OP, why do you even care about others' contributor value? It does not decrease your chance to win, so what is the problem?
As I can see, you have leeched a fair share of games (104 won with 21 contributed), so you should not be crying about other convenient uses of the system
I once had a problem with other people abusing the system, but I got over it because it does not affect my life in any way
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If anything, a greater number of games in the system spreads everyone's points across a greater number of games. This should serve to increase your odds of winning a particular title, rather than decrease, unless you're only entering high-value contributor-only giveaways, counting on your own contributor value to give you an edge in giveaways, which I consider contrary to the spirit of gifting.
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You look at gifting as though it cannot be gifting if it comes with perks, sorry but I don't see it that way.
No, people shouldn't need an incentive to gift but some do and contributor value is that incentive. That is why CG posts giveaways at various different levels to allow people who give more, higher chances.
If a site administrator can see that incentives work and feels it's correct to reward those who give, surely it is in the spirit of the site.
I am not saying you should give to get, but you most certainly should not disregard the perks you do receive for doing something you want to do.
The bottom line is the more people who enter a giveaway, the less chance you have at winning, correct? So by people earning a lot of value from $1 games they can enter higher giveaways that were created for those who give to the community, not exploit it.
Also, i don't think I can help it if the game I want only seems to be in $200+ min value giveaways. I don't think i should have to avoid them because using my value to enter a giveaway is 'contrary to the spirit of gifting'.
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Your points are valid, certainly. But since some people see contributor value as an incentive to gift, it is in their best interests to get the most for their money (or time).
Gift what you feel like gifting, and purchase what you want outright. Just remember that Fortix must be won, you cannot buy it for yourself. ;)
Speaking of inside-jokes like Fortix (not a put-down, Fortix is great), I'd like to see a list of every game ever given on SG, along with the number of copies of each title that has been given. We may see some interesting trends that could change the way we choose gifts.
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Those stats would most definitely be interesting to look at, if only out of curiosity.
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Excuse me, but I don't see the problem with doing what I do (which I have already stated in this thread numerous times) - giving away as much as you can afford to at the moment, quite literally (my life's not going exactly peachy at the moment), and having the luck to win a lot off many different users (hence, I'm not winning 100+ wins off one guy or community, but many smaller groups of people).
Also, the issue was people who do giveaways purely to farm contrib. stat. I could have taken the 180 or so euros I spent on giveaways so far, and have bought lots of bundles, and a few non bundle list but extremely cheap games, and gotten closer to 1000 contributor value, too. But I do giveaways because I want to always share what I have, even if I have little.
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Tell me how. Because as I see it now, I see 50% of entries on 1k+ giveaways being of this type of user, if not more. I fail to see how they are getting disciplined for their actions, rather being rewarded for smart tricks and being able to keep tabs on the cheapest sales around.
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I don't mean to sound dickish or pushy btw, sorry if I did, but you and Kait both posting encouraging posts here makes me antsy and hopeful, but also doubtful due to vagueness (specially in Kait's case).
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OOOKKKKKKKK DAMNIT :P
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I think you should change your user name to Stalin.
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Yes, lets purge all the users who have given away tons of bundle games...
Do you know how many members have contributed nothing? I'd rather someone spamming Crazy Machines giveaways than contributing no games at all.
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There's no nice way to put this. Your post is blatantly unwarranted.
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Well, let's start from the beginning. Contribution value is so useless.
Those 1k or 2k contribution value required giveaways for games that cost less than 10$. Seriously? anyone who has given 2k dollars worth games here doesn't own that ones?
I tell you that, 90% of the people with high contribution value have used "exploits" and fails to rise it up. Like the recent one in amazon.
I don't give a shit for contribution value, for me the only purpose is to differenciate among the people who have actually given NOTHING (so at leas 50$) and the people who give stuff. That DOESN'T mean they have payed for it.
Summing up, contribution value is useless.
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Let me get this straight, you're complaining about contributor value because users can set a high entry value for a non expensive game that entrants can already afford? You can't complain about someone's giveaway because you can't enter. It's their giveaway and they can set whatever value they want. Contributor value is most certainly not flawed in that regard.
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There are easy as hell ways to differentiate. Using your brain when looking at someone's given away games is key.
When someone has giveaways for 5 - 20 times all the games off a bundle, then a few non bundle-marked games, it's pretty damn clear what's going on, doesn't take Columbo.
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yeah - ooooo I really want this game, Ima gonna enter that giveaway, oh wait, damn looks like the person that made it got a bunch of copies for practically nothing - well I ain't entering now nosireebob I'll go find me a legitimate giveaway for that game
let me know how that works out too
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By now you're not even thinking about what I say and just shitposting replies to me, so I'll just stop replying to you, and let you read my replies to your posts, all of which are rock solid, and undeniable.
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of course they are, and theoretically all of them work. But do you really thing SG mods would check ONE BY ONE all those contributors? I'm afraid they have better things to do. Since then... it's still useless, cause everything is automatized. If you reach X$ dollars contribution you are in, no matter how you managed it.
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The flaw is in the system itself imo. First it was used to separate leecher (no games given but still able to enter giveaways) (0.01$) and contributor, but with the second step things got complicated. Now the contributors themselves got separated into two classes. The bundle-only class (≤30.00$) and the others (≥30.01$).
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I don't see what's wrong with this.. Someone is spending a week trying to farm a game for someone else. Instead of going to work and making money to buy games they are just loading videos and making very little each time. Games are still been given away, people will be entering them, someone will like they game the got and who knows they might pass something on as well.
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Not thinking broadly enough. It's not about that - it's about people doing all this farming (whether from free games they get off TG or any other way) purposely trying to find ways to exploit the system, getting rewarded.
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But in actuality... it doesn't matter. People could buy games with their wallet for the 'wrong reasons', but it still puts giveaways up on the site, amirite?
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I repeat. "people purposely trying to find ways to exploit the system, getting rewarded." That's a problem. Or would you say not?
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What reward do they get? I don't see "Contributor Value" as a reward--I can't walk in to a Home Depot and spend contributor value, but if I shut down my computer every night instead of running the video(s) you mention in your main post (I have no idea how it works, but I'm assuming a computer must be on/involved) then the money spent on electricity and computer hardware (which now has a slightly shorter life span due to depreciation and use of the asset) is what is lost in exchange for a potential opportunity somewhere in the future.
A contributed game is a contributed game, and someone pays for it somewhere--be it "Tremor Games" (whoever that is), someone I steal a game from or me shelling out cash/credit on a website, if the key isn't exploited then the system isn't exploited--a game given is a game received, therefore I see no "exploiting" involved.
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Yawn. Read more of the thread. Your point has been offered many, many times, and been replied to, by me as well as others, just as many times. What you're saying has nothing to do with what's being discussed, or complained about.
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solid point about the so-called "reward"
The logic behind the gripe about all of this is completely failed all the way around.
Somebody's reward for spending $100 or $200 on games they GIVE AWAY! is a 1 in whatever chance of maybe winning a $40 or $60 (and more likely it's a $20) game..? If somebody is using that strategy as it's been called, the joke is on them.
Bottom line for me and I'm done with this thread (put my 2 cents in way too much on it today) is this:
ANYBODY that gives away $500 worth of games, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR "INTENT" FOR DOING IT IS, deserves thanks and respect - NOT to be called a piece of shit.
~OUT
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Fine, so, tell me, do you think farmers that spent those 500 bucks on bundles and a handful of non-bundle games, would give those same 500 bucks' worth of games out were there no contribution system in place? No. Which would be their right, obviously, and I really wouldn't care much either way, but the point remains - these are selfish, exploitative people, that have no business being on a site about GIFTING.
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I have to say, I do agree with you Ansatsunin. Contributor farming is pathetic and it undermines everything that's good on this site. When I first joined Steamgifts, the very idea of someone giving away any game to a stranger struck me as being an amazing act of generosity. It didn't even matter what game, I was just amazed. In many ways I still believe this, or at least still want to believe this. But seeing the implementation of the bundle system and contributor value have since changed my views of giving games. It's become a system that provides the selfish option to pay little and gain big, without consideration of the gifts being given. Unfortunately, in order to combat these farmers, you need to punish them for giving away too many games. Just reading that sounds ridiculous, which is most likely why support won't be able to do much. I hope a method does get discovered though, something needs to be done.
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Agreed. Although I think the only thing that can be done is getting rid of the contributor thing altogether. Also, I think this is all leading towards people doing simply what I, and many others already do - solely make group giveaways.
Hey, I thought of an idea.. I think I will make a "real contributors" group soon.. And only invite the people that are really contributing to the site, hopefully get as many people as possible in. Then, anyone in there can make contrib. giveaways as much as they want, knowing the winner won't be some farmer.
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Also - I am curious what you think about my replies to jatan11, about where this might all lead to.
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Contributor giveaways were introduced for the specific purpose of making people give away more games. To think that this won't make people try to increase their contribution value for the least amount of spending is naive. (And I won't even say what I think of people who end their sentences with "period".)
The main side-effect of contributor giveaway is the numerous threads posted about contributor value. I'd love it if contributor giveaways were removed if only to get rid this forum of these stupid threads.
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Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing contributor values/giveaways removed myself. It leads to so many headaches over which games are worth what, what should be a bundle key and what should just be a sale, people trying to exploit solely to win more instead of giving for the fun of it, etc. I could go on and on. :/
I wouldn't mind losing the giveaways with better odds I've been a part of just to see people calm down and be happy about gifts and the spirit of giving.
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^somuchfuckingthis
This place is / was supposed to be about warm vibes, some goddamn positivity. Not worries about exploitative attitudes.
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NOOOOO!!!
The contributor value thing isn't perfect, but it does a pretty decent job of filtering out the scammers and leechers.
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No it doesn't, not at all, not one bit whatsoever. Pff.
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I don't think that removal of contribution giveaways will turn SG into rainbow land where everything is all about sunshine and jolly good feelings. Personally I wager that people will start to argue about feature X instead where X is anything that prevents them winning a new AAA game per week.
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I agree that SG will not turn into rainbow land, because the same people will remain on the forum, and I'm sure they'll find other things to take issue with.
Still, the contribution issue has added a lot to the negative posts on the forum since it's been introduced, so I think that that the total level of negativity will drop.
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^ That's more or less what I meant. It won't stop everything. It's the internet, and a gaming forum at that. The only way to stop all bitching would be to duct tape absolutely everyone's virtual mouths shut. But the contributor thing would one less topic to hear complaints about.
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Also, I said "period" as an end to my arguments that there is no real counter to - or would you say there is a counter to saying that people who do 20x Crazy Machines giveaways, then a few non bundle-marked giveaways so as to make them total 80% of their total value, are doing so entirely, purely to farm contrib. value, i.e. selfish gain?
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Cg has stated that number of giveaways rose rapidly after the introduction of contribution system. I see contribution system having three major reasons for it and being incentive is one of them.
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You think that "rewarding givers" is a good thing? It makes the site pay to win, and that would result in people behaving that way. There were ways to rewards high contributors and forum participants before, via private giveaways and groups.
As for "period", it marks you as closed minded. You posted to get pats on the back and have people say how correct you are, and you're not going to listen to anyone who has a different opinion. Your title doesn't even make sense. You coined a term, said what it meant, and then slapped "period" at the end as if to say that the tautology has any meaning.
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I didn't say anything about what I think about the whole concept of contributor giveaways in general, thanks for putting words in my mouth though. My actual stance on it is this: even a basic course in ethics will tell you it is ALWAYS a bad idea to tangibly reward desired, positive character traits, in any community or society, and will always lead to degradation of said traits, as well as the society / community's cohesion and harmony as a whole.
I am simply commenting on the way things are going now, and what the trend in giveaways of certain users says about them, and why I think it's wrong that they should be rewarded for nothing more than purely selfish trickery to gain max profits.
I posted because the issue pisses me off, and seeing lots of nonsense threads about it with failed argumentation made me go "ok, enough crap, time to post an actually well thought out and well argued thread", when I came across that group's announcement. Nothing to do with back-pats, or e-peenage, as you so deftly accuse me of.
The thread title makes enough sense - it references a practise through a title which has been used lots before, in many established arguments, so is an already known term. Thus, I am not "coining" anything new. But people have been trying to argue that farming isn't objectionable (with stinted and flawed arguments) a lot before, so I figured I'd say it like it is - farming is nothing more than a way to exploit the system, with nothing more than selfish intent. And yeah, that warrants a "period". Unless you can somehow actually form a valid counterargument to what I keep saying, instead of ignoring my point - rather putting words in my mouth, then discrediting those words. Nice trick.
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so if you work for one day, you can buy a game and give it away = good.
You can work for a week, get a game and give it away here = bad
i dont see the problem? Time is time, if you're paid money for your invested time to buy games or paid directly in games, its still the same to me.
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Ban developer giveaways giving value, then many leechers will lose their value...serious, there are many people begging for keys and some think it is their work and some think they are generous cause they give away free keys...
Every game that gets a discount above 75%(so starting with 75,01% and voucher excluded) on any site gets on the bundlelist.
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Was your first paragraph some sort inkling towards a certain user known for giving a load of Gala keys? Just curious...
As for you suggestion, does it include non-US stores? Not only it sounds difficult to keep track of, but it could very well mean that 99% of Steam games to be considered bundled.
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"Every game that gets a discount above 75%(so starting with 75,01% and voucher excluded) on any site gets on the bundlelist."
You can get most games from Russia for cheap. How are you incorporating regional pricing into this scheme? How about price mistakes? Or in-store sales? Or buying a key from one of those illegitimate key sites? You're saying that all Bethesda games, Borderlands 2, etc should all be on the bundle list? There's just no way to compile an effective list here.
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total bullshit - look, giving a game away is still giving a game away. Oh but if I give away a game that I didn't pay full price for, I'm somehow a piece of crap..? Even the idiotic method you posted, someone doing that is getting coins to buy games, they could just buy the games they want and keep them instead of giving them away. Sure, there are extremes and some people have better resources / more time to "exploit" the system so it highlights the mechanics behind how this works, but guess what - most of the giveaways currently running are games that the creator obtained for a lower price than its Steam value.
I've been here a little over a year - and EVERY time a game, especially a good or popular game goes on sale on Steam or Amazon or any-f'ing-where else there is a surge of giveaways for it here. Those sorry, no-good scumbags that are buying that game for 75% off and then GIVING IT AWAY! and getting full contributor value, oh those people are vile!
I'm so damn sorry that every giveaway I've put up was for a game I purchased on sale (sometimes, a really really good sale too - I got FOUR PayDay The Heist for like a buck apiece - I'm sick I'm so very ashamed) I will from now on only give away games that I purchase at full price, no screw that - to make amends I will seek out the highest price I can and try to pay MORE than the Steam value so my contributor level is less than what I spend.
WHO THE HELL CARES - people give games away for all kinds of reasons - some it's just a means to torture others with mind bruising puzzles - some to share their own creativity in one way or another - some try to get maximum contributor value for minimum investment (evil bastards) - some even just give away games because they are simply good-spirited people and want to share something to be part of a "community" or just to make somebody's day - and some are giving away junk in the hopes of winning treasure.
You want just the warm-and-fuzzy giveaways..? Guess what - there'll be about 2 pages of giveaways instead of 15.
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You really need to learn to read better, and think critically. I wasn't bitching about giving away games you bought for less than the value you get for them. I wasn't even bitching about giving away bundle games.
I was bitching, as I have said maaaaaaaaany tims in this thread, about people who sit behind their PC (and try to follow me here, I know it's hard) thinking of ways to gain as much contrib. value as possible, plotting ways to do so while spending as little as possible. People who buy 5x a bundle, then one game not marked as a bundle game, purely to gain two or three hundred bucks' worth of contrib. value by spending maybe 10 or 15 bucks. There is a far larger disparity between actual money spent and height of contrib. value gained when talking about such purposeful farming of value, and people simply buying games on sale to give away and their value gained. Aside from that, again, the complaint is about intent, not result.
Also, had you actually read what I posted properly, you'd have seen the reply to your post already. Let me copypasta for you, save you some trouble:
"And no, not every giveaway has to be for 100% altruistic, selfless reasons. There's a wide range of nuances between trying to be the next messiah in terms of altruistic intent, and being a grubby bottom-feeder who only ever cares for persona numero uno. But regardless of intended motivation in making giveaways, you can be sure this contrib. boosting crap is entirely selfish, and purely an attempt to shamelessly exploit and trick the system, nothing more."
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oh I got it.. but that is exactly what you're bitching about. You're just not bitching about people doing it a slower rate, but (try to follow me here) it's. the. same. thing.
Look - my contributor value right now is just under $90 and in about 2 hours it's going up another $10. I spent less than $20 on all of the games that make that value. So I am a contributor value "cheat" "farmer" "sorry piece of shit" I'm just slower than the truly evil.
Follow this - THEY'RE GIVING GAMES AWAY
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Google the word "intent". It seems you don't know it yet.
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After seeing this, next time i get a gift card I'm putting at least $5 into a contribution.
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Really? I don't think so.. See my replies to jbwyatt1, including the one right below here.
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"INTENT" SMARTASS. 2ND TIME.
Would you still call it good of you if you gave that homeless guy the $10 bucks purely because you were promised tax cuts for doing it? And before you go "oh but that's the way of the site, so what if people give away something with the wrong intentions - we're still winning games for free", try, again, thinking a bit deeper. These contrib. farming people are being actively rewarded with things meant for others - people who are generous.
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would the homeless guy give a flying furry fuck what my "INTENT" for giving him the $10 was
that's my point
rewards meant for others..? who, the REAL contributors that give for the RIGHT reasons..?
the ones that truly do give for the right reason (although I fail to see how others are wrong) aren't looking down at the ones that give just to say they gave something and weasel their way into the club
Oh look Barnaby - it's Winston, he didn't really EARN his membership. Certainly did not, Cedric muhboy, he just took advantage of an opportunity and now he thinks he's one of us, silly fellow, let's make a higher level club within our club so he can't be part of it cause he's not really good enough ya know. Smashing idea ol' chap
did ya follow all of that - smartass ☺
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I think you are thinking too deep.
The point of steamgifts is to give and to receive, period.
I don't feel cheated on if someone with a boosted contrib. value wins a game because they got to join the same giveaway as my 'legit' contrib. value (though mine can be argued as boosted too, by your standards) because end of the day, giving games is what this site is about. Even if I bought my games on sales I see and picked the one that would give me the most profit for the least amount of money I am still giving, no?
I believe I am getting your point and not understanding what it is you are moaning about, you seem to think this website is anything else than a place where people with extra games give games to people who want to receive extra games.
Want to escape it? Join an exclusive group and run group only giveaways.
Edit: Allow me to clarify: I GOT YOUR POINT, I JUST THINK IT'S STUPID. People are doing it for the contrib. ratio, not to give away games? Fine with me, 'long as someone receives their game.
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I really don't get the point.
Spending time to earn money to buy games = good
Spending time to earn games = bad?
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.. try reading more of the thread first, understand what's really being discussed. Your point has been raised many times, and replied to / refuted, and I grow tired of replying to all these posts saying nothing new or relevant.
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Contributor value was given to us to measure the amount people have given away and tie certain benefits to it like increased chances. I still don't get why it is considered to be a bad thing when someone strategically gives away games that boost his value the most with the less effort. In fact, i am doing that. Every game i gifted wasn't needed by me or my friends which means they had zero value for me. But rather destroying them, i gave them away here to increase my score. Why does this make me a bad person?
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I only giveaway games for the sole purpose of raising my contributor value to increase my odds of winning. Giveaways that used to only see an average of 500-700 entries when open for a day or two now see thousands of entries easily.
This is the kind of mentality that contributor value has created and was inevitable as the site became more popular.
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Which means, what, exactly? Thanks for posting yet another space filler with no real point to make. So what, because it's going like that, that means we're just supposed to sit back and let it be?
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Design a better system that does not cater towards exclusivity and exploitative behavior, but increases one's chances of winning.
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never happen because as soon as you do, which as stated above, the contributor option was originally for, there will be some who find a way to be a part of that system and those in the system will create a new level of it to further set them apart and some left behind in the lower level will find a new way to get to that level - it's what people do
contributor only giveaways
someone never made a giveaway buys a game on sale and gives it away so they can enter them
contributor only giveaways with higher value required
someone with low value finds a bunch of sales and deals and gives away more games so they can enter
repeat until black hole forms - start over with different method - repeat same process
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the amounts of walls of text here made it impossible for a human being to read everything in this thread, but from what i read, they are still giving away games for free, so why bitch about it?.
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Read my OP better for an answer to your question. And if you're not interested in the discussion, don't post the same damn thing so many others have also already posted, which is entirely irrelevant and refuted many times over anyway.
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im interested in the discussion, but like said its really hard for me to read all of the other post and understand everything,so i cant really catch the deal of what is going on
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So you want people to pay full price for games they give away? I bought almost all of them on sale and will continue to do so. If it is not half price or better, why would I even bother? That is how I buy for myself, so that is how I gift, most of the time. I wont lie, I bought three or four copies of sleeping dogs during the short five dollar window, but thats because I think it is a good game. I like giving away good games. And occasionally games other people consider good that I hate, e.g. Witcher. Or games that turned out to be shit. Fucking Aliens:CM. And sometimes I will buy a bundle because it is the cheapest way to get game xyz for myself. That leaves me with games I dont want or need. Give them away.
I feel like you are getting too upset about people giving stuff away. Yeah, the contib value will be exploited and such is the norm, sadly. Game the system any way you can. I think it is ridiculous that people spent money just to get ten times their return in contrib. It probably wont even pay out.
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So some kid is going to watch 50 ads a week just to earn a measly game like Dungeons, and then he's going to give that game away to strangers?
I'd say he EARNED that contrib value more than I would if I gave away a Dungeons key that I bought!
It's hardly an exploit to get 1 game a week for free, and at that rate it would take a year to get to $1000 of c.value (assuming none of the games are bundle games).
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Your entire argument revolves around 'intent'. Instead of trying to police the intentions of others, let everyone examine their own. Anyone with truly altruistic intent would never enter a single giveaway, ever. Every time someone enters a giveaway they are in effect being selfish. First by lowering everbody else's chance to win, and if they win, by taking that game from one of the other entrants. What threads such as this accomplish is to spread discontent and create a really negative atmosphere on this site. Those who are truly exploiting will not care and continue on their merry way, some will unnecessarily call their own giving into question, with the rest left wondering why some of the kids (and unfortunately adults) are fighting. Vague threats from the staff sadly only compound the problem.
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I was trying to argue before that you couldn't measure intent... well, I stand corrected. Really hit the nail on the head.
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One of the things i was trying to say. Well said, sir
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"Those who are truly exploiting will not care and continue on their merry way.."
Hence, you do acknowledge that there are people consciously and purposely exploiting the system. Which merits discussion of the issue. Knowing it exists doesn't mean I need to accept it because "those who are truly exploiting will not care and continue on their merry way", and be complacent. This needs a solution, unless you don't care about the issue of users with truly 100% selfish motivation ruining the concept of what the contribution system should afford as an option - the option for those that want to, to reward people who have given away games for any number of less selfish reasons. You're the one polarising and simplifying the argument to suit the needs of your point here, not me. Let me reiterate what I said in my OP:
"And no, not every giveaway has to be for 100% altruistic, selfless reasons. There's a wide range of nuances between trying to be the next messiah in terms of altruistic intent, and being a grubby bottom-feeder who only ever cares for persona numero uno. But regardless of intended motivation in making giveaways, you can be sure this contrib. boosting crap is entirely selfish, and purely an attempt to shamelessly exploit and trick the system, nothing more."
Let me put it this way - who do you think people making, say, 1000+ contrib. giveaways are making them for? Who are they trying to reward / be generous to by setting such a value? Certainly not the type of people who come to a site built around a positive idea, that in general is supposed to be a positive place (as you too seem to acknowledge) - and no, that's not me saying "hippy dippy funtime land" either, before you try to oversimplify that, too - looking for the best ways to trick their way into those high contrib. giveaways, nothing more.
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Actually, I know for a fact some people make 1000+ contrib giveaways just for the heck of it. I do it, for instance. I know many other people who ask for opinions of what contributor level to make it and usually the high contrib votes win out.
I'm certainly not trying to reward "legitimate contributions"
I'm obviously not saying that no one makes these giveaways as rewards, but there's another side to look at as well.
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Even then, my points still stand. And people farming contrib. still break the system and remove the option of doing it to reward legit contributors..
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Then why are you arguing over and over about the same thing? You even said yourself "But regardless of intended motivation in making giveaways", so intent completely and absolutely doesn't matter. Acknowledged so far, as does everyone else here.
"you can be sure this contrib. boosting crap is entirely selfish, and purely an attempt to shamelessly exploit and trick the system, nothing more."
Everyone agrees with that too. So your whole problem isn't with the 'intent' you emphasized in your answers before, it was with the people and their stupid antics.
Also you constantly go on about like 'It's bad and being complacent with the current situation is also bad' or something along those lines, but I never read something even akin to an improvement of the system or a suggestion.
Beside that group you were talking about, but that would limit people to the group and would be far harder to implement than a simple and convenient contributor limit. Easy to implement and use, easily exploited. Hard to implement and somewhat complicated to use, harder to exploit. And as it was stated many times from many different people before, people will find a way to exploit the system (until a black hole emerges :))
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Don't take sentences out of their intended context to change their meaning.. "But regardless of intended motivation in making giveaways" came after the bit about varying degrees of altruistic intent, and meant no more than "regardless of the precise motivation, whatever form or degree of altruistic intent everyone making a giveaway has", and besides, that still doesn't take away from what I keep saying, over and over, which comes right after the bit you butchered out of my OP - "you can be sure this contrib. boosting crap is entirely selfish, and purely an attempt to shamelessly exploit and trick the system, nothing more." Ignoring everything else that's part of this discussion, that fact stands above water.
As for a suggestion for improvement, yes, there could be more posted about that - oh but wait, there is. There's enough people on this thread who have said they want the contributor system to just go away. My stance on it (also copypasted in two places already) is this:
"Even a basic course in ethics will tell you it is ALWAYS a bad idea to tangibly reward desired, positive character traits, in any community or society, and will always lead to degradation of said traits, as well as the society / community's cohesion and harmony as a whole."
End of the day, the only thing you can do is filter by knowing people - i.e. group giveaways. Which is what I'll continue using to do giveaways. In the meantime, as I've said before, I'll still try to contribute to the site in the ways I usually do.
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You know how they say 'you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time'?
You can prevent some forms of exploitation all of the time (bundles), all forms of exploitation some of the time (exploited keys, once they're noticed), but you can't prevent all forms of exploitation all of the time.
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I doubt more than 1% of the users on this site joined for the specific purpose of being altruistic. We're all here for free shit.
Anyone who knows how to exploit the Steamgifts system would instead just join the many private, exclusive giveaway groups floating around where people circlejerk games to one another and only have 20-30 entries at the most. Something the OP has done for quite a while.
Contributor value and contributor giveaways were created for the specific purpose of countering that particular issue and they're not going anywhere.
Now, for the people who are against those "exploiting" this flawed little system, I propose they help design one that does not cater towards exclusivity and farming behavior, but still increases one's chances of winning.
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"..exclusive giveaway groups floating around where people circlejerk games to one another.."
You mean groups of people who actually get to know each other somewhat personally and thus want to give games away to, and share amongst each other? You know, the kind of group that doesn't feel like giving away games to people who really do look at things the way you seem to?
Contributor value giveaways are meant to reward people who have contributed a lot in the form of games shared. Not people purposely trying to find ways in to these giveaways. If I make a 2,000+ giveaway, I do so thinking "oh, hey, whoever wins this already gave away so much of their own stuff, out of their own <insert whatever nuance of generosity / altruism here>, let me make something for them". And people who farm contributor value ruin that whole concept / option.
You seem very much in your posts to see gifting as a "something for something" deal, like there must be something in it for you when you choose to gift something, like you need an external incentive other than simply having some cash, and wanting to share some with other people you like. Might I suggest SteamTrades.
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Well, you haven't made a $2,000+ public giveaway yet. Actually you haven't made a public giveaway period, so I don't know why you think you can say anything about this...
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I've already replied to retsukun on page 1 about the ways you can contribute to the site, and the public community at large, that have nothing to do with making giveaways for them. I've sinked enough time and effort in to the forums, catching rule breakers, reporting people, finding mult. accounters, helping people with PC issues, to warrant discussion. Besides, even if that weren't true, the validity of the arguments posited is far more important than the person positing them. If what I say has merit, it has merit, whoever I am.
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I'm not sure what relevancy your reply has to my post. I'm saying you've never made a high contributor giveaway before, so you can't say anything about the motivations for making one. I did not mention anything else.
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Not really a problem IMO, contributor giveaways aren't that impressive anymore unless you go to the 3000-4000-5000$ range. Even 1000$ gets 100+ entries easy.
And this isn't really a new thing. People have been using cheap games to giveaway in order to get in/stay in private giveaways since the beginning.
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Yeah, but that's a further sign of the problem - look at the profiles of some of those 100 entries and you'll see loads of contrib farming people. When you make a giveaway with let's say, 2k+ value, are you telling me that you're making a giveaway with that value for anyone other than people who have chosen to be generous?
And where's the ceiling then? The minimum value needed to "filter out" farmers will climb higher and higher over time, locking out more and more legit gifters with something other than "must find best way to trick system" in mind. Me as an example - I spent around 170 euros on my giveaways in total (an estimate, not 100% sure). I have about 340 value. I could have also, with those 170 euros, gone and bought some bundles, some ridiculously priced games on some sale somewhere (but that aren't on the bundle list - stuff like Sleeping Dogs, currently Htman Absolution's on sale for 10 bucks somewhere, too) and gotten more than triple, heck quadruple the contrib value I have now, had I done this. See my point? You always get way less than farmers as someone just trying to give away games for the sake of giving away games. Do I care that much that I might not get in to contrib giveaways sooner? Or have more entries in these giveaways, thus a lower chance for myself? No, it has nothing to do with that. But I do take offense at the idea that someone who came here trying to find ways to trick the system is getting rewarded for such behaviour, wrongly.
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I've already replied to you above, but I think this deserves one as well. "are you telling me that you're making a giveaway with that value for anyone other than people who have chosen to be generous?"
My answer is yes.
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It is. Check some of the 150 or so entries on those 1k+ giveaways. Then read what I just replied to c00lizz right above here.
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Not sure what the fuck you're all crying about. It's an earning website for games, you get a steam key and give it away here. It's not cheating. In fact you all get more giveaways.
You're all crying because he didn't spend money like you did but instead earned it from a website by watching adverts?
Pathetic. This thread is fucking stupid.
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Nope, you're just entirely missing the point. Maybe because you've not been here very long, don't know how bundle game values are calculated, don't know how people are exploiting the system, and don't understand what contributor values were made for.
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Regardless of what things are intended for, you need to change things on the output side of things. Input is not something that we can efficiently regulate here without being unfair to -someone- here.
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You know, I was going to post a long perhaps rambling response saying how I could care less about "intent" or some of the other things that apparently aren't being debated, but I just decided to look in a few of these $1k plus contributor giveaways and you know what - just a random sampling of the folks that posted their thanks shows that a lot of them appear to have given away a wide variety of games, some bundle stuff, some sale stuff, somethings that are/were simply cheap, and undoubtedly some things that were full price. This all led me to the conclusion that I already had - don't care about intent, they're putting up free games - don't care how they acquired games, they're putting up free games - don't care what their contributor level is, it doesn't impact me giving away games - don't care about high contributor giveaways, I like to win yet that isn't the main reason that I am here...
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I can show you lots of profiles with 10 - 20 x bundles on them. You saying that's a case of "don't care about the intent"? Have you ever made a high contributor giveaway? Think about it, and imagine why you might want to set that value to begin with. If intent didn't matter, why wouldn't someone set 0.00?
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Perhaps I should have left the "I" at the start of each of those statements, but even then I can answer the question posed - I know exactly why I would create a high contributor giveaway and that would be to reward those that gave away a lot of games - this is regardless of how much they paid, but since that IS the measure the feature uses, it works for me. I also know that those that have an issue with this would also have an issue with it if the mechanism were the number of games. Basically the argument boils down to people wanting the best odds for the best games and they feel they deserve equal chances to it - but I'd argue that the contributors should retain the right to create giveaways as they please - high contributor value or not. Again I am not here simply to get games - sure, I like to receive them, but I also enjoy giving them away and every now and then I like to set a contributor limiter as well.
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Once again, you've never made a high contrib giveaway yourself. I don't see how you can criticize other people on that point.
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And I have no brain with which to think of what my intent would be were I to make one? The only reason I haven't made one so far, yet (was thinking of doing so for a few of my giveaways) is precisely what this threads' topic is.
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Whoa, wall of text and yet is says nothing. You know, going to work/taking some part time job will get me more money than using this "strategy". Time = Money. Just because you won't spend money on those games doesn't mean they are for free.
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If you're not going to read the wall of text, and don't even have a clue about what's being discussed, why even post?
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You're debating the efficacy of doing cheap tricks like this TG exploit, compared to just getting a job. Which is an off-topic tangent that adds nothing to the actual discussion at hand, concerning contributor values. An interesting enough tangent, sure, also worth thinking about, but not relevant to the discussion.
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You don't think it's relevant, but I do. If you only stand to lose money from contributions, even if "exploited," why would you do so? I hardly count losing money as a reward. The answer lies in the fact that those people "exploiting" contributor value have additional reasons why they are giving away the games. Maybe it's more altruistic than you think.
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This below here shows exactly what's wrong with contribution farming.
It was an announcement on a group from someone trying to get ref links, which I have copy pasted below. There's ref. links all over the original I'm not putting here - emphasis added to the lines that cause me most offence and prove my point:
JUST TO BE CLEAR: THIS IS NOT MY TEXT, THIS IS SOMETHING I SAW SOMEWHERE. If mods want, I will remove the copypasted bit, or remove the "instructional" bit, as my whole intent is to counter such behavior, not encourage it.
Boost Your "Given Away" Total on SteamGifts
Sorry to promote TremorGames so much. It might seen like I'm just trying to refer you all, but that's not entirely the case-bear with me for a second.
If you frequently use SteamGifts, you know that having a high giveaway total will increase your likelihood of winning to a certain extent. The following advice will have you boosting your giveaway total by around $15 every week. Sounds too good to be true? It's not. Here's proof.
HERE'S HOW IT WORKS.
I'm not going to lie, I get a 20% bonus off whatever you earn. If you're not yet a member of TG, I encourage you to sign up here.
Next, leave one of these videos playing in the background; repeat with the next one when it's done for 5 coins every time. (If the link didn't work, just click on the red "More Coins" button and find the video tab). With around 10 videos a day times 5 coins each time, that's 350 coins a week--almost enough for Dungeons: The Dark Lord (worth $20, 395 coins). Because the games change frequently, check out other games under 1000 coins. You can easily utilise this method to join the league of those who have given away hundreds of dollars worth of games. Just make sure to buy games that weren't part of a bundle for maximum return!
That's just through watching (or rather, backgrounding) some videos. I got 600 coins for trying the Hulu+ free trial. That, plus 300 I already had, got me Two Worlds 2--$30 worth right there.
Thanks for reading!
.
.
.
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"You can easily utilise this method to join the league of those who have given away hundreds of dollars worth of games. Just make sure to buy games that weren't part of a bundle for maximum return!"
Exactly you contrib. farming douches - the giveaways made with higher contributor limits were made by people to reward those people who have a high contrib. value on their profile due to choosing to giveaway games, purely for generous and warm spirited reasons, not for people trying to exploit the system and strategically try and boost their contrib. value - like you types with that attitude of plotting the best way to get "maximum return".
I've participated in a number of these contrib. farming threads / discussions, and was / am pretty sick and tired of the way things are going, but this load of crap "instructional" on how to "boost your contrib. value!" really prompted me to post this up, see what reactions people post. Go ahead, try defending such a ridiculously dishonest, conniving attitude.
And the site doesn't like exploited keys being given out and takes a stand against them, a lot in the community are very vocal against piracy etc, and act like moral white-knights, but this behavior's somehow ok? Tell me again why the contrib. value feature was implemented in the site again? That's right; as a simple way to record and reward generosity - i.e. to give people a tool to give back to people giving a lot away, after the fact. Not as an incentive to encourage exploitation and trickery, and selfish motivation. And no, not every giveaway has to be for 100% altruistic, selfless reasons. There's a wide range of nuances between trying to be the next messiah in terms of altruistic intent, and being a grubby bottom-feeder who only ever cares for persona numero uno. But regardless of intended motivation in making giveaways, you can be sure this contrib. boosting crap is entirely selfish, and purely an attempt to shamelessly exploit and trick the system, nothing more.
Period.
I'm not going to call anyone out here publicly, but I keep seeing low entry, high contributor limit giveaways with entries off people with 1k+, sometimes even 2k+ contrib. value on their profile, but when looking through their given away games, all they've given away are 20x Crazy Machines, 30x Shadow Ops, etc. One such profile I saw had more than 2k value, but looking through their list of given away games, a rough estimate of what they actually spent on it would fall shy of two, maybe three hundred bucks, being very generous in my estimate.
So, firstly, that 2k+ is bull (and yes I know almost everything given away here has been on sale etc, but there's still a HUGE disparity between buying a 20 buck game for 5 and giving it away, and buying 5 bundles for that price, then netting 5x the value of the games in that bundle), as well as the far more important issue - they're clearly, undeniably selfishly, strategically trying to boost their value as cheaply as possible.
And these exploitative types, who are on here purely, entirely, 100% solely to get free games, and are trying to trick the system however they can (even if it means they begrudgingly have to spend a handful of dollars [euros, whatever] to fool the site into letting them in to lower entry giveaways), get rewarded with <20 entry AAA giveaways? And this is right how again?
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