Why? Competition is good for consumers. Years of Steam's near-monopoly only got us crap.
Comment has been collapsed.
So far competition did nothing to provide a better service or less prices. The only thing that happened to consumers is that now they need multiple accounts and clients for managing their games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually, in this case the publisher actually does offer a lower price for Exodus after switching to Epic, albeit for the US only, it seems. Credit where credit is due.
Comment has been collapsed.
Whats the price? I am from eu and the price is 60 euros.
Edit: i saw your other comment, yeah great i went from buying it to not buying at all even at a deep sale. Nice joke deep silver.
Comment has been collapsed.
The only thing that happened to consumers is that now they need multiple accounts and clients for managing their games.
I 100% agree. Also, I have sunk so much money into steam that I can't stand the thought of them closing, even if I do prefer the DRM-free style of nearly all of GOG's games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Already have Battle Net, Steam, Discord, uPlay, Origin. Adding Epic launcher doesn't hurt me in the slightest.
Comment has been collapsed.
How can you say that? Maybe Steam would have abandoned any type of sale alltogether if there was no competition by now.
Remember when sales where actually good? So they already became less good, you think people only using Steam would be an incentive for good sales for Valve? Of course it's more complicated than that, some buys during sales probably would never have happened if it wasn't for the sales, but I think you can catch my drift.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not really competition if they make it an exclusive, competition would be if they sell it next to Steam, not instead of on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's a timed exclusive.
Also, ten years of Steamworks exclusives were somehow better?
Comment has been collapsed.
I never said they were, though people could buy Steam games on other places besides Steam so that is different from only being to be able to buy at 1 store, though it still needs Steam to activate the game, we don't need to buy the game at Steam itself.
Competition is fine, give people a choice where they want to buy games, exclusives don't give people that choice, the only choice exclusives is a yes or no, but that choice goes with every purchase, ever.
Comment has been collapsed.
If they gave you the choice, you and everyone else would just buy on Steam. It sucks, I understand that. But I also believe what Epic does might be the only way of getting into the business and becoming a legitimate Steam coimpetitor. Because let's be honest, most people would hate on Epic no matter what. They would stay loyal to Steam and ignore Epic, even without all the exclusivity BS. So from a business standpoint doing a few exclusives to start things off actually seems reasonable. Valve did kind of the same thing back when they made Hald Life 2 steam-only. People hated them for that, Every other game they could just play right from the CD. But for Half Life 2 they suddenly had to install this stupid extra piece of software which used up resources and bound the game to an account, with no way of ever reselling it. People were really mad about it. But in the end Valve lured enough people in to get the machine going and become what they are today. I think Epic is basically attempting the same thing, and I am not even mad about it. Using another launcher is not the end of the world. I just hope they stop with the exclusivity thing once they have a decent base and implement certain features soon, such as game code activation.
Comment has been collapsed.
True, if I had a choice I would just buy on Steam or any other website that sells Steam keys, I remember when I bought Diablo 3 and I could just launch it without any dev launcher, it was great until they decided I needed a launcher from now on, ugh!
Lets hope they will stop with the exclusives soon, Steam could use some good competition for sure so am waiting for it to happen because for now that's not really happening.
Though Discord is also selling games but you never hear anything about that, did it die as fast as it came...?
Comment has been collapsed.
Discord are only selling a small selection of games, whilst they do have a larger selection these aren't available for purchase and can only be played with a Discord Nitro subscription.
Comment has been collapsed.
To be honest, as soon as they added the store, I tried to find a way to hide it and luckily there is!
Weird that they have more games available than they sell, I mean why not make the Nitro games buyable as well?
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm going to friendly disagree in two things.
First, there's a consumer friendly way to do this. It may be longer, harder and directly related to how you handle the rest of the business. But taking a game hostage is not consumer friendly. Offering a better service is. And it works. GoG.com is a very nice (yet rare) example of that. From a bussiness standing point it is of course the wrong way. Yet if you care enough, it is possible. Kudos to GoG.com right here, right now, for they didn't lock their most popular franchise (Witcher) to their platform. And they easily could.
Secondly, I have to disagree with the comparison to Valve and what they did with Half-Life 2. That is very different, as it was their game, their title. They did not bought out the distribution rights to GTA:SA, or Doom 3 or Far Cry. They developed their own game for it. Even if they did what Sony or Microsoft are doing with their console exlusives it wouldn't be that bad. It would suck for the player, but at least it woudn't suck for the developer as being a first party developer for an exclusive title has its perks and benefits. But this is different. The game was announced in Q4 2017 for PS4, XBONE and Steam. And now, less then three weeks before release they snatched the game from the platform it was all this time coming to.
I understand that Epic needs to succeed. And I can even understand they would want to do it by making an exclusive game. But the key word is "make". Not to buy out. They did it with Ashen, Hades, The Journey and now with Metro Exodus. I am all for competition with Steam, but not like this. They could invest in some talented studios to make first party titles for them but instead they are buying out titles that are already made and basically taking them hostage, forcing players to use their platform. And I say fuck to that.
Comment has been collapsed.
Kudos to GoG.com right here, right now, for they didn't lock their most popular franchise (Witcher) to their platform. And they easily could.
Prior to the success of The Witcher 3 they weren't big enough to pull it off.After that Gwent was (and still is) a GOG exclusive as was Thronebreaker until they realised they weren't getting the sales they wanted. GOG may do lots of things right but they aren't always as praiseworthy as people try to make out.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well they could do it with Witcher 3 as there was insane hype for it. Actually, the situation was very similar to this one. Small east-european studio debuting with small, niché game that was somewhat broken but good. Then delivering more polished sequel and getting both praise and more publicity than ever while getting dough from sales on Steam, using all that to make third game in the series, with huge hype-train behind it. They could pull of the game from Steam and force people to join GoG and/or install GoG galaxy, but they didn't.
Gwent is exclusive, yes, but also free2play. And yes, I am well aware about what happened with Thronebreaker but even if that would remain an exclusive, it was still their game, they developed and they announced it would be exclusive to their platform. Metro Exodus on the other hand, was announced for Steam release over TWO years prior and pulled off the store mere three weeks before.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well they could do it with Witcher 3 as there was insane hype for it
Hype doesn't necessarily equals sales though.
And yes, I am well aware about what happened with Thronebreaker but even if that would remain an exclusive, it was still their game, they developed and they announced it would be exclusive to their platform. Metro Exodus on the other hand, was announced for Steam release over TWO years prior and pulled off the store mere three weeks
It is different in that it's their own franchise but similar in that it's a franchise that had an established userbase on Steam before they tried cutting out the middleman.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hype doesn't necessarily equals sales though.
It does affect sales very much. 'Big hype' =/= 'sales', but 'No hype' = 'no sales'.
It is different in that it's their own franchise but similar in that it's a franchise that had an established userbase on Steam before they tried cutting out the middleman.
Exactly. It is different :)
Comment has been collapsed.
No, it's not consumer friendly. Of course not. But is there really another way? Do we know any store that successfully competes with Steam? GOG seems to be the obvious answer. But from what I read GOG really doesn't sell that much. For developers and publishers it seems rather insignificant. Origin and UPlay still don't do that well except for their own titles. And is there anyone on earth who has ever bought a game on Discord? ^^
I am not saying I like this exclusivity thing. But it might be a necessary evil in order to finally get a viable Steam competitor. Because so far we don't have that, which means Valve can just do what the hell they want. Epic might actually have a shot at this. That's why I don't see this whole thing as negative as others. Based on how successful other clients are, it seems they need to do what they do in order to get a foot in the door. Question is, will they stop doing that at some point. Will they improve their client and offer a feature set similar to Steam. Will they offer any actual advantages compared to Steam, like lower prices or better support. If they actually rise to be a worthy competitor then I will see what happens today as a necessary step they had to take in order to get there. And that's ok. It might not be too consumer friendly. But consumer friendly doesn't seem to work.
I understand that Epic needs to succeed. And I can even understand they would want to do it by making an exclusive game. But the key word is "make". Not to buy out.
From a consumer standpoint I really don't see the difference. There's a game, and I can only play it using a specific launcher. What do I care who made it? Doesn't change a thing for me. Metro is a little bit different, because it was promised to be on Steam. But in general - I couldn't care less if they do this to their own games or to other ones.
Comment has been collapsed.
Competition is, and a key part of it is the option to buy from multiple stores, exclusivity is the opposite of competition.
Comment has been collapsed.
Limiting users options like this is not good for the consumer. If epic actually wanted to compete in a fair and honest manner they would get customers by offering the better and/or cheaper service (basically the consumer should want to use your store over others).
Comment has been collapsed.
They do. Only in US, thus far, but they do offer a better price.
Comment has been collapsed.
Steam wont be selling the game anymore (nor any other PC storefronts afaik), thus it's not a better price; it's the -only- price.
Comment has been collapsed.
If epic actually wanted to compete in a fair and honest manner
Epic would also allow user reviews on their games' pages. The last time I checked, they did not.
Comment has been collapsed.
How do you imagine competition without fragmentation?
Comment has been collapsed.
By being offered on multiple platforms, which is what competition is. Fragmentation is the opposite, by being exclusive to a specific platform.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's going to be available on other platforms as well.
And huge amount of games was exclusive to Steamworks. Did you have a problem with that?
Comment has been collapsed.
You seem to confuse some things judging by that strange argument.
The so-called Steamworks "exclusive" was because devs/publishers choose to do it that way to save on costs, and not because they were forced (or "convinced") to do so by Valve/Steam.
This is, essentially, no different than console exclusives.
Edit: BTW, insisting on devs doing same type of promotions on their platform does not count.
Comment has been collapsed.
Most Steamworks games don't use Steamworks.
"and not because they were forced (or "convinced") to do so by Valve/Steam."
But they were forced by the community. There are thousands upon thousands of people who adopted the "if not on Steam, I'll pirate it" policy. When Baldur's Gate Enhanced was coming out, the devs were literally bullied into making the game Steamworks.
Comment has been collapsed.
"forced by the community"?
You mean they responded to the market..?
Let me guess -- like a certain Coke company was "bullied" into making their classic coke again because otherwise consumers will opt for the competition?
At best, that is a weird look on how the market works.
Edit: Pirates will pirate regardless of Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not forced. Bullied. Twitter and other social media spammed with filthy shit and threats related to not making the game Steamworks.
Edit: Pirates will pirate regardless of Steam.
That's blatantly false. Easly refuted by looking at sales of non-EA/Ubisoft games that started off-Steam and then found their way to Steam (like S.P.A.Z.)
Comment has been collapsed.
I'd rather not comment on the first since it's just illogical (to me).
I will, however, semi-retract my pirate comment. I base my answer to this on two points:
- Some users will pirate regardless of low prices and wide-spread availability of games. Those who deem 5$ for a game of 60 hours as too expensive.
- Recent studies on the streaming market showed that movie/TV piracy is on the rise again after having been lowered in the last years. Apparently, the growing number of streaming networks causing a too big fragmentation for end-users "pushed" them to torrent sites again to avoid subscribing to too many services where they watch just 1-2 shows on each platform. I'd say it is safe to assume the same may be true for gaming platforms as well if they'll practice exclusivity.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'd rather not comment on the first since it's just illogical (to me).
Because it is illogical.
Recent studies on the streaming market showed that movie/TV piracy is on the rise again after having been lowered in the last years.
Recent studies also showed that small and medium-sized piracy is beneficial. Here's one such article - https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-01/iu-tht012519.php
Comment has been collapsed.
There is no real competition that is good for customer, only good for the publisher
Comment has been collapsed.
Put it on all stores equally for consumer choice. That's real competition.
Comment has been collapsed.
The type of positive competition we should be after as consumers is it being on both platforms with epic likely to undercut steam slightly to attempt to edge into the market. Full on poaching games creates an anti consumer situation forcing consumers into different drm. It is only for a year so its not the end of the world but it paints a grim picture of whats to come.
Comment has been collapsed.
Do You realize, that it's complete opposite of competition? It's Epic Game's monopoly. Yes. This is what we call "monopoly", kids. When one subject claims all rights to sell something.
Comment has been collapsed.
The exclusivity is temporary. It's a crappy practice, but Epic needs something to gather players.
Steam did the exact same thing for years, and somehow everyone here doesn't see the parallels.
Comment has been collapsed.
No, Steam never did anything like that. No one ever heard of such thing from Steam.
Also if bribery is what Epic needs, then they should remove themselves from market. Not to mention, it should be illegal.
Comment has been collapsed.
No, Steam never did anything like that. No one ever heard of such thing from Steam.
2003-2008. Maybe you're just too young.
Comment has been collapsed.
Could you give us any example? I am probably too young as well. I don't remember steam buying publishers to publish their games exclusively on steam platform. Sure you can't buy Portal or Counter strike elsewhere. Do you mean that as a parallel to EPIC?
Comment has been collapsed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)#History
last two paragraphs
Sure you can't buy Portal or Counter strike elsewhere. Do you mean that as a parallel to EPIC?
Well I don't, since you can buy Metro Exodus elsewhere - you can get boxed copies, and after a (way too long) period of time, it'll arrive on all storefronts.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you for your reply. I don't necessary see that those two games had to be exclusive to steam. You can buy Darwinia right now from their official page and it looks like it is not a steam key. However it might have been different situation in 2005. Also I guess there weren't many digital distributors back then. So even if that was the case. It didn't really harm anyone.
In regards to boxed copies. I can get boxed version of probably any AAA game in my country, not sure if many people are buying those. All it contains is few papers and key for steam. I don't see that changing with EPIC. It might be different in your country.
Do you expect EPIC to stop with this exclusivity BS after they gather customers (lets say after one year)? If you truly believe that I can see and respect why are you trying to defend their approach.
Publishers were forced to use steam by community because most of the customers actually like features steam provides. Having games in one place, achievements, community hubs, reviews and so on. If epic can provide something similar I am all for EPIC. So far I see feature-less client, same pricing and exclusivity locks.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you for your reply. I don't necessary see that those two games had to be exclusive to steam. You can buy Darwinia right now from their official page and it looks like it is not a steam key. However it might have been different situation in 2005.
Well that was 14 years ago. In 14 years from now the situation with Epic and Metro Exodus will be different as well.
It didn't really harm anyone.
Neither is Epic. Same shit, different client. That's my point.
In regards to boxed copies. I can get boxed version of probably any AAA game in my country, not sure if many people are buying those. All it contains is few papers and key for steam. I don't see that changing with EPIC. It might be different in your country.
Same here. That's my point - if people don't want to buy from Epic Store, they can go and buy a boxed copy, and get exactly the same product.
Do you expect EPIC to stop with this exclusivity BS after they gather customers (lets say after one year)?
Yup. Every major digital distribution platform in existance did that kind of crap for a year or two, and stopped after it grew to sufficient size. I don't expect Epic to be different.
Publishers were forced to use steam by community because most of the customers actually like features steam provides. Having games in one place, achievements, community hubs, reviews and so on. If epic can provide something similar I am all for EPIC. So far I see feature-less client, same pricing and exclusivity locks.
I guarantee that 90% of people who love Steam love it for the crazy sales that Steam did between 2009 and 2014.
And you can easly have all your games in one place anyway. I add shortcuts to my Steam library for non-Steam games. Sure, it also launches a second client sometimes, but this is a problem shared by a few games I actually have on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
"I don't have proof so I call someone a kid". Kay. Don't say You didn't. You just used different words to say that.
Also I have no idea what Steam did in the years, NOBODY used Steam. I don't care. The only reason why few but not many people used Steam these days was Counter-Strike.But still, there was "non-Steam" version of the game, so there was a little of those who did use the platform.
And we talk about modern Steam. When it became platform for distributing games worldwidely. More or less 2010 if not later. Not just few random titles + mainly their own games. And also... selling own games doesn't count either, right? Cause it can't be a bribery if You can't bribe Yourself.
Comment has been collapsed.
I posted links, dude.
But still, there was "non-Steam" version of the game
Yeah, and it was piracy.
Comment has been collapsed.
Competition is good... when the competition is actually trying to provide a better product. This is just an example of the Epic Store using their infinite money from Fortnite to buy out developers and use the incredibly shady practice of exclusives to attract people to their platform rather than making a better platform.
EA did it with Origin... instead of making Origin not be crap, EA decided to try to force anyone who wants to play a game they publish to use their platform. Same thing with Ubisoft and UPlay. By engaging in the practice of using exclusives to attract people... Epic is basically just telling us that they do not care about providing a better experience than Steam... they just want to get that quick money!
Comment has been collapsed.
What digital distribution platform was Steam up against? And what developer did they pay off to only offer their game exclusively on their store back in 2003?
Comment has been collapsed.
It wasn't up against any DDP, but it was up against offline SP play and "ownership" of purchased games, which was standard at that time.
As for Steam-exclusive games, in-house and out, I posted links way up.
Comment has been collapsed.
Competition is good for consumers if sellers do something like better service/prices to compete.
"Exclusives" more like attempt at "forcing" people not "encouraging" them.
Instead of : "get this game from us - it will be cheaper, better experience etc", you get: "you will get this game from us, or you wont play this game". or you will pirate the shit of it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Comment has been collapsed.
a) the game will be available through boxed copies on day 1 - so you don't have to buy it from Epic.
b) after (a way too long) period of time, the game will be available everywhere freely.
Comment has been collapsed.
But you still have to activate it on Epic even though people have pre-ordered it for Steam.
So now I see many canceling their pre-orders, as they don't want it on Epic and feel cheated.
Comment has been collapsed.
So? Regardless of where I buy my games, if it's not on GOG, Origin or (god forbid) uPlay, I will be forced to use Steam.
Same shit, different platform. Steam is forced on us permamently, Epic's exclusivity is at least temporary, which makes it better, funnily enough.
Comment has been collapsed.
Because Steam has more features provided that make a game on Steam inherently worth more than a game on any other platform as of right now.
ie. Community hubs, guides, discussions, groups, achievements, profile customization, themes, etc.
The Epic store has none of this... which is why people are upset that they are being forced to use the Epic store to play the third game in a series... that they have probably played on Steam. And Valve is not actively seeking out developers of games to make deals with them to remove their games from the Epic store like Epic is doing. That's the problem!
And sure this particular case might just be a timed exclusive... but Epic has made deals with companies to keep their titles exclusive to the Epic store... for the foreseeable future. One such game is Supergiant's Hades.
The fact of the matter is... the practice of exclusives is not good for the gaming industry... at all. And the Epic store as it is right now... is not even good for indie developers because of this practice!
Source: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidGalindo/20181210/332517/The_Epic_Store_In_Its_Current_State_is_Not_Good_for_Anyone.php
Comment has been collapsed.
Let Epic platform grow. Steam didn't start with any of these features, it grew over time, over what, 15 years now? It takes time to develop those features, and frankly, vast majority of users never use them. Community hubs, guides and discussions are borderline worthless thanks to Google and Reddit, achievements never mattered, reviews are mostly memes and brigading, and profile customization, themes and badges are just an exploiting the gaming-oriented mindset of us, to play us into gamifying making purchases... it's a very common technique used usually inside corporations to boost work performance. Very different goal, same psychology and techniques behind it.
It's like noone ITT was around when Steam launched.
The fact of the matter is... the practice of exclusives is not good for the gaming industry... at all.
I wholeheartedly agree. But unfortunetly it is a method of gaining a playerbase, and it works. And that's why Epic is doing this. Steam did it, Origin did it, uPlay did it, every-single-goddamn-platform did it, except for GOG Galaxy, and I'm not even sure about that last part.
Comment has been collapsed.
So a developer shouldn't want to get more than the measly 20% of sales they get from Valve, for games they worked so hard to make and even had to pay Valve money in order to get in the Steam store at all?
Comment has been collapsed.
100-30=70. Not countering your argument, just the number.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh 30% thanks for the correction. Yes 70% is still a massive chunk to Valve who only hosts the games for sale.
Comment has been collapsed.
so you're not using steam reviews, trading cards, key redemption, etc. etc.?!
Comment has been collapsed.
Devs from several studios that I met and hanged out with at Digital Dragons last year.
Comment has been collapsed.
valve takes 30% for sales under 10 million dollars.
sales under 50 million = 5% fee, and over 50m are 20%.
most popular games will reach the 10m threshold easily, so it's usually 25% cut for valve after the developer/publisher made that amount of money. ^^
doesn't matter if it's an indie, $1 card-trash game, or AAA title.
https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/3/18123649/valve-steam-revenue-sharing
you can search more about valve cut/fees, all sites report the same.
Comment has been collapsed.
all sites report the same
All sites also have only one source - Valve's official blog.
Comment has been collapsed.
No. I am a person who frequently meets up with people from medium-sized indie studios.
Comment has been collapsed.
weird, i have friends in both ironhide game studio and cccp and they confirmed what polygon wrote in their article.
maybe those developers you met are getting scammed by valve. it's also weird no one speaks up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Comment has been collapsed.
Who the hell would publicly speak out against Valve? To get banned for life from the platform that controls nearly the whole market (95%-100% for small games, 85-95% for medium, 75-85% for AAA)? I highly doubt that it's even legal to publicly discuss these things, Small studios can't afford that, bigger studios don't care because they get the better deal.
Comment has been collapsed.
Who the hell would publicly speak out against Valve?
Plenty of developers have spoken out against Valve, big and small. A simple google search would tell you that.
In fact, 10 seconds doing a google search, and I found a couple of articles with numerous very small indie developers "publicly speaking out against Valve." And these are just from a very brief search.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-12-03-indie-developers-are-unhappy-with-steams-new-revenue-sharing-tiers
https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/19/17959138/steam-valve-developer-support-pricing-reviews
If Valve was taking more than their 30%, we'd know about it already.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nobody talks about specifics of their deals. There usually is an NDA in place, and breaking it means no more business with Valve.
Comment has been collapsed.
anyone can make an anonymous thread in reddit or any other social media platform disclosing all the info they have without naming their company/games.
given how easily people find stuff to hate valve, i find it impossible to believe a single developer is paying more than the globally established 30% fee.
Comment has been collapsed.
anyone can make an anonymous thread in reddit or any other social media platform disclosing all the info they have without naming their company/games.
And then get dismissed as Valve haters, "no source?" and people who argue with exactly the same logic as you do.
Comment has been collapsed.
Obviously. Off-the-books conversations between medium or small indies and semi-insiders like myself aren't exactly well documented on the Internet.
Comment has been collapsed.
I hope you are saying that about all those Steam-exclusive deals as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think there is a difference between Epic specifically going after major developers to get them to sign exclusive deals, and Indie developers only publishing on Steam because it is one of the easier platforms to get on...
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually, they did it before. That's how I ended up on Steam in the first place (Metro 2033).
Comment has been collapsed.
Interesting (or infuriating) is that the price will be lowered for the US to $49.99, but will remain the same for Europe. Hmm.
Comment has been collapsed.
That was Deep Silver's decision. Not that it makes the pricing or Epic's store any more appealing. if only US customers get to benefit from the lower cut.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, that was my point. The higher revenue share for the publisher was credited as enabling the price cut:
Epic's competitive revenue split of 88/12 is hinted to be the reason behind the leaner price. "We are delighted to partner with Epic to bring the digital PC version of Metro Exodus to market," comments Deep Silver CEO Klemens Kundratitz. "Epic's generous revenue terms are a game changer that will allow publishers to invest more into content creation, or pass on savings to the players...
Source. So while store exclusivity is annoying, it's worth pointing out that it does come with a tangible benefit for the consumer in this case. But there's still no explanation for the US-only price cut, which is beyond lame.
Comment has been collapsed.
I would say it might be the VAT Tax in European countries.
Comment has been collapsed.
No, it isn't. VAT applied to Steam sales too, why should it make any difference on Epic's store?
Comment has been collapsed.
I know not quite on the topic but what percentage does GOG take?
Comment has been collapsed.
It's assumed to be similar with Valve's cut, as far as I know.
Comment has been collapsed.
They take flat 30%. That one is actually an industry norm, although Epic is right at the part where it could easily be under 20% and still make a pretty penny.
(Granted, even this 30% is more generous than the console royalties and fees.)
Comment has been collapsed.
(Granted, even this 30% is more generous than the console royalties and fees.)
Consoles used to have it even worse last gen when they also had to pay certification fees for patches.
Comment has been collapsed.
The best theory I heard so far is that Deep Silver doesn't sell the game in retail, in the US. They do in Europe though and that's why they feel obliged to sell it for the fixed price of 60€.
Comment has been collapsed.
Epic store does take lower cut from sales, but it also doesn't have the userbase Steam has.
I doubt they will make as much money on Epic store, as they would have on Steam. And it's a known fact that close to 50% of a game's lifetime sales come within 2-3 months after release. So I think it's a big financial mistake on their part, to put all their eggs in the Epic store...
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree. I don't think they'll ever make up for it with sales alone. You have to consider the game was briefly one of the top selling games on Steam before it got pulled as everyone panic pre-ordered it. That said, Epic probably offered them a crap ton of cash for this. I think the Satisfactory devs once mentioned the Epic money was enough to keep the studio going for an entire year, before any sales were made. That's crazy if true.
Comment has been collapsed.
Never pre-order
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp98SH3vW2Y
Comment has been collapsed.
R.I.P. Another game i won't buy. Epic is trying so hard to suck people into their client, but the more they try with things like this, the more i start to hate them.
Comment has been collapsed.
100% agree. I hate that I would have to go between multiple different platforms, logins, updates, etc, even for the same game series. I might actually pre-order metro on steam right now just so I have it there, with steam achievments, and overlay.
I used to not hate epic store, and they have gotten amazing deals on games like subnautica which deserves all the publicity it can get. However, I feel like making games 'epic exclusive' is too far. If they just had the games up on their store for a cheaper price than steam, I may consider buying them, but no, they take the game away from steam completly, in some cases even ruining the series, or game due to having to make an extra account, download the client, keep it updated and have it use disk space (which is not much but still, adds to all of the uplays and origins and battlenets).
I can understand what, and why they do this, but personally for me, it doesn't drive me towards epic store, but rather away from it.
Comment has been collapsed.
YEAH! Another way for me to save money!
Although, I do admit that I will use the Bethesda store for Doom Eternal. I love that franchise.
Comment has been collapsed.
Rlly fk Epic Store, how am tired of this
10 games here
10 games there
10 games everywhere
wont buy anything from epic
Comment has been collapsed.
The only way I own it on Epic will be when they give this free! Fuck the exclusivity.
Comment has been collapsed.
You say "Fuck the exclusivity." because the game isn't a Steamworks exclusive. That's... ironic.
Comment has been collapsed.
If a game is only in one store, it's called exclusive. Nothing ironic about that. I already have Steam, Uplay, Origin, Battlenet, and GoG. Epic launcher will not be a bad thing. But only when it's released on multiple store-fronts and "allows" the customer to choose the service they want to use.
Currently Epic does not have even 5% of what Steam offers.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, Epic doesn't have 5% of what Steam offers. It's a new platform, duh.
And the exclusivity lasts merely 2 weeks, it's not a big deal.
Comment has been collapsed.
And the exclusivity lasts merely 2 weeks
Incorrect. Read the OP again.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh yeah. It's 2 weeks AND A YEAR.
That's pushing it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Metro will stay at epic store until 2020. I want someone to break the monopoly of steam but not with forcing me to buy games from their stupid launchers but by offering me better services. So far the prices are the same and every game is offered only on their platform. Yeah sure nice joke, i will stick with gog thats actually customer friendly.
Comment has been collapsed.
Part of Valve/Steam's ToS with devs/publishers is that they must offer on Steam the same product promotions (i.e price, discounts, and so on) they do do on other platforms. This is to ensure Steam is not left behind if a dev offers a better price on their web-store.
So, in actuality, devs/publishers are forbidden from offering lower prices on the Epic store without doing so on Steam. Meaning, they would have to leave Steam to offer lower prices.Although this is not the first game to leave Steam for Epic, it is the first time I heard of a (supposedly) lower price due to it -- even if it is limited to a single region.
Go figure.
Edit: Yay to GOG.
Comment has been collapsed.
I dont agree with that as there are some games on gog that doesnt have the same price as steam plus metro exodus cost 50$ on epic but 60$ on steam so far. Thats just rumours, the only thing that seems to be true is that humble agreed with steam to offer the same game for free after a week or so from each other.
Comment has been collapsed.
What games are on GOG that have different prices from Steam**?
**in the same region.
Comment has been collapsed.
Shadow warrior 2013 costs 30 euros in gog and 35 in steam. I am from europe by the way.
Comment has been collapsed.
It shows me both as 40$ USD.
Enhanced Steam shows it is also 35 euro on Steam, but can't check GOG.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just checked and here it's indeed €30 on GoG and €35 on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
As i said, there is no rule that every store should have the same price and events and whatever else, all these are just rumours. If you want new customers at your new launcher lower your prices and improve your services, everything else is straight bullshit and not competitive market at all.
Comment has been collapsed.
if it was 2 weeks i wouldn't care, like they did with thronebreaker.
even 2 months would seem fine, but 1 year?
screw them. 🤷
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, 1 year is too much. I read "14 February" and I thought "cool, that's reasonable", but I didn't notice the 2020.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure, a new platform launched in 2018 by a Billionaire with less than 5% of Steam, which was launched back in 2003!
I'm all for competition but only when done correctly.
Also, as pointed out, exclusivity is for 1 year, which is kind of good I guess as now I'll be buying a complete edition at a discount!
Comment has been collapsed.
remember the metro series come from the developer that love to "remake" everything.
when they re-release exodus on steam, we might get a redux version for $60 instead of a year-old discounted game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah! Did not see thay coming. You win.
On a serious note, I don't think they will remaster it so soon.
I think the steam release will be for $25 for standard and $40 for gold edition with one final dlc to be released.
Then after 1 year, there will be a remaster for PS5/XB2 and PC priced at $50 for complete edition, discounted 50% or 75% for existing owners.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're reading what you want to read into what he said.
He didn't say he minded it being on the Epic store, he merely said he minded it only being on the Epic store.
Comment has been collapsed.
Valve isn't forcing devs to use Steamworks.
They can make a version without it and add it to another platform.
Comment has been collapsed.
they don't support customers, so there's no point in supporting either 4a or epic-trash.
time to buy games for $0 like i did when i was 12 years old.
Comment has been collapsed.
by turning pc gaming into console wars with all these exclusive titles.
Comment has been collapsed.
How many games can you get only on steam?
Valve has only went worse in the last two - three years and they never listened to customers OR developers.
Developers don't want to play this game anymore (like the last "if you give a high discount on the game outside of steam you have to do a discount on steam too") so I can absolutely understand that they try to use different markets.
If steam would be more open and dynamic we would not have this. But... I can't see a bad thing in Epics doing atm...
Comment has been collapsed.
How many games can you get only on steam?
valve doesn't force exclusivity on anything, except their own games.
they even let publishers/devs to generate keys and sell them outside steam, which gives 0% income to valve (plus a few cents from cards in the market) while they host the game, updates, and community.
if developers don't put their products on other stores, it's not because valve prohibits them from doing so, it's because
- no one else wants them (i don't think gog/discord would like $1 trash games in their store)
- the dev doesn't care and they make enough selling on steam
Comment has been collapsed.
Because they aren't reinforcing Steam's monopoly, appereantly.
Comment has been collapsed.
it's called the network effect. The more people use Steam, the more games are published on steam. the more games are published on steam, the more people use steam.
While I'm all for competition, Steam's dominance is actually a good thing, as it provides a valuable service that becomes more valuable the greater their dominance. The problem I have with e.g. Origin, is that EA forces anyone who wants to play one of their games to use Origin. I think much higher of UPlay, because at least those games are also available on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
No, Steam's dominance isn't a good thing. It brought us tons of anti-consumer practices from Valve.
EA forces anyone who wants to play one of their games to use Origin
And sure, Steam is so much better because it doesn't force you use Steam to play 90% of games on the PC market... OH WAIT IT DOES. It doesn't matter where I buy my games, if they're not on GOG, I will have to use Steam to play them.
Comment has been collapsed.
Valves developed and published games probably don't account for even 1% of the titles on Steam, those other games are all there because the publishers didn't want to bother putting them elsewhere. Don't blame Valve for publishers being too lazy/incompetent to use more then one store front on PC.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think much higher of UPlay, because at least those games are also available on Steam.
You are aware though, that basically all Ubisoft titles on Steam also require Uplay? So all you get is when buying them on Steam is being forced to run 2-drms at once. Nowadays there's a warning in the Steam Store at least (Requires 3rd-Party Account: Ubisoft Account ), in the past they did not even have that. Imagine my surprise when I was new to Steam and one of my first games I bought gave me a code and a download link for Uplay, instead of just downloading the game I bought. I actually prefer EA's approach to that: those (usually old) titles still available on Steam have Origin completely optional (by providing you with an extra key), while the newer titles, that require Origin, aren't sold on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
sorry. I don't own any uplay games, so I never experienced that
Comment has been collapsed.
Will Metro Exodus ever return to Steam?
Yes - Metro Exodus will return to Steam and on other store fronts after 14th February 2020.
Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/412020/discussions/0/1743358239849307090/#c1743358239849311122
Comment has been collapsed.
Already in the op (though I had it listed as the 15th instead of 14th)
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh boy,now its store exclusive as well.Well hard pass from me and i already had trouble convincing myself to buy it after they reveled the farcry type of gameplay. Store exclusives killed the PC master race meme. It is sad dough i had metro for long time on top of my wishlist.
Comment has been collapsed.
This is very bad marketing decision in my opinion,and this will make the publisher of this game lose more money and customers, the reason is not about the fact that steam is the top store (ok also for this) but the fact that there is many people in world right now play via cloud streaming gaming and right now this is possible only with STEAM or Battlenet , so remove the game from steam not only mean lose the sales of all the customers of steam but is mean also lose the sales of all the people that use streaming cloud services for play.
Top of that they already make the bad decision to launch the game the same day that FarCry New Dawn will be released (is both triple aaa,both fps,some people must decide buy 1 or another...) then now they remove it from the store too so then people will go buy farcry... very very bad marketing decision.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's cheaper than it was on Steam (in my region). At least their prices are better than Steam's. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
edit: Apparently, this is the reason, according to the devs/publishers:
The Epic Games store takes 12% of all revenues earned on the platform, while Steam commands a 30% cut that scales down to 20% on revenues once a title surpasses $50 million in sales. As for passing the savings on to the consumers, the standard edition of the game will sell for $50 on the storefront, as opposed to the $60 preorders had been listed for on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.
So europe go *** yourself. Thats a nice way to make your customers changing their minds about buying your games.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't buy the excuse that they're offering a better price due to the higher revenue. If it was, why is the game cheaper only in the US and the UK (and maybe some other region I might be missing)?
I feel like the lower price might be more a publicity stunt than actually passing the savings to the consumers.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just give them some time and you will see the us price get back to 60$.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's probably just a way to get some good rep after everything they've been doing. I guess, we're gonna find out when they announce the next AAA game exclusivity deal.
Comment has been collapsed.
Does it matter?
After a year it wont be an Epic exclusive anymore.
After a year denuvo will be removed because it was cracked in the meantime
After a year the GOTY or Gold Edition will be available.
They basically want that the People wait for the GOTy Edition ;)
Edit: Because nobody seems to get the baseline of my argument.
Just wait and everything negative may be no more. In Addition you may get a more complete game as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
Denuvo may not be removed. Just look at Arkham Knight. I wasn't going to support them anyway the moment I saw they integrated Denuvo and caused a shitfest on Steam forums by banning everyone around.
Comment has been collapsed.
After a year denuvo will be removed because it was cracked in the meantime
Games that have Denuvo removed are exception, not rule. Unless they outright said Denuvo will be removed eventually, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Comment has been collapsed.
I can't buy this game on Steam, so it isn't really a competition.
Comment has been collapsed.
DOOM Eternal - Beth launcher only?
RAGE 2 - Beth launcher only?
These two piss me off the most. I can tolerate Epic (so far, especially if they actually lower the price like for Metro Exodus), but fuck that good for nothing shitty ass crap Beth launcher.
Comment has been collapsed.
Metro lowered the prices for US ONLY. Since I am not in US for me there is no plus with them moving to Epic.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, I mention this earlier in the thread. I'm not in the US either, so there's no benefit for me either.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yea there are a few games on EA's Origin store I would probably buy but I wont go anywhere near that client (heard multiple stories over the years where entire game libraries just disappear and support wont help).
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe Sekiro becomes a B.net exclusive since it's published by Activision. DS was published by Bandai Namco and they would never do that, but Activision is Activision.
I feel like this is gonna happen more to smaller devs. I have a feeling this will be their next target: https://store.steampowered.com/app/578650/The_Outer_Worlds
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm just glad i don't have to switch floppys or cd's while playing. Most of you don't even know how good these times are for beeing a pc gamer....
Comment has been collapsed.
1 time one my friend tell me "Hey! come play my home! i just buy a new game is awesome! fighting game" ! , i go his home him put something like body bows or name like that , then when we make round 1,round 2 etc. each round the game ask to us to change around 4 disks hahahaha , i never go his home other time to play for 10 years hahaha
This is why also i laugh when i read some review say "recore loading time is slow" , maybe is slow for others but not for me for sure hahaha after that experience nothing is slow for me :D
Comment has been collapsed.
The first Baldur's Gate and Phantasmagoria II were a 5 CDs game. Since BG was a kind of open world, you had to change CDs when you traveled through Sword Coast.
Comment has been collapsed.
And if you knew the trick and had enough hard drive space (I had whopping 6,4gb at that time), you could just copy all BG discs onto the hard drive, adjust the path for each CD in the ini file and you were good to go to play without any disc at all. Loading times still sucked ass though.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, I knew that. The game also have a full install, but it was about 2,4 Gb. When this game launched, few ppl had large hhd storage. Later I got a Quantum Fireball 20 Gb and it was nice playing without CD swap.
Comment has been collapsed.
LOL
I remember one tape where I had to search for special words in booklet to continue playing. Fun thing - I don't remember game itself, just that it was terrible xD
Comment has been collapsed.
A lot of games did that. It was the standard DRM of old games.
One example was Alone in the Dark with object codes. Also I think that Ultima 7 used the game's cities coordinates.
Comment has been collapsed.
I remember those days. They were great.
In some ways better than today tbh.
Comment has been collapsed.
Valve takes 30% from every transaction, unless you are big publisher - then less. But epic still takes smallest tip right now (13% if I'm right).
Comment has been collapsed.
For now they do, yes. But they could split the difference and offer it cheaper on their store while letting consumers decide what platform they want to use right? But that isn't really Valve's fault nontheless is it? And it doesn't even matter in this case, does it? The game was announced for Steam release two years prior. Deep Silver changed their mind (got paid) three weeks before release? Nah mate, I'm gonna go ahead and keep hating on Deep Silver and Epic.
Comment has been collapsed.
Greedy devs and greedy store.
Nothing new xD
And yet - this would not be the case if valve had better offer for developers. Or not, who knows. We don't know what epic offered them for one year exclusiveness xD
All we can do is to vote with our wallets now :) I will buy it in tier one dollar bundle xD in 5 years during "buy anything or we bankrupt" bundle and I will choose to pay 100% for charity xD
Comment has been collapsed.
And if that rumour is true... Decisive people is DS should be locked in asylum xD
Comment has been collapsed.
why would i need to hate valve? epic store takes less cut, but prices still same and no community tools there, so why would a customer to go there?
Comment has been collapsed.
Because hating valve is the trendy thing to do for all the cool kidz who confuse buying off devs/publishers with forced exclusivity over inferior store with "C O M P E T I T I O N"
Comment has been collapsed.
"More wallet than brain" achivment unlocked for those kidoz lol!
Comment has been collapsed.
no, because if Valve would have worked with developers for the last few years we would not have this problem now.
And if I would be an Indie Developer I would say "f*ck Valve" after the last "hey if you generate enough money for us, you can get more" change and would move to itch, gog, epic or whatever too.
Valve is destroying their shop by themself and it's not fault by epic, gog or whatever...
Comment has been collapsed.
They advertised their game on Steam, the physical copies are supposed to get a Steam key, but then Epic and Deep Silver pulled the game from Steam 2 weeks before launch and changed keys in physical copies to Epic key. Screwing people who wanted it on Steam.
And Valve had to put an apology notice on the store page instead of the devs.
Yeah no. Fuck Epic and Deep Silver.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you have bought it on steam before, you still have it on steam.
I even can imagine, that deep silver saw, that they will not reach the 1.5mio mark that you need at valve to pay a lower cut so they moved on...
I don't even say Epic are the good guys and my post was more about "guys at least use your heads".
I don't hate valve. I don't hate epic. I also don't hate any other stuff because in the end it's "just" gaming and if steam or epic starts before the game... It does not matter.
20-25 years ago I had to buy games in different (real) stores, I had to install it by hand and from time to time with some other kinda shady software.
When I wanted to play the game I had to search for a cd and hoped that it does not have any scratches. Sometimes the CD looked good but I got an message like "please use the original CD" even if I bought the game and put in it the right disc.
If I wanted an update I needed to buy a magazin with some cd on it and hoped that there would be a fix and if not bugs never got fixed...
Today I maybe have to use some different launchers but it still makes things much easier...
Just remember who startet all this launcher stuff? It was Valve...
And now, 16 years later, some publishers don't want to share the cut with valve anymore...
Or at least they don't want to give valve that much...
You don't have to like this or anything else but these studios need to earn money because they run a business.
And if Valve can't hold the bigger players they need to change or they will, in the long term, die.
It was the same back then. The offline shops could not give publishers what they wanted but Valve could.
So Gaming-Stores died and people got unemployed because of Valve...
Comment has been collapsed.
No puedo odiar a Valve, gracias a ellos puedo comprar juegos con mi moneda local y pagar en efectivo sin la necesidad de usar un TC internacional (tambien aceptan locales). Por el contrario apoyo a Valve. Ademas Epic lo unico que hizo fue decir, me voy a quedar con un pedaso de la torta mas chico que Valve y nada mas, hasta ahora ningun anuncion sobre algo que favoresca a los consumidores.
Comment has been collapsed.
Completamente de acuerdo, solo toca esperar como queda todo este asunto de "exclusividad por launcher".
Comment has been collapsed.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/412020/Metro_Exodus/
If you want it on Steam, today is the last day you'll be able to pre-order it there.EDIT: Apparently it will return to Steam on Feb 14 2020 for those that are fine with waiting a year instead of pre-ordering.
EDIT2:
Physical copies of the game will come with a Steam key.EDIT3: Correction, it looks like retail keys will activate on the Epic store.
EDIT4: The game is now no longer available for pre-order on Steam.
Comment has been collapsed.