Please remove the link to developer facebook. While we are all really frustrated that our game got revoked, this shouldn't be a "witch-hunt" on the developer and any of his personal info should not be shared. "Calling out" is a punishable offense and it will get you suspended on sg.
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Naw, apparently it's ok. A very well-known SteamGifter has been doing the same for months to some "developer" who backed out from providing keys for several Greenlight Bundles and as far as I know he didn't get suspended for it.
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prolly noone reported him/her yet? if you think what he is doing faslls under calling out (he is not calling out developer/comapny but rather doxxing actual person behind this) you may report them yourself. Support not suspending someone does not necessary mean they agree with this someone - they may simply not be aware of rulebreaking if noone reported it.
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If you think what he is doing falls under calling out (he is not calling out developer / company but rather doxxing actual person behind this) you may report them yourself.
Yeah, you're right. It is doxxing rather than calling out. And if I cared I would do just that.
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well, tbh if you don't do that then you don't really have the right to say "support does nothing about that" ;)
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That's not what I said. What I said was "Apparently it's ok according to the current interpretation of the SteamGifts rules."
If people wanna waste their time fighting some petty online disputes I'm ok with that.
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didn't get suspended for it.
He actually did get, when stepping over the line, though I think it was ('only') for insulting and AFAIK he never doxed him or posted any kind of private links.
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I stand corrected then.
I tried to look for that thread earlier today and I even found it but I only skimmed it and couldn't find a post exposing the devs identity neither but I could have sworn somebody (not necessarily the main person leading that debate) did. Maybe that post got deleted by now or it never existed and I'm mixing that up with a discussion about a different problematic "developer".
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different problematic "developer".
another? damn how many are there of those xD
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How many grains of sand are there in the Sahara ? :D
As long as there are Trading cards and Achievements there will be more and more of them. It's just human nature. They see poorly designed games and asset flips on Steam cashing in on Trading Card Collectors and Achievement Hunters and think:
Hey, I can do that as well.
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At least TCs have been limited. I'm sure some will not earn with those so quickly anymore.
But achievement spam still going on indeed.
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Calling out rule, in fact, only applies to sg users.
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Even if so, doxxing as an illegal activity would probably still fall under "Inappropriate Behavior" suspension.
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linking a publicly visible facebook page isn't doxxing
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wrong. doxing for your own - collecting data which is avaiable online like on FB or other platforms is not illegal, but publishing this data in public without agreement of person you doxxed is illegal if it contains personal information, as it breaks personal information protection laws.
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According to the charta of worldwide law or which jurisdiction is SteamGifts in ?
This is the Wild West, baby :D
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see my comment below ;) ofc it's just my interpretation - I work in IT not in legal system, so I am not specialist, but if SG is hosted in US and owned by US citizen and/or company it probably falls under US law, where court defined that doxing is illegal.
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While all that is very theoretical and I've never seen anybody here follow through with their "I'm so going to sue you / that developer for doing this or that."-claims, you make a very good point and you should probably bring this issue to the attention of support or cg so they can consider updating the rules to include doxxing since it seems to be a growing problem over the last few years. (not here on SG in particular but all over the interwebs in general)
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I fully support clarification on the rules on that subject, even including a general fb-linking prohibition. Rule-formulation is way too ambiguous in several parts.
Though important that threads like these, factually reporting about fraudulent behavior without exposing private info, remain allowed. Otherwise it would be like protecting scammers.
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publishing this data in public
it is already public
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Ii is public, and it is still illegal for you to publish it. To give you the plainest example possible - let's assume someone is an idiot - they publish their CC number or Social Insurance Number or anything like that on the internet. It becomes public. still if you forward their CC number or use it on your own you will still be commiting the crime. If you publish their social incurance/security number or use it to for example get a loan - you will still be breaking the law.
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a cc number is obviously a private object.
a public facebook page is not, it is public
I'll quote wiki for you
doxing is revealing and publicizing records of an individual, which were previously private or difficult to obtain.
posting his address or telephone would be doxing, an fb page is not
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You quote a wiki for me, wiki that can be edited by anyone, I quoted for you an article describing an actual verdict by actual court in US deciding on said matter. I wonder why you do not comment on the article and bring up common sense and wiki quotes instead :) I think it's pretty-much self-explanatory itself so I will leave it on that :)
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cause that article has lots of text w/o saying anything, it doesn't support your assumptions, quote the relevant part where you think it does
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yeah, yeah, I get it, TL;DR, so let me copy-paste some of this lots of text that doesn't support anything:
Count Two alleges that Barrett Brown asked someone to find info on the internet about the FBI Agent, and someone searched on the internet for such information. The indictment does not state that the information was ever found or ever posted; it does not need to be. The Conspiracy allegedly exists because the two people, Barrett and someone else known to the grand jury, allegedly agreed to commit this crime. If two people agree to commit a crime and some step is taken in furtherance of the crime, conspiracy exists.
It’s against the law to “dox” a federal employee, that is, to publish their private information — home address, etc. — in order to expose the employee to harassment or intimidation. - Private information, not restricted information, and in order to harass or intimidate - disclosing even the freaking FB page in order for other people (or yourself) to harass and/or intimidate someone is a crime. And it was clearly intention here.
Doxing is always illegal, whether it is done against a federal employee, a state employee, or a regular person.
With regular citizens, doxing falls under various state criminal laws, such as stalking, cyberstalking, harassment, threats, and other such laws, depending on the state.
A state prosecutor can only prosecute violations of the laws of his or her own state, and of acts that extend into their state. When acts are on the internet, they extend into all the states.
Misinformation was spread that doxing is legal. I am not sure how or why anyone fell for that misinformation. Surely, people must understand instinctively, even if they were misled about the law, that if they are threatening someone or putting them at risk, or tormenting or harassing the other on the internet, that this must be illegal. Common sense would tell you that bullying or jeopardizing another would be illegal in some way. So yes, doxing is illegal, no matter who the target.
And you seriously do not see how this article refers to anything we are discussing? Or did you just not read it and like I said before, you ignore arguments with direct quotes of a verdict, quotes some of I brought up above, but you know you cannot adress them, so you ignore them and go with your "common sense" instead, because some random person on the internet edited wikipedia article saying "doxing is legal"?
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saying "doxing is legal"?
I never said that. I said that posting a public facebook page is not doxing in the first place.
A quote from your article:
It’s against the law to “dox” a federal employee, that is, to publish their private information — home address, etc.
Doxing = private info, not public.
simply bhecause someone thinks that he can be smartass, ignore any presented arguments and just say "not true". It's pretty much the level of discussion with some flat-earth believer, no matter what argumets you present they will not even read you and just 'counter' with "not true".
funny, I have the same impression from discussing with you the two times I bothered to. Though I wouldn't go so low to call you a flat-earth believer, just stubborn.
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anyway as stated before, I am done, what I posted is self-explanatory, not really going to waste my time copy-pasting stuff and explaining over and over again, simply bhecause someone thinks that he can be smartass, ignore any presented arguments and just say "not true". It's pretty much the level of discussion with some flat-earth believer, no matter what argumets you present they will not even read you and just 'counter' with "not true".
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In addition, as SG is hosted in US and owned by US citizen, and since US has precedence law: http://theothermccain.com/2012/11/19/update-walker-v-kimberlin-et-al-also-why-doxing-is-always-illegal/
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Just another one of those garbage games. No idea what the story is. I just came here to make a joke about the developer deserving to get the death penalty.
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welp mine got revoked as well. pretty sure i got it from tremorgames so stay away from those keys.
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Few top reviews even suggest, copies bought on steam get revoked.
Will put it in op warning people.
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I've seen more than one claim that they have had their copies revoked purchased from the store.
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Those aren't true.
Steam purchases aren't assigned cd-keys and thus can't be revoked. Thus it would've to be manually processed by Valve and that won't happen.
Another way would be to remove depots, but that would appear on SteamDB. Entry for library would stay since developers can't remove apps from packages if game is released.
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The 'top reviews' that suggest Steam-bought copies will get revoked used giveaway/bundle keys (NOT steam copies) to write the reviews - you can tell by filtering based on keys. This makes their claims incredibly suspect..
I'm not saying that the dev isn't up to some shady stuff by deactivating keys for the game, but the devs can't/didn't revoke Steam-Store copies - just activated keys from a mass giveaway (and possibly bundled ones).
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I still have my copy. Got it two weeks ago from DIG store.
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That landscape looks very familiar. I believe it's one of the same maps that I used for a terrain rendering project for honours about a decade ago.
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Still have my copy, but since I got it mid January, I'll be joining the others here soon enough.
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Others who got it around that time have indicated their copy was revoked.
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From what I've read most seem to be a bit later. Mine is a January win on here. If it gets revoked do I just use the 'Other' category for the support ticket to change feedback?
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That would be the best spot for it, but also contact the original gifter letting them know what happened complete with a link to this topic. They can request a giveaway deletion when / if it happens.
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Apparently steam revocation is bugged, and may not revoke all keys is you feed too much.
So maybe that is reason.
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Still have it, but I have no clue of where I got it so it might get removed later. I got it on april 25 in case that's somehow useful.
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A collection of maybe useful links;
VI Games Steam Profile, thanks to Masafor.
VI Games Email: vigamesofficial@gmail.com thanks to Masafor.
VI Games Twitter account,thanks to MeeMesmo.
VI Games MOD DB PreeKit, thanks to 101lols.
VI Games Indie DB PressKit, thanks to 101lols.
A useful "article", thanks to Avantyr.
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while most links are ok and helpful, VI Games founder FaceBook acount is not ok to post. It is doxxing and it is illegal in many western countries. Any action against a company that did you wrong should be persecuted against this company, not via disclosing personal informations about it's owner, styarting personal witch-hunts etc.
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Yeah, you are right about that.
Fixed it. And thanks for the heads up.
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Revokings have ceased for now, 145 on my FL still own it since 9 hours, before it dropped from 300+ within few hours.
It fits with dev going offline, possibly he's doing it manually.
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Still have mine, I have no idea where mine came from tho.
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yea this upset me. not that i care about the game. but mostly just cuz the dev is a jerk for doing it to everyone lol
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any solution about "not active won game"?
I can't pass that rule now, coz this game got revoke....
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Still have mine. For some info, got it from DIG Bundle 84 back in January. Activated key on Jan 14, 2017 according to my Steam account.
Hope this info helps.
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tldr - didn't profit enough from bundle so revoked keys.
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I sold you something.
Didn't like the price I agreed on.
I will take my something back and keep the money.
Cause I made a mistake.
Why is this guy quiet?
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They were revoking even Steam store purchases according to users, and other users also paid, so no matter how unsatisfied they are, they should not be doing so to those users.
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I got my key in March and it was revoked. I filed a fraud complaint with Steam for it. Devs shouldn't be allowed to just randomly take away keys whenever they feel like it.
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Mine has NOT been revoked as of yet. I think I got if from DIG Super Bundle 84 in January.
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Is this legal, games that peopled paid for being revoked?
I got mine for free, or next to nothing from a trade
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Kind of, I think the whole license thing is a loophole that allows them to reserve the right to take away your access at any point.
It shouldn't be unless they start granting refunds.
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Now it's a question of is someone going to take legal action?
Maybe someone like Jim Sterling.
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HooRay
back in my library as well.
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Yep. Now I can go back to playing this perfect game... oh, no wait. ;->
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i would have been happier if the developer had done it himself.
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Not 100% sure who did w/o any official info, but currently I rather suspect a Valve intervention too.
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The ones that already had their title returned, got something like "revocation not fully merited"
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I saw a picture of such support reply but it also said of not knowing any details, so it's not fully clear.
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still got mine (EDIT: and it was never removed). but i don't remember where i got it from.
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Same situation here, mine wasn't revoked.
I got it from the DIG Super Bundle 84.
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I got the double bundle and gifted the second key here and I haven't heard from the winner and have no marked not received on my profile. So I guess everything ended well for me, him\her and all the others that bought or won this game.
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In theory such activities by the dev (revoking keys that were legally purchased because "he didn't make enough money on them") can end up with Valve ceasing all bussiness with a dev and removing all his games from the store, it did happen in the past. In such situation some "removed games collectors" may feel an urge to purchase the game which is soon to be removed to own another no-longer-obtainable-game. The fact that you would not buy the game yourself does not mean noone else would, so the warning is very much in it's place.
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yeah - anyone not whinking the way you do yourself must either be crazy or stupid :) Not first time I hear such bullshit from you, but thanks for reminding me why I keep you BLed :)
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collectioner do not buy games only to play it, same goes for every collectioner - collectioner of cars may buy shitty rare car just to own it, not to drive it, collectioner of action figures will never open his figure boxes and play with them, he just wants to own them, collectioner of post stamps will never use his stamps to send a letter and so on and on. So again - you cannot bear the mind that someone is buying something you are also buying for different reasons, and anyone buying it for different reasons than you is crazy/stupid.
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+1 Very aptly put. Obsessive behaviour is something that can (and should) be adressed.
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Collection is most often not an investment. Vast majority of collectors never sell their collections. There are art collections in rich families going on for generations without selling anything or getting any profit. Could you please present any form of ewvidence backing your argument that majority of collections are based on profit aka being investement? Or do you just pull out arguments out of yer arse, as such arguments without any backing cannot be debunked, because there is no data behind them, either confirming nor denying them in the first place :)
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Lol, this seems a tad wonky. A collector buys "Rare" stuff, not saturated things. IE, the majority of these bundle/indie games they are throwed on steam and occasionally removed. I made a statement about this on the first page about how so many people are always complaining how terrible these games are, yet they're are the first ones to buy this poop to +1 to their library.
I consider myself a collector of games as well, buuuuut I have an ounce of dignity not to collect crap lol.
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one can collect different stuff from the other. Someone will collect good games, other will collect "no longer avaiable games". Same with all other kinds of collections. Some art collector may collect painting he doesn't really like simply because it's rare, because painter only made very little paintings etc. My fiancee's father collects stamps and coins. And really - there are some really beautiful stams that are worthless, while some ugly stamp with some ugly prtrait may be priceless - not because it's so beautiful and magnificent, but simply because it's rare, because there were only ever 100 stamps like this printed etc.
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I had the message from Steam about it being revoked, I clicked the message and the game was gone.
Today the game is back, but didn't get any message about it.
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Mine was revoked as well. This makes me feel really uncomfortable. This kind of behavior is bad for the platform. Cheapens the feel of my library. It's just a bunch of codes that can be revoked anytime.
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That is how I always felt about my Steam account, it's why I held out so long before even making one. I kept buying physical copies until they started being just codes in a box that forced me into using Steam.
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Well, the game is sh*t so who cares. It's not a huge loss.
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for anyone who happened to win it on SG it is quite a huge loss as suddenly they appear as a rulebreaker.
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Then this game should have never existed in the first place so there wouldn't be any rulebreakers.
And if there wouldn't be any scumbag developers such as this one, then there wouldn't be any crappy indie games to begin with and we wouldn't have this problem.
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but the game does exist, And people who won it, or bought bundle with it are absolutelly not the ones to be blamed for winning it / buying bundle with it, because "well it should not exist, your fault it does exist". Such argumentation is beyond retarded levels. Oh, your mother is dying of cancer? Her fault, such a horrible disease as canser should have never existed in the first place, then ppl would not be dying of it.
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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
No one is blaming anyone, but the developer who made that action.
Comparing this to cancer is like comparing a lost treasure or trash to a gun that is about to fire. They don't compare all that well.
Yes, scumbag developers exist just to earn undeserved profit and you can't stop them from coming.
Yes, crappy games exist just for the people to make fun of them (or collect them and never play them which boggles my mind, but he) and since these games are so cheap, sites that make bundles have decided to profit off of these games.
Which brings me to the next kind of people. Reviewers. Because they are the only brave people who actually play these bad games, so they can warn others about them.
People such as myself always look at the reviews (or at least the screenshots of the game) and we're given a choice either to get the game or forget about it.
If you won it, great! Good for you. Maybe you're a future reviewer and wanted to get that game just to review it and leave it or you're an average person who plays for about 5 min and leave it in your library to rot.
Yes, I agree. People who got these games don't deserve these revokes and devs who do that must be called out.
So if I offended any winners who were affected by this, I apologize.
Finally I want to ask a question. Can Steamgifts do anything in this situation just to save these unlucky people?
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As for bundles you gotta keep one thing in mind. Despite Humble most of bundle sites (excluding ones that make only shitty bundles with cheapest games possible - bunbdles like 12 keys for 1$, or 100 keys for 5$ etc) rarely have bundle consisting of only good games or only bad games. It's usually mixed bag - 1,2 or 3 good games and rest shitty ones as a filler (almost all IG bundles are like this for example). So it is common that someone will bot buy a bundle because they want these shitty games for +1 but because there is 1-2 games in bundle they do actually want. But they get X other shovelware games as a bonus, nut as they already got them anyway and paid for them anyway they may decide to activate them anyway. Still doesn't matter if game is shitty or good, someone paid for this game and they are entitled to the product they paid for, but main point being not really a lot of ppl buy these games just for +1, they buy bundle for a good games in it and treat the rest as a bonus.
As for SG doing something about it - we are still waiting, so far knsys updated SGT to adress situation, but I do agree - SG staff should step in as well, cause it's not like GA creators or winners tried to scam anyone, most of them purchased actual bundles and activated their wins - and now they end up with not-activated or not-received marks on their profiles.
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I agree. I've seen many bundles containing shovelware and people want to get rid of it by giving it to someone else who wants it.
While I would suggest people to get far better games, there's no denying that there are people who want to get and (maybe) review shovelware by joining these giveaways (if they get the chance).
Let's hope Steamgifts staff does something about this revoking games issue.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/ZrkuMRV
Also internally we addressed our own checking tools to deal with it. Sorry if I didn't update about that.
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from my comment:
so far knsys updated SGT to adress situation,so I said knsys updated SGT and you linked me comment confirming you contacted knsys about the issue ;p Not really sure if you misread my comment or read it if I blamed staff for not warning knsys, if second - I do not ;p I see SGT as separate from SG. It is good if staff contact knsys, but I do not say staff has to do it. But I haven't seen any update you updated your own tools anywhere, and for most users this is an important msg - SGT is pretty not-important compared to whole website. SG has 1mil users, less than 20k used SGT even once, so important info should not be "we contacted knsys to update SGT", important info should be "we updated mod tools so noone who won this game is gonna be banned for it" - and comment you linked missed this most important data ;p
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Yup. I understand your point.
I mentioned we were discussing it and no one was affected that I know of because we were aware of it early on.
Apologies, if people were worried. My Assumption was that it would follow that we would do something was just that, an assumption and that puts me at fault none of you. In any case, thanks for your patience. Sorry for my mistake.
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wow i was just going to buy 50 copies to give away and one for myself to play at my own leisure </3
so disappointed!
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/570380/Death_Penalty_Beginning/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/570380/discussions/0/2765630416826017814/
[Edit] Apparently all keys are revoked, also from bundles (and thus from Tremorgames too).
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/WzOGkfW
[Edit2] Looking at top reviews it also looks like bought copies from steam directly get revoked, so DO NOT BUY.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeGameFindings/comments/71f8jz/psadeath_penalty_beginning_re_added_to_account/
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