Strong language and sexual themes do not, by themselves, make for better games.
They're just storytelling elements. The question in this thread's title is not unlike asking whether having a grandstanding villain or having a hero turn traitor is by itself a good thing in a story.
The answer: it all depends on how it's used.
In FFVII, Barret Wallace's cussing is a pretty integral part of his personality. On the other hand, if you write TF2's Spy a lot of lines involving bad language, that wouldn't serve well the theme of his childish superiority complex.
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I can see your point and agree that they are story telling elements.
It seems thought that they are becoming default elements rather than chosen perfectly for the job from all the available story telling elements. Know what I mean? It makes it all so boring, cheap, been there done that, etc.
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The only instance in recent times that I've felt that maybe the language/sexual themes were out of place or unnecessary was in Arkham City; the male inmates' misogynistic dialogue referring to Catwoman/Poison Ivy made me feel uncomfortable in places. As a story-telling element, it fits completely; I'd wager that the inmates of most high-security prisons would be much worse, but it still grated.
That's all I can remember anyway. Do you have any specific examples of times where strong language/sexual themes have been used/misused/overused in games? Just skimming my games list I'm having a hard time picking out any...
[EDIT] Oh yeah...GTA & Saints Row I suppose :) What others though?
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Fallout 2 especially, first part was a bit censored. So you have there everything: drugs, violence, black humor,sex (even selling yourself), slavery, stealing graves etc, etc. If you ask me it wasn't overused a bit nor misused. Fit for this world very well and if you don't want to see or participate in some of those you can avoid these elements or even fight with them
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The gaming industry at the moment is going through a Hollywood phase where generally, throughout the populace, violence and sexual themes drive the sales. Violence & sex are a part of human nature, and such videogames successfully rid the erges that we have as human beings. In a way, we all want to "kill" someone, just as much as we have the drive to have sex (and reproduce) and videogames enable us to do such in a way/form. They stimulate us. The things that stop us from giving into such primal erges are the laws and society today. Morality is inbuilt via experience, and experience in todays world is that "killing is wrong" and the obvious "rudeness" that is associated with sex states that its a topic thats for behind closed doors. The former I'm sure all will agree here (sex in society is more free now-a-days and many accept it as such). We only see killing someone as a necessity in certain situations, and War is a prime example. Therefore, Call of Duty gives us the ablity to fill in primal erges without feeling guity or being punished for it. The same way many watch porn to release sexual drive without actually having sex. This is why games without violence of any kind are an aquired taste, and that there is almost no market for them - what else appeals to the general populace other than primal erges etc?
This is where story is important. Stories interest and take our attention. However, different people have different attention spans and different interests. That is why, for example, if you had a story driven game about elves and their struggle to build a chimney and it was an Oscar worthy story, the people who would play it would be a serious minority to the masses that play CoD etc - because they do not care about such, while the violence and sex appeals to most.
Now, here is where people say "but I hate CoD and all games with violence and sex". This is either 1) a lie, 2) you get such erges forfilled elsewhere (movies, tv, life) or 3) you have been unaffected by society and parenting and therefore are more likely to be a sociopath. You'll probably end up a serial killer.
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Believe it or not I read the whole thing and I agree
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Exactly. You escape the restraints of the real world by exploring an alternate reality that helps you fulfill subconcious urges (primal urges, that are proven to exist). An element of such affects how much you have fun and are entertained. They influence one another - and it is why you favour certain things over certain things. Sure, my explanation is only a brief summary and round-up and doesn't cover all the points, but it is the base of a much large hypothesis.
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Hmm... I believe that you're being over-simplistic with your conclusion.
Example of a typically non-violent genre: Puzzle games
Puzzle games generally don't involve any kind violence, foul language or sexual imagery (with some exceptions, such as Catherine; which I find to be well done, but that's not the point), yet they still manage to get a slice of the market.
Braid is a perfect example of this (excluding the single bad word used for historical reference's sake) by having engaging puzzle elements, fun gameplay, beautiful art-style, an excellent soundtrack and a provocative story.
Another example: Point-and-click adventure games
That genre died after the year 2000, but now is slowly trying to rise from its ashes. That kind of genre is, more often than not, focused on narrating a funny or dramatic story in a style half-way between a movie and a book. Memorable games, such as Monkey Island, didn't need to be sexually explicit or foul-mouthed to sell.
Anyway, aside from all I just said, your wall of text did not properly reply to QuintSakugarne's point or answer the OP's original question "does strong language and/or sexual themes make better games?" What you did was justify what gaming has become without questioning it.
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It's hard to recommend because it's an odd game. The puzzle gameplay is fun, but the controls and camera can cause for many frustrating moments. The story is great, but the first half of the game suffers because it seems your actions don't quite matter. The game isn't very long and most people don't enjoy the gameplay enough to try harder difficulties or do the challenge stages.
Despite all this I beat it in like 2 days and absolutely loved it. Same could happen to you, but it takes a specific kind of person to truly enjoy what Catherine has to offer.
And yeah, I used to be involved with a girl named Catherin. It didn't end well. Gave the game an extra element of wtf?
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I would say it changes the mood of the game. thus it depends on the game.
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Not better, but more mature, and that appeals a lot more for me
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Well I should have written a bit more. What I'm trying to say is that I prefer a more mature game that actually uses sex and violence as resources without abusing them, rather than playing a "childish" game.
The best example for this could be The Sims series. Yes, a so called life simulator, but very cut and censored. You never see actual sex or violence there, even if the characters actually do some mentioned stuff, it's portrayed in a way that every person can play it without getting offended.
Another example could be the GTA series, the nยบ 1 offender in gaming. Some games of the series are more mature than others, but overall is the kind of world in which we actually live, and that's why people like it.
Now on the other hand, Saints Row The Third is the perfect example where the violence and jokes are overused in such way that could remind us of the worst action movies ever, but it is so fun that you can't stop playing it until the end.
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I think it doesnt help with gameplay but by making the story more believable or taken more seriously since you can understand the emotions a bit better the producer is trying to portray.
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These two things add flavour. A good example would be Bulletstorm.
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Yeah, I thought RDBruski presented his question in a pretty liberal manner.
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It honestly depends on how it's handled. Violence and sex and language for its own sake is rarely good, but if it's handled maturely (or immaturely, if it's a good parody/satire), then it can be an integral part of the game, whether it's everywhere or if it's only once every thousand lines. Generalising here, but biking game with bare breasts everywhere just to sell? Bad. Swearing as the world around you is blowing up? Good.
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Depends on the game.
Batman with no violence = probably a bad game (definitely a different game)
Mario with sexual themes = probably a bad game... maybe....
Tetris with violence... different, but not necessarily better or worse.
To be honest, I can't think of any games where sexual themes really make a better game (Mass Effect and Witcher don't need it to be a solid game (I think... I've yet to go through ME2 and ME3)), but I don't doubt that there are games out there that would be terrible without it, much as removing that element from a movie like "Closer" would render it pointless.
(also, after reading replies here, I missed that you said "strong language" and not "violence")
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Wierd, maybe that point of view is a byproduct of starting with Zork, I did as well and feel the same way. Pretty much.
It really depends on how it's used and while many people don't care how, when, where or how much, for me it can be problematic to the story. For example I'm playing Hard Reset right now. It's been fun but the dialogue is wearing on me since the main character has no gauge on how he speaks. In serious trouble, fbomb, in an ok situation, fbomb, minor inconvenience, fbomb, found a penny, fbomb. When he or anyone uses the same language in any situation starts to become meaningless and I start to not care what he says. It could be the same for any word. That's why I hate Jar Jar Binks. But the importance of the story is something that's changing in the new gen of games, they've found most new gamers today skip dialogue and cut-scenes entirely.
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No. I prefer fun colourful family friendly games, where I can compare achievements or in game skills with my family members. Some blood and gore are accepted.
Sexual theme with uncensored content hinders me from playing that game, because the location of my pc in the living room. But seriously, if I'm looking for sexual content in game, I'll probably will buy some eroge or just straight to porn sites. I wish there's an option in The Witcher for censoring the sex scenes and tits. Maybe I will writie an email to CD Projekt about this.
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Of course they don't make a better game. They sure make a different game, though. Like everyone else said: It's a design decision. Sometimes it becomes a marketing decision; that usually means the game will manage the rare feat of sucking and blowing at the same time.
Also: I disagree that violence is the main reason to play games. I love Point and Click Adventures, I love Civilization (and Colonization) and I love the Portal series. I'm a sucker for a well told narrative; presenting violence is not important, the story as a whole is. I also like optimizing stuff, so that's my love for Civ/Col right there ;)
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Strong language is useful in some games to give it the right feeling. Sometimes you need it to get the atmosphere that fits to the game. It doesn't improve the game itself, but I think it is needed in some games. And since the atmosphere is a very important thing in video games, they can improve the game, but they don't always do.
Sexual themes are not needed in a game. They don't improve the atmosphere in any way and if I want to see some, I can always type specific things in my browser.
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Watch the Devil May Cry boss trailer. The first 1:20, for me it totally ruins the whole thing. Way over the top and pretty childish in the way they've used strong language... My opinion is if there is strong language and/or sexual content in the game, it has to actually fit in with the story and atmosphere.
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I think therein lies the art of making games. Why throw in sex just for the fun of it? If it doesn't fit the context, it's pointless. Same goes for strong language or violence. For example, look at the ridiculous trailer for the new Devil May Cry game. It looks stupid because it misrepresents Dante. Sex and perverse language are becoming more of a daily part of life, so instances of these in games do reflect the times, but if it doesn't fit the context, it's just silly and puts the artist in a poor light.
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And the games really aren't... but really when you get down to it, that IS what they are about -- just not in a blatant way.
A counter example would be something like Battletoads; you play through the entire game to rescue someone, just like Mario, but it's not the character's love interest, it's their best friend.
Sex and violence are everywhere, in real life and in all forms of media, as far back as recorded history. I think the prudish nature of the media in the US when it comes to sex and the human body does more to harm us than anything. Especially when contrasted against the love of violence and gore.
It was brought up semi recently, you can show a news report of riots where someone gets their head bashed in on the evening news, but a mother breastfeeding her child is a big no-no.
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Well, in my opinion it depends.
Forcing it in the game every 5 seconds is stupid.
But being a hypocrite and avoiding it at all costs even when it could fit is kinda lame too, imo anyway.
So I think it makes the game better if it's in the right places - if it's not forced into the game, if it's only there when it fits, and as long as it's in the right amounts (not too much).
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it very depends on the setting. a battlefield or call of duty doesn't need sexual themed elements. strong language depends of the social background of the man/woman. upper classes usually don't use foul language (in some cases maybe). some lower classes or in certain social environments a strong language is more common. so in GTA san andreas the language would fit. in brutal games like manhunt it could be even authentic if you could cut of arms and legs but this kind of feature should be only in high violence games.
the famous airport mission in modern warfare 2 can be seen as a normal mission where you shoot people but doesn't fit into the game at all. also that scene in MW3 with the family. it has absolutely no connections to the rest of the game so it's useless.
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I'm an old time gamer. Probably gamed longer than almost anyone there. My gaming experience started with Zork 1 on the original IMB PC XT back in 1980 or '81. Anyway, over the years more and more strong language and sexual themes are being included in games ratings. Although I'm against both of them, my question isn't about the morals of them.
My question is, does strong language and/or sexual themes make better games? I contend they don't. I contend this point of view on movies, TV shows, comics etc.
I guess you can argue that for a war type game that strong language is fitting and representative of real life. But does it make a BETTER GAME?
I'm very interested in your opinion and point of view. Thanks for your replies.
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