No mate seriously. Do you think I am joking? It's the best thing Valve can do. Scams will drastically reduce
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So what you are suggesting is people should be able to take back their items within 24 hours?
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abrevation of like u said maybe? I need to explain everything lol? Use ur brain pls :p
"Grrr"
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Saying just "like" doesn't remotely imply "like you said".
The language barrier is pretty severe here, so please be patient.
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so those "like" as in "i like that" instead of "it like/similar to A, B,C "? yeah, turn out i understand it wrong
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But what if you are trading for something not on steam? (e.g. game keys)
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Not really. It would allow for people to scam much more easily, being able to cancel a trade after the fact.
Whenever you trade steam items for something else, you could send your items, get the stuff and take your items back,
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if you don't have time to waste to translate it maybe don't waste our time as automatic translation in many places does not make any sense.
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Another possibility is to leave the original French. Let people translate (or just read it) on their own.
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A valve (TM) manager... do you mean Super Mario?
Now seriously, did you get any reply?
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I think what he is trying to describe is the ability to cancel a trade deal you had with someone within 24 hours.
It would be a dick move if you changed your mind and canceled an already done deal with somebody. And if you trading items for cd keys it would obviously be disastrous and scammers would love it.
Negotiation with a valve manager ? Lol
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This does seem like a joke. I have doubts this could work.
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You know, the majority of real life contracts do contain clauses like the OP suggests, but those are usually accompanied by non-refundable deposits, to stop people abusing the system.
Clearly a system like that could never work on Steam.
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This isn't what Steam support is for. I understand your frustrations and you might have some great ideas (I sure have some of my own criticism with how they handle their Greenlight/Direct/Storefront...).
But they are meant for customer support, and will almost certainly reply with a simple "thank you for your feedback" and bin it. Not because they are malicious, but because this isn't their department. If they forward it to their manager(s) they'll laugh in their faces and tell them to stick to their own department.
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But they are meant for customer support, and will almost certainly reply with a simple "thank you for your feedback" and bin it
As a CS, this. If you send stuff at the wrong place we won't do shit, not because we don't want to, but because our system literally doesn't allow us the ability to do anything. May be different depending on the company/support, but chances are it's the same.
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Please invite me to initiate a thorough negotiation on the subject with a Valve (TM) manager.
:)))))))))))))))))
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I'm tempted to sit on my flatbed scanner with my pants down and send the results to Steam support with that message...
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You can't say he never answers if you never sent before. Other people sent and got a response.
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Have you ever thought that your emails are maybe not worth answering to? You can't say he doesn't 'cause he didn't to you.
Ever thought that your suggestion may not be covering all the benefits/disadvantages that may occur? Had I been the CEO of a big company, I wouldn't answer to half thought suggestions either.
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As funny as that should be.
There was a post about a guy who contacted Gabe and had his account restored after his brother committed credit card fraud on that account.
So he might bother reading this.
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I'm pretty sure he reads a lot of emails when he has time. I mean, it's not like he's making HL3. (see, this is a joke. I wasn't joking the first time)
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what you should do with this (Great idea btw) is send it directly to lord GabeN through his email
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Can someone explain to me how you can get scammed trading in steam?
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Well,
By getting an offer of a dota item vs ur knife and u thought dota item will get u better knife from the guy who wanted it.
yep I got scammed
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this is not getting scammed, this is making bad trade. you traded for something you thought was worth even more and it turned out to be worth less. you call it a scam? this way if it worked and you got an item worth more by your definition you would be the one scamming.
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doubt it ;) because with his idea even if he made wonderful trade trader would be able to go back on it in next 24h. Guess then he would write to Valve to stop scammers like this guy who just cancelled a trade ;)
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This can be a scam in some situations.
Person A wants to buy ALL "crude leather pants" (insert whatever item) for 500 gold each. Add me to friends or COD in mail if you get some.
Person A makes an alt and sells said item for 300 gold each.
Person B makes a fucking killing! 200 profit each! what the fuck!!!
Person B finds out Person A isn't buying any of them and "cruide leather pants" is a useless item.
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1st - what you described is exactly what would happen if OP stupid idea was put into live. I see you selling same item as I am selling? I dump it's price by 50% or 75% or heck, sell it for 1 cent. Why? Simply to put you away from the market - I will lose nothing as I will simply cancel all trades in 24h, but my main goal will be getting rid of you. Either you dump the price as well - and I buy you out with an alt, or you concede and I will get rid of competition for free.
2nd - it has nothing to do with situation OP described. Situation OP described was simply OP being salty because trade OP thought was profitable (he would get even better knife aka earn money) turned out to be not profitable. It was not a scam, it was OP making bad trade. And if you want to profit someone always gotta make bad trade. This time it was OP, if OP did profit person making bad trade would be the other guy. Neither of these is a scam.
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To me the problem is that Person B is a greedy SOB.
Is this a scam? Yes But Person B would only be scammed if they were out to make a quick buck.
I feel no sympathy for anybody who wants to get rich quick. Either their are being scammed or are about to screw over somebody making a mistake. Either way, they deserve what they get.
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So you didn't check what you were trading before accepting?
That's less of a scam and more of you not thinking things through.
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thanks valve admin gabe™ for reading this letter and confirming everything is wrong with scammers 💜
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From what I can understand, you suggest a 24 hours hold on every trade. Nah, I'll pass.
It would prevent scams and would help people that are trading an item or 2 once a day or every other day. However, traders that deal in bulk and sell/buy daily in massive volumes, cannot possibly afford to have their items on hold for 24 hours.
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You don't understand.
You'll get your items, but if you see that the exchange was unfair you'll decline for a 24Hrs time
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Which means that if I was to trade the items that I received with a 3rd person, he would get his items back. Now you have a traded rolled back that has nothing to do with the one that was canceled. What if I sold those items for something that cannot be traded outside of Steam Trade window?
E.G. What if I traded a CS:GO skin for CS:GO keys, sold the keys for Paypal and the person who bought the CS:GO skins decides that he wants his keys back. What now?
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I said 24 Hours for an example. to avoid this we can litteraly make an escrow system of maybe 15 mins?
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It still wouldn't prevent any of those. I can't see how those 15 mins, or an hour or w/e can make you change your mind. You have all the time to think before trading and you have to go through multiple steps before the trade can be finalized. Will those couple mins/hours really have an impact?
I'm sorry, but I can't take your suggestion seriously. It causes way more trouble than it manages to prevent.
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Honestly, if you don't realize a trade is unfair BEFORE agreeing to it and finishing it then it's your own fault.
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Not even the auth system can save some people from themselves :D
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The auth system made thing even more unsafe in my eyes, since it's introduced some sort of confirmation fatigue (manual confirmation of penny items) and increased need for automation (asf, SDA ...) fewest number of people using it understand. 2FA on the same device is a stupid idea to begin with.
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Sadly, your right. And it's exactly those people who blame everybody else for their own stupidity. ^^
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Can't wait to see the copy paste response you eventually get in about 3 years.
Also your idea has many many flaws .
1st those items must be made unusable for that thinking period or whatever you want to call it or many issues can come up.
And if you are a trader , that can have negative effects , often people trade for stuff they plan to use as they got it
What if it's cards and the guy used them to craft a badge ? Or gems used to craft a booster , or booster that was opened then a foil card pop and was sold on market . Or emoticons turned into gems ?
What if it's in game item ? Like DotA stuff ? A treasure for example . You trade it away and the guy open it , but don't like what he get so he trade back it or duno ho should we call that .(that is ofc if valve is willing to remove the result items , and restore them in their original form)
2nd , what if there is steam keys being involved ?
Guy A sells a game worth 5.5 keys , guy B gives 6 keys and ask for something worth half a key in return ... So via steam trade window we have 6 keys being traded for 1 ToD or w.e .
Then guy B gets his game key , and trade back claiming that 1ToD was unfavorable trade for him .
Yup and that's me thinking for about 2 minutes how to break your system , and I'm dumb as fuck .... Can't imagine what anyone smarter can come up with .
Sry mate thanks for trying but that's just a bad idea
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Well we can ameliorate it :)
Also CD-keys trading aren't allowed by Steam so they won't think so. Just trade with reputable people
1st* I said 24 Hours for an example. to avoid this we can litteraly make an escrow system of maybe 15 mins?
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I mean even reputable people can scam others . Also if you only trade with reputable people ... It kinda destroys the point of your suggestion , since there should be almost no risk ....
Also just cause key trade is not officially supported , doesn't mean most of us don't do it.
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Valve has improived a lot lately. Last week I got my copy-paste response within two days.
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i think you grossly overestimate how much valve cares about the opinions, concerns or problems of any of us customers
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it was in french and I don't have time to manually translate it lol;
If it's not worth making it comprehensible, why should anybody waste the time to read it?
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Some parts doesnt make sense i can only guess what you try to say, and a lot of people dont know french . Take some time and edit the post with a proper translation please
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I always chuckle when people think they are smarter than the company of a leading video game market.
They are doing and not doing things for a good reason. They have top notch marketing team, I can assure you. They are not incompetent as they look. They don't need any advice.
If you really felt the urge to give them advice then okay, so be it but still there is one thing: How the hell do you think that they will actually invite you to negotiate? I mean, what the actual f.
Are you the CEO of billionaire company? If not then WHY do you think they will ever take you seriously?
You call yourself a "developer" but you really don't know anything about how these things work. Are you and indie developer? Then educate yourself about how companies and their marketing scheme works.
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Companies are always looking for feedback, both external and internal.
As dumb as this suggestion is, offering feedback to companies isn't. It can shift priorities or inform situations the aren't aware of.
Companies are often a bureaucratic mess, and nothing ensures they are making the best decision possible, or that they are perfectly in touch with their customer base.
How many times have you seen companies make poorly thought through decisions that ended up alienating the userbase/losing them money? In my case, too many.
No idea, where you get this idea that companies always know best and people who give them feedback don't know shit. Individuals might not matter, but masses do, especially now with how easy it is to organize. Just look at the Paradox and Take 2 situations.
On the negotiation/invitation part, yeah that's pretty hilarious.
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"people who give them feedback don't know shit." - I never criticized the content itself, but OP has no idea how "suggestions" work.
"companies always know best" - never said anything remotely close to this, I talked about VALVE only.
Valve is not looking for any kind of feedback or suggestions, if you think so then you are either new or delusional. They already proved it over the years - they don't care. There was only one occasion when they made a huge flop: paid mods. They did not remove it because they cared about the feedback of mere mortal gamers, they removed it because journalists made a huge shitstorm about it.
With nearly 15 million users daily, I'm pretty sure they made the best decisions . Are those decisions customer friendly or not doesn't matter. It's all business.
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Valve is not looking for any kind of feedback or suggestions, if you think so then you are either new or delusional. They already proved it over the years - they don't care.
On the other hand just giving up should never be an alternative. However, the high expectation which is shown here by the OP is at least naive.
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No offense, but isnt it a bit... much to be asking Valve to take the time to add in yet another step for trading, just because you took a bad deal? This seems more like a "take personal responsibility" situation, than an actual flaw in the system that needs correcting.
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Aren't there all kinds of warnings on the trade window, too?
At any rate, agreed. Can't really hold a car manufacturer liable if you're driving with your eyes closed.
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Yup. Plus having to go confirm the trade in the app
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May I ask you to share your requests at other institutions (like government, authorities, NGOs, companies)? Laughing is healthy.
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What I sent to Steam Support Actually :
P.S. sorry for mistakes but it was in french and I don't have time to manually translate it lol;
"Good evening,
I find an inequality in the Steam system. I would like to have a discussion with a Valve (TM) manager.
Indeed, I find the possibility of canceling an exchange that is considered unequal after a finished exchange, a violation of the user's rights. It is his right to cancel the exchange if After all seemed bad (high value item for a low one) ** Within a time limit set by Valve (TM) (example: 24 Hours). This system is similar to that of waiting for exchanges if we do not have a "Steam Guard Mobile" system activated for at least 7 days (which is 15 days), which differentiates the latter from the system Valve owes 'Impose for a short time (It will be called "Chargeback" similar to Paypal's Payback (TM) system) is that:
1- The system will be short-lived (in fact the user will soon realize its error.) We're human despite the security one can fall into the trap.
2- The items will be in the inventory of the each other. As a normal exchange with possibility of "Chargeback" within 24 hours max.
** Benefits of the system:
1- Increased security of the Steam system. This would significantly reduce the number of scams in trade (this is completely logical)
2- This Does not reduce the Valve (TM) economy "No addition / deletion of item. The number of items will remain the same.
3- This would attract more and more players to initiate exchanges (especially those who get scammed and left it) ** This will be very beneficial to the economy of Valve (TM)
Finally,
Please invite me to initiate a thorough negotiation on the subject with a Valve (TM) manager. I'm sure this is going to be beneficial to the players and Valve (TM). Please apply it. With my sincere salutations. I appreciate you work on the platform, Steam is magic, make it more!
Developer and Trader
Original Msg :
Bonsoir,
Je trouve une inégalité dans le système Steam. Je voudrais bien pouvoir engager une discussion avec un responsable de Valve(TM).
En effet, je trouve la possibilité d'annuler un échange qu'on juge inégale après un échange fini, une enfreint aux droit de l'utilisateur. Il est de son droit d'annuler l'échange si il a jugé mauvais Sous un délai fixé par Valve(TM) (exemple: 24 Heures). Ce système est semblable a celui de l'attente d'échanges si nous ne possédons pas un système "Steam Guard Mobile" activé au moins 7 jours (qui est de 15 jours), ce qui différencie ce dernier du système que Valve se doit d'imposer pour un délai court (On l'appellera "Chargeback" similaire au système Chargeback de Paypal(TM) ) est que :
1- Le système sera de courte durée (en effet l'utilisateur se rendra vite compte de son erreur. On est humain malgré les sécurités on peut tomber dans le piège.)
2- Les items seront dans l'inventaire de l'autre. Comme un échange normal avec possibilité de "Chargeback" dans un délai de 24 Heures max.
**Les bienfaits du système :
1- Sécurité augmentée du système Steam. Cela réduirait de manière importante le nombre d'arnaques dans les échanges (C'est complètement logique)
2- Cela Ne réduit en Rien l'économie de Valve(TM) "Aucun ajout/suppression d'item. Le nombre resteras identique.
3- Ceci attirerais de plus en plus de joueurs a initié des échanges (surtout ceux qui se font arnaqués et l'ont quitté) **Ce Qui sera très bénéfique pour l'économie de Valve(TM)
Finalement,
Je vous prie de m'inviter a initier une négociation approfondie sur le sujet avec un responsable de Valve(TM). Je suis sur que cela va être bénéfique pour les joueurs et Valve(TM). Je vous prie de l'appliquer. Avec mes sincères salutations. J'apprécie vous travaux sur la plateforme, Steam est magique, rendez le plus!
*SpeedX
Developpeur et Trader
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