Are you gonna take (more) booster shots?
You have a beautiful bar in Google where you can write: "medical errors and misconceptions of the 20th century."
Among them, perhaps the most famous, but not the only ones, are medications that were happily prescribed to pregnant women and caused serious malformations, addiction crisis with antidepressants/painkiller that they tried to hide, the radioactive paint scandal, when the doctors said that tobacco or processed sugar was good under generous pay, etc...
That said, you are talking about more than proven vaccines with antigens, not experimental messenger RNA treatments that contain god knows what because the formulas and contracts with the governement are literally secret.
P.S:
And now while you are at it explain to me how you won 1,069 giveaways with level 4 and your gift ratio. Blacklisted for sure.
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SURE!
No need to go back 200 years, just a couple of bigger cases in the last 20 years:
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I didnt take the vaccine because I already had covid. Noone in my country cares anymore and its bussiness as usual.
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I already lost 3 (young!) friends due to heart attacks, mysteriously shortly ater taking the jab, and one fell into a coma for a month, and had a totally different personality after waking up again. I don't need to take any chances, I'll survive probalby most of you.
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Well, young as I consider it. 25 to 40. Especially the two in their 20's lived a very healthy lifestyle. The one in the coma is in psychological treatment right now, haven't seen her in a year unfortunately. Will have to remedy that soon.
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Given that you apparently hail from a country that most likely has civil processes at least on par with Finland, what you are saying/claiming here is extraordinary, and if true, very alarming. Whenever a young person dies, there's much more scrutiny than when an elderly person dies (but even then there are always processes that will happen). What you are talking about here would be a kind of a cluster, not something that all the people involved could just sweep under the rug.
Are you saying that all these deaths and the coma happened in the same region, and/or within a short period of time? And how long after taking the vaccines? What were the actual ages?
(Edit: I will add my anecdote here. Through my connections I have not heard of a single case of actually bad side effects from vaccines. There have been multiple reports of infection but most have at worst been "like a bad case of flu." I'm fairly certain most (if not all) of these people were vaccinated, although this is something that is usually not mentioned. One elderly person was hospitalized due to covid-19, and he ended up dying soon after.)
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Many people are fine getting the vaccine and subsequent boosters and they believe the vaccines are safe. Unfortunately, more and more are experiencing the other side proving they are not safe.
You can check http://howbadismybatch.info/ for this development.
Some of the batches bring more death and severe side effects than others. When I first started monitoring Pfizer for example, only 5 percent of the batches had 100 percent of death associated with them. Now it is 10 percent which is associated with 90 percent of death. It is still pretty concentrated, but with every batch released, the spread is increasing as well.
This is not taking in account the long term side effects (+5/10/20 years) which is a different beast altogether.
If you live in an area with perfectly safe batches, and everyone you know is therefor fine, you are lucky and will have a skewered representation of what is actually going on.
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I had a horrible reaction (see below) (such that a medical professional castigated me for not getting treatment, but i was scared of being in public--including drs offices/hospitals--at the time), and didn't report to VAERS because i read the fine print as stating that you could get in legal hot water if you didn't state all the facts correctly, and some facts I didn't know.
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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-beast/
Not very trustworthy and a bit too much to the left. Thank you for the link however, we need to be critical about everything.
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i havent gotten any covid vaccine, so definetly no booster for me
lost a very close relative 6 days after he got his 1st pfizer shot, his friend (doctor, who recommended that he gets it) thought that the vaccine was to blame, now he is certain that it is
maybe i dodged a bullet there, maybe not, we may never know for sure, but i m definetly staying away from these
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But the person that received a stroke from AstraZenica (also known very much for having resulted in blood clots) doesn't make you any reluctant? A third world country should be irrelevant.
Could those 3 persons been saved with a covid vaccin being your point, probably. Because the number is higher does that "outweigh" that one person that had a stroke? Personally i would say no. Both are bad.
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Because if you didn't had 3 people around you that died from covid, and just the one person with a stroke hours after it happening you could have had a different opinion in it too, experiences are also a factor on decisions or feelings people get.
Aside from the question with my dad yes or no (i will never get that answer) i did not had anyone close that died from covid, or ended up on the IC. I know people that did get covid, but recovered.
What is your age bracket then?
If you want to believe below's poster, then i would not want to give this to my young kid with 1 to 6000, heck not even 1 on 100000)
And coming from someone that got a genetic heart condition that i could always pass on my children myself (not know those odds)..
"The study by the Ministry of Health in Israel, a country with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, assesses the risk of myocarditis after receiving the 2nd vaccine dose to be between 1 in 3000 to 1 in 6000 in men of age 16–24 and 1 in 120,000 in men under 30".
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Irrelevant to as you made the whole thing up or it's still true?
Things can always be relative, yes i can very well imagine long covid be a bl**p, it's why i also got my 2 vaccins and for my parents.
But i don't know anyone in my surrounding that got long covid, but then again i am not a senior citizen but i am also not hearing the stories atleast in the main stream media, maybe it even differs per country, village even..
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What always struck me as odd is how noone complains about getting vaccinated as a kid against measles, chicken pox etc
Let me answer that:
In 1980, 2.6 million people died from measles,[7] and in 1990, 545,000 died due to the disease; by 2014, global vaccination programs had reduced the number of deaths from measles to 73,000.[21][22] Despite these trends, rates of disease and deaths increased from 2017 to 2019 due to a decrease in immunization
Adverse reactions to vaccination are rare, with fever and pain at the injection site being the most common. Life-threatening adverse reactions occur in less than one per million vaccinations (<0.0001%)
Measles is dangerous and vaccine is safe.
Won't cite wiki on chicken pox, but vaccine is also really safe + disease may cause serious complications. Also scars for life.
Also you don't have to repeat vaccination every 6-8 months to feel safe... And it actually protects you because these viruses aren't changing as fast as coronaviruses.
It is not confirmed, but statistically - there is correlation between heart strokes and vaccinations (data from Israel):
More recently, several studies established probable causal relationship between the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines of BNT162b2 and mRNA-127311,14,15,16 as well as adenovirus (ChAdOx1) vaccines17 with myocarditis, primarily in children, young and middle-age adults. The study by the Ministry of Health in Israel, a country with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, assesses the risk of myocarditis after receiving the 2nd vaccine dose to be between 1 in 3000 to 1 in 6000 in men of age 16–24 and 1 in 120,000 in men under 30
The main finding of this study concerns with increases of over 25% in both the number of CA calls and ACS calls of people in the 16–39 age group during the COVID-19 vaccination rollout in Israel (January–May, 2021), compared with the same period of time in prior years (2019 and 2020), as shown in Table 1. Moreover, there is a robust and statistically significant association between the weekly CA and ACS call counts, and the rates of 1st and 2nd vaccine doses administered to this age group. At the same time there is no observed statistically significant association between COVID-19 infection rates and the CA and ACS call counts. This result is aligned with previous findings which show increases in overall CA incidence were not always associated with higher COVID-19 infections rates at a population level35,49,50, as well as the stability of hospitalization rates related to myocardial infarction throughout the initial COVID-19 wave compared to pre-pandemic baselines in Israel51. These results also are mirrored by a report of increased emergency department visits with cardiovascular complaints during the vaccination rollout in Germany52 as well as increased EMS calls for cardiac incidents in Scotland53.
Recommend to read it all xD But it's really long :) And it's just statistics.
This retrospective population-based study leverages the IEMS data system and analyzes all calls related to CA and ACS events over two and a half years, from January 1st, 2019, to June 20th, 2021. The IEMS call data are coupled with data on COVID-19 infection rates, as well as the respective vaccination rates over the same period of time.
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Thanks for the input.
Well while some brush off covid as a simple flu, those that end up at the IC or have long covid might like think to different and also claim it to be dangerous.
Seems to be high on very young children, but again no numbers been shown yet about people older then 40 (like me :p) does that increase it again with age?
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This is just statistical study. And it showed only increase in that particular age and sex group. On the other hand people who did that study pointed out that older people and women could simply report ca/aca less often due to sociological reasons. So can't answer that question. It's just statistics - not actual research about what could cause that effect.
Well while some brush off covid as a simple flu, those that end up at the IC or have long covid might like think to different and also claim it to be dangerous.
My first c-19 infection was basically running nose. Second (and so far last one) was like worst and the longest flu ever. So not really dangerous. On the other hand my uncle and 2 people that I knew died. They were all fat though. Still 3 people are not really good amount of people to draw any conclusions. Anyway - I would say that it's really contagious and posses real danger to at leats some people.
My problem with c-19 vaccine is its cost/effectiveness ratio.
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Already got my 4th shot...the one that is specifically designed to better prevent against omicron. Little tired the night I got it, otherwise I've had no issues.
BTW, the majority of issues with blot clots/heart problems were with the J&J shot. The MRNA-based ones (Pfizer and Moderna) have an extremely low rate of heart-related side effects, so it's important to know which one you're getting.
Also, I understand people's feedback about "these weren't tested enough," but honestly these vaccines have been tested as much if not more than anything else we've historically produced. We have going on two years' worth of data on the original set of vaccines after release, and of course nearly 9-11 months (depending upon which study we're referencing) of lab and focused test data from before that. This was (of course) used to extrapolate data and the knowledge applied to generate the new vaccine that better protects against omicron.
There are a couple of factors here that affect our ability to produce vaccines in a shorter timeline now. First of all, it's important to remember that we've been researching corona viruses for over 20 years, as well as experimenting with MRNA-based vaccines for nearly as long. So it's not like this was all just cooked up out of the blue. But when there is an emergency scenario (and a pandemic certainly qualifies), then pharmaceutical companies tend to pause almost all other research and redirect all resources to solving the critical problem at hand. Think of it the same way as how scientists finally figured out nuclear power during WWII.
The second factor is processing power combined with available data. A lot of people are quick to point out how long it took to generate vaccines that were invented 50-60 (heck, even 25-30) years ago. But the thing is, at that time, computing power was incredibly limited, so much of the math work was done manually, as well as test iterations (which all had to be done on live subjects) -- and the time between iterations was understandably long. Now, we have -- literally -- trillions of times more computing power available, can do macro-level testing to rule out thousands (or even millions) of scenarios/formulas that are unlikely to work (based upon mathematical models and virtualized tests), and then focus live-testing on just those combinations with a reasonably high potential for success.
The result is actually that these vaccines are more well-tested than nearly anything else previously produced. They have more data and math behind them, as well as the requisite number of live studies needed to get them passed. It's important to understand this and to understand the factors that allow for the scientific community to move more quickly now. We're at a point where technology is able to close a lot of time gaps that were previously unavoidable.
That doesn't mean that there won't be edge cases or potential side effects. There's no way to account for every single human's unique chemistry or genetic makeup. But this has been true of every vaccine and medication produced in the past as well. This is no different. The vaccines are designed to be safe for the vast majority of people, but like any other medication, there are some people that will not respond well.
Someday, we'll be able to pre-scan people for specific chemical/genetic factors that can cause complications with medications before they're administered. But until that time, no matter the medication, there will always be a small risk factor. In this case, we're hearing about more cases, not because there's a high percentage of issues, but because we literally have millions and millions of people taking the medication. In a pool that large, of course you're going to find more cases (and, of course the news outlets are going to sensationalize the story every time it happens because that gets views/clicks). But if you run analytics on the published data, you'll see that, statistically speaking, the rate of serious adverse side effects is incredibly small. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of one in several hundred thousand. It's less than the chance that you'll get in a serious car accident on any given day.
Hopefully that perspective helps. I think it's important to remember that this is a great big math problem, and often I think that society is collectively missing how that affects the way we should view the results.
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Thanks for your input.
And Astra Zenica giving blood clots (and one user above mentioning a stroke hours later).
You can praise Pfizer/Moderna, but isn't doubtful to say the least then, people were given those other shots (and maybe still are)?
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I already explained to you it's about experiences making a person, you made it sound like a playful thing, for anecdote junkies, but i not experienced a covid related death near me, i did experience the people around me getting atleast things that may or may not have been vaccin related, if i had 3 people that died of covid that were close to me, i think for sure that would changed my mind yet again.
I already said and still stand by it, getting covid or getting a vaccin both are two sides of a bad coin, and you can befall very unlucky in either of them both that could end up dying, there is no "winnable" or "good" option eitherway in it.
Thank you though.
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But most vaccines are just 1, not every 4-6 months till they don't even know how long (and i really think that's also a breakpoint for many people not knowing when it will end) to not get any more boosters.
You think i am seeking answers, but there are no questions. I just posted an "anecdote", and yes i hear from my sister that knows someone working in a hospital all the covid patients they are getting are indeed unvaccinated.
I think the difference what's not being made is the (2) vaccins versus the boosters, if it still provides any protection or not without boosters, for myself or for another i got no clue, and i don't care anymore, i am just personally done.
What each and every other person does is up to them, they just need to inform themselves, and the poll seems very divided, so i am not alone.
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That's annual, but a booster you should take every 4-6 months before it worn off.
And define accepted, yes people taking them, but how many that should take it, don't? I am guessing 50-50% as with covid.
I as a diabetic am in that risk group to get one, i never get the flu, yet one time i took the shot i got it, not to mention i don't like the long waiting lines, i know my mother doesn't take it.
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You are attempting to mention facts when on the first page of this thread he admits to believing "magic" (psychics) is real.
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So you are gonna judge because someone believes in something you don't and It automatically makes me "stupid" or something?
I have no personal issue with you but, like many humans on this planet, the fact remains that you can not discern fantasy from reality. I would not use the word "stupid. to describe that. Either "ignorant" or "deceived" would be more accurate. Fortunately there is more knowledge available to all than ever before for people. So, you can readily find out that fake bullshit scammers like "psychics" are not, and have never been real and having a positive "opinion" of something that is fake is irrelevant.
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I would place them in the same category, but whatever.
There are bullshit psychic scammers, but that does say squat, zero, zilch about the ones that are true, pure and good.
Like saying there are website scammers too, doesn't mean all the websites selling their merchandise are bad.
People gonna scam no matter the business, that you claim it as a fake, irrelevant is your very dangerous opinion to voice out, not respecting someone else that has a different view on it, and even sorta insulting them over it.
As i said i don't need a psychic on it self to know there is more, i got my own things, and i firmly believe in my friend that has such abilities, to have a line directly to someone deceased yes that i cannot do.
Are you like this to all those that believe in a god too?
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Obviously. The majority of people on this planet, yourself included, do not have the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality.
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That's a totally fair point. I'm in the US, and Astra Zenica is really uncommon here, but I know that it has been really popular in most of Europe, and even Asia & Africa. The J&J was predominately here in the US, and it's been effectively phased out at this point. It worked, but the efficacy was not as high as the MRNA-based vaccines, and it also had inferior longevity of protection...and of course the aforementioned clotting issues. IMO, its main role was in getting some people to get vaccinated that didn't trust the MRNA-based science (which is why I point out that it's not new science...it's just science that we finally got working when the world focused during an emergency scenario). FWIW, my Dad was one of those people. And, he had some unfun symptoms from that vaccine (not clotting issues, but other symptoms typical of taking any vaccine...fatigue, headache, muscle aches, etc.) that went on for a while. After experiencing that and once he saw the stats on that and the other vaccines, he opted for Moderna when he got his booster. He had almost no issues with that dose.
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Yeah i felt a little soreness in my arms from the pfizers, nothing else. I am also worried "with the whole heart issue stories" how my heart is with already having cardiomyopathy, but only an echo or mri can really show those results if something changed, and you won't get it based on just fear. Not to mention we got a 12 month waiting list because of the whole corona..
And yes that itself also is leading to people dying or getting untreated diseases.
But getting the vaccin itself was not as bad as when you get an anti flu shot and still get..the flu. :p
There are people that die from sudden heart issues now immediately go pointing oh covid, i am not like that, because even before that it already happened, but i think many won't even know if they got heart issues, and i think it would be wise to make it a standard for everyone to get an ECG done, but with the long waiting lists they got other issues right now.
Who knows how many not know they have had covid and not felt anything but still got long term internal side effects?
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That's a good point there..."long Covid" is a real thing now. Tens of thousands of diagnosed cases at this point. It's all the more reason to get vaccinated and reduce your risks of getting it. Too many scary cases of long-term heart and lung issues after having had Covid.
And I guess that's the way I look at it...the risk of long-term issues from getting the vaccine are hundreds of times less than the risk of long-term issues from getting Covid. So, I'm hedging my bets based upon the statistics. 😎👍
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I will not trust any drug that has not been tested. I mean, we see these giant laundry lists of side effects (often including death) for drugs that have been approved, so if people decide to use those drugs then they do so with full knowledge of possible side effects. With something that has not been tested you just do not know, you have no ability to weigh benefit vs. risk.
And that isn't just some "antivax conspiracy" talking, it doesn't matter what a drug does, if it has not been properly tested I will not take it. I had the chance to join a clinical trial for a new drug designed to treat a condition I have and I didn't even though I would have been paid quite generously to participate.
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They were neither properly tested nor approved. They were given emergency use authorization, and that was done to bypass the usual 5+ years of drug trials and testing that any medication has to go through to be approved for use. The clinical trials they were given were rushed, not even lasting a year, and even before those trials were finished they were already in use. It wasn't until late 2021 that any of the vaccines were actually approved, and even that was rushed by any medical standard.
Side effects are still being discovered and will continue to be discovered over the next several years. And that is what is supposed to be found through proper testing, and is information people need to know in order to make an informed decision.
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Also, the whole testing process is broken as it is. Testing is done as blind so receivers don't know if they got it or not.
Now, those who did not got actual thing got it later so that cohort is gone. And then there was selection bias in testing with those wanting untested vaccine rushing in for it... Whole thing is essentially broken.
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In case you don't see it yourself: you are indeed spouting anti-vax talking points. There are actually valid criticisms that have been stated by experts but the time aspect (5+ years of trials) has not been at the top of concerns. You clearly have not gone to the source yourself. However, more importantly, at this time there are almost 5 billion people fully vaccinated, and you are still there being "skeptical."
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One of your "facts" is the claim that the vaccines have not been properly tested. That is, in fact, not a fact. That is your belief based on who knows what. Let me guess, next you will start to argue about what exactly is "properly tested", etc.
All the while ignoring the actual reality of Covid-19, and the positive impact the vaccines have had.
Let me also repeat: At this time there are almost 5 billion people fully vaccinated, and you are still there being "skeptical."
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If the covid vaccines had been properly tested they would not have needed emergency use authorization, which, again, was done to bypass the normal testing and approval process. And yes, there is a strict process that all drugs must go through to be approved and that takes years. Go ahead, look up the development and approval process and see for yourself. You have not shown how any of the facts I have stated are wrong, you just keep repeating your own opinion that they are somehow invalid because you believe differently, and instead of backing up your opinion you restort to "NO U!".
Speaking of opinion you'll notice I've not once said vaccines are bad, or that nobody should get vaccinated. You do you. If you want to then go for it, if you don't want to then don't. End of story.
It is a fact that the covid vaccines do not stop the spread as was initially claimed, you can still be infected by someone who is fully vaccinated. It is a fact that the covid vaccines do not stop serious illness as is still claimed, you can still be hospitalized from covid even if you are fully vaccinated. It is a fact that the covid vaccines do not prevent death as has been claimed all along, you can still die from covid if you are fully vaccinated. It is a fact that there are serious side effects to the vaccines themselves despite the claim that they are perfectly safe, there are many that have been documented and more are being discovered as time goes by because the vaccines were not properly tested before being put to use. Yes, the covid vaccines can reduce the seriousness of symptoms and make you less likely to die, but they do not prevent either like we have been told. Data shows that 95%+ of people who get covid will not die from it. It is estimated that 50%+ are asymptomatic and have no serious or long lasting complications, and that is including the people who are considered vulnerable with underlying conditions. But those numbers are most likely higher because there is no way of knowing whether someone is asymptomatic or just doesn't have covid unless they are tested, and most people have no reason to be tested if they aren't sick so we have no idea how many cases go unreported simply because people do not know they are infected.
But, let's define "fully vaccinated". That definition changes every time we're told to get another shot, and not everyone gets the next one so they are no longer "fully vaccinated". How many of those 5 billion got the initial doses back when 2 shots of pfizer/moderna or 1 of J&J were considered "fully vaccinated" but stopped there? What about the people who got the initial doses, then one more, but stopped there? What about the people who got the initial vaccine, then the next, then a booster but stopped there? What about the people who got those +1 more booster but stopped there? None of them are "fully vaccinated" because we're now being told that we need another booster. Saying "5 billion people are fully vaccinated" is probably not very accurate at all, and we have no way of knowing for sure.
Let's see your facts.
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When I mentioned "actually valid criticisms" and "concerns" I was hinting at the process of Emergency Use Authorization (with all the parties/people involved). Why don't you go ahead and look up what the process was like. From that inquiry you should also learn how the vaccine development went through the Trial phases in an accelerated timeline (for obvious reasons). I guess it's worth mentioning that some sources aimed at the general public present the latter in such a "clean" format that it may even seem dubious.
While I do appreciate individuals freedoms in most things, I must stress that such must be in line with individuals responsibilities. A lot of people who bring up the issue of "one's choice" never seem to consider the other. In a pandemic your choices do affect other people, and IMO we as part of societies should do what we can to help protect the vulnerable of us.
Regarding all those claimed claims you mention, don't get me wrong I'm not trying to rewrite history, I just personally was not "hit" by any of those apart from the news of breakthrough infections. This may be because I generally haven't and don't follow the news, instead I trust in the network of experts that I collect for any subject matter. Anyways, in a pandemic the percentages have tremendous consequences, since it is expected that most everyone will get infected at some point or another, and who knows how many times with possibly worse effects. It's just very cynical and morbid to not do what we can do to try and diminish the numbers. Of course vaccines are only part of the solution, and again if they were sold to people as a "miracle cure" I can't say - I never had such a belief.
I do appreciate your latest comments, they have a different tone compared to your initial comment. Don't have time for more, I'm busy during the weekend.
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I got three shots.
Two to immunize and a booster.
Not gonna get another one since I never contracted the china virus.
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Had the vax and 3 boosters, 2 of the russian, 1 Astrazeneca and last one was Pfizer. Same of my close family, none of us had side effects, not even the expected ones like tiredness, which we did find kinda odd, but no complaining from me.
Lost my dad to covid, he was by far the healthiest in my family, saw him sick maybe 4 times in all my 32 years, covid took him in 4 weeks, 3 months later the first vaccine doses were available, if only he could have holed for 3 more months maybe he would still be here.
Personally i base my beliefs in the scientific method is not perfect but it by far the best we have and has given us our modern comfortable life, and well, rumors, stories and "it makes sense" statements are as far from it as you can get.
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"Personally i base my beliefs in the scientific method is not perfect but it by far the best we have and has given us our modern comfortable life, and well, rumors, stories and "it makes sense" statements are as far from it as you can get." - You worded it better than I ever could've. Thank you.
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I got Pfizer the first 2 times. Bit of tiredness the next day and a sore arm. I did get a bit of a weird side effect from the Moderna Booster (3rd vaccine) though. My left ear (the side I got the vaccine) was having random moments of deafness, or feeling like it had pressure build up in my ear. Went away after a few days. If I get a second booster, I'll be asking for it not to be Moderna though. lol.
I totally agree with you. We lost two grandaunts. Both in their 80s. One was very healthy, and the other was in a nursing home. Had the vaccine been around a little sooner, at least one of them might be still with us.
I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad.
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People seem to be forgetting that the earlier versions of covid (the disease) had a significant impact on the smallest bloodvessel veins.
So that meant that if you are an unvaccinated elderly, a sports person or ... regular person and you got covid, you had a really high chance of developping side issues.
Those problems were enhanced with the elderly since they usually had underlying health issues.
Those problems were visible with sports persons because they lost progress/capacity (eg. lungcapacity)
Just getting covid increases your risk at developping heart and vascular diseases.
Skip to two years later:
I really think that if we all got that first disease strain (instead of omikron, or whatever it is at right now) then most of us would have developped SERIOUS health issues.
And side effects always happen with vaccines, even with regular medication.
As a non-US citizen I do trust my EU government when it comes to medication regulation.
If I were a US citizen I would have more trouble believing the news (looking at you, Opiod prescription/ for profit healthcare model)
Had 4 pfizer shots so far, got covid maybe three months ago (6m after last shot) and was sick for maybe one-two days.
Each vaccine put me a day under the blankets as well, but I really think that I would have been a lot sicker if I did not get vaccinated.
I get my vaccines for tetanos, other preventable diseases as well because even tho big pharma is out there, I think the good outweighs the bad.
Could get run over by a truck tomorrow or develop cancer for all I know since life is a lottery... but vaccines have, in the past proven their worth.
With all the testing going on today I really believe they will weed out the bad or spot bad batches if those are out there.
TL;DR be happy you got vaccinated and/or survived the first strains and that covid of today is a weaker (yet more viral) strain
The covid of okt 2022 is significantly less dangerous than covid 2019
As a EU citizen in a not-for-profit healthcare system, I believe in the vaccines/science
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I gotta admit, I was gonna say that you just for the first time realized the fragility of humanity and are creating meaning where there isn't any to answer something uncontrollable, which is common for conspiracies, no matter whether it's true or false. I think you're just kinda unaware of how common strokes are. It's like being baffled that people are getting heart disease.
Once my mom got cancer, I basically had my first real experience with how common serious disease is. 40% of people have or will get cancer in their lifetimes. When you suddenly roll the dice and hear that 25 people you're tangentially aware of through mutuals have cancer, that will make you likely look for answers. The average person knows around 600 people, so 25 people getting cancer in a small timespan, while unlikely statistically, isn't even that crazy. But because we don't deal with such stuff on a daily basis, we just will assume it's abnormal or unexpected. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think a combination of the innate need to make sense of outstanding events and a general unawareness of the situation to begin with is causing you to question commonalities that stand out. Every 3 and a half minutes someone dies of a stroke after all. And 25% of the population will have a stroke, so all you heard was basically people being open with their situation. There's an inevitable number of people who haven't and won't tell you about their cancer and strokes.
But then I saw the worrying comments from you like: "Even the Pfizer CEO himself claims Pfizer was never tested to stop the spreading of covid." where you yourself are basically just admitting your own ignorance as if it's a crazy reveal. We knew that these vaccines are to reduce severity, but because science isn't easy to read and consume, people will just hear "Not as severe" and they equate it to "Well, if it's not as severe, a heavy spread is pretty severe to me, so I guess spread will be reduced" and unexperienced journos also just fuelled the fire by speculating here and there.
And comments like: "Never once i read or heard anywhere like, well pfizer gives you:
20% on bloodclots
50% heartfailure
30% winning the lottery." which are just the most common anti-vax memes out there based on the fact that they never read the simple, easy to digest texts that have been published by literally ever single official healthcare provider for each country in their native languages and for each varying age groups.
I know you're saying you're not decided, but if nearly everything you do in this thread comes to either saying that you're undecided or defending why you'd think it was the vaccine in the first place, then maybe there's a mental spiral you might accidentally be falling in. I mean we've all done something like that before. When you start defending and entrenching your position into that position, you'll just subconsciously start agreeing with what you're saying.
I dunno, I've always liked you, so I hope you won't fall into the anti-vax memehole. I won't be arguing or anything after this, but I just thought I'd take the time to write since it's you and I hope that I can help ya at least in some way, even if it's a small amount.
But if something stays unclear from what I'm saying or if something sounds very weird, feel free to ask. But I'll try my best to not fall into a confrontation here. Love ya, hope things seem clearer in the future.
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Not to mention the two-three years of covid have made "normal checkups" or regular healthcare in hospitals a thing of the past.
When people would/could have had a health check up in the past, now they would only go when they were in critical condition.
symptom > checkup at hospital > prevention/recovery became symptom > worsening symptoms at home > critical condition
A lot of those strokes could have been prevented if they had access to healthcare, when now a lot of the infrastructure was on lockdown.
So yeah, there is going to be an increase of strokes, ... (insert whatever healthproblem here) because people delayed preventive visits to a doctor or hospital.
Hell, I work at a hospital in the university part and there are waiting lines for pretty much all regular healthcare since they need to catch up 2/3 years of delayed consultations.
Don't be a fool and start attributing those increases to "getting vaccinated" when it is the delayed or cancelled checkups you need to be looking at.
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I uhm, well. ehr..
No, but seriously i think i been clear as day that i am not undecided, and that i already made my choice in OP that for me i am personally done with getting boosters, already way before the housekeeper stroke story for that fact.
I should get the flu shot too really but i also decided to skip those, last one actually gave me the flu.
If i would been anti vax, i wouldn't have gotten two, i am only saying inform yourself (and with the days we live in, again it's hard to know what's fake news and what's real). If you, my mom, my lover, my cat (in random order) wants to take a vaccin, kudos to you/them, i am not stopping anyone, i don't want a seperate bloodbank etc etc. Dude i would be the last person in the world to enforce something on anyone, i already think the world is in a gripe too much where opinions are being forced on eachother.
I must say yes the every 3 1/2 minute someone dying of a stroke is new to me and seems like very much, so yes i was very unaware.
Hope you can respect and see there is no ill will.
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More FUD and anecdotes that are false. You may certainly have gotten the flu. A flu shot won't prevent that if it's a different strain than you were immunized for. You did not, and will never, get the flu FROM the vaccination. It's literally impossible. There is no contagious virus inside the injection.
One of the common myths that leads people to avoid the flu shot is that they think the shot will give them the flu. But that is simply not true. The virus in the vaccine is not active, and an inactive virus cannot transmit disease.
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See below. I'm pro-vaxx but in early 2021 Harvard's people said
Marc Lipsitch and Rebecca Kahn, both of whom are epidemiologists at the Harvard School of Public Health, in a preprint study estimated from the same data that "one dose of vaccine reduces the potential for transmission by at least 61%, possibly considerably more."
The media (at least CBS) around me touted it at the time as "the jabs will stop the spread of covid"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden-if-vaccinated-wont-get-covid/
Biden on CNN in July of 2021:
This is a simple, basic proposition. If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you are not going to die....You’re not going to — you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.
I'm not contradicting you, just adding my $0.02 on why some people thought they had reason to believe the jabs might stop the spread.
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Look, I'm not anti-vax and I'm not irrational. I'm also not susceptible to conspiracy theories and blown out of proportions statements. I've also had my share of shots over the time but I refused to get the covid vaccine. It has been implemented on fast forward without being properly tested on humans. Seriously, Pfizer tested the vaccine on 8 mice then released in globally as being safe, while still taking the legal precautions of discarding any liability for any possible side effects.
One has to be rational and judge the risks over benefits. I don't blame people putting their faith into those that supposedly did their best to fix the issue but let's be clear from the start this was a huge business that made plenty of people filthy rich over the regular people's misery and that's unpardonable.
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"troll", "clown", "8-mice-man"
By all means, do with your own body whatever pleases you and makes you feel safe but don't be rude and call me names if I'm not adhering to your beliefs.
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Your anger is unjustified.
Go ahead and live in your ideal world and stop telling me what to do or believe.
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Sadly, more and more people do not read the ingredients anymore on what they consume, the warning labels on the medication they take, the interactions between what appear to be harmless and viable solutions to their problems and do not weigh the risks over benefits.
When the first thing the producers of what was supposed to be a global cure was to demand from the recipients to exempt them from any liability concerning any side effects, while openly claiming it was safe to use, this was a huge red flag.
People are free to judge for themselves and take any action deemed appropriate for their own good. Some will be skeptical and wait for proper validation while others jump head first and believe in good faith what they are being told. Unfortunately some clever and cold-blooded people are taking advantage of people's misery and making huge profits with no legal liability. The worst is the very same people that were sadly exploited and taken advantage of, are very adamant on enforcing their beliefs on those that chose to have more data on hand and be sure of the viability and safeness of said cure.
I want to be aware of the food ingredients, their origin, any medication's side effects and their interaction between themselves and all the blacklists in the world won't make me accept something enforced through social stigma without being completely sure that's the best course of action.
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Assessing medical risks/benefits is something for medical professionals to do, not some "people". Do you only eat food you yourself have produced? Do you only live in a house you yourself have built?
Guess you've never heard of National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (1986) or such, if you think "no liability" is newsworthy.
Are you also trying to imply the vaccines don't actually do anything?
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Now you're getting ridiculous and you're wasting my time. Feel free to argue with yourself if that makes you feel good.
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Several people of my extended family work in medical and chemical fields. When first shots got introduced these people said that its fine to get them. I am an engineer, hence my specialty is not viruses or medicine. So I trust people who are experts in the field not some random people on the internet. Of course I was worried about first ones as well, but if I have had covid, I've gone over it without a problem.
Although I think I might stay clear of boosters now. As far as we can see taking away restrictions have not spiked the numbers. It has been steady since war started and I think its fine. Did the restrictions and vaccinations help keep it steady as well? Who knows. IMO it was a very special and once in a lifetime situation where no one knew what to do.. So I find criticisms of governments a bit misplaced here. I of course agree some of the restrictions where baseless but I find doomsday screechers who brayed that everyone vaccinated will die within a year a lot more annoying.
Sorry to hear about your loss Lugum. also unfortunate that so many similar cases come up in such a short term.... who knows if it is from vaccinations or no
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Everyone around me is not taking the (next) booster or is still ponderering about it, it be curious (for any country yet so far) to get the numbers of the amount that have taken a booster versus the people that still get sick, i am not seeing those numbers in the media.
Like the media used to announce each day well there are x people that got corona, and x people in the hospital, now? Nothing.
We can only really hope it doesn't spike too much in the next few months, and it will stay low, and that we learn from it, whether vaccins did cause strokes, heart failure for people etc or not.
Thank you.
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In Latvia we actually have media covering it even now daily. Not specifically vaccinated against not vaccinated, but since that whole deal was essentially scrapped I don't think there is enough data to pull anything together.
Yesterday we have had 807 positive cases, 3 people have died.
in general 6026 people have died in total, 942k have been positive.
positive cases out of all tested is around 20%. Last night the number of hospitalized people dropped from 400 to 375.
Out of these 160 are moderately ill, 2 are critical
I didn't pay much attention previously, but the number of positive cases varies, but lately has been falling. some days its nearing 1.1k
As from my side - I think restrictions and vaccinations initially did help hospitals to balance out treatments. While definitely unpopular decision those who had covid usually attest that its nothing pleasant. While I agree that testing and creation of vaccine was a bit rushed, there are still reasons - firstly corona is not a new virus, it was in development previously already. And developing a vaccine is long and expensive process - companies who invest in it are playing to get back money afterwards. With covid hitting us so rapidly and governments investing in vaccine its just logical they could manage to gather people and recourses together much faster
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Yeah but you can't make the test phase go faster (even though some compare it to previous based vaccins) sometimes in the human body things take a while to develop, a cancer lump, kidney stones, in your body it doesn't happen overnight either.
I agree, the governments also didn't really had a choice, i am still standing by that receiving covid (long term) or on the IC, would be a very bad thing too, if we were prevented vaccins they would have gotten complaints too.
I was shocked suddenly we could be allowed big events again (Musical festivals, F1 formula race) i thought we would get a mass of infections but it stayed out, sort of. Yet when i heard masafor with octoberfest that people getting covid increased if i am right?
Normally in the last 2 years the numbers would also been much higher then they are now, the whole thing also acts a bit erratic.
Now i am not by far a historian, nor very into history, but didn't things like the plague and the spanish flu just came, killed loads of people and then just disappeared again, instead of laying around, evolving etc, unless someone can correct me on that.
I was just watching on the news about bird flu, kinda comparable, that it also is staying for 1 whole year already, but also the way we treat it in that we kill 100000 healthy birds over a few that got a disease, for that bit of risk of not spreading it further.
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I am neither anti- --nor pro-for-everyone-- covid jab. I'm glad my grandparents got theirs. I'm certainly not anti-vaxx in general.
Anecdotally, I got my 2 jabs, but the 2nd one gave me significant pain in the region of my heart that lasted for about 21 or 22 days. I also had a egg-sized lump in my left armpit that was swollen (about 3-4 cm out from normal) and painful for 14 days and made it uncomfortable to fully lower my left arm for another week. This happened in 0.02% of reported cases. And now some --even some respectable sources--are stating that the risk for cardiac arrest goes up--perhaps significantly--in my age group if you get the shot. Every time my mom jot a jab her health significantly and immediately declined for months. She didn't have edema until about 24 hrs after getting her booster. She still has it 10 months later--despite treatment. Within hours of the 2nd jab she got nerve pain in her feet than continues to this day.. She had swelling in her face, redness in her hand and feet. The redness in her face is gone, but her feet have turned purple and the doctors don't know why and can't treat it. The purple has spread up her ankles. I know or know of several other people who had serious side effects from the jabs. On the other hand, my dad had a bad headache that night and zero other known side effects.
As I am low-risk anyway and have had severe side effects, I do not plan to get a booster.
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Looking back I wish I had. But I was scared of going in public. I was doubly scared of doctors offices because of all the sick people there. I didn't want to waste their time in case it was nothing. And I don't think there was any treatment anyway. I read that they gave NSAIDs for the myocarditis so I just took ibuprofen at every meal.
Should I have gone to the doctor? Absolutely. Was I your typical pigheaded male when it comes to going to the doctor? Maybe. ;)
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I got Bell's palsy a couple of months after my first shot (thankfully the steroids I was prescribed got rid of it, but it was scary for a while because I couldn't close my left eye fully or eat properly). I found out much later there may be a link between Bell's and the vaccine so that would explain the random affliction if true!
I'm immunosupressed so I will always take a booster though. I'm getting my 5th shot sometime today.
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It crept up very slowly over a few days so I wasn't too worried about a stroke. I first noticed when I was eating something and the left part of my tongue felt funny and I couldn't taste properly there. Then later when brushing my teeth I noticed my mouth wasn't quite co-operating when spitting out water. My bf thought I was imagining things at first because you couldn't see a difference in my face yet but a couple of days later it was obvious and dr google pointed to Bell's. Apparently you have a better chance of not being stuck with it if it's treated quickly so I was off to the real doc asap!
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Thanks, she has to recuperate, she (and myself) thought it would go a lot quicker, she even hoped 2 weeks but most likely offcourse it's gonna be a bit longer. She could have gotten the stroke from a previous recent eye surgery (anesthesia) atleast so she claims (i am not a doctor) but she wanted to get her teeth pulled under anesthesia, naturally she now finds that risky. Time will tell.
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2 weeks since today. But she was stuck at home for about 9 months waiting on the eye surgery, she couldn't go far with her bike (just enough to do groceries) she did a lot of volunteer stuff, so she was even more excited thinking after that she could go out again (also after corona), and then this happens.
I got to give her meds, do groceries, cook etc. But she feels helpless so sometimes instead of a thank you i am the person that it's being taken out on.
But i am moving out next year and by that time i hope she can literally stand on her own feet again and just do the things she been missing for a year, and i get some rest in my body.
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Oof that's gotta sting, doing all you can to look after her and getting hostility in return :( People are not quite themselves when suffering, I hope she soon feels better and appreciates your help!
2 weeks is still early days, is she seeing a physiotherapist (or any other relevant specialist there may be for stroke recovery)?
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Thanks, well my mom and i weren't always exactly close sort to say, but that's okay, let's just say i gotten used to it by now. :)
Yes she is, took over a week after she had the stroke before she even got one, now she is getting it, 2 or 3 times a week. She should have gone to some center really but she opted not too, because she didn't felt the need to be there for the few exercizes she has to do, and she missed the cats.
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I get you, not everyone gets along with their parents and not all parents are as loving as we hope. My mum wasn't always the nicest person - especially after a drink, she was like Jekyll and Hyde. Many complex feelings towards her. It's kind and noble of you to care for your mother the way you do, despite your relationship.
I'm glad she changed her mind and is getting help, hopefully this will boost her progress and you get to rest soon!
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Yeah you can pick your friends, not your family. Sorry to hear about your mom. Hope things got better for you eventually?
My dad used to be (verbally) aggresive after drinking sometimes (not much) but more towards my mom then the kids, but i can relate a bit (my room was above the living room, so i had a front row seat hearing it when it was one of those nights).
Thank you!
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I took the two-dose set last year, didn't get a single side effect (not even a sore arm like many had warned). Haven't gotten Covid yet but I expect I will get it at some point down the road, but even so I haven't considered taking a booster and I doubt I will.
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But was it ever told it stops transmission?
Everyone already knew we take it to lessen symptoms and that transmission is not affected..... Transmission was limited by having restrictions in place. So for me it seems a bit weird to bring this up today.. considering it wasn't believed it stops transmission.
I mean sure - probe pfizer for test results etc ..... but this IMO is stupid. I have a feeling separate things are being mixed up here. The idea was to get vaccinated so you have lessened symptoms and you wouldn't need to be hospitalized, so in case risk groups need to be brought to the hospital, they are not clogged by unvaccinated. absolutely makes sense saying we are vaccinating for the safety of everyone when you actually look at it within context.... this just seems like smear journalism
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https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/FVqpnGU
Biden said on national TV that if you got jabbed you wouldn't get covid
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Biden is senile old fool :D He has said and will continue to say different bullshit without any basing.
At least in my country everyone who had half a brain already understood why we have the vaccine and why we have the restrictions. It was pretty clear to everyone vaccine didn't lower chance of catching it. And I can't recall any big media or politicians really claiming that's the reason for taking the vaccine. I mean as I said -I was worried about the vaccine as well of course, but remember quit clearly that since day one that the reason was to lower symptoms. And that Biden quote looks like an afterthought really rather then fact :D Thats just me analyzing of course, but he goes on saying logical staff and as an afterthought just blurts out the quote people are now taking out of context a bit.
Of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been mentioned, I mean yeah, sure fact in hand - Biden mentioned it. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't some official stance or reason. Just a politician being politician. I mean it was also told by people that vaccinated will die within a year... well, I'm still here :)
But my comment was more targeted in the context of the idiotic video that was posted in previously deleted comment. That was literal smear journalism based on old wife tales not facts.
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Ah, ok.
Fair enough. The news media--at least CBS national radio news--played the soundtrack of the end of Biden's statement "if you get jabbed you won't catch covid" every hour on the hour for several days as I recall it.
Which in retrospect was foolish of them, but seemed like a huge relief to many (including myself) at the time.
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lol. what the hell even is that twitter account :D
Seriously - for the most part sounds like sick rambling.
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It's bad idea to discuss vaccination theme ibn steamgifts discussion. Too many fanatics on both side.
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Well i tihnk it's been pretty "clean" so far, but yeah unfortunately these days people are very fanatic, especially poltical you are easily cast aside as left or right (with it's bad names), as if there isn't even a middle.
On the other hand, i feel like we can hardly discuss anything anymore (without people being "fanatic") and then a forum stays quite empty.
I already thought yesterday if i should close it or not, maybe i should.
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That's good point. As for me, I got 3 vaccines already (biontech) and wait for 4-th. Same for my mother. No problems so far. My decision was based on articles in science magazines and some bloggers I can trust only.
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Not sure if i would trust bloggers (with no medical backgrounds) but science magazines can be okay.
I meant bloggers, that are specialists in medical sience
Will you keep on getting them even a 7th or 8th?
Yes. As I understood it's like flue vaccine now.
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First of all i like to think myself as not a conspiracy thinker, i thought many of the "anti vax" stories were just fake, or overblown, like how athletes even died of heart issues even before corona.
Last year i lost my dad because he died of a shortness of breath (he had heart problems) but it always bugged my mind, if it had anything to do with the boosters, because there are also stories going around it can produce heart problems, even with youngsters, and it came so sudden.
And the boosters could have side effects and you could just been an unlucky person to just have had one of those.
Now today, our housekeeper came and she told me she had 8 clients that suddenly got a stroke/TIA, including my own mother, which i now personally believe can't just be a coincidence anymore.
And by all means, feel free to think it's just a coincidence, that's it's not correlated, to each their own (respect eachothers opinions), feel free to share your experiences if you want from your surroundings or find you got a good quality piece to read either pro or anti.
I wanted to share this, and not to advocate not taking boosters, everyone should make that decision for themselves, lets keep the thread a bit clean.
I hope atleast make some people have a good thought and inform themselves very well, when thinking about a potential booster, personally i had 2 vaccins (and now with a bit of regret even) but i am done with them.
And yes i know of american tv commercials saying this and that medicine can give seizures, strokes, or even death, and people still take them too (seemingly) but atleast you been warned then, unlike with the vaccin (and a large group did it on their trust on the pharmaceutical companies/ government and giving protection against others/close ones).
What always struck me as odd is how noone complains about getting vaccinated as a kid against measles, chicken pox etc, yet somehow there been so much adversery against the covid vaccin from the beginning.
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