Are they Eating Dogs?
How is it any different from eating beef, pork or chicken?
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Chickens don't have a lot of empathy. They're just evil.
I'll admit that I feel bad when eating a pig, as they're pretty intelligent. And you know exactly how it's different for most people. Dogs were domesticated over a long time. To a lot of people it's like hearing about their pet getting eaten. It's messed up.
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That's fair. However, people also need to recognize that dogs as a household pet and companion has until very recently been (for the greater part) a western concept. I admit dogs have been domesticated for millennia across the world, but in a lot of places they have been domesticated with a role in mind, such as a guard dog or the like. It isn't fair to assume that people around the world should have the same outrage against the consumption of dog meat.
High school social just popped into my head; I believe this debate would come under cultural relativism
Now before someone bites my head off (it is the internet after all), I realized after typing this comment that I kind of replied to a bunch of other comments further down this thread, rather than specifically your comment. My bad. I do however, stick by my words.
Also, chickens are evil. Totally agree.
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My point wasn't to provoke anyone to feel the way I do about Eastern treatment of dogs and cats, only to explain clearly why we (justifiably) feel that way about them.
I am a dog lover. I don't care too much for cats, so I'm not giving them much thought. When I see a dog being killed, especially for food, it sickens me and I despise the people doing it, no matter their reasons. You might as well be taking my dog and frying her up for dinner (make no mistake, if someone did that I would kill them).
It's a culture shock. It's the worst KIND of culture shock. Something you love is killed and it happens every day and there's nothing you can do about it.
It's human nature to be outraged for that very reason. Just wanted to make that clear, nothing more.
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I see your point, but I can't agree it's justified. You may love dogs, it certainly doesn't mean every society does. Some may consider dogs to be a better delicacy than companion. I personally enjoy the companionship of dogs, but if I ever take a trip east (or more specifically a region where dog meat is offered), I would definitely take the opportunity to try it, even if it is just for the novelty.
We live in a pretty globalized society, it would be a rather boring world if all cultures were homogeneous.
While it may be human nature to be outraged, it is also within human capacity to acknowledge if not accept alternative views and beliefs.
I urge you to read culture shock on Wikipedia, specifically the four phases.
All I'm saying is people should learn to adapt and reserve judgment on the actions of other people, rather than denounce and despise them for it.
PS: I am trying to provoke you to feel the way I do about this, and I apologize for that. :P
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If there is one thing you should know about me it is that you cannot change how I feel.
In fact that is something you may find with a lot of people.
If you kill dogs and eat them, I will not like you. Nothing will ever change that. I've made my point, there's nothing more for me here.
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That's a fringe case of my argument, and you know it. With that said:
No, I wouldn't. Humans have a level of sentience and individuality of being, that dogs - as lovable as they may be - don't.
I certainly don't hate the tribes for it, as I don't know the history and reasons behind it, but I cannot accept it personally.
... to acknowledge if not accept alternative views and beliefs
Acknowledgement does not require acceptance. If you recognize the differences of another culture, it does not mean you have to adopt it yourself.
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You do realize that some see eating a pig as being the same as your view on eating a dog and the same can be said of the cow.Yet you despise those who will eat a dog no matter the reason.How do you think those people who see a cow as sacred feels about you eating one?
Though i have a different view on it i am not against those who do eat them not saying it is my thing but who am i to judge someone who eats a dog vs someone who thinks me eating a cow is just as bad.I shall not pass judgement unless i shall be judged myself.All i am asking is how you can judge someone like that and despise them just because they do not have the same views as you?
It's human nature to be outraged for that very reason. Just wanted to make that clear, nothing more.
I just want to make this clear, your reason for being outraged is not human nature it is your belief nothing more.
Human Nature
the general psychological characteristics, feelings, and behavioral traits of humankind, regarded as shared by all humans.
I am pretty sure not all humans share this same feeling of eating a dog is wrong.Just the same as not everyone sees a pig or a cow or whatever as being sacred and there for choose to eat it or not based on that belief.
I do get why you feel that way though because of the love you have for those animals but i do think imo that to despise someone because of there life choices that you do not agree upon is not maybe the best way to go about it.
That being said i am not here to tell you that you are wrong for feeling that way and that it is alright to do so.I am just sharing how i feel about it the same as you did and i hope this does not come off as anything more then me sharing my view on it just as you did the same.
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Your post is the definition of a TL;DR post.
Definitely too long for someone who has some sort of venom attached to it. My point here was not to insult others, only address my views and the views of those who find eating dogs and cats to be (as colloquially as I can put it) fucked up.
I will despise whomever I please. It is impossible for me to not attribute my love for dogs to those who eat them, especially when I see imagery of those people stringing them up like a god damned ham. I do not have a pet pig. Rarely does anyone else in the west.
If you don't like my views, congratu-fucking-lations I don't give two shits.
Your half-veiled attempt at not being trying to offend me has been noted and ignored.
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I had a very long response typed out, but I don't want you to feel like I'm judging you, so I'll keep this short with a few points.
1) I do not believe eating one food type is healthy for an omnivore species (we as humans eat both meat and plants).
2) This is not an issue or morality, but emotional empathy towards creatures. A specific type of creature, as well. Dogs and Cats.
3) You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine; however, like I cannot make the Chinese stop eating Dogs, you cannot make the world stop eating any animal. (I assume this was your point, in which case I feel for you, I really do.)
The world is a dark and twisted place. I never wanted my brother to tell me about this shit. I hate hearing about dogs suffering. (Or even dying without suffering just to be a meal.)
EDIT: Just going to put this here for the record since the post was deleted by OP. Whether or not you have the opportunity to read it, Rahul.
1) My point was not about shortage, it is about having a balanced diet. Eating one type of food simply isn't healthy. Try eating just fish for the rest of your life. You will develop health problems. That's even though fish oil is incredibly health for humans.
2) Someone commented that the process is usually painless for the dogs. It doesn't matter to me, though, it's sickening. I've been eating meat since I was a child, so I'm able to turn off empathy for most animals. It helps when I see a deer eating a bird or run off on its child so it can survive. You get a perspective on the world, no matter how fucked up. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but this is just how the world works. We can fight it all we want, but misery surrounds us. The only difference is how close I've gotten with all of my dogs. It lets me pretty much fall in love with any dog I see. This is probably the only animal I can never detach myself from. It's a personal issue.
If we could live in a world without killing, that would be fantastic, but humans (and all animals, really) are just awful. We're built to survive and that usually comes off the backs of other animals.
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I wasent really trying to convince anyone to stop eating meat. Since like I said.. it rarely works that way.
What I was trying to show was that once you think about it, there really isnt that much of a difference between one animal and the next. Unfortunately you just have to work on your mindset, because these things are gonna occur regardless of how much you or me find it disgusting.
As for your points:
1) There is plenty of research to point out that if the whole world was to go vegetarian, there would be enough food to feed everyone. Raising animals just so you can butcher them later on is very wasteful of resources. Not to mention that there are a lot of diseases associated with eating meat. Its simply not healthy.
2) This is something I have always struggled with. For me, my empathy isn't turned off for specific animals. For me all animals deserve to live and not be tortured for food. More often than not, killing the animals isn't a painless process.. its extremely traumatic to even watch it happen.. let along how the poor animals must feel.
3) Agreed.
For me, I never even cared about the benefits to us for eating meat. Even if there were any benefits, like making people who eat meat stronger it really wouldn't make any difference to me. If those benefits are centered around killing, then it simply not an option in my book. I mean, imagine if you could hear people touting about the benefits of eating human meat, and how it scientifically makes you 100% stronger or something like that. Even then I doubt you would ever do it because unless you have a Cluster B personality disorder, you empathy would not allow you to do it. Its similar for vegetarians. Our empathy simply does not allow us to play a part in this. I have seen how animals are treated before their are killed for food, and I honestly wouldn't wish that fate upon my worst enemy.
Once again, I'm not really trying to convince anyone to change their diet. Just trying to explain my point of view.
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Yes, although I haven't had any dog stew myself for a few years, and never cat.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33283694
I don't understand why you think they would have stopped doing it.
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One day, my mother announced we were going shopping - and when we returned a few hours later Doggie was no more. He had been strung up by the legs in our communal yard, and was soon turned into a stew, complete with herbs and hard-boiled eggs.
That must have been a horrible experience for her, especially given she was ~4 years old at the time.
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So was it for me when we cooked my duckie when I was little or for one of the neighbourhood kids when his Easter rabbit ended up as a stew a few months later. Then you grow up and accept that we eat animals, or at least most people do. One wouldn't eat their own beloved pet, true. That doesn't mean that species won't be used as food. For many of us in the West, it seems gross to eat a dog. For many Indian, it is stomach.churning to think that we eat beef in millions of hamburgers daily. For a Jew or Muslim, it is vomit-inducing to think about a good slice of bacon for breakfast. Just because it's a cultural thing, humans won't stop suddenly being omnivores.
Or, to add even something, as sort of an anecdote: a few years back there was a MASSIVE scandal in France and some Western European countries how horse meat ended up in some products. Here, we cannot understand the fuss. Horse sausages were the most common thing in butchers up until the late 80s and some still sell them, and they taste quite good, albeit a little… don't know the English word for that. And we are still part of the same EU.
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So that is what is in What A Burger
I knew there was some mystery meat in there some place
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About the horse meat, I remember that happening with Ikea's meatballs in Sweden. I always thought they were pissed off about the horse meat not being in the label and not even expected in the product, thus leading to possible contaminations in the manufacturing process and such, not about the meat being horse's.
As far as I know, stigma against horse and rabbit meat is stronger in North America.
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Really? Rabbit? One of my grandfathers breeded rabbits to sell for their meat. Although I never liked it, I often had rabbit stew when visiting served as "chicken" (and it actually tastes a lot like chicken, even if you know that you are eating rabbit). The only problem was that rabbits may breed like… well, rabbits, but an awful lot of the body goes to waste, so it's not really profitable.
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Funny thing is, here where I live you buy "smoked meat" which used to be almost exclusively made from horse (muscle) for tens of years until the past couple of years they started making it from cow too to make it cheaper. The most popular one is still the horse-variant tho. But when the Ikea story came to light even here there was outrage. I suspect however it's more about the not knowing than the fact that it was (or contained, like a number of ready made Lasagne) horsemeat.
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"a few years back there was a MASSIVE scandal in France and some Western European countries how horse meat ended up in some products."
I remember that. Of course, large part of the scandal was that the horse meat was actually sold as beef.
Combine that with the notion that horses are some sort of "noble animal" which makes people dislike the idea of eating horse knowingly. We'll just conveniently ignore the fact that we\re happy to turn horse carcasses into gelatin, and gelatin into candy and deserts though ...
So because someone up the supply chain is basically a lying bastard, you end up doing unknowningly what you'd never do if you were well-informed. Queue one shitstorm.
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I only said her experience of seeing her pet strung up and then later eaten must have been horrible. I didn't touch up on the subject of eating dogs or other species in general, so I don't see why did you feel the need to lecture me.
The fact that people eat beef is not stomach churning for Indians, nor is it vomit-inducing for a muslim to think about bacon and other pig products. They don't think beef or pork is disgusting, they don't eat it because it's forbidden by their religion. Hinduism is against killing cows and Islam against eating pigs. Simple as that.
I am well aware of the horse-meat scandal, I have seen it in the news back then. The main reason why it was such a huge deal was not because it was horse-meat, but because it was horse-meat labeled as beef, which is fraud in a way, and also because people were worried the meat could be contaminated.
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I agree that it's horrible, but I also wonder about her parents. The author seems to have little empathy for her parents.
My parents, now utterly embarrassed about having allowed my pet to be cooked, generally avoid the topic entirely.
She was born about a decade after the end of the Cultural Revolution. Literally tens of millions of people died of starvation during this time, so I can at least understand why her parents would choose to kill the dog, even if I don't agree with it.
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The whole Rantanplan comic book stories (and not the short strips) are hilarious. Have you read any?
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Yes, but I still don't get it. I can find Odie from Garfield funny, because he is stupid but acts funny. I even love Avarell, becuse he is dumb as well, but does funny things. Rantanplan is stupid, thinks stupid thoughts, and is supposed to be funny because he doesn't contribute anything to the story ever apart from stating the fact that he is dumb. I think the only time in the entire main series where he had some actual role was when he was lying as usual and someone tripped over him. I absolutely love the Lucky Luke series, but I'm always so glad when I bump into a Rantanplan-less episode… I honestly feel about Rantanplan as is the series is trying to make fun of a character because he is mentally handicapped and is trying to tell me that being mentally handicapped in itself should be something to laugh at. And it's just… wrong.
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It’s nice that you explained your opinion so thoroughly, so I can share my thoughts more specifically about it.
I love the whole Lucky Luke “universe”, because everything / everyone plays a certain role that is contributing to the whole “drama” - you can replace with “comedy” unquoted here if you like. As such “universe”, it doesn’t always matter whenever a character is dumb, smart etc, but how this is building up to the whole joke. This is not a short comic strip with catchphrases (actually there are some, but I don’t like these) but a story that climax thanks to every role contributing to a different - but necessary - extent to this story. Either if someone likes Rantaplan or not, I think that he always contributes to build up the “general joke”. And that’s not just important, but vital to a great series!
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In China, not much. They treat all animals poorly pretty much. But it's STEALING PEOPLE'S dogs, cats, guinea pigs and other pets for black market meat 'festival'.. yeah, that's totally humane huh.
Watch people. Watch. http://www.stopdogmeat.com/
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Man, there's nothing inherently civilized in not eating (or in eating) cats and dogs. Different societies eat different animals, and proclaim others taboo.
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Kinda, there is not a law that forbids eating cats in Italy. What is prohibited is the import of said meat.
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Heard it wrong then. I remember that is was strange reading about it at first though. The fact that they eat cat stew, I mean. Although I do find it a bit icky that people eat dogs, at least I understand that as they are muscular animals, lot of meat. But cats are usually sleek, so not really much to feed on. But they say they taste a lot like rabbit (which tastes a lot like chicken…).
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I remember stories from my gramps about the world wars, there was so much poverty and misery that people actually resorted to eat cats and dogs (and probably rats), but it got better after the economic boom in the 60'-70'.
The cat stew thing is actually a blurt of a guest in a cooking show, he wanted to give advices for cooking cats, he got a lot of shit for that. I didn't know it made news outside of Italy.
Edit: oh, it's actually on wikipedia lol
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Oh, the talk about Italians serving cats as rabbit stew, especially in Venice, is a thing that has been around for ages. And I mean it literally, as in centuries. There is even a joke about why you never see stray cats within blocks around a venetian restaurant. :) And then there is of course the old rumour about using cat entrails as musical instrument strings (even though to my knowledge that is false as they use cow or sheep entrails).
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I heard that too, specifically bows for violins. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had one actually made, especially with the Paganini craze, pacts with the devil and esoteric mumbo jumbo going around at that time.
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I went to italy and didnt had the oportunity to eat cat, now seems like a waste of a trip.
I wonder how well it compares to rabbit
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Read the comment that I wrote below too, but I would also like to say that if you were terribly hungry, you would probably end up eating cats and dogs too. :/ Never say never, like Bieber says. :B :B :B
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You can also domesticate chickens and say the same thing, but yet, everyone eats them.
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http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9905E5DF1230E733A25755C0A9659C946397D6cf6
"Germany's dog meat market", The New York Times, 1907.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B04E4D9133EE033A25750C2A9609C946697D6CF
until early 20th century, germany and american also eat dog food.
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Am I supposed to decide if they should follow their traditions :C ?
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It may seem weird to you, but for them it's probably as normal as eating pork or beef. Different cultures, that's all there is to it.
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It's compulsory by the law to sedate animals before killing them. And it's profitable for them too, because if they won't sedate them, they'll get stressed, they'll lose weight, and they'll have worse taste.
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Are you from the US? Because by law it's the same here, you're supposed to stun them before slaughtering animals, but it doesn't necessarily work every time. And animals know when they're getting led to slaughter.
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No, I'm Greek. It's the same law everywhere. But not everyone follows it. They won't do it in farms, for example. The animals need to be sedated with carbon dioxide or get electrocuted in the neck, before cutting their neck.
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Not in China. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-22/dog-cruelty-stolen-pets-tourists-fuelling-growth-in-meat/7088380 Watch this before you start deciding how ethical it is.
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They're burnt alive, strung up, etc.? Oh, come on, I can hardly believe that. Why would they torture them? They love torturing them? Because there are much simpler ways to kill them. A stressed animal is not a profitable animal when it comes to the slaughter. It reminds me of videos I've seen of people with hammers breaking a pig's skull. And then what would they do with it meat? Play a puzzle? :P I understand that there are stupid people out there that love torturing animals, but it would be weird if they would want to torture it and then sell it afterwards. But I believe the part about diseases and illegal trade of dog meat.
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I love my dog so I don't think I could eat a dog or a cat, but I agree. If you eat meat, you can't have it both ways. Endangered animals is another thing though. That is fucked up.
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Why not eat humans then? We are surely not endangered.
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prion disease. cannibalism. doesn't stop people though: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149879/Japanese-man-22-cooks-genitals-serves-paying-dinner-party-guests.html
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Probably something to do with human rights, or humans being more intelligent life forms than other animals, or that humans usually have families so it's not like you could just find some free for grabs.
In a scenario where human meat would be legit and no reason to spare the life, for example: a serial killer caught in a country with capital punishment, sentenced to death, no family or friends either who may want to bury him.... Sure, I'd take a bite. Why let it waste.
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We are very closely related, genetically speaking. Diseases can be transferred easily.
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Pretty much this.
India has a law(?) about not eating cows (that or it's very frowned upon? idk).
Pigs in some places are pets.
While I would never eat a dog or cat, I understand how other places eat them since it's just a different culture.
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Not even cultural thing to me... I just eat what I can easily get from a shop, and it just happens to be cow and pig... I think people should give less shits about culture, and think with their own heads (or taste buds) what's edible and what's not.
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when you have to feed 1 Billion People you can't be too picky about what to feed them with
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When you have to feed 1 Billion People with limited resources it is the best plan to feed them meat.
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Not really. You should read about it.
Meat production wastes precious resources and contaminates a lot.
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i don't think that it's cheaper and less resource-intensive to hold dogs and cats as pets
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You were talking about food. It is far cheaper and less resource-intensive to produce non-meat food. So you better be "picky" about it and "pick" food that does not require that much of CO2, water, and minerals as meat does.
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It's a fact, not a rumour. People eat all kinds of animals. I often eat kangaroo and crocodile.
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Here in MX we have some croc and ostrich farms, any endangered species is forbidden, in some of the coast places they steal turtles eggs or made turtle's blood soup, forbidden by law, and our coasts are plenty of chinese and japanese illegal fishery, many work few economical resources
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Crocodiles are farmed here in Australia for meat/skin etc.
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Yep, they do. In a lot of countries, they eat cats, dogs, horses, insects, snakes, crocodiles, etc. Thing is, in other countries, it looks weird to them that we eat cows, pigs, etc. So, if eating dogs is weird to you, eating cows is weird to some other country and so on. As long as they sedate the animals before killing them, it sounds totally legal to me. I would never eat a cat or a dog though. :P
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Well, I've never eaten a kangaroo. Never seen kangaroo meat here. o.O
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It's... different. Kinda like lamb with a beefy texture if I remember correctly (it's been a few years, but I remember enjoying it). Ostrich is nice but a bit rich and stinks up the kitchen while you cook it, so it's not quite my favorite; 'roo isn't so bad :D
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I like ostrich meat. It has low fat and an awesome taste. I've eaten it very rarely. If kangaroo is like a lamb and a beef, then I wouldn't like it. XD
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I don't eat curry. Argh, I'm very picky with my food. :P And pineapple is a fruit (an awesome one) and I never eat my fruits in the same plate with my food. xD
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Ehm, you know what I mean. :B I eat my salad along with my food and THEN I eat my fruits. :P
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You're missing out then... Gammon with a pineapple ring, pork-&-apple sausages, turkey or chicken with redcurrants, duck with either lemon or orange (not just the sauce, I'm talking chunks of lemon or orange)... Certain fruits and meat combinations really do make for a decent meal, surprisingly so in some cases. However, there's no excuse for whole/chunks of tomatos if you ask me (hate 'em with a vengeance).
As for curry in general; I'm not a massive fan of extemely spicy-hot foods myself (so jalfrezi or chilli's are not ereally my thing), so generally go with a korma or (if I'm feeling particularly adventurous) a tika masala, and can kinda relate :D
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I've eaten duck in a Japanese restaurant and I didn't really like it. Maybe it was because of their sauce, I don't know. I don't like putting spices and things like that in food. :P I'm always exaggerating though when putting oregano, capers, and, in older times, lemon juice. I love oregano and I love capers. They're in most of the foods I eat. :P I eat raw tomatoes in my salad, never cooked with my food. But raw tomatoes can be put as a "decoration" in food and they are tasty.
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Ostrich meat is very good, yes. We used to have some from local ostrich farms around here (I live in Southern Portugal), but, alas, no longer.
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I think we have an ostrich farm in Greece. I remember hearing about it.
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We had multiple, for a time, and every restaurant/supermarket in the area would have some meat, but they all went under (though one of them still keeps a few individuals, but not for eating).
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I hope this does not create xenophobia in the answers.
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You can surely see speciesism in some people justifying their acts.
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I dunno about the dogs but I'm pretty sure pussy is eaten everywhere, not only in China. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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I though so too. I'm not too fond of rabbit meat myself, but in my region (one of the last with high densities of Iberian rabbit) they're one of the staples.
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Yeah, I don't like rabbit too. :P But I've heard they eat it everywhere.
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Used to be a staple part of my diet as a kid; the bloke across the road used to hunt 'em and we'd generally end up with a couple most weeks. Hares too on occasion.
Can't live exclusively on rabbit though - it's missing some fairly important vitamin or something like that iirc...
If you want weird though... used to get hedgehog flavoured crisps down the local pub...
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Some people don't eat cats and dogs, some people don't eat cows, and anothers don't eat pigs... but some people do it...
Is cultural, maybe the important things is if this animals are sacrificed in "humanitarian" way and if the process of convert these in food is clean and safe for the diners...
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As an aside, where I lived a few years ago, I used to get meat at the market all the time. I was warned by a friend who worked there not to buy rabbit, because, once it's skinned, you can't tell a rabbit from a cat.
second aside: from having eaten a lot of exotic meats, I believe the cuter it looks, the better it tastes
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Hum... that image gives the idea that EVERYTHING eats humans...
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Warning, has pictures of dog meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat
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http://www.voanews.com/content/animal-rights-activists-target-china-dog-meat-festival/3283551.html
Go to Bing, select News, enter "china eating cats and dogs".
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