How do you feel about EA's decision?
They reduced the needed credit cost but what about earnable credit? Will they reduce that too or? I wish SW: BF2 would be great game but I don't think EA will give up all the sweet microtransaction money.
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Wow you guys still on about this even after it goes from 60k to 15k... why dont they just give everything to you and max level when you buy the game so you dont have to play it LUL
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I really did prefer playing multiplayer games back when you did not have to unlock things. Had loads of fun in games like Unreal Tournament, Quake and such. Once you had to start to grind for unlocks I just kinda lost interest. So yes, give me everything when I buy the game, and let me just focus on finding the playstyle that works best for me, don't make the game a chore!
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most of this unlock thing is pay to win too that why I don't buy online game anymore
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i think progression is very important for a multiplayer game. it kept me going in battlefiel 2 and 3, for instance. it is an additional motivation beside the gameplay itself. i wouldn't want to miss it.
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I think it works if it is sidegrades. Unlock things different but not more powerful.
The thing about EA is unlocks are straight up upgrades giving you an edge over players who play/pay little regardless of skill
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i didn't talk about battlefront. it was about progression systems in general. there are good ones and bad ones, of course. but the bad ones don't illegitimate the good ones.
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Would a good middle ground then not bake the progression system predominantly cosmetic? Unlock new skins, emotes and such, but keep anything that might influence the game balance directly (i.e. anything that has a gameplay effect) unlocked from the get-go.
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sure, that would be alright. but i honestly don't see a problem with unlocking gameplay-relevant stuff, as long as it doesn't completely break balance. look at battlefield 2 or 3. yes, you unlock new weapons. but the advantage is not that big. new players have no problem getting first successes. and you have something worthwile to work on (because i personally don't give a shit about cosmetics). something like this, with a star wars skin, would have been the battlefront i was hoping for.
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Yeah, but nowadays they want to have something to sell, so they do upgrades + sell cosmetics and "time savers"
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Oh yes, the good old days, that was so much fun and no unlocks necessary. If you wanted a weapon, you just killed the guy carrying it :)
Miss Quake 3 and Unreal T, great memories.
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A game shouldn't need an unlock system to keep players interested, if the game is inherently good.
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irrelevant. the question is rather if it should not have one. if it hurts the game or potentially makes it better.
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People payed 60, 80, etc. euros, JUST to have every single hero LOCKED. Fuck that.
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I look it at another angle. People paid 60-120 dollars for a product they wanted to use. But large chunks of the content are inherently locked for them and they cannot use it unless they either invest more money or a lot of their time.
Strangely, before this unlock craze, multiplayer games still thrived. Heck, they required something called "skill" to win, instead of grinding out better characters and equipment that easily made their gameplay superior to those who decided to not throw additional money at the game.
And the general public seems to agree on that, because grindfest games like these die out in a year or two, but games with only cosmetic unlock system like Russian Language Course: Global Offensive and Overcopy of Team Fortress still have a large and thriving plebs playerbase.
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I look it at another angle. People paid 60-120 dollars for a product they wanted to use. But large chunks of the content are inherently locked for them and they cannot use it unless they either invest more money or a lot of their time.
that's a strange way to look at a progression system. this is the argument against dlc and microtransactions. but a progression system? apply the same logic to a singleplayer game and it doesn't make sense at all. we have to play level 1 before we can see level 2. we have to finish the game before we can play the ultra high difficulty. we have to beat that boss in level 8 before we get the rocket launcher. that's all fine, and i think wre can apply the same to mp games. progression wasn't bad in battlefield 2, long before microtransactions existed. people loved it. i may not like microtransactions and lootboxes. but i like progression. and i think many people do. you say those games die out quickly. that may be true. but games without progression die out just as fast. quake was mentioned. TB made a video about this a while ago. those arena shooters with just gameplay, no progression - most of them are completey unsuccessful. even quake live has laughably small player counts compared to the games you guys call dead here. the smaller ones are even below that...
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Hm, I cannot recall any single-player game ever since Capcom stopped doing disc-locked content where I couldn't play everything in the entire game after maybe one or two campaign play throughs. How much does two campaign clears get us in Battlefront II? Oh yes, a quarter price of a hero. Of many. Last time I checked, before Shadow of War, this amount of grinding in single-player games were only mandatory for either the secret bosses or some arbitrary equipment. Even grindfest games like Diablo unlock their entire content easier and faster, and for free.
So no, this is not a progression system in Battlefront II, this is a thinly veiled disc-locked content, especially since levelup is tied to random drops instead of playing the game.
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If the progression system was something like "kill XX using xx character" or doing some side missions in various game modes, it would make sense for an MP shooter. But this is stalling progression by requiring you to grind credits to unlock characters just for the sole purpose of being able to use them. You're literally just farming and not trying to achieve anything aside from storing credits.
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i don't know why nobody understands this. i was talking generally. i was not talking about battlefron. and i sure as hell was not defending battlefront's progression system. people here started to argue against progression systems in general, and that is what i was trying to answer.
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The golden age of multiplayer games came and passed a long time ago T.T where skill determined everything instead of money/time spent.
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This was meant to be @talgaby but doesnt look like it is o.0
This make no sense as this is how every game in the world works... other then junk unreal turny maybe but that isnt really a full game so it doesnt count to me(also i dont like that game :D)
You know to unlock heroes on League of Legends it takes upwards of a week per hero? (at least the highest costing ones)
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You know to unlock heroes on League of Legends it takes upwards of a week per hero?
Maybe, but LoL isn't really a game but rather a misery simulator for little kids hell-bent to become the next Jam Bam Jingelam Jr. (world-renowned Ultimate Frisbee Pro) so it doesn't really count.
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And yet its always in the top 3? games with the most viewers (and streamers?) on twitch/steam charts
(not saying i like LoL and i dont play it anymore)
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Popularity isn't a good indicator of quality. Just look at Call of Duty or Justin Bieber.
By the way if I'm not mistaken what I just did is called Reductio ad absurdum. I was trying to show you the fallacy of your own UT argument by employing the same argument.
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Does it really need to be of quality if people like it and play it?
I think league counts as a game since it has more to do
Unreal is like a game where you jump on for 5mins kill some people then leave to me and it was mostly used as something other then just a game theres nothing to unlock no goals no achievements its just jump in and random kill people (as far as i remember maybe this changed)
Quake also feels pretty bad but i never really gave it a shot either since it felt so bad i just couldnt play it for that long
League has unlocks game modes masteries etc
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When the gameplay itself is fun a game doesn't need to rely on exterior motivation factors like achievements, unlocks, leaderboards and Trading cards.
Not that I'm particularly passionate about UT. Actually I've barely played it.
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Add salt to wound, EA community manager called the outraged players "armchair developers".
https://wccftech.com/star-wars-battlefront-ii-armchair-devs/
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And that's why smart companies have a PR department.
Reminds me of that Xbox One guys "Deal with it" comment which ultimately cost him his job
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Apparently, he didn't.
That tweet was addressing a different situation, reddit just felt identified.
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I wonder will this be similar to how Rainbow Six Siege was, where there was free DLC (well you have to pay for season 2 I think?) but you had to either grind for the operators or you could buy the points to get the operators right away and last I checked that game was really popular... I never bought it since wasn't big on the online-only game.
I think nowadays every game is going the microtransaction route, just look at the singleplayer only game Shadow of War, I was looking forward to it, but that game has lootboxes and microtransactions as well.
If I buy that, I might just buy it pre-owned on my console, if I buy it all.
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Mandatory progression in everything was a mistake. I remember having a ton of fun playing Unreal Tournament for sheer gameplay and not because I kept unlocking more of the game. Core gameplay loop is the key.
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Well, it's easier (and probably more profitable) to make a game with tons of unlockable stuff to keep the players than making an actual good game.
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Right now it takes ages to earn credits and doesn't differ skill wise. The changes that will be announced up until release (which will hopefully be good and beneficial changes) will decide purchases for many people including myself.
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Change is a strong word. I prefer "Adjust." This is EA after all, they like testing the waters to see what they can pull over their customer's heads. Honestly it won't stop until people just stop supporting them financially and go support the good games made by respectable developers. There are plenty of them, but some people like their fix and old drawn out and overdone series I suppose. Nostalgia maybe, hoping the games they loved in the past made new will magically change from the pitiful excuse it is now to something better. Saving you time, as long as you continue to buy it; No, it won't.
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if the original SWBF2 was remastered, and I don't mean a crappy HD remake I mean a full on sexy looking detailed remake with fixes to bugs and such, that would be huge. Having micro transactions for cosmetic customization (not crazy over the top because it's been said that cosmetics if ever introduced have to have boundaries in the SW universe) would also fuel free DLC (new maps, weapons, etc.)
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"would also fuel free DLC" -> "COULD also fuel free DLC" This is EA, they will find some way of making it a scummy practice, probably unrealistic grind related or they will release a few insignificant "DLC" like 1 map or character, with expansions and other actual major sized DLC that you'd actually care about costing major bucks.
Remember: Just because money made by Microtransactions COULD go to fueling new "Free" DLC doesnt mean it will. EA's past actions certainly do not bode well.
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Yea that's true. There is a promising game coming out this year or early next someone told me about I don't even remember what it is, but it's a AAA I believe and will have free DLC and content with 0 micro transactions. If I remember it I'll edit this.
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Anything Star Wars that is not from Lucas or Lucas Arts is NOT Star Wars.
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The previous Reddit record for negative Karma on a reply was -24000ish until today's EA Community Manager explanation shattering that record with a massive -589,000 Karma and climbing (or dropping...?). I checked this afternoon it was -300k, then right before I ran to the store it was -560k, now its -589k. EA Committed PR Suicide Today
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And that 24K olderish one had so many because it ASKED for those dislikes.
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So, they have over half million angry potential customers.
I mean, whenever Bethesda finally achieves its secret goal and claws its way to be the absolute shittiest, greediest, immoral fuckball publisher on the planet, EA comes along and says "hey, I can top it!". And here goes half a decade of building their image back, winning fans and players, and finally moving from the most hated status… down the drain.
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And it looks like its still P2W even after EA backed down a little bit with that shit.
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Ofcourse it is, if it wasnt, there would be 0 incentive to buy the loot boxes.
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Funny thing. Beating the campaign previously had a reward of 20,000 credits. It has now been shifted down to 5,000 credits.
-_-
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Yeah, they promised to lower credit costs for heroes, and did so by 75%!
They just didnt mention they lowered the amount of credits you are rewarded too ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
"This should, theoretically make the heroes much easier to unlock"
Im not sure who made that theory... but I bet it's in some of those abstract physics BS that you see when you're near the event horizon of a black hole.
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completing the campaing was always meant to award you enough credits to buy Iden Versio and since she now costs 5000, you get 5000. all the other rewards stayed the same from what i heard
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You would think a campaign dedicated to the loyalists of the empire would unlock Vader upon completion
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EA and Dice are just trying to control the blowback they had for the beta. Their only goal is to make as much money from their game as they can and then some. And it seems there is no limit to what they are willing to do for that money.
The respect for their player base and making the best game they possibly can are no longer priorities for triple A publishers. You try to hype it as much as possible, make some crowd control on the critics and then milk it as hard as you can, before you completely abandon your product.
It doesn't really affect me directly because I don't usually play triple A games at launch (if ever), and do not like multiplayer games but I honestly can't wait for this new trend to blow up on the face of triple A gaming... I'm sure they'll blame gamers then.
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I was thinking more on the lines of the videogame crash of 1983... not as bad, of course, since videogames are now an established part of society.
It's inevitable that some of these games are going to flop hard and big companies betting everything on a microtransaction selling horse will not know what to do then.
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True... sometimes they act as if they were better off without us :D
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To be fair, they'd probably prefer it if there weren't any gamers at all. After all they only seem to be interested in "whales" and "dolphins" nowadays. I'm not saying that aquatic mammals can't make good gamers, just that they're probably a lot rarer- fins probably make it hard to use any gaming control scheme.
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then again, if you can't properly control a game you'll probably pay more to get ahead... it seems they have it all figured out :D
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I'm happy this doesnt apply to all EA games
Goes back to Battlefield 1
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All of this will mean nothing and be forgotten in 3 months after launch.
90%+ of the Reddit ragers and outraged Tweeters on Twitter will buy the game either at launch or when it gets discounted near The Last Jedi's release.
Your average dad, mom, grandpa, grandma, casual gamer etc has no clue any of this is even happening. They might watch the launch trailer on YouTube at the most, see it in the store, and buy it as a holiday gift because it says Star Wars on it.
I don't mean to sound overly pessimistic but it's the honest truth about what will happen. This game will come out and make a metric shit ton of money, and the microtransactions will only get worse, because people just can't resist playing the hot new Star Wars game (the 3 studios actually made a good game buried underneath all of this EA/Disney filth)
Gamers are all bark, and no bite. It reminds me of this lol
https://kotaku.com/5403286/what-modern-warfare-2-boycotters-are-playing
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I'll buy it in December when it goes on sale. I played in the beta and the Play First Trial and i freaking loved the game but i can't pay full price for a game with lootboxes, i won't.
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Just because you reduce the size of a turd by 75%, doesn't make it less of a turd.
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Fuck EA. Look at Need for Speed Paywall.
Cant wait for Titanfallen 3: The War of Lootboxes
Fuck EA.
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I miss the "I couldn't possibly give a fuck" option.
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Oldschool tactics to manipulate perception and acceptance.
Its the same core principle behind people buying more of a 50%off 60 dollar product then a 30 dollar one. Very common in politics, changes that are know to have a backlash are announced way heavier/worse- more then they need or expect to.
Then you wait complains... then you 'concede' to peoples pledges and 'reduce'...
For most peoples perceptions things got better, they had a impact, they were listened.
In reality they're getting what they want, a system that shouldn't even be there.
**Actually its better tactic overall: most often doing so you end up getting more then expected; You wouldn't dare increase things a certain amount, but you overdo to progressively cut and in the end its increased above your initial expectation.
About progression... Come on!
Theres kinds and kinds of progression.
Its one thing to unlock a level or higher tier weapon or whatever in some games.
Its another to unlock options.
Imagine if you could unlock each Team Fortress 2 class after 10 hours or whatever.
Sure, thats 'progression' and fair right? Skill and investiment...
BS
Design patterns come to be for a reason; What happens everywhere and even more so in games is applying then wrongly, for the wrong reasons or more commonly very aware faking it.
Its one thing how lvls came to be a thing in tabletop rpgs; Its another so many shooters who added 'progression' getting what previously would be the full range of choices and locking 80% of it behind 'progression'.
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Ok i have to ask this now since im learning that gamers dont like games where you have to unlock things... what games do you guys play then? other then ureal?
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People love unlockables, just so long as they take a reasonable amount of time to get, and don't cost extra money. 10 hours is not reasonable, that's longer then most entire games last.
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10 hours is totally doable if you like and play the game your playing (maybe not for something like single player non RPG) but is this an online FPS
Have you played any online FPS? cause all of them need ranks to unlock things (well not all i guess may use something else)
I would even say 10 hours is a bit small since thats one play session for some people
People who play for 5 hours and quit would never have unlocked them anyways
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Yes I've played online FPS (I've been playing games longer then many people on this site have been alive), I just don't think stuff like this is reasonable: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2017/11/it-will-take-4528-hours-of-gameplay-or-2100-to-unlock-all-base-game-content.html
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Unlocking stuff is great... abilities, playable characters, areas, skins, whatever. It's an important part of metroidvanias, RPGs, racing games, rogue-likes, of gaming in general. We all love it.
The problem is when those don't unlock during the story or by beating some challenge. It's there for you to buy through randomized purchases. It completely breaks the balance of the game (imagine full level characters on RPG, all abilities unlocked on metroidvanias, endgame weapon on FPS) and it becomes a problem when the game is obtuse/grindy/difficult on purpose to maximize sales, not to mention what it can do to a multiplayer community.
I'm all for unlockables and progression but it should be based on skill/achievements and not on money/grind... but that's just my opinion :)
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You dont need these heroes to kill other players as far as i know... also someone said all heroes are unlocked in single player so thats fine
If someone paid money for lootcrates then they should have something over people as that is the point of them and every other cashshop in everygame even if it is cosmetic only
As long as you can buy crates with ingame money and the real money ones dont have really OP stuff (and i dont think BF2 does) its fine to me
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If it doesn't bother you just enjoy the game... that's what games are for and no-one should feel bad for having fun :)
However this new trend to make games a platform for selling intrusive and psychologically abusive microtransactions is not a good one. And it will blow on the face of triple A publishers in the not so far future, I think.
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You know what the funny thing is? People still buy their shit despite these obvious scams from EA and that allows EA to continue fucking the paying customers over. That's why we have a crappy CoD game released every year and with more and more microtransactions each year.
I mean just look at what a mess DLCs have become! You used to be able to buy the game once, a game that developers put all they had in it, and buy the expansion packs after a year or two. Now the developers just cut a few things from the game, release the half assed game, promise to balance and fix every problem with the DLC that's going to be released after 2 or 3 months and costs at least 15 bucks, the players buy the DLC and praise the developers for being so "considerate" and for "listening" to the customers, developers become rich and keep doing it and players stay in denial.
It might sound ignorant but tbh I think these greedy fuckers deserve to have their games pirated.
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So.. I noticed today, the $80 version of SW:BFII is out.... however the $60 ones is NOT until Friday....
They are trying to tempt people to pay $80 who can't wait.
FUCK EA! FUCK THEM!
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No offense but people with such weak will that they can't even wait 2 extra days deserve to be fucked with :D Afterall they are the reason why we are where we are now.
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add please this image to topic: https://gyazo.com/1838cb8594de85ca1269c3353faad3e7 P.S. its not MINE.
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Wouldn't "Buy 5 Lootboxes to pay respect" be more fitting?
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"Press F to buy 5 lootboxes. If you're lucky you'll win respect to pay"
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https://twitter.com/MrProWestie/status/930186431468843009
So what, 10 hours is still retarded to unlock one hero.
This is all part of the plan, give players a major cataclysmic assfucking then replace it with just a plain old violent assfucking when the backlash happens.
It's going to happen every year and in 10 years we are all going to wonder what happened to gaming.
https://gyazo.com/1838cb8594de85ca1269c3353faad3e7
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