Allow these games on Steam?
When I play game I'm actually aware that what I'm playing is a game, and what I'm seeing is a screen displaying said game. Why should I believe that I'm super special and unique in my ability to discern reality and fiction?
Especially when we see that exceptions that are too much into games are generally laugghed at (angry people filmed while playing game and crashing their keyboards/screens seconds later because they lost or their internet is down).
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Nobody is saying you're unique. Most of us can do that. Some can't. The youngest gamers might be less able to than others.
The fact the game is solely about raping women (why not men? If they were publishing a multiplayer game about people raping each other the way they are raiding each other in all those survival games, it'd be a whole other argument, but this is concerning, I think, on purpose and on consequences.
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So because most of people are capable but some are not we should all collectively hinder ourselves in our lives? I heard knives can hurt people, but last time I checked my kitchen knives were quite useful to me in everyday life, and I'm not willing to give them up just so somebody in my city can feel safe - at least not when they (my kitchen knives) are not directly threatening said person. What I'm trying to say, said game doesn't actually threaten anybody in particular, but its cencorship would set precendence for game censorship.
If you feel that you are justified to censor people, just wait some time, and there will be somebody who feels justified to censor you.
And you can leave protecting children from mentally harmful content to their parents.
Also, I don't really get why you're worried about not being able to rape men in this game. Shouldn't you be relieved, that men were spared from suffering?
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So because most of people are capable but some are not we should all collectively hinder ourselves in our lives? I heard knives can hurt people, but last time I checked my kitchen knives were quite useful to me in everyday life, and I'm not willing to give them up
I don't even get your argument here. Are we talking about guns or games that make kids even more insensitive to women than the rest of the media already made them?
If you feel that you are justified to censor people, just wait some time, and there will be somebody who feels justified to censor you.
Well this whole discussion already scored some censorship points on both sides.
And you can leave protecting children from mentally harmful content to their parents.
It's a cop-out. Parents can only go so far and Steam should not be taking money in that kind of crap.
It's like saying drugs should be legal because parents should be the ones protecting their kids.
Also, I don't really get why you're worried about not being able to rape men in this game. Shouldn't you be relieved, that men were spared from suffering?
You missed my argument entirely. Why am I not surprised?
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Look at it in a way that murder means putting that much pain, human life shuts down, and rape means imprinting that pain onto the other person, so it stretches forever.
Both are bad.
P.S. Rape in any kind of media for me seems super uncomfortable to fathom.
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Well, it's the same as with games where you kill people - it does not mean that player will start to kill in real life. And so far there is no proof that violent games make people more violent. And if someone want to rape women - I prefer him doing it in a game, than in real life. I don't really care what game files feel.
Another question is - is this game any good? If it's a good made game, with smooth gameplay and great graphics, and interesting at least for those who will want to play it - well, that's fine. But if it's another flip-asset that mentions rape just to get some attention - then it's outright trolling, and should not be in the store.
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And if someone want to rape women - I prefer him doing it in a game, than in real life.
For arguments sake, that's the exact argument that some pedophile use to ask for making downloading and owning pedophilia porn legal.
It's not just a game when it's the whole point of the game. It's not just a game when it makes kids, who are already confused about what rape is, and what consent is, play rape.
Another question is - is this game any good? If it's a good made game, with smooth gameplay and great graphics, and interesting at least for those who will want to play it - well, that's fine. But if it's another flip-asset that mentions rape just to get some attention - then it's outright trolling, and should not be in the store.
That's a good argument but honestly considering the amount of trolling in the description alone, I doubt the point is to make a good game, and not just to poke the bear, titillate the pervs and make some money.
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For arguments sake, that's the exact argument that some pedophile use to ask for making downloading and owning pedophilia porn legal.
Guess what? I don't mind. When some pedophile has child porn - he does no harm. But in case with child porn there are another side - this porn has to be produced somehow. And THAT is real problem. So, child porn is forbidden not because of users, but because of creators. And of course it has to be forbidden to download too - because from there is only one step to user paying to producer for download, and that will encourage producer to abuse children - it's not acceptable. Another case is drawn porn with minors - I don't mind at all for this kind of thing, and in many countries it's legal for the same reason - no actual victim. Same for games - if this game will include photo or video content of REAL people - it should be forbidden. If it's all virtual - I see no problem, there are no victim in this case.
It's not just a game when it's the whole point of the game. It's not just a game when it makes kids, who are already confused about what rape is, and what consent is, play rape.
So, it's okay for children to play violence, but not rape? You know what, that's not about what should be the point of game and what should not. It's only a matter of access. If this game is not shown to children - it can't harm children. There is already a parental control in steam, I think next step should be forbidding to limited account to view such content (because every child can make a steam account, but adding funds should be possible only for adults). If steam will provide convenient methods for parents to limit children's access to certain content - I don't see why this content can't be placed in steam. But still with the same condition I stated above - it has to be a quality content, not just trolling trash.
I doubt the point is to make a good game, and not just to poke the bear, titillate the pervs and make some money.
And that's why I added the second paragraph, I don't mind adult-only oriented games, be it rape, violence or something like that, but in this case it doesn't really look like a game at all.
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If it's all virtual - I see no problem, there are no victim in this case.
I still disagree, again on principle because I have no data, because I think just like excessive exposure to pornography out of context has been shown to be problematic in young adults as it increase objectification and dehumanization of the subject of fantasy, I don't see why it wouldn't be the case with pedophile pornography, even virtual.
So, it's okay for children to play violence, but not rape?
I don't think either is ok. When I see the amount of violence even in programming on kids networks these days, I think we downplay the impact it has.
You know what, that's not about what should be the point of game and what should not. It's only a matter of access.
I completely agree. Personally I find this kind of game distasteful and I am suspicious of anyone who would even want to play it, and I would prefer Steam doesn't make money off that crap but I never said it should be banned. I do hope the devs and anyone who plays that game reincarnate as women further down the road just to see how fun and giggles being victimized can be, but I would be very happy at this point with a proper system to keep games like that away from younger minds.
Of course any cybernanny system can be bent and even broken so I guess it's useless and I'd rather people who want to rape women for fun get their fun somewhere else but hey, at least it would be a half a decent try.
I suspect Steam would prefer the game be available at large though because chances are they will make most of their money off teenage boys.
Thanks for the civil talk about the issue.
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Well that's not a good argument for child porn..
If there's underage pornography out there, it means a child was harmed/exploited for it.
If they're talking about like "loli" anime or whatever, where it's cartoon children, then fine. Creepy, but fine. And I believe that's already legal.. right?
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I dont believe that if someone is damaged enough to want to rape anyone in real life would not do it cause of a game. Maybe one day we could head towards that with healing gaming where a serial killer kills someone in a vr game and its satisfying enough for him to let real people live
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That may be right, yes. I don't have any research results, and I even doubt it's possible to do such research, because we will need a reference group of people who would actually rape someone, and that is obviously unacceptable.
On the other hand, I don't believe that if someone is sane enough to not rape anyone in real life will do it because of a game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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OMG how can anybody defent that crap? There's freedom of speech vs. protect the Kids from such sick shit and not always cencorship is bad. I have 3 kids and if they are gaming I expect from a serious gaming store to protect them from this unhuman piece of shit. Where is the barrier? Would you still argue for no cencorship if steam would provide babyraping sniff movies? Sorry I could puke when I see people agree with that.
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If you don't enable 18+ content yourself you can't see it at all?
That not protection?
I can understand being appalled with the content but the "protect children" is really not an issue here since Steam already gates it.
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schwachi197, respectfully, Is not your own responsibility watch over your kids?
Or maybe I'm confused about the wording there.
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I'm guessing he's not talking about 10 year old kids here. It's also dangerous to young adults and I doubt any parent knows what their teenagers are up to online at school or anywhere else.
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Even older, we are making ourselfs dumbs while "ignoring" what they do outside home, certainly you are not omniscient, but at least have the minimum knowledge about what kind of things they are doing, an open talk with the children can enlighten you a lot.
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Sure. But there's no need for such software anyway. I also can see no sense in a videogame to rape someone, thats totally sick. And sometimes children still get acess to such content (lets plays shown by classmates f.e) I can't (and don't want) control everything.
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The filter is on by default, nothing new is needed to be installed or whatever.
If your kid or your kids friends are specifically searching for rape porn on the internet then there's nothing you can do about that anyway and an asset rip garbage game on steam should be the least of your concerns.
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But it is necessary that something like this is on steam?
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Nope, nothing is necessary but food/water/shelter.
Is it necessary that it's removed from steam?
I get that you don't like this, but you won't even see it unless you enabled nudity or join a discussion about it on steamgifts lol.
You're not gonna buy it, I'm not gonna buy it, most people that DO buy it will refund it..
Not really a big deal. Don't watch tv shows you don't like, don't buy games you don't like, right?
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I expects parents to do their job. If they can't manage the accounts of kids. The kids don't deserve the access.. Or parents shouldn't have right to have kids...
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I get your point but it's like saying you're cool with Amazon selling drugs because parents should be the ones protecting their kids from it. It's a little nonsensical.
My point is this kind of "game" should not be made available by Steam because they are dangerous. To society as a whole.
But if you prefer advocating castration for people whose children are gaming on Steam, well it's an angle I guess but a little more extreme, no?
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Maybe no amazon, but then again I'm not cool with online drugs sales like alcohol. On other hand I believe that reasonably certified and vetted stores should be able to sell any drugs. Anything less is authoritarian.
What other games are dangerous to society? Should we ban all games promoting violent conflicts? Strategy games? First-person shooters? Fighting games? Some sport titles? Anything people might get ideas that might harm someone? Anything promoting violent ideologies? Where do we stop?
No just moving the children to state run facilities...
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On other hand I believe that reasonably certified and vetted stores should be able to sell any drugs. Anything less is authoritarian.
That's for another debate but I see arguments on both sides of it, for sure.
What other games are dangerous to society? Should we ban all games promoting violent conflicts? Strategy games? First-person shooters? Fighting games? Some sport titles?
I don't know. All I know is that one out of 6 women is likely to be raped at least once in her lifetime. And I don't believe men are born evil or that the Devil made them do it. So it has to come from some place. And if you don't think the media influences the way they see women, you're not looking carefully.
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Sure it degrades the culture having crap like this, but it's not steam's responsibility to uplift the culture.. or raise your children.
As a platform they're supposed to provide content, you can filter or not purchase content you don't like.
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By your words I guess you don't have kids. What kind of software must come to steam you think it's not ok anymore? Steam shouldn't be a place for this ugly, perverted shit
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Children don't deserve access to Steam if it means that other people are unable to have content there... Steam should be place for all sorts of content. If children are reason not to have it there it's much better to remove the children than the content.
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Wow, I'm shocked. Btw. my kids don't have access to steam. Every content? Really? Sorry, I can't get your point.. it's just ugly for me. This game is also about kicking babies and drown them after that. If you think steam is the right place for such content I just ask myself what's wrong with you (and everybody else including steam who supports this)
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Steam is right place for all sorts of contents. Sometimes I wonder where would those who want to limit things draw the line. As any content can be seen as harmful...
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I have 3 kids and if they are gaming I expect from a serious gaming store to protect them from this unhuman piece of shit.
and
Btw. my kids don't have access to steam
What I'm missing here?
Do you want a store be a nanny for you "protect them" when they don't even use it?
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Lol yes, seems contradictory.
Seems like there's no problem.. if he already blocked access to steam, what's the issue with having crap like this on steam?
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If you haven heard of GOG, I suggest you look into them. Apart from serious curation from them, your games are DRM-Free which means you can install in every comp or laptop you own without having the need of using the Client even. If you're looking for achievements though you do need to run the client. Also you'll lots of titles that you might have played when you're younger. Cheers~
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I don't think rape deserves the special treatment it gets regarding representation in media. For decades gamers have been facepalming at the idiots who try to ban violent video games, yet as soon as a game with rape is released many of the former start acting like the latter. Rape is terrible, but it isn't some special level of heinous act. If other things that are utterly horrible in real life are completely fine in games, so should rape. Hypocrisy is an indefensible position.
On the other hand, I can understand the position of those who oppose it because it's generally targeted at women and perpetuates objectification and misogyny. I'm all for persecuting games and other media that promote hatred and discrimination in real life. Like that game with the brazilian Trump candidate going around killing minorities. That's the sort of thing that should get the creator a few years in prison. But I'm not quite convinced generic rape falls in that category.
To compare with violence again, if generic rape is to be considered promoting violence against women, then generic murder must be considered promoting violence against men, as the majority of shooters and other violent action games have the player kill numerous male enemies who are objectified as disposable warriors. It can easily be argued this has real life implications in perpetuating the gender stereotype that men should always be ready to rush into danger and give up their lives to protect others, and that it's natural for high-risk occupations to be male-dominated. Which in turn assigns women the role of passive victims, which itself could be argued contributes to rape, as women are conditioned into not fighting even though statistically that's the best way to respond to a rape attempt.
What's more, if you oppose rape in media because of its effect on women, but don't oppose murder despite its effect on men, you give ammo to the anti-feminists whose mantra is that feminists want special treatment for women, not gender equality.
Also, if rape is present in a work for the purpose of sexual gratification, it should definitely be allowed, as kink-shaming is one of the dumbest things humans do. If a person has a rape fetish, denying them fapping material is most assuredly not going to decrease the chance of them trying to fulfill their needs in real life. Quite the opposite.
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That brazillian game was sarcastic. As the name Bolsomito (Bolsonaro + mito) or in english "The Myth of Bolsonaro". What happened was that some people were crazy thinking that the guy would really kill people you called "minorities". Someone thought that would be fun making a game that the actual president really turned into a brawler and beat them up. Of course the rumors were exaggerated, no one is crazy enough to do that without loosing presidency. The game was a bad joke with some people's unfounded fears.
I'm not a fan of the actual president, but lets see if he does something good at least.
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What's more, if you oppose rape in media because of its effect on women, but don't oppose murder despite its effect on men, you give ammo to the anti-feminists whose mantra is that feminists want special treatment for women, not gender equality.
I unfortunately don't have a lot of time to reply in full length right now but what you conveniently seem to have forgotten is that most murderers / killers are men, and most of rapists are men too. So you've got men killing men vs men raping women. Hardly comparable.
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Myth #1: She doesn’t exist. It’s understandable that the average person isn’t up to speed on female serial killers. However, those who should know better often don’t. However, as late as 1998, for example, a well-known FBI profiler stated, “There are no female serial killers.” He was wrong.
Reality: The vast majority of murders in the United States are committed by men, and that includes serial murders.; approximately 17 percent of all serial homicides in the U.S. are committed by women. Interestingly, only 10 percent of total murders in the U.S. are committed by women indicating that, compared to men, women represent a larger percentage of serial murders than of any other kind of homicide in the U.S. So, statistically speaking, there are more women in the “serial killer” group than there are in the “killed someone in a bar fight” group or “I beat my spouse to death” cohort. Given the fact that female serial killers tend to get away with their crimes longer, and to kill more victims, suggests that this is a group that deserves some much-needed attention – and detection.
And
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Men are raped more than women, and men only report their rape half as much as women.
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On the other hand, I can understand the position of those who oppose it because it's generally targeted at women and perpetuates objectification and misogyny.
Yep. I honestly would have less of a problem with the game if the player could also choose to rape men. Then, it would be another problem entirely but as it stands it's nothing but commercialized misogyny. If it wasn't only women, the entire issue of objectification would be almost non-existent.
Also, if rape is present in a work for the purpose of sexual gratification, it should definitely be allowed, as kink-shaming is one of the dumbest things humans do. If a person has a rape fetish, denying them fapping material is most assuredly not going to decrease the chance of them trying to fulfill their needs in real life. Quite the opposite.
There is porn for that, in more appropriate venues I think. Also, while there is no evidence that violent games make people more violent, there is also no evidence that porn makes people less inclined to rape. If anything, it increases the objectification of the subject of fantasy, making it more likely to act on it.
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You posted so many replies that is exactly what I'm also thinking, thank you! I am too lazy to argue and it took a long time to formulate where my actual line and arguments were. In fact I would give you double hearts for your work! ... all the thinking about this topic has made me a bit crazy. When I type my thoughts, my words seem to fail to do justice to the points I am trying to convey.
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Yeah it's a complex topic, for sure. Lots of issues tie up into it. I had to step away from it a bit too. Too much ruminating about these things lead to massive headache. You can make yourself physically and emotionally sick thinking all of it through.
Thanks for dropping a note though. I'm glad you found some of yourself in my words.
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It's a touchy subject. It's justified to be angry about this game. But I personally think people's morals have to be kind of twisted if they're fine with the torture and mass murder in GTA 5 and the violent gory deaths in games like DOOM, Hatred, Postal, Mafia 3, Hotline Miami and so on.
People seem to also be fine with Huniepop, which literally has you stalking women and fucking them one by one to claim them as conquest, with the conquest's trophy being their used underwear. Or is that type of sexual shit fine because it's candy coated and the soundtrack happy and fun?
I think it's actually completely fine. Whether I think it belongs on Steam necessarily is a different thing though. But say it doesn't belong on Steam, then where do we draw the line? Rape? Well, good bye to Hotline Miami 2 then. Maybe sexual situations? Well, The Witcher 2/3, Huniepop, GTA IV & V and so on will be out as well.
I'd rather have this type of shit than actual rapes. If anything, there's probably a helping effect to those types of psychos that actually want to do it. I don't think these games will lead to any issues, unless someone wants to be brave enough to be so backwards as to say that video games cause violence again.
Personally, I think it's fine as a title. Just because you play a game that depicts some taboo subjects like sex, violence, drugs or whatever else, doesn't mean that you're actually going to do it.
I haven't really seen any good arguments other than some moral objections. But moral objections should never truly influence these types of things. If your morals don't kick in when you decapitate people and riddle people with holes and do kick in when a rape happens, then that just shows you're morally quite bankrupt.
I'd genuinely like to hear something more rational than "It's indecent and people fall victim to this" because those arguments are everywhere for almost everything.
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I've spend a lot of time playing hatred and postal.
Obviously it turned me into murderer.
I'm not a rapist only because I haven't played this game yet.
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This game makes me really uncomfortable. In most games where you kill "people", they are enemies. The situations force you to defend yourself. It's kill or be killed.
Rape is absolutely gratuitous. Rapists do it because they want to, not because they have to.
All games where you can mass murder people (not just enemies), you can also choose not to and the game can still be enjoyed like any other. This not the case with this game.
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Well said. It's a matter of context more than anything else. And most games where the ultimate goal is body count are multiplayer.
Is this game going to provide a multiplayer where people rape each other, men and women alike? I highly doubt it.
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Perfectly said. Honestly it's kinda alarming how many just compare the two and come to the conclusion that it's essentially the same thing. Thank you.
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Literally just change the name then it's just your average h-game. Also if you're okay playing violent games where you can murder anyone you want then you can't complain about this crap.
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It's just a fetish, for some reason the Japanese seem to particularly enjoy the "rape" category (a lot of Japanese porn is rape related or somehow the female has to look distressed and not enjoying sex, or be bounded and gagged). As long as nobody is harmed and it's consensual it is a bit creepy (personal opinion) but not illegal, just like BDSM or (fake) incest.
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In any case.. it does not belong on steam. There is enough shit floating on this platform. 🚫
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I agree. Not based on content, but on quality which is evident just by looking at it...
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Valve, it seems, is squeamish enough about the word "rape" to automatically censor any comments that use it, regardless of context, even as it fails to apply those same restrictions to games that seek to glorify sexual violence.
Valve at its finest.
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sometimes people seems to take something more personally than it should
i mean in rape porn video, its just an actress acting their part and people fine with it
and this particulary is just a game....not even real and there's no real human involved in it....
whether this should be on steam or not though is a thing worth discussing
and i really thought valve shouldn't let porn game in their store in the first place, it's making people blown things up out of proportion just like this, which in turn would affect all other genuine games.
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Games could be about rape, as movies can be about rape. Irreversible is an honest movie about rape, as Roger Ebert said "It does not exploit. It does not pander."
Games could be about anything. Bastion for example, have a very interesting take on genocide.
This is just fetish porn with a game mechanic. I think it shouldn't be compared with actual games.
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Yeah, you can just not buy it.
Also, this is filtered by default. You have to change settings to even see this game.
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And don't forget baby killing.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/985210/announcements/detail/1750116176684485248
If this game would adress the whole rape discussion in a more appropriate way/setting then it would be a whole different discussion then the way it's done now (possible asset flipping), controversy of a baby getting killed, the multitude of nude images and that's what's gonna sell this game on nudity, the same with that game with all those nude women in a dungeon, and that what makes it disgusting.
In some soap operas rapists got redeemed, got a family and went on like nothing happened.
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Whoever made that game has some serious issues.. Wtf is wrong with people.
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They probably think that their speech won't be censored one day... Or they won't be branded...
Fools, all of them...
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Not really in line with "free speech" but basically.. censoring something because it offends YOU, can't be tolerated.
Way too subjective, impossible to put in legislation, easily abused to silence opposing opinions.
So yes, you get shit like this. But you also can do/say whatever you like as well.
This dev is going to make like $1k MAYBE from the "meme" purchases, likely most of them will be refunded anyway so he might not make that.
I'm almost positive the "game" doesn't have 2 hours of content, so people who buy it can flip through it.. jerk off I guess, then refund.
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The dev has stated that it would only take about an hour for most people to complete the game. So not much content to it really. Be easy for people to play through it if they want then refund it.
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" Its contents include "violence, sexual assault, non-consensual sex, obscene language, necrophilia, and incest."
Yay a game that allows Necrophilia.
Devil's advocate: "Seriously though. It is a game. It's been proven time and time again that a game does not make someone more likely to do what they do in the game."
On the other side of the coin. I am not going to play it. Sounds like a really bad game.
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Lol yes, it looks like complete garbage. People were saying it's just asset flipping too, likely a lot of images with misspelled text over it pretending to be a game. Really hard to make something like this last for more than 2 hours, so I imagine the refunds will be very high.
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Just read this article and I'm honestly disappointed/shocked by Steam's no content control. But to each their own.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-03-04-valve-under-fire-as-sexually-explicit-game-glorifying-rape-is-listed-on-steam
Thoughts?
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