changed from one that was active and rewarded those for being active with the point generation actually matching the giveaways and people actively checked and used the forums mores. Now the place just seems a lot more dull with less reason to check and less desire to stay around except for the occasional check-in which starts slowing down to daily as more than that is pointless.
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The site has changed from one that was active and rewarded those for being active with the point generation actually matching the giveaways and people actively checked and used the forums mores. Now the place just seems a lot more dull with less reason to check and less desire to stay around except for the occasional check-in which starts slowing down to daily as more than that is pointless.
The main reward is won games, not spending points on giveaways. Two Digits doesn't take long to beat and get 100% achievements, and good for those dull times when there's not much to do here.
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This new setup also makes gaming the system more enticing to do.
With the old system, when the site was slow, the points were slow but when the site was loaded, the points were as well.
With the new system, when the site is dead the points are still constant so it becomes a better point to just find the longest giveaways possible to load all your points into it to save up points for when things are fast with stuff you want so you can take all those points out and reinvest them and gaming the system unless you want to take things further where you can't remove yourself from a giveaway without a ticket.
Those who don't game the system end up short on points when the site is active.
I mention this because I remember an old site back in the day that went with this strategy and that was what it resulted in.
With the old system, that was relatively pointless as the points picked up with the increase in giveaways.
They really need to put up a poll on this to see who likes the new system versus how many preferred the old system.
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I agree the new system sets up a bit of an incentive to bank points on slow days and spend them on high-load days but it's easy to overstate its significance. It was still a thing in the old system too, it's just that in the old system banking was to somewhat keep up with the bots. I have backed suggestions to have made the point generation dynamic rather than fixed, with maybe a bit slower than 5points/15min on slow days, and perhaps a bit faster on high demand days. 5points/15min could be the average.
If people want to micromanage their entries insanely to squeeze out a small percentage extra in odds that's their choice. I don't see the advantage gained for the effort required to be worth it.
The main effect after the update is people need to be more selective with what they enter, which is IMO really important. We get better chances on the games we really want to win, and fewer people are spending on giveaways they care little about.
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Couldn't agree more. Used to be that I'd happily check the site every so often to see what giveaways were running, entered the ones I was interested in/thought had a more reasonable chance of winning, then carry on with my day. Now, I have to spend more time weighing up which ones are going to be "worth it" and have the best value prospect versus entries, and ignore a vast swathe of giveaways that I'm interested in but would blow all my points on more or less instantly. As a result of the extra busy work to find viable giveaways, I'm actually visiting the site a lot less often and not really finding it fun anymore.
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So far, I like MUCH MORE this new system. It's more relaxed. Before I was feeling too stressed.
So far, so good. I had many doubts at the beginning, but I am happy.
Also, I hope all bots are banned
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The new system dissapointed me and i have lost my intersting for this site.
The previous was better for all.
Anyway,you have take the desission but i believe many people will stop use this site because now is very tired to wait..
The fair is do a vote for new and old system points and let the users decided what they want
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It helps to place your points more strategically. :O
The new system does work indeed as yesterday I saw my first space cat under the new system! :3
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"The maximum number of points to enter a single giveaway has been decreased from 100 to 50 points" what is mean? i dont get it .
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Max points for a giveaway is now 50p. For example if a game costs 60 dollar in steam store its only 50p to enter.
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in my opinion we dont need 500 , 300 was enough for people who only pick form wish list but for ppl who just want to enter whatever giveaway they see 500 is not enough they might be more happy with 1000 point lol . As of 5 per 15 min is not bad with 300 .
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The reason for 500 cap is because 24 hours gives 480 points. And it was rounded up.
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So that users dont feel the need to visit several times a day. Now its enough to visist once a day without reaching the cap.
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they could have 1000 and still complain, it was x6 before this adjustment. ^^
previous thread: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/kGtHd/point-distribution
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After a few days i can say that i still hate the new system...
Odds are bad... don't know what math other people used, but it's wrong... even the "Probability of Winning Per Day" table shows it's going down since changing system... and i only enter games i want play, it became more like a stupid managment...
In short... the fun went down... :/
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Probability of Winning Per Day is extremely unreliable, as it's based only on your entries, and each day is measured by the chance of winning on that day - it's useless, as if you have like 30% chance of winning on today, then how much chance you had three weeks ago to win the giveaways that end today - you can't just compare dates. If noone would make a giveaway you enter, and would end on tomorrow, you would have 0 chance, regardless of all the other GAs you enter.
And no offense by this, really, but the site is as much management as you make it. Enter once a day, every 6, or every 50 minutes to keep an eye on every giveaways, as you want it. No one's forcing the users into any of them.
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I want use the site in a way it makes fun and it doesn't anymore...
And no my odds are lower now... the site statistic is not correct i know this, but the highest and lowest odds standard is moving down... and there's a reason it started on the day the system changed...
I can enter FEWER gibs (5 times more before) wich have almost the same amount of entries like before, because i don't enter trash...
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A pretty large proportion of your wins seem to be from group/whiltelist GAs with really low entry counts. In fact I noticed several just in the first couple pages where it was 1 entry only. Those are going to massively skew your odds of winning per day. Some of the points on your graph will show 100% because of that.
It may be that if almost all your entries are in such really low-entry GAs (e.g. average less than 30 entries) then you will start winning fewer games because almost all the points you were spending before were being very efficiently turned into wins. If you are avoiding all high-entry GAs, like public ones for AAA games, and only entering really low entry ones, and you're still running out of points faster than you like, then I would say you're in a rather unique position and the generalizations a lot of us are making in this thread won't fit well with your situation.
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If the community stats are up-to-date and accurate... if this new system is so great, why were September giveaways at 134,499 and almost half way through October there have only been 40,811?
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That’s due to people that give equal the amount they receive to keep a certain ratio are giving a lot less, because even if the probability of winning is a little higher the amount of giveaways they can enter decreased a lot, so they end up receiving less overall.. for example in a group user A receives less will create less which will lead to other people from that group to create less and less, and it will keep going until there’s a certain right number that is equal to the amount of points we are getting.. We are used to enter 4 or 5 pages of giveaways now that number is 1
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Could be a lot of other things too. In addition to what you've said, it could be repeat bundles, lack of good sales or good games coming out, Christmas holidays are coming up and people are strapped for cash, etc, etc.
It's too hard to pinpoint, and one month is hardly a good "baseline" for comparison.
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Yep, it's pretty hard to compare my year here to a week, so any comparsison can't be certain, it was just a theory/prediction what it could happen in the future mainly in groups.
October is also a weak month, comparing to december and the summer, but this month concerning bundles we couldn't really complain, has Humble had 3 bundles at the same time and a monthly fresh off the oven.
Anyway it's still too soon to take conclusions but this topic is the most discussed update ever, by far.. whether it's to praise it or to hate it, never seen this much community "outrage" over an update
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So if the giveaway creation rate stays the same, we will have more giveaways than in May or June. Looks like regular fluctuation to me.
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Will have to wait and see for the rest of the group but it has killed it for me. I used to have Steam Gifts URL always up in my browser. Now I just check in for messages... when I remember. No more SG giveaways for me... either created or entered.
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You have been here for 4 months. If you expected the site to remain static you may well be a disappointed. I haven't been here as long as other people and I've seen pretty massive changes in that time. Some have come about due to changes in the growing user base and the scripts it has developed, some have been the result of changes in the way Steam works such as the introduction of region locks and some have been changes to way the site works in reaction to the other changes. I can think of multiple things that at least some people said would kill the site and instead it has continued to grow.
What exactly about these changes have upset you so much that you are going to refuse to use the site as a matter of principle? Are you worried that you have a reduced chance of winning games and the site is not now 'worthwhile'? That remains arguable and if someone wasn't fussy there are certainly a lot of giveaways about now with fewer entries. Do you play your wins? What actual difference would it make if you did win fewer games?
Do you simply feel that you are unhappy if you are unable to click the enter button in giveaways a certain number of times per day regardless of the results? That isn't just dependent on the point regeneration that is set - people also have to make giveaways for you to do that. Do you feel that the rest of us are also obliged to make sufficient giveaways just for you to press the enter button enough times to be happy?
I can easily understand that these changes are controversial and a lot of people don't like the new system as much as the old system. I honestly don't understand the reaction of certain individuals.
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ahhh well math and technicalities aside... this change has sucked out the fun of the site for me...
plus there is an ideological problem here - the change is an overly socialist approach... making those that could not or would not enter many giveaways happy because now noone can.... its a purely socialist approach, limit everyone.
I am prety certain i am not here to game the system and with what i have given i could easily have 3 times the games in my library so its not even a matter of getting the games, its the fun of the process and now a huge part of it is gone, surely not all of it but still.
some say it is cause of the bots, others say its not -in relative terms it does not solve the problem it might make it less pronounced but still there. some say its because ppl were overly worried about spending their points... seriously??? because there are a few ppl psychotic enough to wake up mid night to spend their points - one does not base wide ranging changes on those.
and then there are all those that entered fewer giveaways and are overtly happy cause they now have better chances, even if it was their choice or capability... so the motivation is what in this type of thinking? better chances for themselves nothing else... good for them, but trying to pass it off as a good thing overall is somewhat hypocritical. Its somewhat like saying others should not be able to work more hours if they want to because you either cant or dont want to....
as i mentioned before, my displeasure is not in regards to winning, the chances are close - slightly worse imo, but close enough and my use of SG is not for the purpose of enlarging my game collection... its about the process of it.... now it seems there is much less of it.
less fun (for me at least) ...
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I see you've been around for about 3 years now. cg said that in 2014 (when you joined) the average monthly points were about 7500 (250 per day). The amount we're now getting is 14,400 per month (480 per day), which is almost double what it was back then.
I'm genuinely curious, did you think the site was unfun back then? Could it just be that you'd gotten used to having so many points, and now without those points it will take some time to get used to it?
Personally, what I find much less fun this year compared to when I joined is how much trash there is to sift through now. Thanks to Valve letting practically anything on their platform now, it all ends up on Steamgifts in massive quantities. But this has nothing to do with points.
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It was different for sure and no doubt things were a bit out of whack now, but compared to where it was the diference is a bit extreme. The whole thing graduated to where it was prior to the change - and it was the evolution in number of users and the number of giveaways, coupled with the fact that there are a ton of bundles now. As you say there is also a lot of trash on steam.
All that is valid and the way it affected sg needed to be addressed but why go to something that changes the experience so dramatically. It is also true that the number of users and giveaways is very different also nowadays. even if it was up to me i would suggest a change, but the way it is now the focus has vastly shifted to the points... I respect that you prefer and find the new system more fun, its all personal preferences, but for me its too limited now and I honestly dont understand the reason for the change, it all seems a bit arbitrary and more a matter of persobal aesthetics than anything else. Granted its cg's site and he can do what he wants with it, but I dont undetstand the need for sugar coating it as something othet than that .
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something else... I never said the site is not fun - just that for me the change has shifted the focus to point accounting which is not fun... In all honesty it has nothing to do with the games themselves... take for instance the most recent humble bundle - I want to win VH the final cut, and now I can only enter a fraction of what I could enter before - but its not so much for the game - I could simply buy the bundle and move along... but for me its the whole process of playing around with your luck even if only entering for games that I will play (at some point). I always preferred to only buy games for giveaways and try to win those that I would eventually play - especially since I don't have anywhere near the time I would want to have for games.
The way it is now its more like having to do accounting... 3 years ago the scene was very different - the amount of people, the games available, the bundles available.... sure there was a need for change but this step seriously feels like a step backwards (actually closer to 3years ago) when the environment has drastically changed....
Maybe more than anything, its that I cant understand the positives this change brings, it doesn't seem to tackle the supposed problems and it also seems to address some really arbitrary things.... coupled with the fact that in my mind its purely wrong to have fixed points without taking into account at all the number of giveaways being created - the two are very closely tied and if you look at it - with more points being awarded with more giveaways being created you have a collective progress forward - whereas now it is a static concept - if you attempted to apply these standards in a society/economy you would stagnate it and move straight towards Marxism/communism, with the previous system at least the whole community evolved together - even if there was a lot of room for exploiting it - and that's why it needed to be addressed - but not this way.
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I see what you're saying, but if the system were dynamic instead of static but still with roughly the same average points per day, I don't think most people would notice much difference. I think I understand the link you're making to political concepts but I think it's too far removed to make any meaningful comparisons.
The main point of the change was to level the playing field. A lot of people were wasting a lot of points, probably wasting more points than they were able to actually use. Reducing the number of points made it a bit fairer, but especially removed that advantage from bots, and by the sounds of it cg was really starting to get bothered by the number of auto-join scripts abusing the system. As you said, at the end of the day it's up to him to decide how the site is managed.
I don't find the current system necessarily more fun but leveling the playing field was an important change and the tighter number of points makes the choice of giveaways to enter more meaningful. I recall a saying I read in a book by Warren Mossler about the theory of how banks decide how to lend to:
“If you aren’t taking some losses, you’re costing the bank money.”
In this case, if you aren't missing some giveaways, then you're getting too many points. There's gotta be a bit of risk involved. (I know, the comparison is a bit of a stretch!)
I'd much rather only be able to enter 10 of 20 giveaways for a game I want, rather than enter all 20 and another 10 for games I don't care as much about, because that would probably mean other people are doing the same thing and putting their leftover entries in the game I really want to win.
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I will admit that if it was dynamic, it would make more sense to me even if as you say the points were the same at the end of the day. About the bots I am really not sure, I would think that in relative terms they still will take a significant chunk of the pie... Plus I think that if you decide to tackle that beast it would be better to implement something like a captcha to nip it in the butt once and for all (I am sure that would not be popular either and I hate those thingies, but I would understand that).
Personally I would say that 99% of the time I would not enter for a game I was not really interested (with the exception of some mass giveaways), but it was always more fun to have the points to use than having too few and needing to micromanage.
I wonder how it will affect the number of giveaways long term - I guess we will have to wait and see.
I understand your point of view and I just think the whole thing needs to have some correlation with the number of giveaways created, because a random number of points is a gain too arbitrary, it cant reflect the organic nature of the website.
Say that giveways decrease substantially, then perhaps the available points will be too many - personally I strongly believe that there should be some correlation between giveaways one creates and the points they have available - but that is neither here not there for I wont elaborate no that.
All in all, in my opinion, the change was a bit too sudden and drastic... takes some getting used to (its like being used to going to the casino on an unlimited budget and then suddenly being on a very tight one) :)
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Hello,
Why not increase the points per steamgifts contribution level? or stepwise
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I'd like to change my initial -hasty- comment for the new point system.
First of all, it feels good to have 500p to spend, after a couple of days absence. Having plenty of points, I've relaxedly used nearly half of them and still leave plenty to rot like before. Also, prioritization is the key now and I'm certain that after a month or so, we will all adjust to the new system. New giveaways and trains might take longer to end and humble bundle games will not be thrown into circulation in bulk. Final verdict: not bad at all. 👍😁
I'm curious for an update on how the new system affected auto-joiners -those who were already certified as such in cg's logs.
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I hope that cg will not make a plain count of positive and negative comments, but also which changes thay praise or complain about.
While I have seen a number of positive comments that praise the higher cap and the smaller average amount of points (or that simply say "I like it"), I can't say I have seen positive comments regarding HOW they are distributed with the new system. Now I haven't read all 1391 comments, but enough to see that the majority of comments that say something about the replacement of the dynamic system with a fixed time-based system do not agree with that change.
I strongly agree with those negative feedbacks for the reasons already said. Today it's tuesday. If a good Humble Bundle gets released, I'm pretty sure that many users will finally see what the problem is, and they won't be happy about it.
Let's face it, guys, there is no reason to remove the dynamic system.
Most users like to be more relaxed and avoid hitting the cap? Let's raise the cap.
Most users like to enter averagely less giveaways so that they only pick what they really want to play? Let's reduce the number of points given for each GA created.
But removing the relation between value of GAs created and available points... Just why.
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Closing. Please refer to the most recent discussion.
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Hi SG,
After the recent discussion, updates to the point system are now live. They are as follows:
I think these adjustments will provide a number of improvements for the site. However, I'll keep an eye on user feedback, and try to make sure the changes are working as intended and meeting the needs of the community.
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