Ramadhaan Mubaarak! (1436H/2015AD)

it's basically saying "if you don't believe in Allah/God, you're fucked, so better do it!". this is what i so much dislike about theistic religions. they always work with fear. they don't want to leave you a choice. either join them, or burn in hell for eternity.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." So disbelieved would refer to Christians who followed some corrupted version of the teachings that included multiple deities?

a very interesting and entertaining post (i am not being sarcastic). i am honestly impressed. i didn't think you were capable of this kind of humor about this delicate topic. because i assume you are aware of all the little things you did there. firstly, you try to put atheism in the same box as religions by calling it a belief. which i am sure you know atheists don't like, since they have no belief comparable to that from religious people. quite the opposite, actually.

then you accuse me of throwing scientific logic out of the window. i am not doing that in any way. in fact, the only data we have in order to create a scientific theory about the existence of god is, that we don't have any valid proof for his existence. none at all. everything else is just trying to use common sense. do you know occam's razor? it's a bit like that. if i have to decide which of the two has to be proven in order to be accepted as true, which would i choose:

1. there is an omnipotent being, completely different from everything we know. it never shows himself to us. people claimed to have written down its words, which should be valid for all eternity (yet they are very much influenced by the time they were written at). this being defines itself so that it is impossible to prove its existence. it demands obedience, while by definition cannot be questioned. disobeying or disbelief let people end up in eternal pain and suffering. everything originates from it. the cult revolving around it should spread the word of its existence and convince others to follow it and dedicate their lifes to it.

2. some greedy people perverted old (non-theistic) religions in order to profit from it. they made it, so that their assertions can't be disproved, or even questioned. they implemented a mechanism to urge people to follow them (hell).

the first option is full of things our current knowledge doesn't cover. not even one thing science discovered so far, points to the existence of god. there just is not scientific basis at all. in addition to that, this explanation is quite complicated and many things are surprisingly convenient (like i said in my first post). the second option is just way simpler. everything in it can be explained with the current state of knowledge. so from a scientific standpoint, it is indeed reasonable to choose option one.

that does not mean, that we should stop investigating. science is the everlasting search for knowledge. this also includes concepts that seem to be completely contradictory to science, even if just to falsify it. and if at some point god steps out of heaven and shows himself to the world, saying "hey guys, it is I", then i will gladly admit i was wrong. but i have a feeling, this won't happen. ;)

P.S.: i get the feeling this has to be said: i hope you don't take my postings as insults. what i know from you so far, is not a lot (this is just an internet forum after all), but my impression of you is quite positive. i respect you as a forum and support member. so don't take all this too personally. i just like discussing this topic. i find this one to be on of the most interesting topics, in fact. but it is always hard to discuss about religion with religous people. they often seem to be insulted if one just states another opinion. i essentially attack everything you believe in, one could say. well, i don't see it as an attack. i think it has to be allowed to state all kinds of opinions in this matter. else any real discussion is impossible. i hope you agree and don't feel insulted or anything. if you are - well sorry, i don't know how to be even more careful about all this. in that case, the only way to not insult you would be to not discuss this at all (and i think this would be very wrong). this is just not the kind of topic that can be discussed in a very neutral way. ;)

He didn't believe in a deity, he believed in the state. Sounds pretty atheist to me.

You are very much misinformed, but this isn't the place for such a discussion. You know how to get hold of me on Steam.

Now you know how we Muslims feel when people make sweeping statements about our religion because of what they think they understood from the actions of an individual Muslim. Such thinking defies all logic and common sense, but hat never prevented anyone from doing it.

For the record, not all Atheists are the same, and most of them are neither violent nor fanatical.

The Quran and also the Bible don't have killing non-believers as the main topic. but it is in there. the books tell you to fight (and kill) non-believers. and thanks to a few extremists, this aspect is always in the spotlight, of course. it is the one big thing non-believers have to suffer from - by getting killed by a suicide terrorist and whatnot.

yes, the majority of Islam and Christianity doesn't do any real harm to others. but still, i wonder how someone can follow the "word of god" only partially. i think you can see this in Christianity way more than in Islam. people started to cherry-pick more and more. everything that is not acceptable anymore in a global context, just gets dropped. you can see priests on tv talking about all the things christians believed in in the past, saying how it is just a metaphore. people actually believed in hell. some still do. i am sure this was a major way of getting people into christianity back in the day. join us, or die and burn in hell (quite fitting: Pascal's Wager ). and now some priests call hell a metaphore, because in this modern world it just gets more and more implausible, unbelievable. people stop believing in it? then just drop it, so the rest of the bible still stays plausible. i just can't take a religion serious that adapts to the modern world, while still trying to sell you their book as god's word, as eternal truth. as the basis of their religion. and yet, they adapt and drop what they don't like anymore. and hell is just one example. there is much more (like all the misogynistic parts in both bible and quran, or the slavery stuff...).

Oh man, I've spent a number of years in the desert (in my past), but I never got used to it. One learns to tolerate it, but that's much different than being indifferent to it. Being that hot actually makes me angry! Its like I'm being punished by the Sun.