What is keeping someone from making bunch of fake invite-only giveaways and getting their friends to enter, or entering from different accounts?

11 years ago*

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Your account has to be worth at least $100 to join the site if I remember right.

11 years ago
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My friend gave away bit trip runner just to me but made a thing on here to see if he got contributor for it. He did not.

11 years ago
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Why can't I see him as being suspended? :P

But I like how ppl like the OP starts a thread about exploiting giveaways... And everybody is just one click away from checking his profile and giveaways out. I mean, was that the intetion of this thread?

Nearly makes me think someone took control of his account to make him stop entereing giveaways. I mean, how 'smart' can you be. XD

11 years ago
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In fairness, the OP has not technically done anything wrong yet unless I'm missing something shady on his/her profile.

11 years ago
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Add a few winners and then we'll have a problem.

11 years ago
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Technically not, but he/she surely has attracted attention. And since the support on this site is not bound by a legal system (as in, they don't need to follow a lawbook for suspending accounts) it is still funny to see.

The thing that is at least a bit shady, is that the OP had 2 private giveaways going for software products which cost at the moment 'only' 696,75€ in the EU with 25% off when creating this thread.

Edit @ Atomic, geez man, are all your giveaways with so few entries?

11 years ago
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It looks like nobody entered those giveaways. I surmise that he created them and never shared the link with anyone, just to see what happened. Technically I guess that wasn't doing anything wrong, and didn't hurt anyone.

11 years ago
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Yes, if people here tell him that is not how it works, I also would not let anyone in. But what was the intend of those giveaways? I mean, I never created a giveaway of stuff I don't even have 'just to see what happens'.

11 years ago
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Haha. Even my hidden non-group ones still usually get a couple more entries than the OP managed :) Perhaps his puzzles are harder than mine? After all, such epic giveaways as these would surely demand a modern-day equivalent of the quest which had Jason and the Argonauts battling their way through a catalogue of foes and assorted adversities in pursuit of the ultimate prize...

Perhaps that's the true reason these astoundingly generous gifts went uncontested...

11 years ago
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Hm, can we find out the steamgifts code for particular games? Let's say RPG Maker?

11 years ago
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I think you can only find it when there already has been at least one giveaway. At least, I only managed to find those when there have already been giveaways through searching...

Edit: Hmm, looking into the source for creating a giveaway. Doesn't really make sense to me. Painkiller: Black Edition for example has the 'option value' set to 608 when creeating a giveaway.

The code in the url for steamgifts is ru83q though...

Can't really make sense of it... Searched for the follow up games in the option value, 609 is Osmos, but no giveaways to be found, 610 is Burn Zombie Burn, with the url code being YdESQ...

Also, what is the added value of steamgifts codes for particular games? You can yse the search option like I did? Or do you want the screen with the graphs and stuff directly on your screen?

11 years ago
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I believe that the system does check to see if the game is added to the winner's accounts within a week of you marking the gift as received. (After all, it's easy for Steamgifts to check that.) If it hasn't been, the mods get alerted and investigate, and could ban the people involved. At the very least -- even if the system doesn't detect that automatically -- if someone else looks at their profiles and notices, they could be reported, and they'd get banned at that point.

11 years ago
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Revised: what's to stop people from inviting friends who plan to buy said game?

11 years ago
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Hmm, so you find 3 friends who bought X, but didn't sync their steamgifts account yet? Then you run a private giveaway for 3 copies of X, and after they all win they just sync their accounts and presto free contributor value?

Actually that sounds like it would work. :(

11 years ago
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Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, though.

11 years ago
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There's no totally-perfect system, no. Still, that's at least a lot harder to exploit than what Wnd was proposing (which could be used to grind unlimited CV at no cost.) The basic fact is that CV doesn't matter that much until you reach the $1000 range or so; that kind of trick wouldn't do much to get you to that, and if you exploit your way to $1000 via any trick it's going to probably become pretty obvious to anyone who glances at your profile.

(Someone else reported that they didn't get any CV for a private one-person giveaway, though, so it seems there are some minimums somewhere in the system, at least for private giveaways -- probably they don't want to share how they work to avoid encouraging people to exploit them.)

Amusingly, I actually won a giveaway that nobody else entered, once, when someone gave away a game in a totally non-SG-focused group I was a member of -- a tester group for an old HL2 mod which had since switched to other methods of testing, so there weren't very many people in it to begin with. Dunno if they got CV from it or not.

EDIT: Looking back over his giveaways and CV total and doing some quick math, it appears he did not get CV from it (though it's hard to tell because I'm not sure which of his games count as bundle games and which don't.)

11 years ago
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Minimum for getting any CV is a two person giveaway, but plenty of people have tried to make fake ones, and ended up impaled on the claw-end of the banhammer.

Basically only a fool would try value boosting in this way, but even virtual villages like this on have their fair share of idiots.

11 years ago
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Still living up to your tag.

11 years ago
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I don't think that that tag is totally fair! While it's true that I sometimes tend to be on the verbose side when pontificating on a topic that has attracted my interest, the entire concept of writing "too much" is inherently subjective; what one person thinks is "too much", another person might say is "just enough."

Additionally, sometimes a lot of text is needed to convey complicated concepts or in-depth analysis of a situation, especially when I want to feel that I've avoided oversimplifying it -- yes, I could condense my posts into straightforward soundbites, but something would inevitably be lost in the transition, and I don't think that that would be good for me or for the people who (for whatever reason) manage to read this far. Additionally, by writing very long walls of text, I can conceal anything I like deeper within my essay, and I'll know that most people won't actually bother to read enough to encounter it.

For instance, let's talk about Steamgifts and the problem of subjective valuation. This is what fundamentally makes CV so complicated; in an era of Steam sales, bundles, and free giveaways, there isn't really a clear way to subjectively assess the value of a game -- sure, you can look at a game's recommended manufacturer retail price or its baseline Steam price, but come on, obviously DotA 2 is not really valued at the $30 it currently costs for early access on Steam, on account of how easy it is to get a free copy. Similarly, the Crazy Machines games are almost always in one bundle or another, so it's hard to say that they're really valued at their retail price.

In a way, this challenges the entire concept of "value" in a capitalist society, since capitalism theoretically depends on goods and services having a clear worth -- do online or virtual goods really have a set worth? Or are they just worth whatever we're willing to pay? I mean, that's true for anything, of course, but online virtual goods can be copied instantly at essentially no price, meaning that ideally a merchant wants to sell them to everyone who is willing to pay them even a single cent. "Exploits" like these often come down to disagreements over the subjective valuation of virtual goods.

At the same time, I think that it's good for us to try and use some type of valuation (even if it's subjective and unreliable) in order to oh god I have spent way too much time writing for one silly joke. Anyway, my main point is that it's worth trying to prevent exploits despite the unreliable and fundamentally meaningless nature of the system, and also Steamgifts, Steam, and indie bundles all point at a new economic system that fundamentally undermines the nature of exchanges necessary for a capitalist society.

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by Wnd.