Case fans (4) plugged into Motherboard or keep it simple with direct PSU?
You're not even going to give us the specs of your new build?
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By the time I was done putting the train together it was pretty late, specs will be up shortly :)
edit: 4th post (forgot to reserve 1st)
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"... then again new rig is partly designed so I can run Hatred on full specs..."
sadface
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lol why sadface? its therapeutic to play as the bad guy ^^ especially when they are as psychotic as that one %D
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18 years later and a developer feels the need to release a Postal rip-off because of "political correctness".
Also, there are lots of games where you get to be the bad guy, or you can kill. Few are as myopic as Hatred.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying that it should be banned, or anything like that. Just doesn't juxtapose well for me that that's what the new rig is for. It's like using Kobe beef to make a four-year-old a homemade hotdog.
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I get that, but postal was a classic fave of mine, and Hatred basically redid it with awesome visuals and pushed it down a darker road, still wish ESRB wasn't loaded with idiots so it could get console release.
Hatred is far from the only reason I'm building it tho, War for the Overworld is another, and the upcoming Xcom 2 is one of my biggest concerns, I just used Hatreds recommended specs to help me pick parts since it's one of the more resource hoggy games in my collection.
But you do have to admit, that could very well be one of the best hotdogs that 4yr old will ever eat lol
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And look what happened to Postal. Desperate to maintain its shock value the sequels became one long unfunny joke targeted to thirteen-year-old boys. The problem with series like Postal or games like Hatred is that if you don't think they're funny or a good example of social commentary or critique, then they're probably just fairly generic games reliant upon their shock value, and are bawdy and crude failures as social commentary.
I don't know if the ESRB is loaded with idiots but I think Hatred is precisely the sort of game that should receive an AO rating. That major retailers like Walmart have no interest in stocking AO games is a separate issue.
The whole thing about the Kobe beef analogy is that a four-year-old does not have a fine palate, or any sort of understanding of cost or monetary value, and the process of making a hot dog undermines in part the value of using a premium meat. The improvement over what is normally stuffed inside a hot dog casing is lost on a toddler. But to you the game is awesome so the analogy doesn't even apply anyway.
I just think it's easy to make a toneless, unfunny work that epitomizes violent nihilism and say that your motivation is a statement about society or a rejection of political correctness, but when one does that, it makes for a very small bullseye, and I doubt Hatred has hit the mark there.
But you don't see it that way apparently. And that's fine. We just have different opinions on the game.
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Well T can say I understand your points, but I just don't analyze the industry that deeply. Devs reasons or motivations for design and marketing isn't generally in my line of interest, whether or not the final product is something I can enjoy is my only real concern. And that's probably why i enjoyed Postal as much as I did, I was about 13 when I played it, didn't even know there were sequals until last year ^^
I exaggerate alot, ESRB being chock full of idiots, probably isn't the most apt description, but I do feel they overstepped their bounds with Hatreds rating, AO is suppose to be reserves for excessive nudity and pornography, excessive violence and negative role models should not be considered part of that scope. Besides that, they did it to attempt to ensure that younger kids wont get their hands on it, which to some minor extend might work, by helping to kill sales and exposure, but if the kids have an interest or keep up with gaming news, they know its out there, and the AO rating makes it more taboo, likely increasing their interest in it. The ESRB is suppose to use ratings to inform people of content, and leave the decision up to parents, not proactivly say 'you're kids can't have this.' (thats how their rating comes of to me at least)
And I got the hotdog analogy, my response was a joke lol. I have a 4yr old (well, in another month anyway), she won't eat any kind of meat yet, except the occasional bite of hotdog slatered in ketchup, and she won't eat cheese, her tongue has alot a maturing to do.
The short of it is I actively avoid the news and politics of the industry for the same reason I used to avoid MTV (remember when they used to play music?) because a bad or pretentious music video could ruin a perfectly good song. So I'd say I agree to disagree ^^
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It's not about analyzing the industry. A game like Hatred comes along and I naturally think to myself, "oh, what does the dev have to say about the obvious controversy surrounding their game or the impetus for its creation?"
As for the ESRB, why do you think the AO label should be reserved only for excessive nudity and pornography, but not for excessive violence and negative role models? Retailers aren't even supposed to sell M-rated games to those who don't meet the age criteria; of course the AO label is an attempt to restrict the audience--that's the purpose of the ratings in the first place. If a parent wants their ten-year-old to play a game where unarmed noncombatants being murdered is the point of the game, ideally the parent should have to acquire the work on behalf of the child.
I come from a background of playing violent games and seeing violent films and nudity well before I was an adult, and I'm not a parent, but I wouldn't want my ten-year-old to be able to play Hatred, or the GTA series, or even Call of Duty, without having my express permission, at least in my own home.
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My first thought after hearing about Hatred and seeing the trailer was a flood of Postal memories, followed by "same camera angle, darker character, modern graphics with an interesting filter flare? On my list, as long as the devs remember that Postal controlled like **** and give it a fix"
As far as I understand the AO rating, according to the ESRB's guildlines is suppose to be reserved for nudity/pornograpgic content, thats why Hatred is only the 2nd game in history to get the rating without having any sexual content in it. So not only do I see it as ESRB breaking their own rule, but the AO rating implies content that doesn't exist, there are plenty (most I'd actually say) of 17yr olds that can handle the violence levels and beyond over the top character in Hatred, I'd even say a decent amount of 15/16 yr olds that are mature or intelligent enough to handle it without losing sight of the line between fantasy and reality. MA17 or AO, either way a 10 year old would likely not be mature enough to handle it, but with the AO rating a 15/16/17 yr old that would have interest in it, if they live in a 'you need our permission to like something' household, their parents would AO and likely assume pornographic content, without researching it at all, to see how, as realistic as they try making the graphics, how cartoonishly over the top most of the game is. So quick breakdown of some of what I've seen over the years:
COD:MW2 - Killing unarmed non combatants in an airport, mission is replayable to players hearts content, M rating, not MA17+, not AO, M, I assume it's only M because of the last minute addition of the skip button (cheap appeasement after free advertsing on the 5 oclock news), but it's still replayable.
GTAV - Torture scene, not replayable to my knowledge, but still pretty brutal, up there with the finger scene from near the end of Heavy Rain, - M rating again.
I can already hear a rebuttal of those games, those are small scenes in the overall game and not the primary gameplay aspect of it, thats actually why I think those games are WORSE than Hatred, you can only play Hatred for so long before you get numb to it, and the killing becomes so much white noise, your concentration becomes: need ammo, enemy on the left, health two houses back, double back for it, found a bonus molotov... etc, but because those scenes are 1-offs, they become more engrained into memory, thereby potentially doing more damage, in Hatred the bulk of what memory would retain is gameplay mechanics, and trying to survive as long as possible... wow this is getting long lol, sorry, it's late and I'm beat from work, didn't mean to leave you a book
I come from a background of playing/watching whatever perked my interest, violent or not, I've never set any limitations for myself, nor did my parents (except pron), exploration and experience are the keys maturing, but I agree on limitations until my daughter reaches an obvious benchmark, and I can clearly see that she knows the difference between fantasy and reality, which even at 3 she shows healthy signs of that. Side note, my nephews played alot of GTA vice city when they were 11, they are currently well adjusted, stable adults, with no history of violence, except to vice city hookers.
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Firstly, I wasn't trying to draw you out into an argument about Hatred or violence in games. I just had a little comment about you building a PC in part specifically to play Hatred, and maybe I should have kept that to myself. Nevertheless, you have responded with what I feel is a baseless support of the game and a condemnation of its rating.
The ESRB's description of AO:
"ADULTS ONLY
Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up. May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and/or gambling with real currency."
Not only is the rating not restricted to sex/nudity, but even if it was, it doesn't answer my question of why you think that for instance a depiction of simulated/actual sex acts is worse than a depiction of simulated/actual violent acts.
You're trying to compare Hatred to COD and GTA? Why? To say that Hatred is better than the other two because the other two contain brief scenes of torture or the killing of civilians but Hatred numbs the player to indiscriminately killing? This is not a position supported by evidence.
Let's think of a real life for instance. All things being equal, which child is more likely to act out violently: the child who grows up in a generally stable home, and witnesses "normal" arguments with his parents but one time sees them get into a somewhat serious fight for which one has to be treated at the hospital, or the child that frequently sees their parents injure each other in confrontations?
And even then, there's no false dilemma. Hatred isn't unsuitable for the vast majority of minor video game players because they're going to go out and turn into thugs if they play the game. It's unsuitable for them because they're still being shaped and molded, and they're still impressionable, there are still being formed through experiences that will be imprinted upon them indelibly. Anecdotes about what yourself, or how well-adjusted your nephews are don't support your position; they're just anecdotes. I too consumed all manner of violent media growing up. If I were a violent adult, would that I consumed violent media growing up be an appropriate basis for the condemnation of it? I don't think so. Anecdotes just are that, and little more. I have turned out okay, but that doesn't mean allowing me to be exposed to sex and violence was good parenting.
I haven't considered whether or not the ESRB does a good job or not in general, but I don't find their rating for Hatred to be inconsistent or hypocritical. And despite your assertion that teens can handle Hatred, I think most parents are glad that they have a limited avenue to make some decisions over what their minor children are exposed to, even if our protections therein are inadequate or too broad. It's better to have airbags and side airbags and crumple zones and computer collision detection in your automobile but if all you have is a seatbelt, that's better than nothing.
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I'll try to keep this one short, since machine is together now and have tons of updates and download to get started on, and just a quick note, I never thought of any of this as an argument, if any of my statements have come across as aggressive I apologize, most of them have been put together while working or half asleep, overbooked life this week.
For the most parts I think they do their job fairly well, I just disagree with them in this instance, for the reasons I've previously mentioned. I didn't know what their exact guidelines were, because to me that would have been 'actively gathering' industry information, and I don't do that, might ruin some fun somewhere down the line, I just assumed based on personal observations over the last... 20 years?! wow I'm getting old if they've been at this for that long (if memory serves) ><
As for your real life example, I grew up around a lot of both of those instances, not my home (my parents never even so much as raised their voices at each other), but friends, and the end results were a completely mixed bag, so as far as personal experience goes, I can't attest to there being a conclusive outcome to either scenario, only 1 of them turned out to have a particularly violent streak, and oddly enough he had rather laid back parents like mine. It seems to be entirely dependent on the temperament of the individual child, I'm also not going to look up a national average statistic because I've never found proof of their accuracy, or proof of the neutrality of the groups compiling the statistics, I'm sure that only people with a vested interest in a particular outcome of the statistics are actually compiling the lists, not all, but if it doesn't support whatever argument they are trying to make, they likely would just throw the information out.
And I didn't bring up COD and GTA to say Hatred is better than they are, was simply comparing content vs ratings, and what I felt could be the most prominent mental impact from them, specifically memory impact. I just think COD and GTA would be more likely to stay with the player over Hatred. I know those two scenes and haven't even played the games they are in, keep in mind I do what I can to avoid as much game related news as I can, they just happened to have slipped through the cracks, my wifes 2 kids (16 &19) played gtaV in the next room and I saw through the door, and COD's bit was on the 5 oclock news, meanwhile I have 4 hours of playtime in Hatred myself, and couldn't tell you much about it at all, but again, I'm also getting old and far less impressionable, lol
It's not so much an issue of parenting with me, it's an issue of letting a company do the parenting for us, they are suppose to inform, don't dictate, and I feel they crossed that line with Hatred.
ugh it got long again ><... I'm relatively certain you still disagree, and I was fine with that outcome from the start, not trying to dissuade your resolve, just noting that I clearly have a different view of it.
BTW, last 2 cars have been added to the train, hope at least one of them is of interest to you ^^
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You didn't seem aggressive. If anything I seemed aggressive when I said "baseless support". I was just trying to get at that I wasn't trying to have an argument initially, I just wasn't persuaded by your reasoning. I was just curious about why you thought the ESRB made a mistake with the rating, and why you alluded to sexual content seemingly needing to be more strictly regulated or harshly labeled than violent content.
I haven't even looked at the train since the first time I visited the thread. I should do that instead of being argumentative. Thanks for the train and thanks for tolerating my pedantry.
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FIRE!!! STOP!----- HAMMERTIME!----- BUMP!
I need marshmallows...
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Celebrating my final parts showing up for my new rig, also hoping these GA's might grant me some good karma points from life so the build will go well without any nasty surprises.
Nothing too fancy, bunch of leftover bundle keys, but still...
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/XiF8Y/
Hopefully I'll be sending keys to winners from the new machine, if I get a bad part, or the whole thing explodes into flames after I touch it, I'll get the keys to winners from my tablet, just with slightly sadder mouse clicks XD... /:(
Good luck all
P.S. will be adding a couple cars to the train after these public GA's end Friday night:
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/f9cC3/
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/vNqOm/
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/Zjik7/
Train Part 2, whitelist (to new bumpers: I'm adding you to whitelist as soon as I can)
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/kiSfv/
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